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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On 26/04/2021 19:06, Michael Chare wrote:
On 26/04/2021 08:54, alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2021 07:50, RJH wrote:

If only - the first warning I had of a failing battery was the dash
dials
going haywire, and then the car came to a stop.


Albeit on a 5+ year old battery I once had a failure overnight. The
previous day it started the car which had been sitting for 18 hours in
temperatures below 0C.* It started the car a couple of more times
during the day. Previously there had been no indication of a failing
battery and my daily commute was 30+ miles. On the morning of the
failure the dash lights came on for a second or two and then dimmed to
nothing, a turn of the key resulted in zilch. A morning on the charger
did nothing.

A new battery restored everything to working order.



What sort of battery did you have.


This was many cars ago so no idea.


I now have a car with an AGM battery
for stop start.* I am now wondering how long it will last and what a
failure will be like.* For the past 25 years my cars have normally
started very easily so I don't notice that the battery is failing. One
car would not start so I charged the battery, drove about 10 miles to
buy a new one and then the car would not start to come home until I
fitted the new battery. Fortunately I had the tools I needed with me.



Often in the "good old days" part of the problem with a failing battery
was a low starter motor cracking speed coupled with a poor spark. Then
came electronic ignition and then fuel injection and often if there was
enough in the battery to just turn the engine the car would start
immediately.



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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On 26/04/2021 11:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

After all many cars have told
you about the fuel running low for quite a few years. ;-)


But now it's not just the equivalent of a warning light - it tells you
how many fuel miles you have left in your tank.

On my current car I've not had to find out after it says the tank is
empty how many fuel miles miles are left in the tank.

On my old car after the gauge said empty and long after the light had
come on I could drive at least another 30 miles.



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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On 26/04/2021 19:56, ARW wrote:
On 25/04/2021 19:09, alan_m wrote:
On 24/04/2021 11:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Immobiliser? Radio memory? I'm sure the makers of expensive cars
would do
everything they could to reduce quiescent load.


I really don't see an answer to it with modern cars. And I'm sure many
very clever engineers have given it much thought.


All data could be stored in non-volatile memory requiring no power to
maintain it when the cars ignition is turned off, or key/fob removed.

I guess the biggest user of standby power on a car is remote locking
and the alarm.



Depends if you are a dick like me:-)

I left the dashcam in the car plugged in for three weeks and flattened
the battery [1].

The car's "cig lighter" socket is always on unlike the works van.

[1] Just enough so that it did not have enough juice to start the car.
Diesel on a cold morning etc.



On my car all power to the USB and 12V socket (cigarette lighter socket)
goes off approx 10 minutes after the key is removed from the ignition.


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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On 26/04/2021 11:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The answer is very simple. Either use the car before the battery goes
flat, or charge the battery.


I keep one of those compact battery boosters in my boot. It has
successfully started a neighbours car after it had been left overnight
in the cold with the lights on.

I only do a quick top up charge on the booster pack every 6 months.




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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 07:49:46 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 26/04/2021 11:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The answer is very simple. Either use the car before the battery goes
flat, or charge the battery.


I keep one of those compact battery boosters in my boot. It has
successfully started a neighbours car after it had been left overnight
in the cold with the lights on.

I only do a quick top up charge on the booster pack every 6 months.


Is this a lithium pack alan?

I have a lithium pack that I have used successfully many times but as
you say, you do need to ensure it's kept reasonably 'ready' (not sure
it's good to keep lithiums at 100% charge when in storage) whereas the
super capacitive starters don't need to be kept ready, so could be
better for true long term 'emergency' use.

I think they are much more expensive though.

Mate bought one for himself and used it to start a car with dying
battery (several times) and then bought a bigger one and gave the
first to his daughter.

However, he suggested another mate buy one and when his battery went
flat, we couldn't seem to get it to work (I was helping him over the
phone) and he ended up putting it on a conventional charger for a few
hours.

Anyone here got / tried a capacitive one OOI?

Cheers, T i m


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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 07:30:56 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 26/04/2021 19:56, ARW wrote:
On 25/04/2021 19:09, alan_m wrote:
On 24/04/2021 11:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Immobiliser? Radio memory? I'm sure the makers of expensive cars
would do everything they could to reduce quiescent load.

I really don't see an answer to it with modern cars. And I'm sure
many very clever engineers have given it much thought.


All data could be stored in non-volatile memory requiring no power to
maintain it when the cars ignition is turned off, or key/fob removed.

I guess the biggest user of standby power on a car is remote locking
and the alarm.



Depends if you are a dick like me:-)

I left the dashcam in the car plugged in for three weeks and flattened
the battery [1].

The car's "cig lighter" socket is always on unlike the works van.

[1] Just enough so that it did not have enough juice to start the car.
Diesel on a cold morning etc.



On my car all power to the USB and 12V socket (cigarette lighter socket)
goes off approx 10 minutes after the key is removed from the ignition.


I've actually wired the dashcam to an 'always on' circuit. It will record
it it detects a knock, etc.

I don't normally leave the car for more than a few days. When I did (last
year) I had the dashcam out anyway.



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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On 27/04/2021 08:49, T i m wrote:


Is this a lithium pack alan?


Yes, the power brick is 6 x 3x 1.5 inches with a torch and USB socket
as well as the short jumper lead.

DBpower DJS10

It comes in a robust 9 x 5 x 4 inch case containing all the accessories
(mains charging adapter, 12V charging adapter, USB lead, short jumper lead)



I have a lithium pack that I have used successfully many times but as
you say, you do need to ensure it's kept reasonably 'ready' (not sure
it's good to keep lithiums at 100% charge when in storage) whereas the
super capacitive starters don't need to be kept ready, so could be
better for true long term 'emergency' use.


Mine seems to have lasted at least 4 years and if unused for 6
months(ish) its down to, say, 80% capacity (full charge is 5 leds lit,
after 6 months 4 leds lit before recharge)


I think they are much more expensive though.


Around £30?




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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Apr 2021 at 11:11:29 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:


In article ,
alan_m wrote:
I once had disks and pads replaced by a local garage and years later
when replacing the pads myself found that the low pad wires had not
been connected - they had been neatly coiled up and cable tied
safely out of the way.


Most brake pad warning systems show an error if the sensors aren't
connected.


That may be true of more sophisticated cars but the two Fords I had
about 10 and fifteen years ago simply had a single wire that was open
circuit until the pad contact wore down to short it to earth. So they
had no idea whether they were connected.


The connector between the sensor and the loom usually has a link in it. No
sensor connected, no circuit. It's like that on my ancient Rover. Most
modern ones have a loop as a sensor.

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Dave Plowman London SW
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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2021 11:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


After all many cars have told
you about the fuel running low for quite a few years. ;-)


But now it's not just the equivalent of a warning light - it tells you
how many fuel miles you have left in your tank.


Many had a warning light too which came on when the level dropped below a
fixed amount. Just like a screen washer level sensor.

On my current car I've not had to find out after it says the tank is
empty how many fuel miles miles are left in the tank.


On my old car after the gauge said empty and long after the light had
come on I could drive at least another 30 miles.


And your screen washers don't stop working the second the warning comes on
either. Not much point in one which did that.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

In message , alan_m
writes
On 26/04/2021 19:06, Michael Chare wrote:
On 26/04/2021 08:54, alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2021 07:50, RJH wrote:

If only - the first warning I had of a failing battery was the dash
dials
going haywire, and then the car came to a stop.

Albeit on a 5+ year old battery I once had a failure overnight. The
previous day it started the car which had been sitting for 18 hours
in temperatures below 0C.* It started the car a couple of more times
during the day. Previously there had been no indication of a failing
battery and my daily commute was 30+ miles. On the morning of the
failure the dash lights came on for a second or two and then dimmed
to nothing, a turn of the key resulted in zilch. A morning on the
charger did nothing.

A new battery restored everything to working order.


What sort of battery did you have.


This was many cars ago so no idea.


I now have a car with an AGM battery for stop start.* I am now
wondering how long it will last and what a failure will be like.* For
the past 25 years my cars have normally started very easily so I
don't notice that the battery is failing. One car would not start so
I charged the battery, drove about 10 miles to buy a new one and then
the car would not start to come home until I fitted the new battery.
Fortunately I had the tools I needed with me.


Often in the "good old days" part of the problem with a failing battery
was a low starter motor cracking speed coupled with a poor spark. Then
came electronic ignition and then fuel injection and often if there was
enough in the battery to just turn the engine the car would start
immediately.

Back in the late 60s, add-on electronic ignition was a popular topic in
many hobbyist magazines. I made one design, and although it worked, I
had various problems with it.

The use of ballast resistors was also popular (where the coil primary
was around 8V fed via a resistor which a relay shorts when the ignition
key was being turned).

I have always been of the opinion that the most effective modification
would have been to power the ignition coil from a separate (small) 12V
battery, fed via a diode from the main battery.
--
Ian


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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On 27 Apr 2021 at 10:51:14 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Apr 2021 at 11:11:29 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"

wrote:


In article ,
alan_m wrote:
I once had disks and pads replaced by a local garage and years later
when replacing the pads myself found that the low pad wires had not
been connected - they had been neatly coiled up and cable tied
safely out of the way.

Most brake pad warning systems show an error if the sensors aren't
connected.


That may be true of more sophisticated cars but the two Fords I had
about 10 and fifteen years ago simply had a single wire that was open
circuit until the pad contact wore down to short it to earth. So they
had no idea whether they were connected.


The connector between the sensor and the loom usually has a link in it. No
sensor connected, no circuit. It's like that on my ancient Rover. Most
modern ones have a loop as a sensor.


The Ford ones didn't. It was a one pin connector. And the pads were normally
o/c. No resistor or anything, apart from the pads not having a reliable earth
path anyway.

--
Roger Hayter


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In article ,
alan_m wrote:
I think they are much more expensive though.


Around 30?


Do make sure it's suitable for your actual engine, though. The cheaper
ones may be OK for a smallish petrol engine - but ones for medium sized
diesels and bigger petrol engines are quite a bit more.

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Dave Plowman London SW
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Default OT: Car battery volt drop

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:49:13 +0100, alan_m
wrote:

On 27/04/2021 08:49, T i m wrote:


Is this a lithium pack alan?


Yes, the power brick is 6 x 3x 1.5 inches with a torch and USB socket
as well as the short jumper lead.

DBpower DJS10

It comes in a robust 9 x 5 x 4 inch case containing all the accessories
(mains charging adapter, 12V charging adapter, USB lead, short jumper lead)


Sounds very much like the one I have then. ;-)

I have a lithium pack that I have used successfully many times but as
you say, you do need to ensure it's kept reasonably 'ready' (not sure
it's good to keep lithiums at 100% charge when in storage) whereas the
super capacitive starters don't need to be kept ready, so could be
better for true long term 'emergency' use.


Mine seems to have lasted at least 4 years and if unused for 6
months(ish) its down to, say, 80% capacity (full charge is 5 leds lit,
after 6 months 4 leds lit before recharge)


That's pretty good isn't it ... however, unless you make sure you do
keep an eye on the chare they can be one of those things that get
neglected and self destruct. ;-(


I think they are much more expensive though.


Around 30?


I was referring to the supercapacitor jobbies. You can 'charge' them
from even your own 'flat' battery (as long as it has 'some' volts)
over a couple of minutes and then release it back to produce enough
current to start the engine (hopefully). ;-)

I think my mate bought his from Halfords but they don't seem to do
them now?

Cheers, T i m


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On 27/04/2021 12:04, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 27 Apr 2021 at 10:51:14 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
On 26 Apr 2021 at 11:11:29 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"

wrote:


In article ,
alan_m wrote:
I once had disks and pads replaced by a local garage and years later
when replacing the pads myself found that the low pad wires had not
been connected - they had been neatly coiled up and cable tied
safely out of the way.

Most brake pad warning systems show an error if the sensors aren't
connected.


That may be true of more sophisticated cars but the two Fords I had
about 10 and fifteen years ago simply had a single wire that was open
circuit until the pad contact wore down to short it to earth. So they
had no idea whether they were connected.


The connector between the sensor and the loom usually has a link in it. No
sensor connected, no circuit. It's like that on my ancient Rover. Most
modern ones have a loop as a sensor.


The Ford ones didn't. It was a one pin connector. And the pads were normally
o/c. No resistor or anything, apart from the pads not having a reliable earth
path anyway.


+1
That's what I remember from my Ford

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