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Riello Oil Burner Questions
Hi,
Is it better to have a one line system or two line system on the typical oil burner (line going to the head and to the tank). I read that a two line system pumps more oil then is needed to fire and the rest is sent back to the tank. I also read that a one line system is better for not rustling up the sludge on the bottom of the oil tank? Are there pros and cons for both? I read that the big guys are going away from two line systems because if the line breaks you could pump a lot of oil into your boiler room. |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:05:20 GMT, "houseslave"
wrote (with possible editing): Hi, Is it better to have a one line system or two line system on the typical oil burner (line going to the head and to the tank). I read that a two line system pumps more oil then is needed to fire and the rest is sent back to the tank. I also read that a one line system is better for not rustling up the sludge on the bottom of the oil tank? Are there pros and cons for both? I read that the big guys are going away from two line systems because if the line breaks you could pump a lot of oil into your boiler room. One consideration: if you live in a very cold climate, the recirculating oil in a two line system will help keep oil in tank from gelling. So far as pumping oil into your room, it might also depend upon the height of the tank relative to the height of the burner; i.e., whether or not a tank would siphon. One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:05:20 GMT, "houseslave"
wrote (with possible editing): Hi, Is it better to have a one line system or two line system on the typical oil burner (line going to the head and to the tank). I read that a two line system pumps more oil then is needed to fire and the rest is sent back to the tank. I also read that a one line system is better for not rustling up the sludge on the bottom of the oil tank? Are there pros and cons for both? I read that the big guys are going away from two line systems because if the line breaks you could pump a lot of oil into your boiler room. One consideration: if you live in a very cold climate, the recirculating oil in a two line system will help keep oil in tank from gelling. So far as pumping oil into your room, it might also depend upon the height of the tank relative to the height of the burner; i.e., whether or not a tank would siphon. One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. How would a single line system heat the oil any better than a two line system? This doesn't make sense to me... Also, I have two oil burners feeding off the same line. We had a problem with one line starving the other. I had check valves put in and that solved the problem. I also read that you can put in a switch that will only allow one burner to fire at a time. On my hot water heater I now have a two line system and on the boiler's burner I have a one line system. I'll let you guys know if I have any problems with both appliances this winter. It's still to mild to tell if my installation is golden. My old Beckett head had a .80 nozzle, was low rpm and ran dirty. The new Riello has a 1gph nozzle and really heats the boiler to temp faster. The tech also performed a smoke test and there was no smoke residue on the paper. I was told that the Reillo will run super clean compared to my 25 year old Beckett head. I hope to see a 20-30% savings. The tech said that my old Utica boiler was built like a tank and is made better then the newer Utica. |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. How would a single line system heat the oil any better than a two line system? This doesn't make sense to me... Also, I have two oil burners feeding off the same line. We had a problem with one line starving the other. I had check valves put in and that solved the problem. I also read that you can put in a switch that will only allow one burner to fire at a time. On my hot water heater I now have a two line system and on the boiler's burner I have a one line system. I'll let you guys know if I have any problems with both appliances this winter. It's still to mild to tell if my installation is golden. My old Beckett head had a .80 nozzle, was low rpm and ran dirty. The new Riello has a 1gph nozzle and really heats the boiler to temp faster. The tech also performed a smoke test and there was no smoke residue on the paper. I was told that the Reillo will run super clean compared to my 25 year old Beckett head. I hope to see a 20-30% savings. The tech said that my old Utica boiler was built like a tank and is made better then the newer Utica. |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:44 GMT, "houseslave"
