Firstly please forgive cross posting - am unsure which group would be best
placed to help....

During the heavy thunderstorms in August, a friend of mine lost the use of
her telephone and modem. Computer repairer says modem was knocked out my
lightening and replaced it. Now she has received her telephone bill showing
a £50 charge which BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone line
was due to her having a computer using the same line.

This sounds like complete rubbish to me and she has asked me to pen her a
letter refuting this, but I would of course prefer to know that I'm not
talking utter rubbish before I do so...any help/advice would be welcome.

L

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:09:07 GMT, "L" wrote:

Firstly please forgive cross posting - am unsure which group would be best
placed to help....

During the heavy thunderstorms in August, a friend of mine lost the use of
her telephone and modem. Computer repairer says modem was knocked out my
lightening and replaced it. Now she has received her telephone bill showing
a £50 charge which BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone line
was due to her having a computer using the same line.

This sounds like complete rubbish to me and she has asked me to pen her a
letter refuting this, but I would of course prefer to know that I'm not
talking utter rubbish before I do so...any help/advice would be welcome.

L


With the information you have given, I would say that BT are trying it
on.

Assuming that your friend has bought a properly approved modem of
reputable brand, then there are required standards of design and
construction for modems, mainly to protect the phone line from faults
that might develop in the modem.

It is difficult in any case for a fault in a PC if it's an internal
modem or a power supply fault if it's an external one to put any
voltage on the phone line likely to damage line equipment.

There may be some weasel words in their user contract that allows them
to make a standard charge. However, that doesn't mean that it
can't be refuted.

How did they know that there was a modem on the line anyway?
Did she have it set to answer the phone, and they called it?

One option could be to talk to Oftel, but they do have the reputation
of being a toothless tiger.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I would try uk.telecom

Martin Warby

In article ,
L wrote:
During the heavy thunderstorms in August, a friend of mine lost the use
of her telephone and modem. Computer repairer says modem was knocked
out my lightening and replaced it. Now she has received her telephone
bill showing a £50 charge which BT say is because the damage caused to
her telephone line was due to her having a computer using the same line.

Did BT visit the house and test the modem? Otherwise how could they
possibly know it was the cause of the problem? Plenty other devices are
plugged into the mains and a telephone line these days...

--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
snip

How did they know that there was a modem on the line anyway?
Did she have it set to answer the phone, and they called it?

Last number called before the outage, the owner is hardly going to try
phoning an ISP's 'dial-up' number with their normal phone...

"L" wrote in message
...
Firstly please forgive cross posting - am unsure which group would be best
placed to help....

During the heavy thunderstorms in August, a friend of mine lost the use of
her telephone and modem. Computer repairer says modem was knocked out my
lightening and replaced it. Now she has received her telephone bill
showing
a £50 charge which BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone
line
was due to her having a computer using the same line.

This sounds like complete rubbish to me and she has asked me to pen her a
letter refuting this, but I would of course prefer to know that I'm not
talking utter rubbish before I do so...any help/advice would be welcome.

Sound like rubbish to me too!

I think it is much more likely the surge was the opposite direction to what
BT claim
Usually modems get killed by getting zapped by a strike down the phone line!
If it were me, I would try to charge them the £50 for the damage to the
modem from their line!

Sparks...

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:02:39 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
snip

How did they know that there was a modem on the line anyway?
Did she have it set to answer the phone, and they called it?

Last number called before the outage, the owner is hardly going to try
phoning an ISP's 'dial-up' number with their normal phone...


True, but do you think that they are that bright?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:09:07 GMT, L wrote:

Now she has received her telephone bill showing a =A350 charge which
BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone line was due to
her having a computer using the same line.

Did she report a fault to BT when she lost the phone and modem? Did a
BT engineer come round? If so did the engineer find a fault with *BT
equipment*? ie not her own (not BT rented) phone or modem. If he did
not find any BT fault then that is what the charge is for.

Failing that I'd ask for a written description of exactly what the
charge is for. BT hate writing so she'll really have to push for that.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article ,
"L" writes:
Firstly please forgive cross posting - am unsure which group would be best
placed to help....

During the heavy thunderstorms in August, a friend of mine lost the use of
her telephone and modem. Computer repairer says modem was knocked out my
lightening and replaced it. Now she has received her telephone bill showing
a £50 charge which BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone line
was due to her having a computer using the same line.

This sounds like complete rubbish to me and she has asked me to pen her a
letter refuting this, but I would of course prefer to know that I'm not
talking utter rubbish before I do so...any help/advice would be welcome.

Did she report the faulty modem to BT as a line fault?
If so, BT will charge for investigating it.

If she has done something which destroyed a BT line card
like sticking mains back down the line, the charge would
be a lot more than £50 (and I suspect the line would
remain cut off until BT had satisfied themselves she
wasn't able to do it again).

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article om,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:09:07 GMT, L wrote:

Now she has received her telephone bill showing a £50 charge which
BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone line was due to
her having a computer using the same line.

Did she report a fault to BT when she lost the phone and modem? Did a
BT engineer come round? If so did the engineer find a fault with *BT
equipment*? ie not her own (not BT rented) phone or modem. If he did
not find any BT fault then that is what the charge is for.

Failing that I'd ask for a written description of exactly what the
charge is for. BT hate writing so she'll really have to push for that.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Yes it does sound like a 'no fault found' charge. If the BT technician turns
out & the fault is fixed by disconnecting the fried modem/computer then
there is no fault with the BT apparatus and a no fault fee gets charged.

