The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless
you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links
contained in them, are worth reading.

Once out there, there is no way back.

There has been very little publicity. You won't get a letter in the junk
mail, like last time.

The medconfidential site has a list of some 2000 codes, nearly all of
which refer to STDs and related conditions, but there are very many more
codes.

Note that you might need two opt-outs, one being a letter to your GP
(medconfidential has a pro-forma) and an online one for hospital-related
opt-outs. Links are in the thread.

The discussion on 'anonymising' is worth noting.

Message-ID:

Posted by Jeff Layman in UKLM

Quoted in full

=====

For those who thought the care.data fiasco was no more, beware! There is
an even more extreme move to sequester our medical records for "data"
purposes. More information at:

https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/13/nhs_data_grab/

"According to an official announcement on the NHS Digital website
(https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-collections-and-data-sets/data-collections/general-practice-data-for-planning-and-research),

data held in GP medical records will be collected via a new service
called the General Practice Data for Planning and Research data
collection. It will replace the General Practice Extraction Service
(GPES), which has operated for over 10 years."

The "General Practice Data for Planning and Research" (GPDPR) data
collection, eh? No intention to invoke confusion and make it appear that
it's part of GDPR and so all above board?

It's all being done very quietly with the hope that it will take place

=====

--
Spike

On 22/05/2021 09:14, Spike wrote:
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless
you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links
contained in them, are worth reading.


I've never known the BMA miss a chance to criticise anything going
outside the NHS (or anything this government does come to that) and the
article quotes them as engaged and supportive. So I'm unbothered.

I would probably be anyhow given The Register:

a. has no claims the anonymised data can be linked to named individuals

b. cited campaigners and doctors mainly concerned about use of data
outside the NHS. People like "Dr Neil Bhatia, a Hampshire GP and
information governance lead". Lead for the BMA? Royal College of GPs?
Nope. For a single GP practice with a dozen or so doctors





--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 09:14 22 May 2021, Spike said:

The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record
unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the
links contained in them, are worth reading.

Providing personal data for a government data mining excerise is a
serious matter esecially as it potentially breaches privacy but aren't
you the same Spike who completely fabricated quote in uk.politics.misc
and when asked about the misleading quote insisted it was real? How do we
know you're not crying wolf again?

Message-ID:

On 22/05/2021 11:16, Nick Odell wrote:

As Spike has already said, I'd recommend that you read the article in
El Reg and the thread in ULM and then make up your mind. If you are
still cool with the data-grab then that's -erme- cool.

The annoying thing is that it would have been perfectly possible to
provide data for medical research without compromising patient
confidentiality but in order to make it commercially attractive they
want to give away a whole lot more.

The care.data debacle took place under the Con/Lib-Dem coalition
government but it shouldn't be forgotten that the ID card fiasco
belonged to Labour.

Personally, I have no objection to carrying an ID card per se

Why? Where would you carry it if you were wearing swimming trunks? What
if you forgot? What value other than allowing officials to ask for your
"Papiere, bitte"?

--
Max Demian

On 22/05/2021 22:02, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/05/2021 11:16, Nick Odell wrote:

As Spike has already said, I'd recommend that you read the article in
El Reg and the thread in ULM and then make up your mind. If you are
still cool with the data-grab then that's -erme- cool.

The annoying thing is that it would have been perfectly possible to
provide data for medical research without compromising patient
confidentiality but in order to make it commercially attractive they
want to give away a whole lot more.

The care.data debacle took place under the Con/Lib-Dem coalition
government but it shouldn't be forgotten that the ID card fiasco
belonged to Labour.

Personally, I have no objection to carrying an ID card per se

Why? Where would you carry it if you were wearing swimming trunks? What
if you forgot? What value other than allowing officials to ask for your
"Papiere, bitte"?

I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on
record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am
stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have
to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out
to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and
collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things
that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or
similar.

As for medical records, as long as they cannot identify me, I am happy
to contribute my records to further research.

Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it
can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given
person actually is, and you can bet there will be a market for that to sell
you even more crap. I am already being annoyed by disability product spam
even though I do not use a wheelchair, since I'm blind, but it does show
that some dangerous stereotypical assumptions are made by these so called AI
data aggregators.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Spike" wrote in message
...
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless
you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links
contained in them, are worth reading.

Once out there, there is no way back.

There has been very little publicity. You won't get a letter in the junk
mail, like last time.

The medconfidential site has a list of some 2000 codes, nearly all of
which refer to STDs and related conditions, but there are very many more
codes.

Note that you might need two opt-outs, one being a letter to your GP
(medconfidential has a pro-forma) and an online one for hospital-related
opt-outs. Links are in the thread.

The discussion on 'anonymising' is worth noting.

Message-ID:

Posted by Jeff Layman in UKLM

Quoted in full

=====

For those who thought the care.data fiasco was no more, beware! There is
an even more extreme move to sequester our medical records for "data"
purposes. More information at:

https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/13/nhs_data_grab/

"According to an official announcement on the NHS Digital website
(https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-collections-and-data-sets/data-collections/general-practice-data-for-planning-and-research),

data held in GP medical records will be collected via a new service
called the General Practice Data for Planning and Research data
collection. It will replace the General Practice Extraction Service
(GPES), which has operated for over 10 years."

The "General Practice Data for Planning and Research" (GPDPR) data
collection, eh? No intention to invoke confusion and make it appear that
it's part of GDPR and so all above board?

It's all being done very quietly with the hope that it will take place

=====

--
Spike

On 22/05/2021 19:17, Pamela wrote:
On 09:14 22 May 2021, Spike said:

The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record
unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the
links contained in them, are worth reading.

Providing personal data for a government data mining exercise is a
serious matter especially as it potentially breaches privacy

The system pseudo-anonymises your data by removing your name and the
first line of your address.

While that is wonderful, is that what is left is your NHS number, which
identifies you uniquely, and your post code, which can help locate you.

"Hey, look at this! There's someone in this street that's had an
abortion at 15, got genital herpes, been vaccinated against yellow
fever, had a broken engagement, and been divorced but shares the house
with the ex-partner. Not a ball-buster to work out who that is!"

but aren't
you the same Spike who completely fabricated quote in uk.politics.misc
and when asked about the misleading quote insisted it was real? How do we
know you're not crying wolf again?

Message-ID:

You would need to prove the quote was completely fabricated.


--
Spike

On 23/05/2021 07:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it
can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given
person actually is

Look at this short list of non-medical conditions from the very long
list of items to be collected (or grabbed). You could probably work out
who is who in your post code:


Divorced couple sharing house
Marriage
Separation
Divorce
Marital problems
Marital reconciliation
Single parent
Unwanted pregnancy
Illegitimate pregnancy
Imprisonment record
Battered wife €“ history
Battered husband €“ history
Violent spouse
Engaged
Broken engagement
Broken with partner
Legal problem
Criminal record
Boyfriend relationship problem
Girlfriend relationship problem
In prison
On probation
On remand
Extra-marital problems
On conditional probation
Subject to Anti Social Behaviour Order
Imprisonment of family member
History of abuse
Suspected child abuse
Prison medical examination
Complaints about care
Child maltreatment syndrome
Maltreatment syndromes
Place of occurrence of accident or poisoning, prison
Homicide and injury purposely inflicted by other persons


--
Spike

On 23/05/2021 09:33, Spike wrote:
On 23/05/2021 07:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it
can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given
person actually is

Look at this short list of non-medical conditions from the very long
list of items to be collected (or grabbed). You could probably work out
who is who in your post code:


Divorced couple sharing house
Marriage
Separation
Divorce
Marital problems
Marital reconciliation
Single parent
Unwanted pregnancy
Illegitimate pregnancy
Imprisonment record
Battered wife €“ history
Battered husband €“ history
Violent spouse
Engaged
Broken engagement
Broken with partner
Legal problem
Criminal record
Boyfriend relationship problem
Girlfriend relationship problem
In prison
On probation
On remand
Extra-marital problems
On conditional probation
Subject to Anti Social Behaviour Order
Imprisonment of family member
History of abuse
Suspected child abuse
Prison medical examination
Complaints about care
Child maltreatment syndrome
Maltreatment syndromes
Place of occurrence of accident or poisoning, prison
Homicide and injury purposely inflicted by other persons

Which scaremongering source please?

On 23/05/2021 10:54, Richard wrote:
On 23/05/2021 09:33, Spike wrote:
On 23/05/2021 07:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it
can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given
person actually is

Look at this short list of non-medical conditions from the very long
list of items to be collected (or grabbed). You could probably work out
who is who in your post code:

Divorced couple sharing house
Marriage
Separation
Divorce
Marital problems
Marital reconciliation
Single parent
Unwanted pregnancy
Illegitimate pregnancy
Imprisonment record
Battered wife €“ history
Battered husband €“ history
Violent spouse
Engaged
Broken engagement
Broken with partner
Legal problem
Criminal record
Boyfriend relationship problem
Girlfriend relationship problem
In prison
On probation
On remand
Extra-marital problems
On conditional probation
Subject to Anti Social Behaviour Order
Imprisonment of family member
History of abuse
Suspected child abuse
Prison medical examination
Complaints about care
Child maltreatment syndrome
Maltreatment syndromes
Place of occurrence of accident or poisoning, prison
Homicide and injury purposely inflicted by other persons

Which scaremongering source please?

https://medconfidential.org/for-pati...nsitive-codes/

"Sensitive codes to be collected

Below is a list of the sensitive codes relating to information held in
patients GP records that the Government will copy, knowing that they
are sensitive. There are other groups of codes not currently listed,
which include things like abortion codes. The NHS did have an
€˜Information Standard defining such sensitive codes, but the existing
one was out of date, no-one did the work to replace it, and it was
deprecated in March 2021€¦

This list is a (small!) subset of the complete set of codes that will be
extracted from the GP records of every man, woman and child in England
by the €˜GP Data for Planning and Research or €˜GPDPR programme. We
provide a way to check what is in the longer list.

Everyone who has not fully opted out by the time their data is first
extracted for GPDPR €“ uploads of patients data are currently intended
to begin from 1 July 2021 €“ will have their entire GP history extracted,
processed, and disseminated to those given access to any GP records:"

--
Spike

On 22/05/2021 09:14, Spike wrote:
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless
you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links
contained in them, are worth reading.


snip

For those who thought the care.data fiasco was no more, beware! There is
an even more extreme move to sequester our medical records for "data"
purposes. More information at:

https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/13/nhs_data_grab/

"According to an official announcement on the NHS Digital website
(https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-collections-and-data-sets/data-collections/general-practice-data-for-planning-and-research),

snip

It's all being done very quietly with the hope that it will take place

OK. Having rummaged around the net to glean a bit of info, it is very
easy to opt out should one want to.

Some links other than those provided by the OP:

To manage your options
https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/

The counter to "people of concern" views
https://digital.nhs.uk/services/nati...al-media-posts

On Sat, 22 May 2021 22:51:34 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 22/05/2021 22:02, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/05/2021 11:16, Nick Odell wrote:

As Spike has already said, I'd recommend that you read the article in
El Reg and the thread in ULM and then make up your mind. If you are
still cool with the data-grab then that's -erme- cool.

The annoying thing is that it would have been perfectly possible to
provide data for medical research without compromising patient
confidentiality but in order to make it commercially attractive they
want to give away a whole lot more.

The care.data debacle took place under the Con/Lib-Dem coalition
government but it shouldn't be forgotten that the ID card fiasco
belonged to Labour.

Personally, I have no objection to carrying an ID card per se

Why? Where would you carry it if you were wearing swimming trunks? What
if you forgot? What value other than allowing officials to ask for your
"Papiere, bitte"?

I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on
record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am
stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have
to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out
to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and
collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things
that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or
similar.

@Max @Steve I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's lived in a
place where ID cards are the norm and you don't debate whther or not
to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you
think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as
appropriate). You just do it. The only difference that I can see is
that in those countries keeping tabs on the population is overt: we've
been doing it in increasingly covert ways for years. Again, my real
objection would be to an ID card that unlocks the repository of
everything known about you (the abandoned Labour plan) rather than a
form of identification that is valid in all the different places you
make transactions. IE a government portal you have to pass through to
get to your bank vs. a number that the bank will recognise when you go
to them directly.

As for medical records, as long as they cannot identify me, I am happy
to contribute my records to further research.

Well, this is where we came in, isn't it?

Nick

On Sun, 23 May 2021 08:02:32 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it
can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given
person actually is, and you can bet there will be a market for that to sell
you even more crap. I am already being annoyed by disability product spam
even though I do not use a wheelchair, since I'm blind, but it does show
that some dangerous stereotypical assumptions are made by these so called AI
data aggregators.
Brian

I can tell you exactly when I realised the power of metadata: it was
Tuesday 1st May 2001 and I think it was at about eight o'clock in the
evening.

Paul Vickers was presenting a programme on BBC Radio 4 called "What Do
They Know About Us?" As an example, he had picked a person at random
and whilst carefully avoiding naming them, showed examples of how the
little bits of their life appeared all over this exciting new thing,
the World Wide Web. I'm not going to repeat exactly what he said
because even without the name I immediately knew that I knew who he
was talking about and the same information would identify them today.
Long story short: I contacted the person, they contacted the Beeb,
Mark Savage (the programme producer) edited that section out of the
programme repeat and AFAICT no actual harm was done. But it remains
that surprisingly little innocuous information from different places
can combine into a very powerful tool.

Nick

In message , Richard
writes
OK. Having rummaged around the net to glean a bit of info, it is very
easy to opt out should one want to.

Some links other than those provided by the OP:

To manage your options
https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/


Thanks.

That was relatively painless.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Nick Odell wrote:
to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you
think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as
appropriate).

I regularly leave our house without *any* of those.

--
Chris Green
·

Adrian wrote:

Richard wrote:

https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/

That was relatively painless.

But I think that only stops that data being slurped from NHS Digital's
central servers, you ought to check how to stop it being slurped from
your GP's servers too.

On Sun, 23 May 2021 18:39:07 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

Nick Odell wrote:
to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you
think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as
appropriate).

I regularly leave our house without *any* of those.

Fairy Nuff. I don't have car keys and never take my phone but if I
forgot to take my house keys I'd have to dig up the garden and try to
remember where I buried the spare set.

Nick

On 23/05/2021 19:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian wrote:

Richard wrote:
https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/

That was relatively painless.

But I think that only stops that data being slurped from NHS Digital's
central servers, you ought to check how to stop it being slurped from
your GP's servers too.


And there is this little bit:
q
Currently national data opt-outs will be considered on a case by case
basis but may not apply during the emergency period due to the public
interest and legal requirements in sharing certain data. For example, in
the case of the Shielded Patients List, the opt-out was not applied due
to the public interest in those patients receiving advice and support -
we thought it was important that at-risk patients are protected.
/q

from he
https://digital.nhs.uk/services/nati...al-media-posts

So it seems that no matter how much one protests, the data will be
shared if deemed necessary.

Steve Walker formulated on Saturday :
I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on record
and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am stopped for
any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to carry. It is
quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my parents to
borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and collect item, without
changing my clothes or picking up cards and things that I would rather not
have in my pocket when crawling under the car or similar.

