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[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining
exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links contained in them, are worth reading. Once out there, there is no way back. There has been very little publicity. You won't get a letter in the junk mail, like last time. The medconfidential site has a list of some 2000 codes, nearly all of which refer to STDs and related conditions, but there are very many more codes. Note that you might need two opt-outs, one being a letter to your GP (medconfidential has a pro-forma) and an online one for hospital-related opt-outs. Links are in the thread. The discussion on 'anonymising' is worth noting. Message-ID: Posted by Jeff Layman in UKLM Quoted in full ===== For those who thought the care.data fiasco was no more, beware! There is an even more extreme move to sequester our medical records for "data" purposes. More information at: https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/13/nhs_data_grab/ "According to an official announcement on the NHS Digital website (https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-collections-and-data-sets/data-collections/general-practice-data-for-planning-and-research), data held in GP medical records will be collected via a new service called the General Practice Data for Planning and Research data collection. It will replace the General Practice Extraction Service (GPES), which has operated for over 10 years." The "General Practice Data for Planning and Research" (GPDPR) data collection, eh? No intention to invoke confusion and make it appear that it's part of GDPR and so all above board? It's all being done very quietly with the hope that it will take place ===== -- Spike |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 22/05/2021 09:14, Spike wrote:
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links contained in them, are worth reading. I've never known the BMA miss a chance to criticise anything going outside the NHS (or anything this government does come to that) and the article quotes them as engaged and supportive. So I'm unbothered. I would probably be anyhow given The Register: a. has no claims the anonymised data can be linked to named individuals b. cited campaigners and doctors mainly concerned about use of data outside the NHS. People like "Dr Neil Bhatia, a Hampshire GP and information governance lead". Lead for the BMA? Royal College of GPs? Nope. For a single GP practice with a dozen or so doctors -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 09:14 22 May 2021, Spike said:
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links contained in them, are worth reading. Providing personal data for a government data mining excerise is a serious matter esecially as it potentially breaches privacy but aren't you the same Spike who completely fabricated quote in uk.politics.misc and when asked about the misleading quote insisted it was real? How do we know you're not crying wolf again? Message-ID: |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 22/05/2021 11:16, Nick Odell wrote:
As Spike has already said, I'd recommend that you read the article in El Reg and the thread in ULM and then make up your mind. If you are still cool with the data-grab then that's -erme- cool. The annoying thing is that it would have been perfectly possible to provide data for medical research without compromising patient confidentiality but in order to make it commercially attractive they want to give away a whole lot more. The care.data debacle took place under the Con/Lib-Dem coalition government but it shouldn't be forgotten that the ID card fiasco belonged to Labour. Personally, I have no objection to carrying an ID card per se Why? Where would you carry it if you were wearing swimming trunks? What if you forgot? What value other than allowing officials to ask for your "Papiere, bitte"? -- Max Demian |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 22/05/2021 22:02, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/05/2021 11:16, Nick Odell wrote: As Spike has already said, I'd recommend that you read the article in El Reg and the thread in ULM and then make up your mind. If you are still cool with the data-grab then that's -erme- cool. The annoying thing is that it would have been perfectly possible to provide data for medical research without compromising patient confidentiality but in order to make it commercially attractive they want to give away a whole lot more. The care.data debacle took place under the Con/Lib-Dem coalition government but it shouldn't be forgotten that the ID card fiasco belonged to Labour. Personally, I have no objection to carrying an ID card per se Why? Where would you carry it if you were wearing swimming trunks? What if you forgot? What value other than allowing officials to ask for your "Papiere, bitte"? I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or similar. As for medical records, as long as they cannot identify me, I am happy to contribute my records to further research. |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 22/05/2021 19:17, Pamela wrote:
On 09:14 22 May 2021, Spike said: The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links contained in them, are worth reading. Providing personal data for a government data mining exercise is a serious matter especially as it potentially breaches privacy The system pseudo-anonymises your data by removing your name and the first line of your address. While that is wonderful, is that what is left is your NHS number, which identifies you uniquely, and your post code, which can help locate you. "Hey, look at this! There's someone in this street that's had an abortion at 15, got genital herpes, been vaccinated against yellow fever, had a broken engagement, and been divorced but shares the house with the ex-partner. Not a ball-buster to work out who that is!" but aren't you the same Spike who completely fabricated quote in uk.politics.misc and when asked about the misleading quote insisted it was real? How do we know you're not crying wolf again? Message-ID: You would need to prove the quote was completely fabricated. -- Spike |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 23/05/2021 07:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given person actually is Look at this short list of non-medical conditions from the very long list of items to be collected (or grabbed). You could probably work out who is who in your post code: Divorced couple sharing house Marriage Separation Divorce Marital problems Marital reconciliation Single parent Unwanted pregnancy Illegitimate pregnancy Imprisonment record Battered wife history Battered husband history Violent spouse Engaged Broken engagement Broken with partner Legal problem Criminal record Boyfriend relationship problem Girlfriend relationship problem In prison On probation On remand Extra-marital problems On conditional probation Subject to Anti Social Behaviour Order Imprisonment of family member History of abuse Suspected child abuse Prison medical examination Complaints about care Child maltreatment syndrome Maltreatment syndromes Place of occurrence of accident or poisoning, prison Homicide and injury purposely inflicted by other persons -- Spike |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 23/05/2021 09:33, Spike wrote:
On 23/05/2021 07:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given person actually is Look at this short list of non-medical conditions from the very long list of items to be collected (or grabbed). You could probably work out who is who in your post code: Divorced couple sharing house Marriage Separation Divorce Marital problems Marital reconciliation Single parent Unwanted pregnancy Illegitimate pregnancy Imprisonment record Battered wife history Battered husband history Violent spouse Engaged Broken engagement Broken with partner Legal problem Criminal record Boyfriend relationship problem Girlfriend relationship problem In prison On probation On remand Extra-marital problems On conditional probation Subject to Anti Social Behaviour Order Imprisonment of family member History of abuse Suspected child abuse Prison medical examination Complaints about care Child maltreatment syndrome Maltreatment syndromes Place of occurrence of accident or poisoning, prison Homicide and injury purposely inflicted by other persons Which scaremongering source please? |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 23/05/2021 10:54, Richard wrote:
On 23/05/2021 09:33, Spike wrote: On 23/05/2021 07:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given person actually is Look at this short list of non-medical conditions from the very long list of items to be collected (or grabbed). You could probably work out who is who in your post code: Divorced couple sharing house Marriage Separation Divorce Marital problems Marital reconciliation Single parent Unwanted pregnancy Illegitimate pregnancy Imprisonment record Battered wife history Battered husband history Violent spouse Engaged Broken engagement Broken with partner Legal problem Criminal record Boyfriend relationship problem Girlfriend relationship problem In prison On probation On remand Extra-marital problems On conditional probation Subject to Anti Social Behaviour Order Imprisonment of family member History of abuse Suspected child abuse Prison medical examination Complaints about care Child maltreatment syndrome Maltreatment syndromes Place of occurrence of accident or poisoning, prison Homicide and injury purposely inflicted by other persons Which scaremongering source please? https://medconfidential.org/for-pati...nsitive-codes/ "Sensitive codes to be collected Below is a list of the sensitive codes relating to information held in patients GP records that the Government will copy, knowing that they are sensitive. There are other groups of codes not currently listed, which include things like abortion codes. The NHS did have an Information Standard defining such sensitive codes, but the existing one was out of date, no-one did the work to replace it, and it was deprecated in March 2021¦ This list is a (small!) subset of the complete set of codes that will be extracted from the GP records of every man, woman and child in England by the GP Data for Planning and Research or GPDPR programme. We provide a way to check what is in the longer list. Everyone who has not fully opted out by the time their data is first extracted for GPDPR uploads of patients data are currently intended to begin from 1 July 2021 will have their entire GP history extracted, processed, and disseminated to those given access to any GP records:" -- Spike |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 22/05/2021 09:14, Spike wrote:
The group might like to be aware of this forthcoming data-mining exercise, whereby your data will be extracted from your GP record unless you opt out by the cut-off date. The entire thread, and the links contained in them, are worth reading. snip For those who thought the care.data fiasco was no more, beware! There is an even more extreme move to sequester our medical records for "data" purposes. More information at: https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/13/nhs_data_grab/ "According to an official announcement on the NHS Digital website (https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/data-collections-and-data-sets/data-collections/general-practice-data-for-planning-and-research), snip It's all being done very quietly with the hope that it will take place OK. Having rummaged around the net to glean a bit of info, it is very easy to opt out should one want to. Some links other than those provided by the OP: To manage your options https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/ The counter to "people of concern" views https://digital.nhs.uk/services/nati...al-media-posts |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On Sat, 22 May 2021 22:51:34 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote: On 22/05/2021 22:02, Max Demian wrote: On 22/05/2021 11:16, Nick Odell wrote: As Spike has already said, I'd recommend that you read the article in El Reg and the thread in ULM and then make up your mind. If you are still cool with the data-grab then that's -erme- cool. The annoying thing is that it would have been perfectly possible to provide data for medical research without compromising patient confidentiality but in order to make it commercially attractive they want to give away a whole lot more. The care.data debacle took place under the Con/Lib-Dem coalition government but it shouldn't be forgotten that the ID card fiasco belonged to Labour. Personally, I have no objection to carrying an ID card per se Why? Where would you carry it if you were wearing swimming trunks? What if you forgot? What value other than allowing officials to ask for your "Papiere, bitte"? I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or similar. @Max @Steve I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's lived in a place where ID cards are the norm and you don't debate whther or not to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as appropriate). You just do it. The only difference that I can see is that in those countries keeping tabs on the population is overt: we've been doing it in increasingly covert ways for years. Again, my real objection would be to an ID card that unlocks the repository of everything known about you (the abandoned Labour plan) rather than a form of identification that is valid in all the different places you make transactions. IE a government portal you have to pass through to get to your bank vs. a number that the bank will recognise when you go to them directly. As for medical records, as long as they cannot identify me, I am happy to contribute my records to further research. Well, this is where we came in, isn't it? Nick |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On Sun, 23 May 2021 08:02:32 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote: Yes one of the problems with annonamising data is that given enough of it it can easily be mined to find out with a pretty good accuracy, who any given person actually is, and you can bet there will be a market for that to sell you even more crap. I am already being annoyed by disability product spam even though I do not use a wheelchair, since I'm blind, but it does show that some dangerous stereotypical assumptions are made by these so called AI data aggregators. Brian I can tell you exactly when I realised the power of metadata: it was Tuesday 1st May 2001 and I think it was at about eight o'clock in the evening. Paul Vickers was presenting a programme on BBC Radio 4 called "What Do They Know About Us?" As an example, he had picked a person at random and whilst carefully avoiding naming them, showed examples of how the little bits of their life appeared all over this exciting new thing, the World Wide Web. I'm not going to repeat exactly what he said because even without the name I immediately knew that I knew who he was talking about and the same information would identify them today. Long story short: I contacted the person, they contacted the Beeb, Mark Savage (the programme producer) edited that section out of the programme repeat and AFAICT no actual harm was done. But it remains that surprisingly little innocuous information from different places can combine into a very powerful tool. Nick |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
In message , Richard
writes OK. Having rummaged around the net to glean a bit of info, it is very easy to opt out should one want to. Some links other than those provided by the OP: To manage your options https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/ Thanks. That was relatively painless. Adrian -- To Reply : replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter, DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness. For a better method of access, please see: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
Nick Odell wrote:
to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as appropriate). I regularly leave our house without *any* of those. -- Chris Green Β· |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
Adrian wrote:
Richard wrote: https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/ That was relatively painless. But I think that only stops that data being slurped from NHS Digital's central servers, you ought to check how to stop it being slurped from your GP's servers too. |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On Sun, 23 May 2021 18:39:07 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
Nick Odell wrote: to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as appropriate). I regularly leave our house without *any* of those. Fairy Nuff. I don't have car keys and never take my phone but if I forgot to take my house keys I'd have to dig up the garden and try to remember where I buried the spare set. Nick |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 23/05/2021 19:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian wrote: Richard wrote: https://your-data-matters.service.nhs.uk/ That was relatively painless. But I think that only stops that data being slurped from NHS Digital's central servers, you ought to check how to stop it being slurped from your GP's servers too. And there is this little bit: q Currently national data opt-outs will be considered on a case by case basis but may not apply during the emergency period due to the public interest and legal requirements in sharing certain data. For example, in the case of the Shielded Patients List, the opt-out was not applied due to the public interest in those patients receiving advice and support - we thought it was important that at-risk patients are protected. /q from he https://digital.nhs.uk/services/nati...al-media-posts So it seems that no matter how much one protests, the data will be shared if deemed necessary. |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
