In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

A decent bowsaw would have no trouble at all with such diameters,
unless the wood is yew or hawthorn, when anything would. Yes, it
would take some time and effort.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 01/05/2021 14:35, Another John wrote:
I have never considered using a
petrol cutter.
given something like a total of 500 meters of hedge I never considered
using anything else....:-)

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On 01/05/2021 19:04, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

A decent bowsaw would have no trouble at all with such diameters,
unless the wood is yew or hawthorn, when anything would. Yes, it
would take some time and effort.

Oh sure. When the last chainsaw died I used the bowsaw on similar, this
is 5-10 times faster. And I am getting too old

Nothing specially tough about hawthorn, This is field maple. Tougher
than hawthorn IME. Last hawthorn I cut up the small Stihl waltzed through.

maple similar to oak and yew but cant find specs for hawthorn on line...
oh..they reckon 2x hard - well I didnt find it so


What I meant was that its taking a long time to cut the tree. Its purely
a function of power, but then a more powerful saw would weigh even more.

I can probably do about 100W bow sawing. Chainsaw does 1500W.



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 01/05/2021 19:04, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

A decent bowsaw would have no trouble at all with such diameters,
unless the wood is yew or hawthorn, when anything would. Yes, it
would take some time and effort.

Good grief! Not on your Nelly! If I want exercise I'll walk to the
fridge for another beer.

Bill

On 01/05/2021 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What enormous strides? The energy/weight figure for battery is still
light years behind petrol.

Bill
No, not light years, about 50%,

That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

My 36V chainsaw (with a nice new blade) happily slices 14" willow
trunks, it says it's 1100W max.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/2021 17:54, williamwright wrote:
On 30/04/2021 14:54, newshound wrote:
Have you actually tried a modern battery chainsaw, then?

Yes. A bag of ****e when you're used to a good quality petrol machine.

Bill
well yes.
My shoulders are aching from this afternoons efforts to chop up a 10
metre tall tree that fell over last year.
The thickest part of the trunk - that I have yet to tackle - is about 2'
diameter.

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

Don't give up.

There are differences between the original chain, and
some third party replacements. I found my saw worked better
with the second chain on it. I would never have guessed
there would be a difference, as visually "a chain is a chain",
right ?

Paul

On 01/05/2021 19:52, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

My 36V chainsaw (with a nice new blade) happily slices 14" willow
trunks, it says it's 1100W max.

yes. That sounds about right. First of all this is maple. Its hard
stuff. More than that its been fallen all over winter and has dried
out. Finally 'having trouble' mean its slow...oh the chips are flying
out all right, but each cut takes a minute, not 5 seconds like smaller
stuff.

And can your cordless keep that up for two or three hours to section a
full sized tree?

I'll give the blade a sharpen and see if I can get near to finishing the
job today. Then it's on to easier stuff. 5m yews and Hornbeams that
haven't been lopped in 7 years...


--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 02/05/2021 02:42, Paul wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/2021 17:54, williamwright wrote:
On 30/04/2021 14:54, newshound wrote:
Have you actually tried a modern battery chainsaw, then?

Yes. A bag of ****e when you're used to a good quality petrol machine.

Bill
well yes.
My shoulders are aching from this afternoons efforts to chop up a 10
metre tall tree that fell over last year.
The thickest part of the trunk - that I have yet to tackle - is about
2' diameter.

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

Don't give up.

There are differences between the original chain, and
some third party replacements. I found my saw worked better
with the second chain on it. I would never have guessed
there would be a difference, as visually "a chain is a chain",
right ?

Â*Â* Paul
actually it is the original chain as the saw its brand new, but it
probably needs sharpening by now. So far its been brilliant, but really
the saw is too small for what I will be asking it to do. The blade
length is less than the trunk diameter...so the later cuts will be in
two goes, one from each side..

--
€œProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,€�

€“ Ludwig von Mises

On 01/05/2021 19:32, williamwright wrote:
On 01/05/2021 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

What enormous strides? The energy/weight figure for battery is still
light years behind petrol.

Bill
No, not light years, about 50%,

That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and petrol
ones 400 - 600.

But its oranges and apples, What counts is the total package, and an
electric power train weighs way less than a petrol or diesel one *if you
exclude the battery*.

Mains powered hedgetrimmers ought to be the lightest per unit power, of all.

But the actual stats that I looked up on a Stihl,. showed that the
battery equivalent to my baby Stihl was more expensive, of similar
power, slightly less weight but only half an hour cutting time.

Operationally as with a car what counts is the recharge time - seldom
less than an hour if you want the battery to last.

It takes me less than a minute to refill oil and petrol...

--
€œProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,€�

€“ Ludwig von Mises

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And can your cordless keep that up for two or three hours to section a
full sized tree?

I only nip down and do a couple of hours worth at a time to get rid of
the tree, the section of trunk was [guestimating] a few hundred kilos,
so levering it about to avoid the saw touching the ground takes a lot of
time, the saw's not running for long periods, but I'd expect it to need
maybe a set of batteries per hour if it was.

On 01/05/2021 19:52, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

My 36V chainsaw (with a nice new blade) happily slices 14" willow
trunks, it says it's 1100W max.

14"- 2 foot is *THREE TIMES* the amount of material to be removed...

I don't think people realise that the cross section area goes up as the
*square* of the diameter..and that times the kerf, is the volume you
have to rip to shreds to cut the tree.

And that times the wood hardness (willow is soft) is the amount of
energy it takes...

--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and petrol
ones 400 - 600.


200 versus 400-600 is not "fairly close".

Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every time
you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling up with
60 litres of diesel. We have often done journeys of more than 200 miles,
stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of driver. If we had to
factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey of a few hours would turn
into one with an overnight stop - or a long stop at a place of interest
along the way.

When cars have enough range to do a whole journey on one charging of the
battery, then they'll be a viable replacement. We'll probably never get
anywhere near the recharge rate of 60 litres of diesel (700 miles range) in
5 minutes, but then that is several MW of power. But if charging can be
confined to overnight when you're not travelling (or 9-5 when you're in the
office) then it's no great hassle. But having to charge during a journey is
a definite disincentive to owning an electric car.

In article , NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and petrol
ones 400 - 600.


200 versus 400-600 is not "fairly close".

Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every
time you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling
up with 60 litres of diesel. We have often done journeys of more than
200 miles, stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of
driver. If we had to factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey
of a few hours would turn into one with an overnight stop - or a long
stop at a place of interest along the way.

That, too, is my concern. If life returns to 'normal', I expect to do 2 or
3 long distance journeys each year.

When cars have enough range to do a whole journey on one charging of the
battery, then they'll be a viable replacement. We'll probably never get
anywhere near the recharge rate of 60 litres of diesel (700 miles range)
in 5 minutes, but then that is several MW of power. But if charging
can be confined to overnight when you're not travelling (or 9-5 when
you're in the office) then it's no great hassle. But having to charge
during a journey is a definite disincentive to owning an electric car.

Longer advertised mileage ones appear to be coming, but they seem to mostly
"fashion statements" rather than useful vehicles.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 02/05/2021 11:59, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot
more than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and
petrol ones 400 - 600.


200 versus 400-600 is not "fairly close".

its the same order of magnitude

Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every
time you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling
up with 60 litres of diesel. We have often done journeys of more than
200 miles, stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of
driver. If we had to factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey
of a few hours would turn into one with an overnight stop - or a long
stop at a place of interest along the way.

Oh I agree. Don't get me wrong.

My point was really that while electric cars *are* close, there is
certainly no cigar. Not even a hand rolled old Holborn.


When cars have enough range to do a whole journey on one charging of the
battery, then they'll be a viable replacement. We'll probably never get
anywhere near the recharge rate of 60 litres of diesel (700 miles range)
in 5 minutes, but then that is several MW of power. But if charging
can be confined to overnight when you're not travelling (or 9-5 when
you're in the office) then it's no great hassle. But having to charge
during a journey is a definite disincentive to owning an electric car.

Actually 5 minute recharges are *technically* possible. The trade-off is
shorter battery life, less efficiency and a heavier battery. This is one
area where development is actually making decent progress,



--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On 02/05/2021 02:42, Paul wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/05/2021 17:54, williamwright wrote:
On 30/04/2021 14:54, newshound wrote:
Have you actually tried a modern battery chainsaw, then?

Yes. A bag of ****e when you're used to a good quality petrol machine.

Bill
well yes.
My shoulders are aching from this afternoons efforts to chop up a 10
metre tall tree that fell over last year.
The thickest part of the trunk - that I have yet to tackle - is about
2' diameter.

My little chainsaw - petrol - is having trouble with the 8" diameter
sections. I guess its around 1500W equivalent.

Don't give up.

I didn't.

http://vps.templar.co.uk/index.php?album=Garden

First picture taken at 11:12 am. Last picture at around 13:12 pm.

Two resharpens, four tanks of petrol, and almost 2 hours of continuous
cutting.

150 meters down the garden so forget mains power, and really unless I
had 4 batteries ready charged, more than I could do with a battery one.

Batteries may work for occasional hobby use, but some of us have MAN
SIZED TREES.

There are differences between the original chain, and
some third party replacements. I found my saw worked better
with the second chain on it. I would never have guessed
there would be a difference, as visually "a chain is a chain",
right ?

Sharpening is te key. I need a new file now ...
Â*Â* Paul


--
€œThe urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the
urge to rule it.€�
€“ H. L. Mencken

On Sun, 02 May 2021 12:05:03 +0100, charles wrote:

In article , NY wrote:


Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every
time you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling
up with 60 litres of diesel. We have often done journeys of more than
200 miles, stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of
driver. If we had to factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey
of a few hours would turn into one with an overnight stop - or a long
stop at a place of interest along the way.

That, too, is my concern. If life returns to 'normal', I expect to do 2
or 3 long distance journeys each year.

Similar to me. Normally I can do a round trip of just under 600 miles
with a fill of diesel at start and finish of the round trip. With a
loaded trailer behind I can get to the 'return point' and then fill up
for the journey back.

Electric would see me stopping for top ups on each leg plus a proper
charge at the 'return point'. That is *solo* and in good weather without
lights etc.

With the trailer and load it becomes an unimaginable task with frequent
lengthy stops unless..

Longer advertised mileage ones appear to be coming, but they seem to
mostly "fashion statements" rather than useful vehicles.

.... the fashion statements do actually become usable vehicles especially
when towing a load.

I expect that I may wait for a few years more, buy a good diesel and let
that see me out.

Bev wrote:

With the trailer and load it becomes an unimaginable task

Especially as only a select few electric cars are allowed to tow.

On Sun, 02 May 2021 15:21:32 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Bev wrote:

With the trailer and load it becomes an unimaginable task

Especially as only a select few electric cars are allowed to tow.

Indeed - and most have a ridiculously low limit. Ok for a hobby trailer
to the tip but nothing more serious. Some hybrids have better
capabilities but still not as much as I'd like.

NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and petrol
ones 400 - 600.


200 versus 400-600 is not "fairly close".

Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every time
you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling up with
60 litres of diesel.

You exaggerate as always. On a high power DC charger 30 mins or less may
be enough to take up you up to 80% charge. Ultimately the speed of
changing is determined by the potential output of the charge and the cars
capacity to utilise that output so theres a fair variation. In general
though, things are improving. It is not always €œmany hours€�.

Even if it is €œmany hours€�, you can refuel at home while you sleep. Can you
do that with your car?


We have often done journeys of more than 200 miles,
stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of driver. If we had to
factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey of a few hours would turn
into one with an overnight stop - or a long stop at a place of interest
along the way.


Undoubtably, for long fast journeys, conventional fuels win in terms of
convenience at the moment.

When cars have enough range to do a whole journey on one charging of the
battery, then they'll be a viable replacement. We'll probably never get
anywhere near the recharge rate of 60 litres of diesel (700 miles range) in
5 minutes, but then that is several MW of power.

No, but Teslas latest battery design could bring it down to 15 minutes and
thats not *so* bad.

But if charging can be
confined to overnight when you're not travelling (or 9-5 when you're in the
office) then it's no great hassle. But having to charge during a journey is
a definite disincentive to owning an electric car.

Currently, Id agree but when you can start off with a full €œtank€� every
morning you can often avoid having to charge during a journey. Ive done
10,000 miles since September without ever having to charge during a
journey.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"NY" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and petrol
ones 400 - 600.


200 versus 400-600 is not "fairly close".

Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every
time you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling up
with 60 litres of diesel. We have often done journeys of more than 200
miles, stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of driver. If
we had to factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey of a few
hours would turn into one with an overnight stop - or a long stop at a
place of interest along the way.

When cars have enough range to do a whole journey on one charging of the
battery, then they'll be a viable replacement. We'll probably never get
anywhere near the recharge rate of 60 litres of diesel (700 miles range)
in 5 minutes, but then that is several MW of power. But if charging can
be confined to overnight when you're not travelling (or 9-5 when you're in
the office) then it's no great hassle. But having to charge during a
journey is a definite disincentive to owning an electric car.

Yeah, thats the reason I wont have one even if you cant buy a new ICE car
anymore.

Cant see a battery swap being viable either tho that would fix the charge
time problem.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
That doesn't equate with a vehicle's range with a tankful of petrol
compared to a battery full of leccy. And the battery weighs a lot more
than the petrol.

Bill

no, its fairly close - leccy cars have about 200 miles range and petrol
ones 400 - 600.


200 versus 400-600 is not "fairly close".

Not only do you have to recharge the battery more frequently, but every
time you have to wait many hours, as opposed to 5 mins max when filling
up with 60 litres of diesel. We have often done journeys of more than
200 miles, stopping only for brief loo breaks and maybe change of
driver. If we had to factor in a much longer recharging stop, a journey
of a few hours would turn into one with an overnight stop - or a long
stop at a place of interest along the way.

That, too, is my concern. If life returns to 'normal', I expect to do 2 or
3 long distance journeys each year.

Me too, and mostly at night too.

When cars have enough range to do a whole journey on one charging of the
battery, then they'll be a viable replacement. We'll probably never get
anywhere near the recharge rate of 60 litres of diesel (700 miles range)
in 5 minutes, but then that is several MW of power. But if charging
can be confined to overnight when you're not travelling (or 9-5 when
you're in the office) then it's no great hassle. But having to charge
during a journey is a definite disincentive to owning an electric car.

Longer advertised mileage ones appear to be coming, but they seem
to mostly "fashion statements" rather than useful vehicles.

Dunno about that last bit. That’s not really true of the longest range
Tesla,
but its got a stupid price.

On Mon, 3 May 2021 04:59:53 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread

--
JimK addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"I really feel the quality of your trolling has dropped in the last few
months..."
MID:

On 29/04/2021 22:10, Another John wrote:
I'm cross--posting to DIY and to Gardening.

I have had two Bosch AHS 55-26 (corded) hedgetrimmers in the last 10
years. I cut a lot of hedging, in three different gardens, and this is a
great cutter: 55cm blade, 600W power, and weighs 3.6kg; my second one
cost me about �130 several years ago. Used sensibly, nothing stops it
blazing through the many different hedges I look after.

I'm starting to get older ... hang on: I've always been getting older:
what has happened is that I'm starting to _feel_ older, and I'm
wondering if a cordless (therefore lighter) trimmer will be kinder to my
now-rapidly declining body.

Does anyone have reasonably extensive experience of cordless trimmers? I
can't really believe that even the best cordless trimmer could match the
power of the one I have.

Opinions would be most welcome - TIA

John



The decent cordless ones have quite heavy batteries - may not help you,
they are more convenient though with no extension lead.

On 02/05/2021 09:16, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And can your cordless keep that up for two or three hours to section a
full sized tree?

I only nip down and do a couple of hours worth at a time to get rid of
the tree, the section of trunk was [guestimating] a few hundred kilos,
so levering it about to avoid the saw touching the ground takes a lot of
time, the saw's not running for long periods, but I'd expect it to need
maybe a set of batteries per hour if it was.

Same here. I don't see tree surgeons and full time wood-cutters giving
up on petrol for a while. But for more casual DIY use, especially if you
are getting on a bit and don't have to finish in a day, even an 18 volt
lithium is an eye-opener. And since I have standardised on one make, I
have three or four 4AH and two 2AH batteries; I suspect they'd be enough
for a full day even without recharging.

newshound wrote:

I don't see tree surgeons and full time wood-cutters giving up on petrol
for a while. But for more casual DIY use [...] 18 volt lithium is
an eye-opener.

I'd say that's a fair summary.