On 19/05/2021 09:53, NY wrote:

My (diesel) car has a range of about 700 miles on a 60-litre tank.
Diesel has an energy density of about 38 MJ/litre.

The fact that your car can drive 700 miles without a fill-up does not
mean that you can drive it that far without a break.

For me, a practical use case is to be able to drive 1-2 hours between
breaks. I have a petrol car, but if I had an electric car, I'd just plug
it in at each rest break.



Suppose the charging process is 99% efficient - ie only 1% of the
electricity is wasted as heat. That's still a power of 1/100 MW or 10
kW. So the batteries and the charger have got to dissipate waste heat
equivalent to three 3-bar electric fires. Gulp!


But, they only have to do that level of charging for 5 minutes. So,
that's not going to heat the car up appreciably? Perhaps the charging
station will incorporate fans to help dissipate the heat? Current
charging stations don't need that, as they are only charging at a
fraction of the rate.

On 19/05/2021 13:47, GB wrote:
On 19/05/2021 09:53, NY wrote:

My (diesel) car has a range of about 700 miles on a 60-litre tank.
Diesel has an energy density of about 38 MJ/litre.

The fact that your car can drive 700 miles without a fill-up does not
mean that you can drive it that far without a break.

For me, a practical use case is to be able to drive 1-2 hours between
breaks. I have a petrol car, but if I had an electric car, I'd just plug
it in at each rest break.

Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware shop
for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to Dover and
back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not to lose time
off work.

Also, "non-stop" Manchester to the south of France and Manchester to
Nottingham to Stuttgart.

And a number of others.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware shop
for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to Dover and
back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not to lose time
off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were visiting.
Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near everywhere.

--
*CAN AN ATHEIST GET INSURANCE AGAINST ACTS OF GOD?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware shop
for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to Dover and
back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not to lose time
off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were visiting.
Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving 1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

Theo

On 19/05/2021 15:10, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving 1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

That's one reason why I liked the idea of plug-in hybrids. Best of both
worlds.

Sufficient battery to cope with the average journey of 7 miles, and
would have the necessary range for long journeys.

Plus not be as heavy as pure EVs so less carbon particulates from tyre wear.

"Theo" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving
1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

This is the problem with electric cars - one car cannot do all the jobs and
you may need either to own a second (petrol/diesel) car or else rent one -
both of which are all extra cost.

We, the public, are being asked to change the way we live and to accept a
sub-standard product. When EVs are at least as good as petrol/diesel, in
terms of range and refuelling, *then* is the time to phase out
petrol/diesel. But the date of petrol/diesel car withdrawal (ie no longer
sold any more) has already been announced. That may be to spur manufacturers
to get their acts together, though I'm sure they are all working flat out as
it is to find solutions. But if the date comes and we still have EVs with a
maximum range of 200 miles and a recharge time (to restore the full range)
of over an hour (and maybe considerably longer) then it will be a huge step
backwards in the name of "progress".


And will petrol/diesel *rental* cars always be available? Will there come a
time when the cars, bought just before sales are stopped, have worn out.
What then? Will we have no choice but to stop every 200 miles for a
multi-hour break? The problem comes when the place where you take a planned
break is not the same place as the one where you can charge the car.

On 19/05/2021 15:42, NY wrote:
Will we have no choice but to stop every 200 miles
for a multi-hour break?

If the alternative is climate catastrophe, then I'm prepared to stop
occasionally. I'm surprised that anyone would suggest otherwise. Ofc, if
you think the whole climate catastrophe thing is hooey, you'll obviously
resent any lifestyle changes whatsoever.

You are overstating the length of the break, btw. The biggest Tesla
chargers can charge at up to 250 kW. That implies a more or less
complete recharge in under half an hour.



The problem comes when the place where you take
a planned break is not the same place as the one where you can charge
the car.

Surely, if everybody has electric cars, that won't be a problem? At the
moment, there's very little electric car infrastructure, as there are
very few electric cars.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Theo" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a
house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving
1000+ miles and are not as action-packed?

This is the problem with electric cars - one car cannot do all the jobs
and you may need either to own a second (petrol/diesel) car or else rent
one - both of which are all extra cost.

And no advantage at all with an EV, just downsides with having
to plug the damned thing in every time you use it, hopeless on
long trips, ****ed climate control in it, stupid price of it etc etc
etc. The only advantage is a lower fuel cost per mile. **** that.

We, the public, are being asked to change the way we live and to accept a
sub-standard product. When EVs are at least as good as petrol/diesel, in
terms of range and refuelling, *then* is the time to phase out
petrol/diesel.

Not even then because the battery doesn’t last
anything like as long as an ICE engine does.

But the date of petrol/diesel car withdrawal (ie no longer sold any more)
has already been announced.

That wont happen imo. The voters will give
any pollys actually stupid enough to enforce
that the bums rush at the ballot box.

That may be to spur manufacturers to get their acts together,

And **** even more money against the wall that we will be
paying for even if we arent stupid enough to buy an EV.

though I'm sure they are all working flat out as it is to find solutions.

A few arent. And I bet it end up as stupid a fad as
diesels were too. And those really only have one
major downside, the higher maintenance costs

But if the date comes and we still have EVs with a maximum range of 200
miles and a recharge time (to restore the full range) of over an hour (and
maybe considerably longer) then it will be a huge step backwards in the
name of "progress".

Bet the voters wont buy it and will give stupid
pollys the bums rush at the ballot box.

Harder to do that in the EU tho, but its
only a small subset of the world's cars.

And will petrol/diesel *rental* cars always be available?

Hard to say how stupid stupid pollys will be.

Will there come a time when the cars, bought just before sales are
stopped, have worn out.

Unlikely, Cuba managed fine for half a century.

So did I with my previous ICE and I only gave up
on it because I was stupid enough to not fix the
known windscreen leak.

What then?

The stupid pollys will have got the bums rush at the ballot box.

Will we have no choice but to stop every 200 miles for a multi-hour break?

Nope, because the stupid pollys will have got the bums rush.

The problem comes when the place where you take a planned break is not the
same place as the one where you can charge the car.

Yep, I never stop at traveller traps.

On 19/05/2021 15:42, NY wrote:
"Theo" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a
house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving
1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

This is the problem with electric cars - one car cannot do all the jobs
and you may need either to own a second (petrol/diesel) car or else rent
one - both of which are all extra cost.

We, the public, are being asked to change the way we live and to accept
a sub-standard product. When EVs are at least as good as petrol/diesel,
in terms of range and refuelling, *then* is the time to phase out
petrol/diesel. But the date of petrol/diesel car withdrawal (ie no
longer sold any more) has already been announced. That may be to spur
manufacturers to get their acts together, though I'm sure they are all
working flat out as it is to find solutions. But if the date comes and
we still have EVs with a maximum range of 200 miles and a recharge time
(to restore the full range) of over an hour (and maybe considerably
longer) then it will be a huge step backwards in the name of "progress".


And will petrol/diesel *rental* cars always be available? Will there
come a time when the cars, bought just before sales are stopped, have
worn out. What then? Will we have no choice but to stop every 200 miles
for a multi-hour break? The problem comes when the place where you take
a planned break is not the same place as the one where you can charge
the car.

If we *had* to go all electric, the answer is to build railway lines
down the fast lane of motorways,. and have high speed car and truck
transporters run on them...and charge the cars as you go.

But in the end if the population has any sense at all it will reject the
wet dreams of the greens and understand that sometimes the price of
Purity is just too high.


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

In article ,
Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done
the paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time
disconnected and we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as
seen on the day) and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

I'd considered that as a possibility when thinking about buying an electric
car. Ah - I'm 81 and hiring a car if you're over 80 it is, apparently,
very difficult.


Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving 1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

Theo

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles wrote:
I'd considered that as a possibility when thinking about buying an electric
car. Ah - I'm 81 and hiring a car if you're over 80 it is, apparently,
very difficult.

Do you do journeys of 300+ miles without any breaks?

If you don't, an EV is likely to be able to handle it (although perhaps
there are other reasons why it might not suit). I think the people who do
major road trips without stopping for refreshment or toilets might be in the
minority.

Theo

On 19/05/2021 16:04, charles wrote:
In article ,
Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done
the paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time
disconnected and we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as
seen on the day) and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

I'd considered that as a possibility when thinking about buying an electric
car. Ah - I'm 81 and hiring a car if you're over 80 it is, apparently,
very difficult.

Not much help anyway when you find an answerphone message at 5pm saying
that your wife's uncle has died and his funeral is on the far side of
Ireland, at 11am either. Too late to get a flight organised, get the
kids to my parents and and get through airport security that night. The
earliest flight in the morning arriving at Belfast or Dublin too late to
pick up a hire car and get to the funeral. Too late to organise and pick
up a hire car in the UK, book the ferry with the right registration
details and get going. The only choice to drive and use the ferry in our
own car - with no time to charge before leaving, no time to charge
en-route and no time to charge (unless the hotel hosting the meal had
chargers) before heading home again.

And we have had multiple occasions of short notice funerals due a large
extended family (M-I-L one of 8 siblings, F-I-L one of 13).

On 19/05/2021 15:10, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving 1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

But other's have involved setting off with only a couple of hour's
notice for a family funeral - again "non-stop", Manchester, Holyhead,
Dublin Sligo, Church, Graveyard, Cemetery, Meal, Belfast, Stranraer,
Manchester.

The point is that even if you don't do it often, electric cars aren't
capable of it when needed. I don't want two different cars, just one to
fill all the roles I need it for. For me a plug-in hybrid would make the
best sense. 60 miles range would cater for me in day to day driving on
electric only, almost all the time, but with the ability to do longer
journeys, as and when, at zero notice.

On 19/05/2021 18:16, Steve Walker wrote:

The point is that even if you don't do it often, electric cars aren't
capable of it when needed. I don't want two different cars, just one to
fill all the roles I need it for. For me a plug-in hybrid would make the
best sense. 60 miles range would cater for me in day to day driving on
electric only, almost all the time, but with the ability to do longer
journeys, as and when, at zero notice.

One of the manufacturers was looking at a little trailer with a motor +
generator that you could hire for long journeys. Or leave in the garage
until needed, so you weren't lugging around a heavy engine just for a
trip around town. It doesn't seem to have caught on. Maybe, it will.

On Wed, 19 May 2021 18:16:56 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip
I don't want two different cars, just one to
fill all the roles I need it for.

snip

It might not be down to what 'you want' at some point in the future
though?

Just because we can do something now, doesn't mean we should or will
still be able to in the future.

When I first started working at BT my journey to work was (say) 3
miles. Then it became 4 and finally 5 miles and we neither moved house
or were working elsewhere.

No, what happened is they blocked off 'rat runs' and re-designed parts
of my commute route meaning I had to travel further and further to do
the same trip. No matter how much I would have 'wanted' it to stay the
same, it wasn't going to.

Cheers, T i m

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/2021 15:10, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a
house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve nonstop driving
1000+
miles and are not as action-packed?

But other's have involved setting off with only a couple of hour's notice
for a family funeral - again "non-stop", Manchester, Holyhead, Dublin
Sligo, Church, Graveyard, Cemetery, Meal, Belfast, Stranraer, Manchester.

The point is that even if you don't do it often, electric cars aren't
capable of it when needed. I don't want two different cars, just one to
fill all the roles I need it for. For me a plug-in hybrid would make the
best sense. 60 miles range would cater for me in day to day driving on
electric only, almost all the time, but with the ability to do longer
journeys, as and when, at zero notice.

Makes more sense to have the cheaper ICE.
Plug in hybrids dont pay for themselves.

"Theo" wrote in message
...
Steve Walker wrote:
They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

So for the one weekend in your life when you drive to France, buy a house,
spray it with woodworm killer, and drive home again, you rent a petrol or
diesel car.

**** that I want my car to do everything I am likely to do.

Perhaps the other weekends in your life don't involve
nonstop driving 1000+ miles and are not as action-packed?

But a lot more farting around using a rental. I just fill the car
the day before or on the way out. Much less farting around.

"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware shop
for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to Dover and
back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not to lose time
off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were visiting.
Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not?
I'd say it was the perfect place for it


The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not? I'd say it was the perfect place for it

How many vehicles? Where is tehextra enery going to come from?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 19/05/2021 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not? I'd say it was the perfect place for it

How many vehicles? Where is tehextra enery going to come from?

Windmills on the top deck, obviously.

On 19/05/2021 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not? I'd say it was the perfect place for it

How many vehicles? Where is tehextra enery going to come from?

And of course the risks of a fault starting a very difficult to control
battery fire in a confined space.

On 19/05/2021 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not? I'd say it was the perfect place for it

How many vehicles? Where is tehextra enery going to come from?

All of them. From the nuclear reactor powering the ferry, of course. All
included in the price.

And while the ferry is docked, its powering all the charge points in the
car queues.

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop
for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to Dover and
back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not to lose time
off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting.
Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not?

Because its too much farting around plugging all the cars in.

I'd say it was the perfect place for it

More fool you. It isnt.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day) and
again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

On Thu, 20 May 2021 13:25:16 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Xeno to senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID:

On 20/05/2021 04:25, Joey wrote:
Because its too much farting around plugging all the cars in.

as much trouble as for example putting a petrol nozzle in a fuel tank?
or chaining down a lorry on a rogh trip?

#Idiot

I'd say it was the perfect place for it

More fool you. It isnt.

It would be.

cars are going nowhere for an hour, all parked in fixed positions near
to walls and ceilings and so on. Its up to the drivers to plug them in
if they want a charge.


Given that they have an hour to charge, and the ferry is about 1000
cars, the worst case that they all limp in with dead flat batteries
means they will need on 100Kwh batteries, about 100kw apiece. so in
total they will need 100MW of charge power. It more likely to be less
than half that. So 50MW

Obviously you wont get that from a 4000 bhp marine diesel setup, but te
answer is to stick a reactor in them. Rolls Royce submarine reactors are
of that sort of power output - 50Mw ore thereabouts its been estimated
(classified)

I mean if we are going net zero ferries wont have DIESELS will they?

Although for cross channel they might have batteries!!

--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 19/05/2021 15:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop
for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to Dover and
back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not to lose time
off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting.
Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not?
I'd say it was the perfect place for it


The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done
the paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time
disconnected and we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as
seen on the day) and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.



Only takes one difficult-to-extinguish EV lithium battery fire on
a ferry or in La Shuttle and suddenly there will be new restrictions.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not?
I'd say it was the perfect place for it

presumably they'd like some space on-deck for vehicles, rather than just
a ferry full of generators and diesel tanks?

On 21/05/2021 15:44, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why ever not?
I'd say it was the perfect place for it

presumably they'd like some space on-deck for vehicles, rather than just
a ferry full of generators and diesel tanks?



or a very small nuclear reactor



--
€œIdeas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Not been around when petrol was in short supply? I have been.

--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/05/2021 18:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Not been around when petrol was in short supply? I have been.

Not even I can recall the Suez crisis! :-)

In article , Fredxx wrote:
On 19/05/2021 18:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses
to visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo,
a visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a
hardware shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais,
across to Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend,
so as not to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done
the paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time
disconnected and we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as
seen on the day) and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Not been around when petrol was in short supply? I have been.

Not even I can recall the Suez crisis! :-)

I've still got some petrol coupons from which ever crisis came next.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 19/05/2021 18:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Not been around when petrol was in short supply? I have been.

Not even I can recall the Suez crisis! :-)

Much later than that. Early 70s. Can remember queuing for petrol and being
restricted to a few gallons.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 19 May 2021 18:31:28 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Not been around when petrol was in short supply? I have been.

Same here ... and you had to 'eek it out' or queue for hours.

I have had a plug in EV for over 30 years and so I'm very used to
working out where I could get to and know if I could get a charge when
I was there or not (and so how long I would have to stay there for)
and was never caught out (ok, it got close a couple of times).

In the same way I've rarely run out of petrol in my life (even when
touring in Scotland and the wife did on her motorbike, we siphoned
enough from mine to get us to a petrol station).

Even when racing the electric motorbike I designed and built, I always
finished the race (duration) because that was part of good racing
technique and energy management.

If it was likely that I wouldn't have enough money to buy petrol to
get to work, I didn't squander it going for a drive for fun.

But we probably already do stuff to 'fill in time', reading / working
on a train, washing up whilst the dinner is cooking so we should be
able (might have to) to engineer working [1] or shopping, dining,
sleeping whilst the car is charging.


Cheers, T i m

[1] Which is what I did when I fitted a charging point at work. ;-)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why?

Because it makes no sense.

Anything is possible.

But plenty isnt economic, and this is one of those.

At one time, you had to buy petrol from a chemist shop.

Irrelevant to what is economic now.

The house we were "visiting" (to buy) was not ours until we had done the
paperwork, had only a 3kW supply limit, was at the time disconnected and
we only stopped there long enough to look (bought as seen on the day)
and again for an hour to spray woodworm killer.

Charging anywhere on route, would have delayed us considerably.

Not been around when petrol was in short supply? I have been.

Doesn’t happen often enough to matter and you get
the same problem with electricity supply anyway.

On Thu, 20 May 2021 14:13:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 19/05/2021 18:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 19/05/2021 14:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Have you never driven longer journeys "non-stop", with just pauses to
visit the toilet and swap over drivers?

Manchester to Dover, across to Calais, along to just past St. Malo, a
visit to a house, a visit to a "solicitor" to buy it, to a hardware
shop for woodworm spray, to the house, back to Calais, across to
Dover and back to Manchester. Three of us, over a weekend, so as not
to lose time off work.

You drove across the channel? No reason why your vehicle couldn't be
charged during the crossing. Likewise at the house etc you were
visiting. Electricity, unlike diesel or petrol, is available near
everywhere.

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.


And Olive oil for food preparation.

On 20/05/2021 12:11, Andrew wrote:
On 19/05/2021 18:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.


And Olive oil for food preparation.

What was it sold for? To stick in your earhole?

--
Max Demian

On 19/05/2021 18:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

They are never going to provide charging on cross-channel ferries.

Why? Anything is possible. At one time, you had to buy petrol from a
chemist shop.

Sold as a remedy for head lice. (Petrol was a waste product in the
production of kerosene from crude oil.)

--
Max Demian