Steve Walker formulated on Saturday :
I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or similar. I never leave my own property, without those things - I feel naked without my wallet, but why would we have to proove who we are, anymore than we do now, with driving licence? We don't have to carry it even when driving - so I doubt they would expect us to always have the ID with us. The point, for those majority who did have their ID with them - it makes it easy to confirm who they are and be on their way. |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
... Steve Walker formulated on Saturday : I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or similar. I never leave my own property, without those things - I feel naked without my wallet, but why would we have to proove who we are, anymore than we do now, with driving licence? We don't have to carry it even when driving - so I doubt they would expect us to always have the ID with us. The point, for those majority who did have their ID with them - it makes it easy to confirm who they are and be on their way. As with a lot of things in life, there is no absolute legal requirement to have your ID on you at the time you are asked for it, but you shouldn't be surprised to find that doors are closed to you without ID or you have to make a special journey to the police station to produce your driving licence. I usually carry my wallet (with driving licence) at all times, but as Steve says, there are times when you are in the middle of a DIY job (or gardening) and nip out to take something to the tip etc. I carry my wallet, not only so I've got means to pay for something that I didn't anticipate, but also as ID in case I'm in an accident. I can be traced through my car, but if I'm not near my car at the time of the accident then having ID on me helps the emergency services identify me and phone my wife etc or know that I'm on the organ donor register (*). I'm so used to my wallet living in the pocket of whichever trousers I'm wearing that if I removed it, I wouldn't know where I'd left it. Likewise for car/house keys. (*) Though at last the law has been changed to assume consent unless explicitly proved to the contrary. Shame that they still haven't got rid of the next of kin's right to veto organ donation even if you are on the register. It is the NoK veto that *really* needs to be removed. |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
"NY" wrote in message ... "Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message ... Steve Walker formulated on Saturday : I am happy for my details (as in passport/driving licence) to be on record and to be available to the police to confirm my identity if I am stopped for any reason, but do not want to have an ID card that I have to carry. It is quite common for me to be doing some DIY then rush out to my parents to borrow something or to the shops to pick up a click and collect item, without changing my clothes or picking up cards and things that I would rather not have in my pocket when crawling under the car or similar. I never leave my own property, without those things - I feel naked without my wallet, but why would we have to proove who we are, anymore than we do now, with driving licence? We don't have to carry it even when driving - so I doubt they would expect us to always have the ID with us. The point, for those majority who did have their ID with them - it makes it easy to confirm who they are and be on their way. As with a lot of things in life, there is no absolute legal requirement to have your ID on you at the time you are asked for it, but you shouldn't be surprised to find that doors are closed to you without ID or you have to make a special journey to the police station to produce your driving licence. I usually carry my wallet (with driving licence) at all times, I only do that when out of the house and it's a legal requirement when driving here. but as Steve says, there are times when you are in the middle of a DIY job (or gardening) and nip out to take something to the tip etc. I carry my wallet, not only so I've got means to pay for something that I didn't anticipate, but also as ID in case I'm in an accident. Me too. I can be traced through my car, I don't always have my car. but if I'm not near my car at the time of the accident And I am very unlikely to be when out walking for exercise. then having ID on me helps the emergency services identify me Yep. and phone my wife Don't have one of those. etc But lots of those. or know that I'm on the organ donor register (*). I'm not. I'm so used to my wallet living in the pocket of whichever trousers I'm wearing I don't when at home. that if I removed it, I wouldn't know where I'd left it. Likewise for car/house keys. I do, they are always in the same place. |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 23/05/2021 18:39, Chris Green wrote:
Nick Odell wrote: to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as appropriate). I regularly leave our house without *any* of those. If going somewhere busy (like the Notting Hill Carnival) I would take house keys, rail ticket and a (small) roll of fivers. -- Max Demian |
[OT] UKLM: Subject: NHS data grab just around the corner
On 24/05/2021 14:45, Max Demian wrote:
On 23/05/2021 18:39, Chris Green wrote: Nick Odell wrote: to take the card with you when you leave the house any more than you think about house keys*/car keys*/money*/phone* (*add to or delete as appropriate). I regularly leave our house without *any* of those. If going somewhere busy (like the Notting Hill Carnival) I would take house keys, rail ticket and a (small) roll of fivers. with all of those in a sock or in something other than a pocket -- "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding". Marshall McLuhan |
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