Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates
to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with
rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have
anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of
it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back
towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking
end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it
rotates clockwise.

One of the implications of this is that if the speed control is turned
slightly too far in relation to how fast you are walking, the barrow shoots
ahead, turning the control further *on* - until the barrow leaves your hand
when obviously the throttle closes due to its spring. It's also
uncomfortable to bend your hand back at the wrist to hold the power on; it
would be more comfortable to bend the hand forwards (palm towards wrist).

NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates
to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with
rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have
anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of
it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back
towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking
end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it
rotates clockwise.

Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed.

.... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it
anti-clockwise to increase speed.

--
Chris Green
·

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:31:04 +0100, "NY" wrote:

Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates
to control the throttle?

Yes.

I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with
rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have
anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side.

Std.

I would expect to rotate the top of
it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back
towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way.

So the 'normal' way. ;-)

Looking
end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it
rotates clockwise.

Correct (a bit of a strange POV for such things but still correct).
;-)

One of the implications of this is that if the speed control is turned
slightly too far in relation to how fast you are walking, the barrow shoots
ahead, turning the control further *on* -

Yup. Watch You've been Framed or Youtube for 'noobs' riding things
though fences and sheds.

until the barrow leaves your hand
when obviously the throttle closes due to its spring.

Yup.

It's also
uncomfortable to bend your hand back at the wrist to hold the power on; it
would be more comfortable to bend the hand forwards (palm towards wrist).

Except you don't typically do that. You hold the throttle in such a
way that you have you wrist at such a point that it keeps it
comfortable (especially when cruising at a particular or tight range
of speeds).

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:38:24 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates
to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with
rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have
anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of
it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back
towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking
end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it
rotates clockwise.

Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed.

... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it
anti-clockwise to increase speed.

Not just me then where looking at the rotation direction from the
middle is a bit 'unusual'? ;-)

Now it may well be on an 'electric wheelbarrow' you have two steering
arms (reminiscent of typical wheelbarrow handles but not what I took
from 'central handlebar axle') and so could be viewed from the inside
out?

Not having a go at NT, just interested in how others approach things.
;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:38:24 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates
to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with
rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have
anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of
it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back
towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking
end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it
rotates clockwise.

Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed.

... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it
anti-clockwise to increase speed.

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

Like you (potentially) I have had and been around mopeds / scooters /
motorcycle all my life and currently own about 10 (only one on the
road atm). I've never been 'a biker' as such, happy to walk, cycle,
motorcycle or use the car as they suit, but I would consider myself 'a
motorcyclist' as I enjoy working and being on and going places (or
nowhere) on them. ;-)

Thinking on, the throttle direction rotation question also carries on
with outboard motors where you do typically look at it from the open
end and more throttle is anticlockwise (even my electric one). ;-).

As it is with most taps of course? [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] And you still get people who ask 'which way to turn it on' with
(conventional) taps?

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different
ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a
car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike
throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is
very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels
have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre
which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make
steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down.

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:35 +0100, "NY" wrote:

snip

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a
car.

Maybe you are younger than some, or had more money or were 'put off'
motorbikes by your family?

It was the only way I could use something motorised when I was 16. ;-)

I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes.

Well, same here as I've carried on with cycles as well. Again, pre
mopeds at 16, a bike was the only way to avoid walking to school or
getting on the bus.

I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike
hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike
throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is
very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

Yeah, but you don't do that. You grasp the throttle with you wrist
over the top of the bar slightly and then end up with it parallel.

The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels
have wide inflated tyres,

'Flotation wheels / tyres' I think they sometimes call them. Daughter
had a wood chopper built on a trailer that had very wide wheels /
tyres to minimise the chances of it getting bogged down on soft
ground.

the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre
which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make
steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down.

Sounds like a d-i-y mod coming up. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:37:06 +0100, T i m wrote:


I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've
ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way
round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake
is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left)
across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in?

Many bicycles with cable brakes can be swapped front/rear right/left in a
matter of a minute or so - it's a simple case of unhooking and swapping.

T i m wrote:

I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike
hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake
(both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard
nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the
right)

There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these
on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some
such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time.


--
Chris Green
·

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:49:20 -0000 (UTC), Scion
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:37:06 +0100, T i m wrote:


I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've
ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way
round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake
is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left)
across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in?

Many bicycles with cable brakes can be swapped front/rear right/left in a
matter of a minute or so - it's a simple case of unhooking and swapping.

Sure.

The issue though is *are they* other way round (to what is 'std' here)
in other countries? I don't believe they would be.

Cheers, T i m

On 06/04/2021 11:10, NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50
different ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to
getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I
remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've
ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way
round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake
is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left)
across traffic.

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a
motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the
throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered
wheels have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow
solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre
might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down.

Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:59:32 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

T i m wrote:

I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike
hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake
(both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard
nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the
right)

Yup ... and because I never grew up on 'old British iron' I had no
muscle memory with the rear brake (particularly) that way round (on
the left) and so whilst I could normally ride my Royal Enfield Bullet
(350/ 'Madras') pretty safely, I couldn't be 100% sure in an emergency
situation and with my daughter / Mrs pillion. I did look into swapping
them over but it was easier to sell it and buy something else.

There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these
on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some
such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time.

Hehe.

I don't believe the foot controls of any conventionally controlled car
are reversed, irrespective of what side the steering wheel is are they
(except Go carts possibly etc) and so the idea of having a motorcycle
foot brake on the right (and the throttle mentally, even if operated
by hand as on a motorbike), made more sense.

I've had a couple of mopeds and cycles where the rear brake was a
'back pedal' type and found that ok as well as generally would use my
right foot to operate it (bringing the right pedal round to the
rearwards position before apply the brake).

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:15:49 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

Like a car accelerator pedal then? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 06/04/2021 09:31, NY wrote:

Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc
rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric
wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the
way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top
of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand
back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way.
Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central
handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise.

It behaves as you would expect a motorbike throttle to then...

One of the implications of this is that if the speed control is turned
slightly too far in relation to how fast you are walking, the barrow
shoots ahead, turning the control further *on* - until the barrow leaves
your hand when obviously the throttle closes due to its spring. It's
also uncomfortable to bend your hand back at the wrist to hold the power
on; it would be more comfortable to bend the hand forwards (palm towards
wrist).

You just start with a grip in the hand down position, such that when its
rotated to the right speed, the wrist position is neutral.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:33:12 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:15:49 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

Like a car accelerator pedal then? ;-)

Sorry, that would probably be a bit too abstract. ;-)

You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)

If you consider most motorcycle handlebars have a level of backsweep
then rotating the end of the throttle anticlockwise gives more power /
speed, just in the way turning on most taps might.

But I get from a safety POV, it might be better to have a system where
you might naturally decelerate as you go accelerate, where you have to
positively resist that to meaningly go faster but I think that would
be very uncomfortable to action ITRW.

This would especially be the case on racing bikes where the rider
traditionally sat low to reduce the aerodynamic drag and going faster
mean you could sit even lower without changing your grip and 'sitting
up' to help the braking was also 'intuitive' re the throttle.

Cheers, T i m

On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/04/2021 11:10, NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50
different ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to
getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I
remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've
ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way
round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake
is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left)
across traffic.

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a
motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the
throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered
wheels have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very
narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A
wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get
bogged down.

Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

I rode a moped once.

As you say as it accelerates you tend to accidentally open the trottle.
All lever throttles I have ever come across have 'maximum rabbit' as a
push away from you, as do aircraft throttles AFAIK - IANAP.

Twist grips seem to break this rule universally.



--
€œI know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.€�

ۥ Leo Tolstoy

On 06/04/2021 11:59, Chris Green wrote:
T i m wrote:

I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike
hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake
(both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard
nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the
right)

There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these
on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some
such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time.



Or to avoid patents which is why on Nikon (Nippon Ikon)
cameras you remove the lens by rotating it the opposite way to a
German camera (AFAIK).

On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote:


Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

Well it could mean that as you brake hard your bodies and hands tendancy
is to grip the handlebars harder and rotate the top towards the
direction of travel, thereby cutting the throttle, surely ?.

On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:


You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)


A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?.
This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake.

Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that
the car goes backwards :-)

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:53:44 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:


You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)


A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?.

Yes, I belive it does.

This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake.

As you can with any auto as well (using only one pedal) or relying on
an automatic handbrake?

Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that
the car goes backwards :-)

Like most RC Car throttles (well, probably not with your foot). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:51:19 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote:


Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

Well it could mean that as you brake hard your bodies and hands tendancy
is to grip the handlebars harder and rotate the top towards the
direction of travel, thereby cutting the throttle, surely ?.

Sort of.

I can't remember 'learning' to use a twist grip throttle and the first
one I used was probably the tiller extension on a British Seagull
outboard motor when very young (maybe 8 or so). The std throttle was a
thumb shift on the tiller but if you fitted the ally tube extension
that had a wire hook on the end, it gave you 'remote' control of the
thumb shift and so a twist grip throttle.

After that it would probably have been my own moped.

When braking a conventional motorcycle with handlebar mounted front
brake lever, I think you are right and you might typically help unroll
the throttle as you squeeze the lever between fingers on the lever and
thumb round the and / or heel of your hand on the twist grip.

Cheers, T i m

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
Or to avoid patents which is why on Nikon (Nippon Ikon)
cameras you remove the lens by rotating it the opposite way to a
German camera (AFAIK).

It's more specific. Nikon is one way and Canon is the other (and both are
Japanese companies). I have used both cameras and I honestly couldn't
remember which is which, but looking at my Nikon now, I see that they use
clockwise bayonet turn to unscrew, so Canon must use anti-clockwise bayonet.
My dad's old Yashika used an anti-clockwise *screw thread* which was a real
pain when trying to change lenses in a hurry and the threads were inclined
to get crossed.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:


You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)


A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?.
This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake.

Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that
the car goes backwards :-)

Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three
pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car,
where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes. I have got too used
to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to
apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation:
having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a
constant speed would be very tiring on the foot.


I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that
pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than
others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead
easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000
miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy
about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I
never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-)

That's another "getting used to it" thing: whether reverse is top-left (left
of first) or bottom-right (right of sixth). I always have to think when I
swap between my Pug (top-left) and her Honda (bottom-right). Also the fact
that my car has always allowed me to engage reverse while the car is still
moving very slowly forwards (although obviously you can't let the clutch up
till the car has stopped), whereas Hondas and a lot of other Japanese cars
won't let you engage reverse (even with the clutch down) until the car is
stopped.

On 06/04/2021 11:59, Chris Green wrote:
T i m wrote:

I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike
hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake
(both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard
nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the
right)

There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these
on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some
such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time.

Yebbut was it down for up gear or up? My Honda was up for up gear (I
think), with the "proper" neutral between 1st and 2nd (with an "idiot
light" to show when you were in neutral).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22979049@N07/51098827681/

--
Max Demian

My long dead battery lawnmower with speed control rotated clockwise to go
faster but if it was let go of it just stopped, but then it never went all
that fast in the first place and was always blowing up the speed control
module. That is why its an ex lawnmower.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc
rotates
to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow
with
rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have
anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top
of
it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back
towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking
end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle,
it
rotates clockwise.

Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed.

... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it
anti-clockwise to increase speed.

--
Chris Green
·

On 06/04/2021 11:10, NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50
different ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to
getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I
remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've
ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way
round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake
is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left)
across traffic.

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a
motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the
throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.


I suspect it is because on a motor bike you need to be able to operate
the right hand brake lever. When you apply the brake with your fingers
your thumb will rotate the throttle clockwise and close it, which is
probably what you want. I must remember this the next time a use an
outboard engine.

--
Michael Chare

On 06/04/2021 09:31, NY wrote:

Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc
rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric
wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the
way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top
of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand
back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way.
Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central
handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise.

I used to have a push bike with a twist grip for the (3 speed) gear
change. It was remarked that it appeared to be the opposite way to a
motorbike; to go up a gear you rotated the top away from you.

--
Max Demian

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:35 +0100, "NY" wrote:

snip

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting
a
car.

Maybe you are younger than some, or had more money or were 'put off'
motorbikes by your family?

It was the only way I could use something motorised when I was 16. ;-)

I started learning to drive, in a combination of my mum's car (Renault 6)
and an instructor's car (Honda Civic), as soon as I turned 17. I passed my
test (third attempt) shortly after my 18th birthday in 1981 (I failed the
second (*) time on my 18th - and the examiner commiserated that he wasn't
able to give me a pass certificate for my birthday!). But after that, apart
from driving mum's or dad's cars occasionally when we went on journeys, I
didn't drive much until my last year at university when I bought myself a
car because my final-year hall of residence was not on a bus route and was a
long way from the site where I was based. Until then, I walked between hall
and university, apart from occasional rainy days when I got the bus. I think
the majority of people walked or cycled: a few had hand-me-down cars and a
smaller number had motorbikes (yes, surprising that there were fewer with
motorbikes than cars). But I think I could walk up the very non-PC Blackboy
Hill quicker than my mate's Honda 50 moped could manage it ;-)


(*) I don't really count the first failure because I drew the short straw
and got "Mr Hemlock" who very rarely passed anyone. My instructor said
almost none of his pupils passed with Mr H, whereas roughly the same
proportion passed with all the other examiners. The only person I know who
passed was my next door neighbour who was in her 70s when she had to learn
(or re-learn) to drive after her husband became too ill to drive. Mr H said
"I am very sorry to have to tell you that I cannot find sufficient grounds
to fail you, so I obliged against my better judgement to pass you."
Apparently he was moved every few years from one test centre to another in
the Home Counties because he kept failing far more than the normal quota and
was obnoxious to "the public". I imagine if he kept that up, he would have
been disciplined at an "examiner's examination". On my test he gave me an
ambiguous instruction which I asked him to clarify "do you mean turn left
into X street or Y street" and he accused me of showing off my local
knowledge of street names, and on another occasion when I asked him whether
he would want me to turn left or go straight on at a junction some distance
ahead, so I could get into the correct lane in plenty of time, he blew his
top. When he did eventually tell me, I had to indicate far too late and got
hooted at for pushing in, so I explained *that* was why I'd asked several
hundred yards further back. So that wasn't a realistic fair test.

NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:


You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)


A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?.
This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake.

Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that
the car goes backwards :-)

Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three
pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car,
where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes.

Do let us know when you find one. As far as Im aware they dont exist.

I have got too used
to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to
apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation:
having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a
constant speed would be very tiring on the foot.


I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that
pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than
others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead
easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000
miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy
about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I
never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-)

Why would you bother other than as a €œparty trick€�? Its not good for your
synchromesh.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Max Demian wrote:
On 06/04/2021 09:31, NY wrote:

Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc
rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric
wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the
way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was.

The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top
of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand
back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way.
Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central
handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise.

I used to have a push bike with a twist grip for the (3 speed) gear
change. It was remarked that it appeared to be the opposite way to a
motorbike; to go up a gear you rotated the top away from you.


But it still pulls the cable in the same direction. Its just that a
Sturmey Archer gear and most road bike derailleurs change to a lower gear
as the cable tightens. MTB changers tend to work in the opposite fashion
though.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:59:32 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

T i m wrote:

I remember riding
a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite
arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever
country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike
hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake
(both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard
nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the
right)

There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these
on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some
such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time.

Slight 'moments' when swapping between the two - not as bad as changing
between freewheel and fixed wheel!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:51:19 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote:


Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike.
I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive.

Well it could mean that as you brake hard your bodies and hands tendancy
is to grip the handlebars harder and rotate the top towards the
direction of travel, thereby cutting the throttle, surely ?.

Also, open the grip, roll the throttle shut and that gives plenty of hand to
grip the brake lever. Rolling back moves the fingers away from the lever
then moving the hand foward for the brake could open the throttle with the
'wrong' way. - not good.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 06/04/2021 17:04, Tim+ wrote:
NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:


You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)


A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?.
This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake.

Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that
the car goes backwards :-)

Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three
pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car,
where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes.

Do let us know when you find one. As far as Im aware they dont exist.

I have got too used
to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to
apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation:
having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a
constant speed would be very tiring on the foot.


I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that
pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than
others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead
easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000
miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy
about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I
never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-)

Why would you bother other than as a €œparty trick€�? Its not good for your
synchromesh.

Its not bad for it either if you know how to match speeds

Tim




--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/04/2021 17:04, Tim+ wrote:
NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:


You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press
another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that
doesn't appear to much. ;-)


A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?.
This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake.

Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that
the car goes backwards :-)

Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three
pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car,
where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes.

Do let us know when you find one. As far as Im aware they dont exist.

I have got too used
to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to
apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation:
having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a
constant speed would be very tiring on the foot.


I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that
pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than
others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead
easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000
miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy
about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I
never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-)

Why would you bother other than as a €œparty trick€�? Its not good for your
synchromesh.

Its not bad for it either if you know how to match speeds

If you get it exactly right, I grant you its harmless but youre asking
your synchromesh to do a job it wasnt designed for. Do you always get it
*exactly* right?

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

"NY" wrote in message
...
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

snip

Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different
ones
and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog.

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike.

Me neither and was just a pillion pax just the once.

I went straight from walking to getting a car.

I had a bicycle for years between and still walked a lot too.

I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding a
friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with
the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the
opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic.

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a
motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the
throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels
have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid
tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might
make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:35 +0100, "NY" wrote:

snip

It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that
*everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here)
would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time?

No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting
a
car.

Maybe you are younger than some,

I'm not.

or had more money

My first car was donated by a relo.

or were 'put off' motorbikes by your family?

Nope, none of my family ever considered one.

It was the only way I could use something motorised when I was 16. ;-)

I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes.

Well, same here as I've carried on with cycles as well.

I stopped once I had the car.

Again, pre mopeds at 16, a bike was the only way
to avoid walking to school or getting on the bus.

I did ride the bike to school when it wasn't all that
far away but changed to the bus when the school
was on the other side of the capital city, Canberra.

I had previously used the bus when the school was
on the other side of the state capital, Melbourne.

I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only
one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear
brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was
originally for the LHD market where the back brake
is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling
to turn (left) across traffic.

I'd always imagined the brakes would be the
same way round whatever country you live in?

Dunno, I have never lived in a LHD country.

That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand
brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles).

Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a
motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold
the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds.

Yeah, but you don't do that. You grasp the throttle with you wrist
over the top of the bar slightly and then end up with it parallel.

The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although
the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres,

'Flotation wheels / tyres' I think they sometimes call them.
Daughter had a wood chopper built on a trailer that had
very wide wheels / tyres to minimise the chances of it
getting bogged down on soft ground.

the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre
which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A
wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult
but wouldn't get bogged down.

Sounds like a d-i-y mod coming up. ;-)

Not trivial to do that with that wheel on a wheelbarrow.

On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 04:01:14 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the trolling senile asshole's inevitable troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 03:50:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Me neither

NOBODY talked to you or asked you anything, you obnoxious trolling senile
cretin!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

NY wrote:

But I think I could walk up the very non-PC Blackboy
Hill quicker than my mate's Honda 50 moped could manage it ;-)

I remember having to take the test again, in the 60s, having
upgraded from my dad's old NSU Quickly (there's an oxymoron)
which was a moped, back when that designation meant it had
pedals, to a Honda 50, which was not in that category. Pretty
daft really, since it then meant that I could (and still can)
legally drive any bike; not that I would dare. Two wheels were
for me simply an economic necessity at the time, not a lifestyle
choice.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.