On 25/04/2021 01:27, tony sayer wrote:
I've got a rather elderly Motorola which is a superb phone for what i
need. However its now some years old and in need of a new battery.

Can anyone recommend a battery seller who supplies decent reliable long
lasting batteries?, I see on fleabay some as cheap as a couple of quid
surely at that price the quality must suffer?, don't mind paying more
for a decent product its a MOTO G3 type number XT1541

TIA!..

A couple of quid is in fact all the raw cells cost.,


--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 25/04/2021 07:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/04/2021 01:27, tony sayer wrote:
I've got a rather elderly Motorola which is a superb phone for what i
need. However its now some years old and in need of a new battery.

Can anyone recommend a battery seller who supplies decent reliable long
lasting batteries?, I see on fleabay some as cheap as a couple of quid
surely at that price the quality must suffer?, don't mind paying more
for a decent product its a MOTO G3 type number XT1541

TIA!..

A couple of quid is in fact all the raw cells cost.,


Agreed. I think the Chinese have figured out for themselves that
skimping on battery QA is self defeating. My experience with two or
three dozen non-oem phone, camera, and cordless tool batteries is that
problems are very infrequent. I've certainly never had an extreme failure.

On 26/04/2021 16:28, newshound wrote:

Agreed. I think the Chinese have figured out for themselves that
skimping on battery QA is self defeating. My experience with two or
three dozen non-oem phone, camera, and cordless tool batteries is that
problems are very infrequent. I've certainly never had an extreme failure.

I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.
Batteries from another (random) supplier have since lasted well, so far.
There was practically no price difference between the good and bad
batteries.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/04/2021 17:30, alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2021 16:28, newshound wrote:

Agreed. I think the Chinese have figured out for themselves that
skimping on battery QA is self defeating. My experience with two or
three dozen non-oem phone, camera, and cordless tool batteries is that
problems are very infrequent. I've certainly never had an extreme
failure.

I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.
Batteries from another (random) supplier have since lasted well, so far.
There was practically no price difference between the good and bad
batteries.


Agreed. That's why I took caution in choosing a supplier.

I have replaced a few batteries in mobile phones, satnavs and tablets,
and bargains from eBay and Amazon have mostly been nothing more than
frauds. They recycle parts cleaning to look like new, not manufacture -
a process with expensive tooling and QA, not all can afford. Have a look
on eBay for factory tours.

The work (and risk for me) in disassembling a fiddly expensive phone,
and having not to repeat that exercise again in a short time, makes it
worthwhile.

Releasing double sided sticky tape from the back of a charged Li-Ion
phone battery without damaging it and letting out the demon wisps, is
not my idea of fun. Even worse if an overcharged damaged battery is
boating. So the less time done with me wielding dental floss approaching
the target in bomb disposal mode, the better

Then some would say I'm a bit of a wuss....

--
Adrian C

On 26/04/2021 18:12, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 26/04/2021 17:30, alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2021 16:28, newshound wrote:

Agreed. I think the Chinese have figured out for themselves that
skimping on battery QA is self defeating. My experience with two or
three dozen non-oem phone, camera, and cordless tool batteries is
that problems are very infrequent. I've certainly never had an
extreme failure.

I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.
Batteries from another (random) supplier have since lasted well, so
far. There was practically no price difference between the good and
bad batteries.


Agreed. That's why I took caution in choosing a supplier.

I have replaced a few batteries in mobile phones, satnavs and tablets,
and bargains from eBay and Amazon have mostly been nothing more than
frauds. They recycle parts cleaning to look like new, not manufacture -
a process with expensive tooling and QA, not all can afford. Have a look
on eBay for factory tours.

The work (and risk for me) in disassembling a fiddly expensive phone,
and having not to repeat that exercise again in a short time, makes it
worthwhile.

Releasing double sided sticky tape from the back of a charged Li-Ion
phone battery without damaging it and letting out the demon wisps, is
not my idea of fun. Even worse if an overcharged damaged battery is
boating. So the less time done with me wielding dental floss approaching
the target in bomb disposal mode, the better

Then some would say I'm a bit of a wuss....


Many of my phones have had removable batteries, but I didn't have any
trouble replacing the glued-in one on my wife's iPhone a few months ago.
I think I have probably only bought batteries from Amazon or eBay, and I
do select based on feedback. I can only repeat that I have never had
significant problems. I think I had one camera battery that did not last
particularly well. I had a phone once that started giving short battery
life, but I was able to show that this was the phone, not the batteries,
by swapping genuine and clone batteries back and forth between this and
another phone of the same model.

alan_m wrote:
I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.

My experience is that if a battery is called "genuine", you have
to check very carefully to see that it is also described as
"new"/"unused" (which it is probably not).

Batteries from another (random) supplier have since lasted well,
so far.

Same here. I think I get better odds of a good outcome by buying
a random supplier's "matching" battery, than of getting an actual
unused genuine one. Also, if the device is really old, it seems
to me that any actual unused genuine battery may have suffered
from aging.

#Paul

On 26/04/2021 20:07, #Paul wrote:
alan_m wrote:
I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.

My experience is that if a battery is called "genuine", you have
to check very carefully to see that it is also described as
"new"/"unused" (which it is probably not).

Batteries from another (random) supplier have since lasted well,
so far.

Same here. I think I get better odds of a good outcome by buying
a random supplier's "matching" battery, than of getting an actual
unused genuine one. Also, if the device is really old, it seems
to me that any actual unused genuine battery may have suffered
from aging.

I have interesting problems sometimes buying electronic accessories for
a keen price.

A set of active 3D glasses for a Sony TV can cost a lot in a dealer
(£100 a pair then), and is available discounted across both Amazon and
eBay. On there some of the packaging, printing and pack photographs look
suspect - never mind their claims that this a genuine or a genuine
compatible with an original part, either will leave my head spinning.

So I deliberately wound up buying something cheaper that looked
completely not a Sony product, yet had some positive views from previous
purchasers. It was fine for the two 3D bluerays I own.

--
Adrian C

On 26/04/2021 20:07, #Paul wrote:
alan_m wrote:
I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.

My experience is that if a battery is called "genuine", you have
to check very carefully to see that it is also described as
"new"/"unused" (which it is probably not).

Sellers will show a genuine battery in their adverts or listings but
what you get is slightly different - but it will have the brand name and
a hologram sticker etc. The supplied battery is just fake.

The ones to really avoid are those claiming to be double the capacity,
but in the same physical package.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 20:07:14 +0100,
(#Paul) wrote:

alan_m wrote:
I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.

My experience is that if a battery is called "genuine", you have
to check very carefully to see that it is also described as
"new"/"unused" (which it is probably not).

The problem is what defines whether a battery is "genuine"?

Phone manufacturers source their batteries from various third-party
suppliers. Each of those suppliers probably sell their batteries via
different channels to any number of other customers.

So is a battery still "genuine" if it came from the same factory, but
didn't have a particular label on it?

Chris

Chris in Makati wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 20:07:14 +0100,
(#Paul) wrote:

alan_m wrote:
I've found the opposite with two phones and one camera. Replacement
batteries (always described as genuine) have failed within 3 months.

My experience is that if a battery is called "genuine", you have
to check very carefully to see that it is also described as
"new"/"unused" (which it is probably not).

The problem is what defines whether a battery is "genuine"?

Phone manufacturers source their batteries from various third-party
suppliers. Each of those suppliers probably sell their batteries via
different channels to any number of other customers.

So is a battery still "genuine" if it came from the same
factory, but didn't have a particular label on it?

That wasn't really my point, but a phone manufacturer might e.g. specify
stringent quality control checks on batteries it sources. This still
leaves the factory able to sells good-but-not-good-enough batteries off
as "compatible"; so a battery from the same factory might (or might not)
be the same in all respects as a "genuine" one.

My point about "genuine" as a sales-tag was that it seems often
to be used mainly to distract a buyer from the fact (or possibility)
that whilst the battery might be genuine, it was also used/
second-hand/ failed, or otherwise not what the buyer is *actually*
looking for.

#Paul

In uk.d-i-y Chris in Makati wrote:
Phone manufacturers source their batteries from various third-party
suppliers. Each of those suppliers probably sell their batteries via
different channels to any number of other customers.

So is a battery still "genuine" if it came from the same factory, but
didn't have a particular label on it?

I think the 'made in the same factory as Kelloggs' argument is overdone.
Most top-tier brands (Apple, Samsung, etc) have agreements with major
contract manufacturers (Foxconn, etc). Foxconn have enough of a reputation
to protect that they won't build knockoff iPhones on the late shift and let
them into the market.

For lower level components it's possible the same part is branded multiple
ways (like different cars can share the same part), but I imagine the volume
of Apple, Samsung, etc is such they buy all the production of factory X with
no scope for running a late shift. Plus if Apple found out the contract
would be terminated very fast. Most of the parts you might replace (screen,
case, battery, etc) are bespoke so there's no sharing between different
brands than there might be for oil filters or wheel bearings, where you
might buy a Skoda part cheaper than an Audi part.

So when we're looking at aftermarket parts I think it's fair to assume we're
looking at those from secondary suppliers. The QC is only as good as the
effort they put in and the supply chain that got it to you.

This is separate from the increased risks of fakes in 'genuine' parts, as
against aftermarket brands which aren't worth faking.

Theo

On 12:55 28 Apr 2021, Theo said:

In uk.d-i-y Chris in Makati wrote:
Phone manufacturers source their batteries from various
third-party suppliers. Each of those suppliers probably sell
their batteries via different channels to any number of other
customers.

So is a battery still "genuine" if it came from the same factory,
but didn't have a particular label on it?

I think the 'made in the same factory as Kelloggs' argument is
overdone. Most top-tier brands (Apple, Samsung, etc) have
agreements with major contract manufacturers (Foxconn, etc).
Foxconn have enough of a reputation to protect that they won't
build knockoff iPhones on the late shift and let them into the
market.

However a manufacturer can run two lines with one producing
batteries of lower spec (and lower cost) than the other.

For lower level components it's possible the same part is branded
multiple ways (like different cars can share the same part), but I
imagine the volume of Apple, Samsung, etc is such they buy all the
production of factory X with no scope for running a late shift.
Plus if Apple found out the contract would be terminated very
fast. Most of the parts you might replace (screen, case, battery,
etc) are bespoke so there's no sharing between different brands
than there might be for oil filters or wheel bearings, where you
might buy a Skoda part cheaper than an Audi part.

So when we're looking at aftermarket parts I think it's fair to
assume we're looking at those from secondary suppliers. The QC is
only as good as the effort they put in and the supply chain that
got it to you.

This is separate from the increased risks of fakes in 'genuine'
parts, as against aftermarket brands which aren't worth faking.

Theo

"Theo" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y Chris in Makati wrote:
Phone manufacturers source their batteries from various third-party
suppliers. Each of those suppliers probably sell their batteries via
different channels to any number of other customers.

So is a battery still "genuine" if it came from the same factory, but
didn't have a particular label on it?

I think the 'made in the same factory as Kelloggs' argument is overdone.
Most top-tier brands (Apple, Samsung, etc) have agreements with major
contract manufacturers (Foxconn, etc). Foxconn have enough of a
reputation
to protect that they won't build knockoff iPhones on the late shift and
let
them into the market.

For lower level components it's possible the same part is branded multiple
ways (like different cars can share the same part), but I imagine the
volume
of Apple, Samsung, etc is such they buy all the production of factory X
with
no scope for running a late shift.

Its more complicated than that with replacement batterys for
their older now obsolete phones. They wont be still doing the
full production of those anymore.

Plus if Apple found out the contract would be terminated very fast.

Depends on who else can produce them in that volume.

Most of the parts you might replace (screen, case, battery, etc)
are bespoke so there's no sharing between different brands
than there might be for oil filters or wheel bearings, where
you might buy a Skoda part cheaper than an Audi part.

So when we're looking at aftermarket parts I think it's fair to assume
we're looking at those from secondary suppliers. The QC is only as
good as the effort they put in and the supply chain that got it to you.

This is separate from the increased risks of fakes in 'genuine'
parts, as against aftermarket brands which aren't worth faking.