On 6 May 2021 at 23:28:04 BST, "Michael Chare"
wrote:

The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element
was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so
I thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired. I was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a
slightly lower power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water
level. I wonder how well it will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after one to
three years. I suspect people boiling less than the minimum quantity of water
is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect to say so too often! A
useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested at least that often.


--
Roger Hayter

I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make things
repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result - as well as
incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is probably better than a
screw and is more compact.

In article ,
JohnP wrote:



I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make things
repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result - as well as
incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is probably better than a
screw and is more compact.

Quite. No one in the meja seems to realise that making a device which can
be dismantled for repair easily is going to make it more expensive to
make. Perhaps not a problem with a washing machine, but would be for low
cost items like kettles and toasters.

And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

--
*WHY IS THERE AN EXPIRATION DATE ON SOUR CREAM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

In article ,
JohnP wrote:



I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make
things repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result -
as well as incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is
probably better than a screw and is more compact.

Quite. No one in the meja seems to realise that making a device which
can be dismantled for repair easily is going to make it more expensive
to make. Perhaps not a problem with a washing machine, but would be
for low cost items like kettles and toasters.

And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and
if they did were cheap and simple to fix.


And often the fault was a poor connection - which could have been avoided
by minimising them.
..

Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 07/05/2021 :
And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 07/05/2021 :
And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

At one time. my job provided me with a rented set. It started giving noisy
pictures, so I complained. Someone came while I was at work, fiddled with
tuning know sand said "nothing wrong with it". I was debating what to do
next when I happened to deal with a call from the company's head office. At
the end of his call I ssked how I could make a complaint - to which he said
"tell me". Within an hour, I had the branch manager on the phone "You
should have said you were a BBC customer. I've got a new tuner soak
testing on the bench." and it was fited the next day. Every subsequent call
out had the branch senior technician. I suspect they thought that if I
complained seriously, they might loose the BBC Contract.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 07/05/2021 :
And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

And the rental company supplying a social service, then? ;-)

No different from having a service contract on your heating system. Long
term, the supplier always wins. And by a large margin.

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) formulated the question :
They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

And the rental company supplying a social service, then? ;-)

No different from having a service contract on your heating system. Long
term, the supplier always wins. And by a large margin.

Of course the supplier wins, they are never charities - they are a
business and need to make a profit.

Back in the day, many companies were set up as a source to rent TV's
and it was a sensible option to rent one.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) formulated the question :
They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

And the rental company supplying a social service, then? ;-)

No different from having a service contract on your heating system. Long
term, the supplier always wins. And by a large margin.

Of course the supplier wins, they are never charities - they are a
business and need to make a profit.

Back in the day, many companies were set up as a source to rent TV's
and it was a sensible option to rent one.

It was never anymore sensible to rent a TV over anything else. Like say a
car. At the end of the day, you pay for the service they provide.

Other thing was the own brand sets many of the rental companies supplied
were hardly state of the art, even in the day. Famously, the lack of a
black level clamp. And a pretty basic cabinet. Bit like a car maker only
offering a basic model.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) formulated the question :
They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they
often did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

And the rental company supplying a social service, then? ;-)

No different from having a service contract on your heating system. Long
term, the supplier always wins. And by a large margin.

Of course the supplier wins, they are never charities - they are a
business and need to make a profit.


even charities need to cover their costs


Back in the day, many companies were set up as a source to rent TV's
and it was a sensible option to rent one.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make things
repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result - as well as
incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is probably better than a
screw and is more compact.


I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I would
like to know what it is waiting for. The last I bought can be controlled
via a mobile phone using NFC. I have never seen the point of this, but
if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get full diagnostic
information I would find that useful.


--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote in
:

On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make
things repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result -
as well as incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is
probably better than a screw and is more compact.


I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I
would like to know what it is waiting for. The last I bought can be
controlled via a mobile phone using NFC. I have never seen the point
of this, but if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get
full diagnostic information I would find that useful.



Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers comes to
mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of system. Even a
motorised valve seems to flumox them.

On 08/05/2021 11:16, JohnP wrote:
Michael Chare wrote in
:

On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make
things repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result -
as well as incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is
probably better than a screw and is more compact.


I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I
would like to know what it is waiting for. The last I bought can be
controlled via a mobile phone using NFC. I have never seen the point
of this, but if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get
full diagnostic information I would find that useful.



Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers comes to
mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of system. Even a
motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see the
average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat per
room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.

Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers
comes to mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of
system. Even a motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see
the average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat
per room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.


But he learned how to wipe a lead joint to become Time Served. A different
skill is needed for heating sytems in my view. If it leaks ger a plumber -
other stuff, get a ???????

In article ,
JohnP wrote:




Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers
comes to mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of
system. Even a motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see
the average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat
per room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.


But he learned how to wipe a lead joint to become Time Served. A different
skill is needed for heating sytems in my view. If it leaks ger a plumber -
other stuff, get a ???????

Probably history. In the 50s (and earlier), plumbers were often also
electricians. Steel conduit is pretty similar to working with plumbing
iron barrel. In those days, the electrical side didn't take so much
learning.

--
*A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/05/2021 13:54, JohnP wrote:



Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers
comes to mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of
system. Even a motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see
the average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat
per room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.


But he learned how to wipe a lead joint to become Time Served.

I've wiped one or two lead joints (although the only lead we have left
now is the supply to the house), but I am definitely not a plumber - I
don't even know where my moleskin has gone.

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make things
repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result - as well as
incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is probably better than
a
screw and is more compact.

I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I would
like to know what it is waiting for.

The last I bought can be controlled via a mobile phone using NFC.

Which one was that ?

I have never seen the point of this,

I can, particularly if the washing machine is too far
away to be easy to check on what it is doing or even
to just get a convenient notification of when its done.

but if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get full diagnostic
information I would find that useful.

And if you do more than one type of wash, it would
be handy to be able to have just a couple of icons
for the types of wash you actually use and just
select one or the other for a particular wash etc.

On Sun, 9 May 2021 03:32:55 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 07/05/2021 10:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after one to
three years. I suspect people boiling less than the minimum quantity of water
is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect to say so too often! A
useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested at least that often.

I have had this kettle 5 years. the previous ones lasted 14. The switch
has not broken, the lid has not broken and the base as not melted nor
the element gone.

Perhaps you should treat your kettles better, or buy a better one to
start with?




--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 7 May 2021 at 11:41:56 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
wrote:

On 07/05/2021 10:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after one
to
three years. I suspect people boiling less than the minimum quantity of
water
is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect to say so too often!
A
useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested at least that often.

I have had this kettle 5 years. the previous ones lasted 14. The switch
has not broken, the lid has not broken and the base as not melted nor
the element gone.

Perhaps you should treat your kettles better, or buy a better one to
start with?

I find it difficult to correct other members of the household on their kettle
technique without creating resentment. I suppose I could demand they report
to me for a water adequacy check before every use ...

--
Roger Hayter

On 07/05/2021 11:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/05/2021 10:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after
one to
three years.Â* I suspect people boiling less than the minimum quantity
of water
is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect to say so too
often!Â* A
useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested at least that often.

I have had this kettle 5 years. the previous ones lasted 14. The switch
has not broken, the lid has not broken and the base as not melted nor
the element gone.

Perhaps you should treat your kettles better, or buy a better one to
start with?




Ok, what make and model is it.

On 07/05/2021 10:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 6 May 2021 at 23:28:04 BST, "Michael Chare"
wrote:

The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element
was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so
I thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired. I was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a
slightly lower power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water
level. I wonder how well it will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after one to
three years. I suspect people boiling less than the minimum quantity of water
is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect to say so too often! A
useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested at least that often.


Bosch going strong here after 8+ years use by pensioner household (so
typically a dozen times a day).

There was some force in the EU ECO-bods plans to mandate concealed
elements. (But rather odd politics for them to make so much of it only
being black tea drinkers who generally need boiling.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:09:48 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 6 May 2021 at 23:28:04 BST, "Michael Chare"
wrote:

The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element
was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so
I thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired. I was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a
slightly lower power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water
level. I wonder how well it will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after
one to three years. I suspect people boiling less than the minimum
quantity of water is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect
to say so too often! A useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested
at least that often.

You're probably right about the real cause of premature element failure
being too low a filling but ime, the elements of the last half dozen of
these plastic jug kettles have proved to be the most reliable part,
especially in the last three circular base 3KW types (I've just bought a
fourth circular base 3KW kettle to replace the last one).

The Chinese manufacturer seems to have taken some care in making sure
the element will outlast the other critical parts nominated to fail in
much less potentially dramatic ways than a heating element, in order to
perform the obsoleting role to maintain demand just beyond their basic
one year warranty without lasting so long as to over-extend service life
to the detriment of such lucrative demand.

--
Johnny B Good