The way round this for others is to disconnect all your own stuff from the
line before testing with a known good phone. Better still test from the
internal socket of the master socket which you get to by unscrewing the
sub-panel on the front. Only if then faulty then report to BT.
--
fred

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:02:39 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
snip

How did they know that there was a modem on the line anyway?
Did she have it set to answer the phone, and they called it?

Last number called before the outage, the owner is hardly going to try
phoning an ISP's 'dial-up' number with their normal phone...


True, but do you think that they are that bright?


I don't see why not, it could well have been included when the engineer
accessed the line details.

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:25:27 GMT, fred wrote:

Better still test from the internal socket of the master socket
which you get to by unscrewing the sub-panel on the front.

Which is where the BT man will test. If the line works there "no fault
found" that'll be =A3xxx please.

Only if then faulty then report to BT.

The last times I've reported a residentail fault I've had to convince
them I have tried a known good phone ("borrowed from neighbour") and
I've disconnected all extension wiring or equipment and I still got
warnings of the fee for NFF.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"L" wrote in message
...
Firstly please forgive cross posting - am unsure which group would be best
placed to help....

During the heavy thunderstorms in August, a friend of mine lost the use of
her telephone and modem. Computer repairer says modem was knocked out my
lightening and replaced it. Now she has received her telephone bill
showing
a £50 charge which BT say is because the damage caused to her telephone
line
was due to her having a computer using the same line.

This sounds like complete rubbish to me and she has asked me to pen her a
letter refuting this, but I would of course prefer to know that I'm not
talking utter rubbish before I do so...any help/advice would be welcome.

L


I think you need to find out exactly what was said by the engineer who
visited the house - if one did infact visit?

If he came and unplugged the modem and then the phone line worked
immediately then your friend does indeed have to pay for the visit.

It's always a good idea when you have a phone line fault to do most of the
fault finding yourself, i.e. unplug EVERYTHING from EVERY socket and try one
thing at a time checking the line each time

L wrote:
snip

To take this at a right-angle.
Does the green sticker mean that BT warrant that the modem design
is OK, and safe to connect to their lines, or just that it has
passed the tests?

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
L wrote:
snip

To take this at a right-angle.
Does the green sticker mean that BT warrant that the modem design
is OK, and safe to connect to their lines, or just that it has
passed the tests?

I would *expect* it means the latter, the *design* has been checked,
approved and a sample have been tested. How would BT know if there is a
fault in the manufacture or one has developed since ?

On 07 Oct 2004 19:48:23 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

L wrote:
snip

To take this at a right-angle.
Does the green sticker mean that BT warrant that the modem design
is OK, and safe to connect to their lines, or just that it has
passed the tests?

BT don't warrant anything.

After privatisation, and the opening of the market, an organisation
called BABT took over the role of certifying equipment for connection
to telecom networks.

Nowadays there are many such organisations all over the world that
can do it.

Certification, since April 2000, is now via the EU R&TTE Directive.

With this, the manufacturer or importer self certifies that the
equipment conforms with the necessary and applicable standards for
the Directive and applies a CE mark to confirm that.
Reputable manufacturers will have test reports from independent
laboratories or an equivalent method to back that up.

As far as I am aware, the green dot scheme no longer applies because
it would imply that the UK could have different regulations to other
member states.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:26:12 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


With the information you have given, I would say that BT are trying it
on.

I suspect it is the originator who is trying it on, this message has
been multiposted (not cross posted) in uk.legal and uk.telecom. What
has probably happened is that something has taken out the modem
preventing the subscriber from calling out.

The subscriber has reported a fault to BT apparently without doing
any checks themselves and BT have attended finding no fault on their
equipment but faulty subscriber equipment. They have therefore,
quite rightly, charged the fee the subscriber would have been told
beforehand that they could be charged if it was not a BT equipment
fault.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:25:27 GMT, fred wrote:


The last times I've reported a residentail fault I've had to convince
them I have tried a known good phone ("borrowed from neighbour") and
I've disconnected all extension wiring or equipment and I still got
warnings of the fee for NFF.

The last time I reported a fault ditto.

Despite the fault being that regularly the phone would ring, nobody
there, Hang up. Phone rings again, everything okay. Caller says I
tried once and the ringing tone stops so I had to try again. Only
happend with other exchange calls. I suspected a dodgy trunk and told
BT so but they still insisted on the questions.

Mike

Telecomms engineer! (Not working for BT)

Andy Hall wrote:

On 07 Oct 2004 19:48:23 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:
Does the green sticker mean that BT warrant that the modem design
is OK, and safe to connect to their lines, or just that it has
passed the tests?

The green sticker (Or rather the CE mark, as it noe is) Warrants that
the manufacturer thinks the device conforms to the EU standards for
telephones.

If you prove it doesnt they have to take it off the market.

In other words it means almost nothing.

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:00:05 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:26:12 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


With the information you have given, I would say that BT are trying it
on.

I suspect it is the originator who is trying it on, this message has
been multiposted (not cross posted) in uk.legal and uk.telecom. What
has probably happened is that something has taken out the modem
preventing the subscriber from calling out.

The subscriber has reported a fault to BT apparently without doing
any checks themselves and BT have attended finding no fault on their
equipment but faulty subscriber equipment. They have therefore,
quite rightly, charged the fee the subscriber would have been told
beforehand that they could be charged if it was not a BT equipment
fault.


Could be, which is why I said "with the information you have given".


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl