In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Richard

Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is required,
not squandered on domestic heating.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

A non-professional gas installation voids your household insurance.
There was a spectacular one went bang round here about a decade ago. The
burnt out remains of the house sat unloved for years afterwards.

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution pipes
is going to be interesting (Chinese usage).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:


Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Richard



I see Worcester-Bosch are suggesting they are developing hydrogen ready
boilers. Boilers which can run on natural gas now, but someday, and that
day may never come, they can be called upon to run on hydrogen.

On 18/05/2021 09:45, Martin Brown wrote:

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution pipes
is going to be interesting (Chinese usage).


As stated many times before, coal gas contained a high percentage of
hydrogen.

On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

On 18/05/2021 09:31, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.


It could be banned under building regulations (which already make
fitting a new gas boiler notifiable).

As usual, what effort will be put into enforcement is another matter.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 18/05/2021 09:54, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is
required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On 18/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:54, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted
after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is
required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


But TBF harder to weaponise.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 18/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


I'm not sure about that. I would guess plutonium storage is much, much
cheaper.

However the real point is that it is easier to produce suitable amounts
of plutonium.

On 18/05/2021 10:11, Robin wrote:
On 18/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:54, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted
after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is
required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


But TBF harder to weaponise.


No, MUCH much easier.

A thin walled tank of hydrogen driven into a town centre with a
detonator strapped to the outside... any rag head can do that.

Making a nuclear weapon is a very very skilled exercise in precision
mechanics.

You need to machine the elements to fit exactly without being able to
put them together first, and then design an explosive detonator to slam
them all together at exactly the same time





--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 18/05/2021 10:20, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


I'm not sure about that. I would guess plutonium storage is much, much
cheaper.

However the real point is that it is easier to produce suitable amounts
of plutonium.


No, its easy to make hydrogen. The real point is that its way *cheaper*
to produce plutonium once you have a reactor.


--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

On 18/05/2021 09:45, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

A non-professional gas installation voids your household insurance.
There was a spectacular one went bang round here about a decade ago. The
burnt out remains of the house sat unloved for years afterwards.

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution pipes
is going to be interesting (Chinese usage).

I seem to recall there is an experimental village somewhere in the UK
where they are trialling this.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 10:11, Robin wrote:
On 18/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:54, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted
after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is
required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


But TBF harder to weaponise.


No, MUCH much easier.

A thin walled tank of hydrogen driven into a town centre with a
detonator strapped to the outside... any rag head can do that.

Making a nuclear weapon is a very very skilled exercise in precision
mechanics.

You need to machine the elements to fit exactly without being able to
put them together first, and then design an explosive detonator to slam
them all together at exactly the same time

Not if you just grind it into dust and scatter it or blow it up with
conventional explosives.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a ”spare• boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mindŒ

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

I‘m assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

A non-professional gas installation voids your household insurance.

Mine has been running happily since 1989

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:


Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Richard



I see Worcester-Bosch are suggesting they are developing hydrogen ready
boilers. Boilers which can run on natural gas now, but someday, and that
day may never come, they can be called upon to run on hydrogen.

It was done with coal gas natural gas. Simply a change of burners.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Well it does beg the question why Northern Gas Networks are busy ripping up roads around here putting new pipe work in or lining existing pipes. At best if the government are serious about their 2030 deadline how long after will all gas continue to be used with a boiler lifespan rated at 10yrs. by 2040 there will be few people requiring gas.

Richard

On 18/05/2021 09:40, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Making a nuclear weapon is a very very skilled exercise in precision
mechanics.

You need to machine the elements to fit exactly without being able to
put them together first, and then design an explosive detonator to slam
them all together at exactly the same time

Not if you just grind it into dust and scatter it or blow it up with
conventional explosives.

The Germans had an idea of delivering such material by rocket to New
York in WWII, and later I believe Saddam had a similar idea. However, it
hasn't been followed up. perhaps because it is an inefficient method of
delivery and doubtless modelling suggested it isn't particularly
effective except as a means of causing panic.

--
Spike

On 18/05/2021 09:45, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

A non-professional gas installation voids your household insurance.
There was a spectacular one went bang round here about a decade ago. The
burnt out remains of the house sat unloved for years afterwards.

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution pipes
is going to be interesting (Chinese usage).


Maybe use Ammonia. Easy leak detection.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 18/05/2021 10:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 10:11, Robin wrote:
On 18/05/2021 10:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:54, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted
after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is
required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term
storage for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be
stored.

Not nearly as safely as plutonium


But TBF harder to weaponise.


No, MUCH much easier.

A thin walled tank of hydrogen driven into a town centre with a
detonator strapped to the outside... any rag head can do that.

Indeed. But I don't see how that's going to give much of a blast. As I
am sure you recognise, hydrogen per se cannot explode. That requires a
mixture of hydrogen and an oxydiser. So they'd need to drive into a
relatiovely contained space (e.g. a bus sttaion), vent the hydrogen, and
then ignite it when it has reach the right concentration. Possible but
not easy.


Making a nuclear weapon is a very very skilled exercise in precision
mechanics.

You need to machine the elements to fit exactly without being able to
put them together first, and then design an explosive detonator to slam
them all together at exactly the same time


I know the basics of atom bomb making. But a plutonium RDD avoids all
that. Use it above a major city centre. Then sit back to watch to the
panic over hours & days, the economic impact over months and years, and
the health impact over decades.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

A non-professional gas installation voids your household insurance.

Seriously, how is anyone going to know? The quality of €œprofessional€�
installations is so variable that as long as youre halfway competent no
one will be able to tell the difference, particularly if youre just
swapping a boiler and not relocating it.


There was a spectacular one went bang round here about a decade ago.

Not unknown after professional installations! ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Spike wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:40, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Making a nuclear weapon is a very very skilled exercise in precision
mechanics.

You need to machine the elements to fit exactly without being able to
put them together first, and then design an explosive detonator to slam
them all together at exactly the same time

Not if you just grind it into dust and scatter it or blow it up with
conventional explosives.

The Germans had an idea of delivering such material by rocket to New
York in WWII, and later I believe Saddam had a similar idea. However, it
hasn't been followed up. perhaps because it is an inefficient method of
delivery and doubtless modelling suggested it isn't particularly
effective except as a means of causing panic.


Which is all you need for terrorism€¦

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ wrote:
Seriously, how is anyone going to know? The quality of €œprofessional€�
installations is so variable that as long as youre halfway competent no
one will be able to tell the difference, particularly if youre just
swapping a boiler and not relocating it.

AIUI a boiler replacement is supposed to be registered with GasSafe. If the
age of the boiler doesn't match the age of the most recent registration,
someone might start asking questions...

Theo

On 18/05/2021 12:28, Theo wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
Seriously, how is anyone going to know? The quality of €œprofessional€�
installations is so variable that as long as youre halfway competent no
one will be able to tell the difference, particularly if youre just
swapping a boiler and not relocating it.

AIUI a boiler replacement is supposed to be registered with GasSafe. If the
age of the boiler doesn't match the age of the most recent registration,
someone might start asking questions...

Theo

How do we check that out boiler installer did this?

"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution pipes is
going to be interesting (Chinese usage).

Maybe use Ammonia. Easy leak detection.

Is ammonia flammable? I've heard of it being used as a refrigerant, but not
as a boiler fuel.

On 18/05/2021 09:31, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

Some of us would need to stock-pile heating oil, as well as a spare
boiler :-(

On 18/05/2021 09:54, Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:42, Tim+ wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

Im assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Like theres ever gonna be a domestic hydrogen supply€¦

Seriously, if we *do* go down the route of manufacturing hydrogen Im
pretty sure itll be reserved for uses where rapid refuelling is
required,
not squandered on domestic heating.


Rapid/load balancing can be handled by other means. Long term storage
for winter is the real problem in the UK. Hydrogen can be stored.


There are plans to add hydrogen to the natural gas network to make a blend.

Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:28, Theo wrote:
AIUI a boiler replacement is supposed to be registered with GasSafe. If the
age of the boiler doesn't match the age of the most recent registration,
someone might start asking questions...

How do we check that out boiler installer did this?

Ask GasSafe?

Theo

On 18/05/2021 12:43, NY wrote:
"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution
pipes is going to be interesting (Chinese usage).

Maybe use Ammonia.Â* Easy leak detection.

Is ammonia flammable? I've heard of it being used as a refrigerant, but
not as a boiler fuel.

Oh yes!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Combustion

On 18/05/2021 10:52, charles wrote:
In article ,
Pancho wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:


Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Richard



I see Worcester-Bosch are suggesting they are developing hydrogen ready
boilers. Boilers which can run on natural gas now, but someday, and that
day may never come, they can be called upon to run on hydrogen.

It was done with coal gas natural gas. Simply a change of burners.

It should be easier with boilers that can self-calibrate.

On 18/05/2021 12:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:43, NY wrote:
"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
Boilers that can be converted to using hydrogen are to be exempt.

Persuading hydrogen to stay inside the existing gas distribution
pipes is going to be interesting (Chinese usage).

Maybe use Ammonia.Â* Easy leak detection.

Is ammonia flammable? I've heard of it being used as a refrigerant,
but not as a boiler fuel.

Oh yes!
Â* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Combustion


and...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#As_a_fuel

--
Cheers
Clive

On 18/05/2021 11:11, Spike wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:40, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Making a nuclear weapon is a very very skilled exercise in precision
mechanics.

You need to machine the elements to fit exactly without being able to
put them together first, and then design an explosive detonator to slam
them all together at exactly the same time

Not if you just grind it into dust and scatter it or blow it up with
conventional explosives.


Then its almost completely harmless.


The Germans had an idea of delivering such material by rocket to New
York in WWII, and later I believe Saddam had a similar idea. However, it
hasn't been followed up. perhaps because it is an inefficient method of
delivery and doubtless modelling suggested it isn't particularly
effective except as a means of causing panic.



--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 18/05/2021 11:49, Robin wrote:
Indeed.Â* But I don't see how that's going to give much of a blast.Â* As I
am sure you recognise, hydrogen per se cannot explode.

Oh yes it can.

Or did you think the challenger mission was faked up in a hollywood studio?


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 18/05/2021 11:49, Robin wrote:

I know the basics of atom bomb making.Â* But a plutonium RDD avoids all
that.Â* Use it above a major city centre.Â* Then sit back to watch to the
panic over hours & days, the economic impact over months and years, and
the health impact over decades.

Why would there be ANY?. Plutonium is so un-radioactive that there is
more danger from e.g. inhaling lead dust than plutonium dust., Its very
heavy, so it hits the ground early.

Far worse to have someone e.g steal a cobalt 60 source from a dentist
and leave it in a tube train.

Frankly the only thing to fear from plutonium is fear of plutonium




--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 18/05/2021 13:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 11:49, Robin wrote:
Indeed.Â* But I don't see how that's going to give much of a blast.Â* As
I am sure you recognise, hydrogen per se cannot explode.

Oh yes it can.

Or did you think the challenger mission was faked up in a hollywood studio?



No. I do think it was caused by a *mixture* of hydrogen and oxygen.

Or do you think the yanks lied about it?


" At 73.124 seconds, a circumferential white vapor pattern was observed
blooming from the side of the External Tank bottom dome. This was the
beginning of the structural failure of the hydrogen tank that culminated
in the entire aft dome dropping away. This released massive amounts of
liquid hydrogen from the tank and created a sudden forward thrust of
about 2.8 million pounds, pushing the hydrogen tank upward into the
intertank structure. At about the same time, the rotating right Solid
Rocket Booster impacted the intertank structure and the lower part of
the liquid oxygen tank. These structures failed at 73.137 seconds as
evidenced by the white vapors appearing in the intertank region. Within
milliseconds there was massive, almost explosive, burning of the
hydrogen streaming from the failed tank bottom and the liquid oxygen
breach in the area of the intertank.

At this point in its trajectory, while traveling at a Mach number of
1.92 at an altitude of 46,000 feet, the Challenger was totally enveloped
in the explosive burn. The Challenger's reaction control system ruptured
and a hypergolic burn of its propellants occurred as it exited. the
oxygenhydrogen flames. The reddish brown colors of the hypergolic fuel
burn are visible on the edge of the main fireball. The Orbiter, under
severe aerodynamic loads, broke into several large sections which
emerged from the fireball. Separate sections that can be identified on
film include the main engine/tail section with the engines still
burning, one wing of the Orbiter, and the forward fuselage trailing a
mass of umbilical lines pulled loose from the payload bay.


source: "Report of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle
Challenger Accident," U.S. Government Printing Office : 1986 0 -157-336.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 18/05/2021 09:31, Tim+ wrote:
In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €œspare€� boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mind€¦

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.


What always intrigues me about pieces like that, is how they all gloss
over the fact that the renewables industry in the UK is dependant on gas
for balancing load and intermittent supply.


--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
What always intrigues me about pieces like that, is how they all gloss
over the fact that the renewables industry in the UK is dependant on gas
for balancing load and intermittent supply.

Articles like this gloss over a lot.

And they all present it.

In one sentence per paragraph.


I don't think gas is a showstopper as such. Better to use renewable
electricity for the say 90% of the time you can, and generate electricity
from gas only when needed to bridge intermittency (and no other storage is
available - batteries should handle short term grid stability). Result is a
90% decline in carbon emissions. Power stations are also much easier places
to fit CCS than everyone's boiler flue.

Obviously there's a whole load of economic implications (upgrade the grid;
pay to keep stations idle, not pay them per unit of generation) but it
doesn't seem technically problematic.

Theo

On 18/05/2021 13:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/2021 11:49, Robin wrote:

I know the basics of atom bomb making.Â* But a plutonium RDD avoids all
that.Â* Use it above a major city centre.Â* Then sit back to watch to
the panic over hours & days, the economic impact over months and
years, and the health impact over decades.

Why would there be ANY?. Plutonium is so un-radioactive that there is
more danger from e.g. inhaling lead dust than plutonium dust., Its very
heavy, so it hits the ground early.

Far worse to have someone e.g steal a cobalt 60 source from a dentist
and leave it in a tube train.


Or sell it for scrap, and have it melted down and turned into
new products like metal chairs and table legs, as happened in Brazil

On 18/05/2021 10:51, charles wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/05/2021 09:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:31:34 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

In the light of plans to stop new gas or oil boilers being fitted after
2025 how many folk are considering buying a €�spare€¢ boiler? ;-)

I must admit the thought has crossed my mindÅ’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059.

I€˜m assuming that only professional installs can be banned.

A non-professional gas installation voids your household insurance.

Mine has been running happily since 1989


:-).

Two British GAs engineers were jailed for manslaughter after
one installed a flueless gas fire badly and the other did not
replace the case correctly on a fan-assisted boiler that had a
case that was under a positive pressure, or something like that.