I never leave my own property, without those things - I feel naked
without my wallet, but why would we have to proove who we are, anymore
than we do now, with driving licence? We don't have to carry it even
when driving - so I doubt they would expect us to always have the ID
with us. The point, for those majority who did have their ID with them
- it makes it easy to confirm who they are and be on their way.

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Steve Walker formulated on Saturday :
I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on
record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am
stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to
carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my
parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and
collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things
that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or
similar.

I never leave my own property, without those things - I feel naked without
my wallet, but why would we have to proove who we are, anymore than we do
now, with driving licence? We don't have to carry it even when driving -
so I doubt they would expect us to always have the ID with us. The point,
for those majority who did have their ID with them - it makes it easy to
confirm who they are and be on their way.

As with a lot of things in life, there is no absolute legal requirement to
have your ID on you at the time you are asked for it, but you shouldn't be
surprised to find that doors are closed to you without ID or you have to
make a special journey to the police station to produce your driving
licence.

I usually carry my wallet (with driving licence) at all times, but as Steve
says, there are times when you are in the middle of a DIY job (or gardening)
and nip out to take something to the tip etc. I carry my wallet, not only so
I've got means to pay for something that I didn't anticipate, but also as ID
in case I'm in an accident. I can be traced through my car, but if I'm not
near my car at the time of the accident then having ID on me helps the
emergency services identify me and phone my wife etc or know that I'm on the
organ donor register (*). I'm so used to my wallet living in the pocket of
whichever trousers I'm wearing that if I removed it, I wouldn't know where
I'd left it. Likewise for car/house keys.


(*) Though at last the law has been changed to assume consent unless
explicitly proved to the contrary. Shame that they still haven't got rid of
the next of kin's right to veto organ donation even if you are on the
register. It is the NoK veto that *really* needs to be removed.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Steve Walker formulated on Saturday :
I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on
record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am
stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have
to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out
to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and
collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things
that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or
similar.

I never leave my own property, without those things - I feel naked
without my wallet, but why would we have to proove who we are, anymore
than we do now, with driving licence? We don't have to carry it even when
driving - so I doubt they would expect us to always have the ID with us.
The point, for those majority who did have their ID with them - it makes
it easy to confirm who they are and be on their way.

As with a lot of things in life, there is no absolute legal requirement to
have your ID on you at the time you are asked for it, but you shouldn't be
surprised to find that doors are closed to you without ID or you have to
make a special journey to the police station to produce your driving
licence.

I usually carry my wallet (with driving licence) at all times,

I only do that when out of the house and it's a legal requirement when
driving here.

but as Steve says, there are times when you are in the middle of a DIY job
(or gardening) and nip out to take something to the tip etc. I carry my
wallet, not only so I've got means to pay for something that I didn't
anticipate, but also as ID in case I'm in an accident.

Me too.

I can be traced through my car,

I don't always have my car.

but if I'm not near my car at the time of the accident

And I am very unlikely to be when out walking for exercise.

then having ID on me helps the emergency services identify me

Yep.

and phone my wife

Don't have one of those.

etc

But lots of those.

or know that I'm on the organ donor register (*).

I'm not.

I'm so used to my wallet living in the pocket of whichever trousers I'm
wearing

I don't when at home.

that if I removed it, I wouldn't know where I'd left it. Likewise for
car/house keys.

I do, they are always in the same place.

On 23/05/2021 18:39, Chris Green wrote:
Nick Odell wrote:

to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you
think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as
appropriate).

I regularly leave our house without *any* of those.

If going somewhere busy (like the Notting Hill Carnival) I would take
house keys, rail ticket and a (small) roll of fivers.

--
Max Demian

On 24/05/2021 14:45, Max Demian wrote:
On 23/05/2021 18:39, Chris Green wrote:
Nick Odell wrote:

to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you
think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as
appropriate).

I regularly leave our house without *any* of those.

If going somewhere busy (like the Notting Hill Carnival) I would take
house keys, rail ticket and a (small) roll of fivers.

with all of those in a sock or in something other than a pocket


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan