Due to tree root problems, I've gotten a few estimates for sewer line
replacement from my house to the curb.

I have two questions. 1) if it turns out that my existing sewer line is 6"
clay pipe, is there anything wrong with the contractor inserting 4" PVC pipe
through existing clay pipe for some of the installation rather than removing
the existing clay pipe? The reason for doing this would be to avoid having
to tunnel under a staircase that ascends in a direction perpendicular to
the pipe and which is located above the pipe. By inserting PVC pipe through
existing clay pipe, this could avoid damaging the staircase or causing it to
settle. Is there anything wrong with inserting the 4" PVC pipe through
existing 6" clay pipe in a problem section rather than removing the clay
pipe altogether? None of the clay pipe would be used, since the PVC pipe
would simply be inserted through it to avoid a problem area. Is this
acceptable?

2) if the existing sewer line is made of metal (cast iron?) and there are no
joints in it between the house and the location where it extends beyond the
staircase (11 feet from the house), would there be any problem with the
contractor attaching a PVC pipe to this location (11 feet beyond the house)
rather than starting at the house itself. The contractor seemed confident
that if the existing pipe is made of metal (cast iron?) and is good shape,
and has no joints, that he could simply attach a PVC pipe to it with a solid
connection (I think he said a 4 band stainless steel) and seemed confident
there would be no chance of root intrusion at that connection. Is it true
that with the proper connection of a PVC pipe to a metal pipe that there is
no risk of root intrusion, or should I insist that the PVC pipe's connection
should begin at the house (and take the risk of potential damage to the
steps by having them tunnel under them.) I think the contractor may have
talked about using a 4 band stainless steel connector rather than a rubber
connector. As much as I'd like to save the steps, avoiding root intrusion
is more important than saving the steps. Should I insist that the PVC pipe
begin at the house or would connecting to the existing pipe be as solid in
terms avoiding any potential root intrusion?

Thanks.

Jeff

Subject: sewer line replacement
From: "jeff"
Date: 8/26/2003 10:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Due to tree root problems, I've gotten a few estimates for sewer line
replacement from my house to the curb.

I have two questions. 1) if it turns out that my existing sewer line is 6"
clay pipe, is there anything wrong with the contractor inserting 4" PVC pipe
through existing clay pipe for some of the installation rather than removing
the existing clay pipe? The reason for doing this would be to avoid having
to tunnel under a staircase that ascends in a direction perpendicular to
the pipe and which is located above the pipe. By inserting PVC pipe through
existing clay pipe, this could avoid damaging the staircase or causing it to
settle. Is there anything wrong with inserting the 4" PVC pipe through
existing 6" clay pipe in a problem section rather than removing the clay
pipe altogether? None of the clay pipe would be used, since the PVC pipe
would simply be inserted through it to avoid a problem area. Is this
acceptable?

2) if the existing sewer line is made of metal (cast iron?) and there are no
joints in it between the house and the location where it extends beyond the
staircase (11 feet from the house), would there be any problem with the
contractor attaching a PVC pipe to this location (11 feet beyond the house)
rather than starting at the house itself. The contractor seemed confident
that if the existing pipe is made of metal (cast iron?) and is good shape,
and has no joints, that he could simply attach a PVC pipe to it with a solid
connection (I think he said a 4 band stainless steel) and seemed confident
there would be no chance of root intrusion at that connection. Is it true
that with the proper connection of a PVC pipe to a metal pipe that there is
no risk of root intrusion, or should I insist that the PVC pipe's connection
should begin at the house (and take the risk of potential damage to the
steps by having them tunnel under them.) I think the contractor may have
talked about using a 4 band stainless steel connector rather than a rubber
connector. As much as I'd like to save the steps, avoiding root intrusion
is more important than saving the steps. Should I insist that the PVC pipe
begin at the house or would connecting to the existing pipe be as solid in
terms avoiding any potential root intrusion?

Thanks.

Jeff










the s econd method with PVC is fine. that is how they do it in Philadelphia.
it is perfectly legal here

You might not like this response, but it needs to be said. Anything worth
doing is worth doing right.

Ok, so I take it that your answer is NO to both of the 2 ideas with regard
to the staircase issue. I'd like to know what's wrong with the first idea,
since I'd still have a PVC connection from the house to the curb except
that, in one section, the 4" PVC pipe would be pass through an existing
section 6" clay pipe.

Thanks.

Jeff

What you're wanting to do is called slip-lining. It's a common practice
here in Houston and to be perfectly honest with you - on large piping
projects (municipalities mostly) is extremely cost effective. However, the
piping that is used is a very stiff walled polyethylene - is "hammered" down
the line with sophisticated equipment, and prior to all that, the existing
line is televised using GPS equipment so the damaged sections are excavated
and replaced. I don't know how long or deep your sewer line is, but on a
residence, I would replace the entire line. If nothing else, when removing
the old 6" line using a backhoe, the roots will be disturbed and cleared
away from the new line. In over 30 years of plumbing, I've never seen a
*properly* installed PVC line take on roots.

As far as the size is concerned, you would have to calculate the fixture
units to see if you can reduce to 4". Here in Houston, there are very few
homes (even those with 4 bathrooms, 2 kitchens, wet bars, etc.) that would
require a 6" line. I once had a customer who wanted an 8" sewer line
(typical 2 bath, kitchen, w/d, etc.) I told them I would not install it
because it would more than likely stop up over a 4" line. They thought I
was crazy until I explained to them that with that much "barrel size" of the
pipe, there was a good chance that the liquid would run around the solids
and leave them behind in the pipe. Once they thought about it, it made
sense. Good luck to you.

Jim Mc Namara




"jeff" wrote in message
...
Due to tree root problems, I've gotten a few estimates for sewer line
replacement from my house to the curb.

I have two questions. 1) if it turns out that my existing sewer line is
6"
clay pipe, is there anything wrong with the contractor inserting 4" PVC
pipe
through existing clay pipe for some of the installation rather than
removing
the existing clay pipe? The reason for doing this would be to avoid
having
to tunnel under a staircase that ascends in a direction perpendicular to
the pipe and which is located above the pipe. By inserting PVC pipe
through
existing clay pipe, this could avoid damaging the staircase or causing it
to
settle. Is there anything wrong with inserting the 4" PVC pipe through
existing 6" clay pipe in a problem section rather than removing the clay
pipe altogether? None of the clay pipe would be used, since the PVC
pipe
would simply be inserted through it to avoid a problem area. Is this
acceptable?

2) if the existing sewer line is made of metal (cast iron?) and there are
no
joints in it between the house and the location where it extends beyond
the
staircase (11 feet from the house), would there be any problem with the
contractor attaching a PVC pipe to this location (11 feet beyond the
house)
rather than starting at the house itself. The contractor seemed confident
that if the existing pipe is made of metal (cast iron?) and is good shape,
and has no joints, that he could simply attach a PVC pipe to it with a
solid
connection (I think he said a 4 band stainless steel) and seemed confident
there would be no chance of root intrusion at that connection. Is it true
that with the proper connection of a PVC pipe to a metal pipe that there
is
no risk of root intrusion, or should I insist that the PVC pipe's
connection
should begin at the house (and take the risk of potential damage to the
steps by having them tunnel under them.) I think the contractor may have
talked about using a 4 band stainless steel connector rather than a rubber
connector. As much as I'd like to save the steps, avoiding root
intrusion
is more important than saving the steps. Should I insist that the PVC pipe
begin at the house or would connecting to the existing pipe be as solid in
terms avoiding any potential root intrusion?

Thanks.

Jeff

When installing a new sewer line at my house, the goal is a complete 4"
sch40 PVC mainline connection from the house to the curb, except that, in
one small section, in which a concrete staircase is over the pipe, they're
considering slipping the 4" PVC through through the existing 6" clay pipe
(assuming the current outside line is 6" clay.)

The line within my house is already only 4" line, and 4" PVC is what they
normally install around here for new residential lines as permitted by the
code. If so, then slipping the 4" Sch40 PVC through existing 6" clay pipe
is being considered for the problematic section where the concrete steps are
located. The end result would be a completely-PVC connection from my house
to the curb, except that one section of the PVC pipe would happen to have
the old 6" clay pipe around it.

Would this be considered improper or is this acceptable?

Jeff

"jeff" wrote in message
t...
When installing a new sewer line at my house, the goal is a complete 4"
sch40 PVC mainline connection from the house to the curb, except that, in
one small section, in which a concrete staircase is over the pipe, they're
considering slipping the 4" PVC through through the existing 6" clay pipe
(assuming the current outside line is 6" clay.)

The line within my house is already only 4" line, and 4" PVC is what they
normally install around here for new residential lines as permitted by the
code. If so, then slipping the 4" Sch40 PVC through existing 6" clay pipe
is being considered for the problematic section where the concrete steps are
located. The end result would be a completely-PVC connection from my house
to the curb, except that one section of the PVC pipe would happen to have
the old 6" clay pipe around it.

Would this be considered improper or is this acceptable?

You need to get that answer from the building code people in your area,
because what counts is what they say when they come for the inspection before
covering the pipe. In my area, it's 6 inch pipe to the house no matter what
kind of pipe, and then 4 inch inside.

Tom J

I see nothing wrong in slipping the 4" PVC through the 6" clay pipe as
long as there is continuous fall on the pipe (since you're using it as the
invert.) Hopefully there is nothing wrong with that section of pipe as it
will save you time and money. Avoid any joints in this section (not knowing
how long it is.) Just remember that the clay pipe you're looking at might
very well be 4". The wall thickness of clay pipe is so great, that it may
appear to be 6" - a very common error - even by some pro's in a hurry. For
your sake (and the sake of not removing the concrete steps) I hope it is.
:-)

Don't forget to install a cleanout plug at every 90° turn of direction
and at least every 50'. Most people like to run 75' - 100' for their clean
outs, but I've found that most places that sell cables to the homeowner come
in 50' lengths. You might even consider a two-way cleanout about mid-line.
Just a thought . . .

Jim



"jeff" wrote in message:
When installing a new sewer line at my house, the goal is a complete 4"
sch40 PVC mainline connection from the house to the curb, except that, in
one small section, in which a concrete staircase is over the pipe, they're
considering slipping the 4" PVC through through the existing 6" clay pipe
(assuming the current outside line is 6" clay.)

The line within my house is already only 4" line, and 4" PVC is what they
normally install around here for new residential lines as permitted by the
code. If so, then slipping the 4" Sch40 PVC through existing 6" clay
pipe
is being considered for the problematic section where the concrete steps
are
located. The end result would be a completely-PVC connection from my
house
to the curb, except that one section of the PVC pipe would happen to have
the old 6" clay pipe around it.

Would this be considered improper or is this acceptable?

Jeff

Avoid any joints in this section (not knowing
how long it is.)

Thanks again for the reply. Please clarify what you mean by avoiding any
joints in this section. Do you mean not to do this if the clay pipe has
joint(s) in that section, or do you mean to make sure the section PVC pipe
inserted isn't two separate sections of PVC joined together?

Thanks.

Jeff

No joints in the PVC pipe. If the section is over 20' long - you'll have no
choice since you can purchase the pipe in 20' lengths.


"jeff" wrote in message
t...
Avoid any joints in this section (not knowing
how long it is.)

Thanks again for the reply. Please clarify what you mean by avoiding any
joints in this section. Do you mean not to do this if the clay pipe has
joint(s) in that section, or do you mean to make sure the section PVC pipe
inserted isn't two separate sections of PVC joined together?

Thanks.

Jeff

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Due to tree root problems, I've gotten a few estimates for sewer line
replacement from my house to the curb.

I have two questions. 1) if it turns out that my existing sewer line is
6"
clay pipe, is there anything wrong with the contractor inserting 4" PVC
pipe
through existing clay pipe for some of the installation rather than
removing
the existing clay pipe? The reason for doing this would be to avoid
having
to tunnel under a staircase that ascends in a direction perpendicular to
the pipe and which is located above the pipe. By inserting PVC pipe
through
existing clay pipe, this could avoid damaging the staircase or causing it
to
settle. Is there anything wrong with inserting the 4" PVC pipe through
existing 6" clay pipe in a problem section rather than removing the clay
pipe altogether? None of the clay pipe would be used, since the PVC
pipe
would simply be inserted through it to avoid a problem area. Is this
acceptable?

2) if the existing sewer line is made of metal (cast iron?) and there are
no
joints in it between the house and the location where it extends beyond
the
staircase (11 feet from the house), would there be any problem with the
contractor attaching a PVC pipe to this location (11 feet beyond the
house)
rather than starting at the house itself. The contractor seemed confident
that if the existing pipe is made of metal (cast iron?) and is good shape,
and has no joints, that he could simply attach a PVC pipe to it with a
solid
connection (I think he said a 4 band stainless steel) and seemed confident
there would be no chance of root intrusion at that connection. Is it true
that with the proper connection of a PVC pipe to a metal pipe that there
is
no risk of root intrusion, or should I insist that the PVC pipe's
connection
should begin at the house (and take the risk of potential damage to the
steps by having them tunnel under them.) I think the contractor may have
talked about using a 4 band stainless steel connector rather than a rubber
connector. As much as I'd like to save the steps, avoiding root
intrusion
is more important than saving the steps. Should I insist that the PVC pipe
begin at the house or would connecting to the existing pipe be as solid in
terms avoiding any potential root intrusion?

Thanks.

Jeff


This might not apply to you, but..........

Alot of people have their lines augered out once or twice yearly for $100.
a shot. At $200./year, say at a mere 5% interest, it would have a $4,000.
capitalized value ($4,000. invested at 5% would produce $200./year). At a
higher interest rate, the capitalized value would be lower.

So. if your excavation would cost more than that, you lose.

Everything in homes wears out eventually. Just like with cars. The issue is
when it pays to do the replacement.

And if you have the stomach, you could spend $400. and buy the equipment to
do it yourself..

Are you sure about the 4 inch line (outside of the house) as I used to
inspect main line sewer installations and all the house connections
were 6 inches going to the curb ? It should be easy enough to check
tho....go to the building dept. and / or plumbers for advise in your
area. There may be building code requirements for this.

Personally, unless there is a compelling reason, I'd rather have 6
inch pipe outside the house. Inside homes tho, it's usually 4 inches.




On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:08:07 GMT, "jeff" wrote:

When installing a new sewer line at my house, the goal is a complete 4"
sch40 PVC mainline connection from the house to the curb, except that, in
one small section, in which a concrete staircase is over the pipe, they're
considering slipping the 4" PVC through through the existing 6" clay pipe
(assuming the current outside line is 6" clay.)

The line within my house is already only 4" line, and 4" PVC is what they
normally install around here for new residential lines as permitted by the
code. If so, then slipping the 4" Sch40 PVC through existing 6" clay pipe
is being considered for the problematic section where the concrete steps are
located. The end result would be a completely-PVC connection from my house
to the curb, except that one section of the PVC pipe would happen to have
the old 6" clay pipe around it.

Would this be considered improper or is this acceptable?

Jeff




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I see 6" being used here as well.
that other old clay stuff is usually 5"




wrote in message
...
Are you sure about the 4 inch line (outside of the house) as I used to
inspect main line sewer installations and all the house connections
were 6 inches going to the curb ? It should be easy enough to check
tho....go to the building dept. and / or plumbers for advise in your
area. There may be building code requirements for this.

Personally, unless there is a compelling reason, I'd rather have 6
inch pipe outside the house. Inside homes tho, it's usually 4 inches.




On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:08:07 GMT, "jeff"
wrote:

When installing a new sewer line at my house, the goal is a complete 4"
sch40 PVC mainline connection from the house to the curb, except that, in
one small section, in which a concrete staircase is over the pipe,
they're
considering slipping the 4" PVC through through the existing 6" clay pipe
(assuming the current outside line is 6" clay.)

The line within my house is already only 4" line, and 4" PVC is what they
normally install around here for new residential lines as permitted by
the
code. If so, then slipping the 4" Sch40 PVC through existing 6" clay
pipe
is being considered for the problematic section where the concrete steps
are
located. The end result would be a completely-PVC connection from my
house
to the curb, except that one section of the PVC pipe would happen to have
the old 6" clay pipe around it.

Would this be considered improper or is this acceptable?

Jeff




** remove .invalid from my email address to reply by email **