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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ after
vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level mark
about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is the
level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?


--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ after
vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level mark
about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is the
level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data
you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:47:43 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ after
vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level mark
about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is the
level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data
you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.


The OS Blog
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/newsroom/blog/25-years-since-last-benchmark
suggests that thanks to subsidence and other geological events, the
old benchmarks can't be relied on for really accurate measurements.

The one on the front wall of the house next-door-but-one has the line
about 2cm down from the top surface of the stone it is carved into.

Nick
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 12/06/2021 18:47, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ
after vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level
mark about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is
the level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data
you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.



Fair enough for the optical-surveying sight lines of 1km or so.
For this use with auto-level or laser-level with single-leg survey, over
less than 100m, ie 50m sighting arms , 1cm is possible.
OS benchmarks quoted on "National Grid" series maps to 1cm , Z-axis.
As part of calibration routines my local group of benchmarks , checked
both ways, are still within 2cm of the 1970 levels, over a total
multi-leg span of about 400m. Using this fragment of benchmark as its
the closest, so avoiding mult-leg surveying to the next nearest and the
inherent inaccuracies, hence the query here as to validity of using of a
partial mark.
At least you did not say use d-GPS, nowhere near 1cm is possible there.
The local archaelogists use their "total stations" for on-site surveying
, but for the site reference points they cough up 20 quid a pop to OS
for the details of the nearest old OS benchmark and optically they
survey to that, having been seriously mis-placed by d-GPS for national
placement






--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 12/06/2021 19:16, Nick Odell wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:47:43 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ after
vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level mark
about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is the
level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data
you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.


The OS Blog
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/newsroom/blog/25-years-since-last-benchmark
suggests that thanks to subsidence and other geological events, the
old benchmarks can't be relied on for really accurate measurements.

The one on the front wall of the house next-door-but-one has the line
about 2cm down from the top surface of the stone it is carved into.

Nick


Yes one mark near me is useless as its on what is now a leaning wall.
Another one I knew it was on the maps but had not seen until I was on a
bus and the sun reflected off the mark. Carved ? cut mark into
acid-etched blue granite aggregate concrete of a bridge pillar, so only
some short segments of the 4 lines are sort of visible around the bits
of granite.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm


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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 12/06/2021 19:26, N_Cook wrote:
On 12/06/2021 18:47, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ
after vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level
mark about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is
the level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data

you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.



Fair enough for the optical-surveying sight lines of 1km or so.
For this use with auto-level or laser-level with single-leg survey, over
less than 100m, ie 50m sighting arms , 1cm is possible.
OS benchmarks quoted on "National Grid" series maps to 1cm , Z-axis.
As part of calibration routines my local group of benchmarks , checked
both ways, are still within 2cm of the 1970 levels, over a total
multi-leg span of about 400m. Using this fragment of benchmark as its
the closest, so avoiding mult-leg surveying to the next nearest and the
inherent inaccuracies, hence the query here as to validity of using of a
partial mark.
At least you did not say use d-GPS, nowhere near 1cm is possible there.
The local archaelogists use their "total stations" for on-site surveying
, but for the site reference points they cough up 20 quid a pop to OS
for the details of the nearest old OS benchmark and optically they
survey to that,* having been seriously mis-placed by d-GPS for national
placement


Interestingly, the field next to my house has recently become a building
site on which nearly 150 houses will be built. The developers have been
using devices similar to
https://leica-geosystems.com/en-gb/p...s/leica-gs18-t
to mark out all the plots *and* to determine the levels for the
foundations and all the drains. They claim that they can measure
absolute altitude to an accuracy of a few mm. Seems magic to me because
normal GPS equipment has a tolerance of tens of metres on altitude.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 12/06/2021 22:16, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/06/2021 19:26, N_Cook wrote:
On 12/06/2021 18:47, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ
after vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level
mark about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is
the level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data

you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.



Fair enough for the optical-surveying sight lines of 1km or so.
For this use with auto-level or laser-level with single-leg survey,
over less than 100m, ie 50m sighting arms , 1cm is possible.
OS benchmarks quoted on "National Grid" series maps to 1cm , Z-axis.
As part of calibration routines my local group of benchmarks , checked
both ways, are still within 2cm of the 1970 levels, over a total
multi-leg span of about 400m. Using this fragment of benchmark as its
the closest, so avoiding mult-leg surveying to the next nearest and
the inherent inaccuracies, hence the query here as to validity of
using of a partial mark.
At least you did not say use d-GPS, nowhere near 1cm is possible there.
The local archaelogists use their "total stations" for on-site
surveying , but for the site reference points they cough up 20 quid a
pop to OS for the details of the nearest old OS benchmark and
optically they survey to that, having been seriously mis-placed by
d-GPS for national placement


Interestingly, the field next to my house has recently become a building
site on which nearly 150 houses will be built. The developers have been
using devices similar to
https://leica-geosystems.com/en-gb/p...s/leica-gs18-t
to mark out all the plots *and* to determine the levels for the
foundations and all the drains. They claim that they can measure
absolute altitude to an accuracy of a few mm. Seems magic to me because
normal GPS equipment has a tolerance of tens of metres on altitude.


I would not trust the American military as far as I could see them using
high power binos.
These days d-GPS tends to use a base station connected by cell-phone
network to the surveyors station. The base station is fixed in position
and then your outlier is deemed fixed to the base station receiving the
same satellite signals and timing comparison and adjustment also deemed
fixed for each usage.
Forgetting about the about 50 types of routine corrections to any sort
of GPS reading , from oxygen content and ionisation levels in the upper
air , to relativistic effects of fast space craft, the local effects of
the likes of trees and steelwork gives an incalculable to mess things up
and cm accuracy is impossible, especially in the z sense.
This is how the local archaeologists went wrong, previously using d-GPS,
they had an important site that was not only entirely wrong in the z
sense but was placed x,y sense in someone elses grounds.
Since then they've coughed up 20 quid a time to OS for traditional
optical surveying into the national grid structure.


--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 12/06/2021 18:47, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ
after vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level
mark about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is
the level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data
you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.


They haven't used benchmarks for donkey's years anyway.

Bill
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Default Benchmark technicality (Ordnance Survey ones that is)

On 15/06/2021 01:08, williamwright wrote:
On 12/06/2021 18:47, Roger Mills wrote:
On 12/06/2021 16:09, N_Cook wrote:
Needed for accurate , ie order of 1cm absolute levels determination.
The benchmark of consideration is just one brick remaining in-situ
after vehicle damage to a wall years ago.
Reconstructing the mark from the remaining one 2 parts of the trident
mark, taking a tracing off nearby ones, places the horizontal level
mark about 2 cm above the centre of the replacement stretcher above.
Looking around at other banchmarks in different towns and cities all
have the level cut mark at the exact centre of stretchers.
Anyone know what the criteria was, ie always without exception cut to
the centre of a brick and then surveyed to that point, X,Y and Z?
While at it ,as wwwland is no help. For flush bracket later forms is
the level mark the centre of the shortened upper recess hole , in the
styalised "blocky" form of the old War Dept trident arrow cut marks?



If I have correctly understood what it says at
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/bus...et/legacy-data
you ain't going to get an absolute accuracy of anything like 1cm anyway.


They haven't used benchmarks for donkey's years anyway.

Bill


Ah, over-reliance on hi-tec.
The last couple of days , back to normal now, major port Southampton VTS
(Vessel Traffic Services) had been outputting the bubbler tide-gauge
levels as being 0.3m too high for 2 days (think "Ever Given"). No one
could be bothered looking out a window to a tide pole for mark1 eyeballs
to check if there there was a major problem with the hi-tec tide gauge
output. Then pull the plug on the dangerous hi-tec output, no output is
safer than erroneously high output.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm
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