wrote (with possible editing): One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. How would a single line system heat the oil any better than a two line system? This doesn't make sense to me... Again, I'm no expert, but it appears he's right. A two line system uses a blow-by (for want of a better term). This means the oil is circulating at a constant rate which is considerably more than what is used. Consequently, the oil spends less time in the heated home before returning to the tank. A single line system holds the oil in the feedline until it's used; therefore, it has more time to warm up in the heated home. Also, I have two oil burners feeding off the same line. We had a problem with one line starving the other. I had check valves put in and that solved the problem. I also read that you can put in a switch that will only allow one burner to fire at a time. On my hot water heater I now have a two line system and on the boiler's burner I have a one line system. I'll let you guys know if I have any problems with both appliances this winter. It's still to mild to tell if my installation is golden. My old Beckett head had a .80 nozzle, was low rpm and ran dirty. The new Riello has a 1gph nozzle and really heats the boiler to temp faster. The tech also performed a smoke test and there was no smoke residue on the paper. I was told that the Reillo will run super clean compared to my 25 year old Beckett head. I hope to see a 20-30% savings. The tech said that my old Utica boiler was built like a tank and is made better then the newer Utica. The only possible problem you might have with one line feeding two burners at once (AND I EMPHASIZE THAT I AM NOT A BURNER TECH, so hopefully one will address this) is that both are sucking oil at the same time. It's conceivable that one might not have enough suction to get oil. JUST A GUESS! At my location, another reason for switching to the one line system was that our diesel generator was tied into the same line. The last tech cited the above as yet another reason for switching to single lines. He put the generator on one line and the burner on the other. The generator was setup for two lines, but fortunately nothing comes out of the return line, so we stuck it in a 5 gallon pail and check it occasionally. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:44 GMT, "houseslave"
wrote (with possible editing): One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. How would a single line system heat the oil any better than a two line system? This doesn't make sense to me... Again, I'm no expert, but it appears he's right. A two line system uses a blow-by (for want of a better term). This means the oil is circulating at a constant rate which is considerably more than what is used. Consequently, the oil spends less time in the heated home before returning to the tank. A single line system holds the oil in the feedline until it's used; therefore, it has more time to warm up in the heated home. Also, I have two oil burners feeding off the same line. We had a problem with one line starving the other. I had check valves put in and that solved the problem. I also read that you can put in a switch that will only allow one burner to fire at a time. On my hot water heater I now have a two line system and on the boiler's burner I have a one line system. I'll let you guys know if I have any problems with both appliances this winter. It's still to mild to tell if my installation is golden. My old Beckett head had a .80 nozzle, was low rpm and ran dirty. The new Riello has a 1gph nozzle and really heats the boiler to temp faster. The tech also performed a smoke test and there was no smoke residue on the paper. I was told that the Reillo will run super clean compared to my 25 year old Beckett head. I hope to see a 20-30% savings. The tech said that my old Utica boiler was built like a tank and is made better then the newer Utica. The only possible problem you might have with one line feeding two burners at once (AND I EMPHASIZE THAT I AM NOT A BURNER TECH, so hopefully one will address this) is that both are sucking oil at the same time. It's conceivable that one might not have enough suction to get oil. JUST A GUESS! At my location, another reason for switching to the one line system was that our diesel generator was tied into the same line. The last tech cited the above as yet another reason for switching to single lines. He put the generator on one line and the burner on the other. The generator was setup for two lines, but fortunately nothing comes out of the return line, so we stuck it in a 5 gallon pail and check it occasionally. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
#10
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
Got into this late, so various points addressed in various places below.
"L. M. Rappaport" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:44 GMT, "houseslave" wrote (with possible editing): One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. Depends, and I mean, depends. IF you have 20 feet of indoor line, and 10 feet of outdoor, maybe..and I mean..MAYBE. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. Funny how all the oil burners here work just fine when you have a couple of weeks in the teens... How would a single line system heat the oil any better than a two line system? This doesn't make sense to me... Its all about the time in the line, in a heated space...otherwise, total bunk. Again, I'm no expert, but it appears he's right. A two line system uses a blow-by (for want of a better term). This means the oil is circulating at a constant rate which is considerably more than what is used. Consequently, the oil spends less time in the heated home before returning to the tank. A single line system holds the oil in the feedline until it's used; therefore, it has more time to warm up in the heated home. A two line system is self priming. its a much prefered method for old timers and those that know how to set up a burner system..costs a bit more , as the pump has to be modified a bit, but thats included in the factory setups...you have to change a couple of things that are not ready from the start, but its ok, and you have to use more line. Its much better for the homeowner, as if the unit should ever drain the tank, all you have to do is hit the reset. I have been known to even go so far as to mount the control in a box, near the breakers for added convience if the unit should trip. The homeowner is told to hit it ONE time, and if it trips again, call. Also, I have two oil burners feeding off the same line. We had a problem with one line starving the other. I had check valves put in and that solved the problem. I also read that you can put in a switch that will only allow one burner to fire at a time. On my hot water heater I now have a two line system and on the boiler's burner I have a one line system. I'll let you guys know if I have any problems with both appliances this winter. It's still to mild to tell if my installation is golden. My old Beckett head had a .80 nozzle, was low rpm and ran dirty. The new Riello has a 1gph nozzle and really heats the boiler to temp faster. The tech also performed a smoke test and there was no smoke residue on the paper. I was told that the Reillo will run super clean compared to my 25 year old Beckett head. I hope to see a 20-30% savings. The tech said that my old Utica boiler was built like a tank and is made better then the newer Utica. Actually, if you have two lines that feed off one, all you need is a larger feeder. Oil and gas, water, etc...principles the same. You cant run two large units, with larger nozzles, sucking fuel like no tomorrow, off one 3/8ths line. Its all about volume. The only possible problem you might have with one line feeding two burners at once (AND I EMPHASIZE THAT I AM NOT A BURNER TECH, so hopefully one will address this) is that both are sucking oil at the same time. It's conceivable that one might not have enough suction to get oil. JUST A GUESS! The pump is the suction part. As long as both pumps are running, and primed, you have suction. Its the volume that each is demanding, VS the volume that is there in the main feed line that will create issues. Pressure is built AT the pump..the only pressure on the feed lines is the weight of the fuel in the tank on it. At my location, another reason for switching to the one line system was that our diesel generator was tied into the same line. The last tech cited the above as yet another reason for switching to single lines. He put the generator on one line and the burner on the other. The generator was setup for two lines, but fortunately nothing comes out of the return line, so we stuck it in a 5 gallon pail and check it occasionally. Then its not set up at the pump for two lines, and I suggest that you either remove the second line and cap the pump with the plug that should be there, or get it set up for a dual line and get it ran out to the tank. IF that pump fails, you are going to be vEEEEERy surprised at how fast a 5 gallon pail fills on that small line. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
#11
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
Got into this late, so various points addressed in various places below.
"L. M. Rappaport" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:55:44 GMT, "houseslave" wrote (with possible editing): One of the "experts" that visited our home trying to cure a hard-starting Riello said that he preferred a single line because it gave the oil a better chance to warm up before going to the burner. Depends, and I mean, depends. IF you have 20 feet of indoor line, and 10 feet of outdoor, maybe..and I mean..MAYBE. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. Funny how all the oil burners here work just fine when you have a couple of weeks in the teens... How would a single line system heat the oil any better than a two line system? This doesn't make sense to me... Its all about the time in the line, in a heated space...otherwise, total bunk. Again, I'm no expert, but it appears he's right. A two line system uses a blow-by (for want of a better term). This means the oil is circulating at a constant rate which is considerably more than what is used. Consequently, the oil spends less time in the heated home before returning to the tank. A single line system holds the oil in the feedline until it's used; therefore, it has more time to warm up in the heated home. A two line system is self priming. its a much prefered method for old timers and those that know how to set up a burner system..costs a bit more , as the pump has to be modified a bit, but thats included in the factory setups...you have to change a couple of things that are not ready from the start, but its ok, and you have to use more line. Its much better for the homeowner, as if the unit should ever drain the tank, all you have to do is hit the reset. I have been known to even go so far as to mount the control in a box, near the breakers for added convience if the unit should trip. The homeowner is told to hit it ONE time, and if it trips again, call. Also, I have two oil burners feeding off the same line. We had a problem with one line starving the other. I had check valves put in and that solved the problem. I also read that you can put in a switch that will only allow one burner to fire at a time. On my hot water heater I now have a two line system and on the boiler's burner I have a one line system. I'll let you guys know if I have any problems with both appliances this winter. It's still to mild to tell if my installation is golden. My old Beckett head had a .80 nozzle, was low rpm and ran dirty. The new Riello has a 1gph nozzle and really heats the boiler to temp faster. The tech also performed a smoke test and there was no smoke residue on the paper. I was told that the Reillo will run super clean compared to my 25 year old Beckett head. I hope to see a 20-30% savings. The tech said that my old Utica boiler was built like a tank and is made better then the newer Utica. Actually, if you have two lines that feed off one, all you need is a larger feeder. Oil and gas, water, etc...principles the same. You cant run two large units, with larger nozzles, sucking fuel like no tomorrow, off one 3/8ths line. Its all about volume. The only possible problem you might have with one line feeding two burners at once (AND I EMPHASIZE THAT I AM NOT A BURNER TECH, so hopefully one will address this) is that both are sucking oil at the same time. It's conceivable that one might not have enough suction to get oil. JUST A GUESS! The pump is the suction part. As long as both pumps are running, and primed, you have suction. Its the volume that each is demanding, VS the volume that is there in the main feed line that will create issues. Pressure is built AT the pump..the only pressure on the feed lines is the weight of the fuel in the tank on it. At my location, another reason for switching to the one line system was that our diesel generator was tied into the same line. The last tech cited the above as yet another reason for switching to single lines. He put the generator on one line and the burner on the other. The generator was setup for two lines, but fortunately nothing comes out of the return line, so we stuck it in a 5 gallon pail and check it occasionally. Then its not set up at the pump for two lines, and I suggest that you either remove the second line and cap the pump with the plug that should be there, or get it set up for a dual line and get it ran out to the tank. IF that pump fails, you are going to be vEEEEERy surprised at how fast a 5 gallon pail fills on that small line. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:08:26 -0400, "CBHvac"
wrote (with possible editing): ....snipped most Depends, and I mean, depends. IF you have 20 feet of indoor line, and 10 feet of outdoor, maybe..and I mean..MAYBE. We have about 60' of 2, 1/2" lines to one location, and about 30' of 3/8" lines to another.. The 2000 gal tank is in a concrete bunker buried in a hillside and covered with an insulated roof. The pipes are in trenches about 3 feet deep and sandwiched between 2 layers of 2" polystyrene. The shorter run goes indoors 10' to a hot air furnace, the longer goes indoors maybe 15' runs the boiler and diesel generator. He claimed that the oil had to be over 50 degrees for some reason or another so he switched us from a double to a single line system, but since he was never able to cure the hard start, I have no idea if he was correct. Funny how all the oil burners here work just fine when you have a couple of weeks in the teens... Not here. It started hard regardless of temperature. At my location, another reason for switching to the one line system was that our diesel generator was tied into the same line. The last tech cited the above as yet another reason for switching to single lines. He put the generator on one line and the burner on the other. The generator was setup for two lines, but fortunately nothing comes out of the return line, so we stuck it in a 5 gallon pail and check it occasionally. Then its not set up at the pump for two lines, and I suggest that you either remove the second line and cap the pump with the plug that should be there, or get it set up for a dual line and get it ran out to the tank. IF that pump fails, you are going to be vEEEEERy surprised at how fast a 5 gallon pail fills on that small line. Actually, if the pump fails, nothing will happen as the pump is required to pressurize the injectors on the diesel. The return line is apparently connected to something which resembles a manifold (but isn't) The diesel is a Mitsubishi. Both the Mitsubishi manual and Gillette who coupled it with their generator say to use two lines. Since nothing comes out of one, I asked a diesel mechanic what was going on. He told me that the way this diesel was setup, nothing NORMALLY will come out the return line. However, as the machine ages, we might get some blow by from the injectors into the "manifold" and that was what the 2d line was for. Since the second line is normally empty, it ruled out the way it was setup - the feedline for the boiler was used as the return line for the genset and vice versa. The problem was that the boiler could suck air through the genset return line - you couldn't add a check valve. I thought we could plumb it so that there was a common feed and return to both, but the last burner tech (the guy who actually cured the hard start) said that was unreliable. Why? I have no idea, but it appeared that, according to him, to have both units on one line, we had to run one more line and I didn't want to do that. What we may do is put a 55 gallon drum in the room and let it fill with a check valve. Then we can have both the feed and the return from the generator in that. Naturally, I have monitors watching the floor of the utility room for both oil and water - I don't know anything about boilers, but as a retired EE, I do know a bit about electronics. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
#13
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Riello Oil Burner Questions
Larry
Are the supply lines gravity fed (no lift), If you did not shut off the oil valves at the tank will the oil flow freely at the furnace and generator? What is the GMH of the generator? John Williamson |
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