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Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates
to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. One of the implications of this is that if the speed control is turned slightly too far in relation to how fast you are walking, the barrow shoots ahead, turning the control further *on* - until the barrow leaves your hand when obviously the throttle closes due to its spring. It's also uncomfortable to bend your hand back at the wrist to hold the power on; it would be more comfortable to bend the hand forwards (palm towards wrist). |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed. .... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it anti-clockwise to increase speed. -- Chris Green · |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:31:04 +0100, "NY" wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? Yes. I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. Std. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. So the 'normal' way. ;-) Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. Correct (a bit of a strange POV for such things but still correct). ;-) One of the implications of this is that if the speed control is turned slightly too far in relation to how fast you are walking, the barrow shoots ahead, turning the control further *on* - Yup. Watch You've been Framed or Youtube for 'noobs' riding things though fences and sheds. until the barrow leaves your hand when obviously the throttle closes due to its spring. Yup. It's also uncomfortable to bend your hand back at the wrist to hold the power on; it would be more comfortable to bend the hand forwards (palm towards wrist). Except you don't typically do that. You hold the throttle in such a way that you have you wrist at such a point that it keeps it comfortable (especially when cruising at a particular or tight range of speeds). Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:38:24 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
NY wrote: Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed. ... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it anti-clockwise to increase speed. Not just me then where looking at the rotation direction from the middle is a bit 'unusual'? ;-) Now it may well be on an 'electric wheelbarrow' you have two steering arms (reminiscent of typical wheelbarrow handles but not what I took from 'central handlebar axle') and so could be viewed from the inside out? Not having a go at NT, just interested in how others approach things. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:38:24 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
NY wrote: Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. Motorcycle throttles are 'top towards you' to increase speed. ... or as you say, looking at the end of the RH handlebar, you turn it anti-clockwise to increase speed. Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC
wrote: snip Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? Like you (potentially) I have had and been around mopeds / scooters / motorcycle all my life and currently own about 10 (only one on the road atm). I've never been 'a biker' as such, happy to walk, cycle, motorcycle or use the car as they suit, but I would consider myself 'a motorcyclist' as I enjoy working and being on and going places (or nowhere) on them. ;-) Thinking on, the throttle direction rotation question also carries on with outboard motors where you do typically look at it from the open end and more throttle is anticlockwise (even my electric one). ;-). As it is with most taps of course? [1] Cheers, T i m [1] And you still get people who ask 'which way to turn it on' with (conventional) taps? |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
"T i m" wrote in message
... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC wrote: snip Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:35 +0100, "NY" wrote:
snip It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. Maybe you are younger than some, or had more money or were 'put off' motorbikes by your family? It was the only way I could use something motorised when I was 16. ;-) I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. Well, same here as I've carried on with cycles as well. Again, pre mopeds at 16, a bike was the only way to avoid walking to school or getting on the bus. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. Yeah, but you don't do that. You grasp the throttle with you wrist over the top of the bar slightly and then end up with it parallel. The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres, 'Flotation wheels / tyres' I think they sometimes call them. Daughter had a wood chopper built on a trailer that had very wide wheels / tyres to minimise the chances of it getting bogged down on soft ground. the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down. Sounds like a d-i-y mod coming up. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:37:06 +0100, T i m wrote:
I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? Many bicycles with cable brakes can be swapped front/rear right/left in a matter of a minute or so - it's a simple case of unhooking and swapping. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
T i m wrote:
I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake (both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the right) There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time. -- Chris Green · |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:49:20 -0000 (UTC), Scion
wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:37:06 +0100, T i m wrote: I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? Many bicycles with cable brakes can be swapped front/rear right/left in a matter of a minute or so - it's a simple case of unhooking and swapping. Sure. The issue though is *are they* other way round (to what is 'std' here) in other countries? I don't believe they would be. Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 11:10, NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC wrote: snip Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down. Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:59:32 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
T i m wrote: I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake (both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the right) Yup ... and because I never grew up on 'old British iron' I had no muscle memory with the rear brake (particularly) that way round (on the left) and so whilst I could normally ride my Royal Enfield Bullet (350/ 'Madras') pretty safely, I couldn't be 100% sure in an emergency situation and with my daughter / Mrs pillion. I did look into swapping them over but it was easier to sell it and buy something else. There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time. Hehe. I don't believe the foot controls of any conventionally controlled car are reversed, irrespective of what side the steering wheel is are they (except Go carts possibly etc) and so the idea of having a motorcycle foot brake on the right (and the throttle mentally, even if operated by hand as on a motorbike), made more sense. I've had a couple of mopeds and cycles where the rear brake was a 'back pedal' type and found that ok as well as generally would use my right foot to operate it (bringing the right pedal round to the rearwards position before apply the brake). Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:15:49 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote: snip Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. Like a car accelerator pedal then? ;-) Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 09:31, NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. It behaves as you would expect a motorbike throttle to then... One of the implications of this is that if the speed control is turned slightly too far in relation to how fast you are walking, the barrow shoots ahead, turning the control further *on* - until the barrow leaves your hand when obviously the throttle closes due to its spring. It's also uncomfortable to bend your hand back at the wrist to hold the power on; it would be more comfortable to bend the hand forwards (palm towards wrist). You just start with a grip in the hand down position, such that when its rotated to the right speed, the wrist position is neutral. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:33:12 +0100, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:15:49 +0100, Steve Walker wrote: snip Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. Like a car accelerator pedal then? ;-) Sorry, that would probably be a bit too abstract. ;-) You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) If you consider most motorcycle handlebars have a level of backsweep then rotating the end of the throttle anticlockwise gives more power / speed, just in the way turning on most taps might. But I get from a safety POV, it might be better to have a system where you might naturally decelerate as you go accelerate, where you have to positively resist that to meaningly go faster but I think that would be very uncomfortable to action ITRW. This would especially be the case on racing bikes where the rider traditionally sat low to reduce the aerodynamic drag and going faster mean you could sit even lower without changing your grip and 'sitting up' to help the braking was also 'intuitive' re the throttle. Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/04/2021 11:10, NY wrote: "T i m" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC wrote: snip Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down. Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. I rode a moped once. As you say as it accelerates you tend to accidentally open the trottle. All lever throttles I have ever come across have 'maximum rabbit' as a push away from you, as do aircraft throttles AFAIK - IANAP. Twist grips seem to break this rule universally. -- I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives. Leo Tolstoy |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 11:59, Chris Green wrote:
T i m wrote: I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake (both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the right) There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time. Or to avoid patents which is why on Nikon (Nippon Ikon) cameras you remove the lens by rotating it the opposite way to a German camera (AFAIK). |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote:
Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. Well it could mean that as you brake hard your bodies and hands tendancy is to grip the handlebars harder and rotate the top towards the direction of travel, thereby cutting the throttle, surely ?. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote:
You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?. This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake. Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that the car goes backwards :-) |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:53:44 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote: You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?. Yes, I belive it does. This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake. As you can with any auto as well (using only one pedal) or relying on an automatic handbrake? Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that the car goes backwards :-) Like most RC Car throttles (well, probably not with your foot). ;-) Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:51:19 +0100, Andrew
wrote: On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote: Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. Well it could mean that as you brake hard your bodies and hands tendancy is to grip the handlebars harder and rotate the top towards the direction of travel, thereby cutting the throttle, surely ?. Sort of. I can't remember 'learning' to use a twist grip throttle and the first one I used was probably the tiller extension on a British Seagull outboard motor when very young (maybe 8 or so). The std throttle was a thumb shift on the tiller but if you fitted the ally tube extension that had a wire hook on the end, it gave you 'remote' control of the thumb shift and so a twist grip throttle. After that it would probably have been my own moped. When braking a conventional motorcycle with handlebar mounted front brake lever, I think you are right and you might typically help unroll the throttle as you squeeze the lever between fingers on the lever and thumb round the and / or heel of your hand on the twist grip. Cheers, T i m |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
"Andrew" wrote in message
... Or to avoid patents which is why on Nikon (Nippon Ikon) cameras you remove the lens by rotating it the opposite way to a German camera (AFAIK). It's more specific. Nikon is one way and Canon is the other (and both are Japanese companies). I have used both cameras and I honestly couldn't remember which is which, but looking at my Nikon now, I see that they use clockwise bayonet turn to unscrew, so Canon must use anti-clockwise bayonet. My dad's old Yashika used an anti-clockwise *screw thread* which was a real pain when trying to change lenses in a hurry and the threads were inclined to get crossed. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
"Andrew" wrote in message
... On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote: You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?. This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake. Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that the car goes backwards :-) Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car, where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes. I have got too used to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation: having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a constant speed would be very tiring on the foot. I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000 miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-) That's another "getting used to it" thing: whether reverse is top-left (left of first) or bottom-right (right of sixth). I always have to think when I swap between my Pug (top-left) and her Honda (bottom-right). Also the fact that my car has always allowed me to engage reverse while the car is still moving very slowly forwards (although obviously you can't let the clutch up till the car has stopped), whereas Hondas and a lot of other Japanese cars won't let you engage reverse (even with the clutch down) until the car is stopped. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 11:59, Chris Green wrote:
T i m wrote: I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake (both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the right) There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time. Yebbut was it down for up gear or up? My Honda was up for up gear (I think), with the "proper" neutral between 1st and 2nd (with an "idiot light" to show when you were in neutral). https://www.flickr.com/photos/22979049@N07/51098827681/ -- Max Demian |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 11:10, NY wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC wrote: snip Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. I suspect it is because on a motor bike you need to be able to operate the right hand brake lever. When you apply the brake with your fingers your thumb will rotate the throttle clockwise and close it, which is probably what you want. I must remember this the next time a use an outboard engine. -- Michael Chare |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 09:31, NY wrote:
Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. I used to have a push bike with a twist grip for the (3 speed) gear change. It was remarked that it appeared to be the opposite way to a motorbike; to go up a gear you rotated the top away from you. -- Max Demian |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
"T i m" wrote in message
... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:35 +0100, "NY" wrote: snip It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. Maybe you are younger than some, or had more money or were 'put off' motorbikes by your family? It was the only way I could use something motorised when I was 16. ;-) I started learning to drive, in a combination of my mum's car (Renault 6) and an instructor's car (Honda Civic), as soon as I turned 17. I passed my test (third attempt) shortly after my 18th birthday in 1981 (I failed the second (*) time on my 18th - and the examiner commiserated that he wasn't able to give me a pass certificate for my birthday!). But after that, apart from driving mum's or dad's cars occasionally when we went on journeys, I didn't drive much until my last year at university when I bought myself a car because my final-year hall of residence was not on a bus route and was a long way from the site where I was based. Until then, I walked between hall and university, apart from occasional rainy days when I got the bus. I think the majority of people walked or cycled: a few had hand-me-down cars and a smaller number had motorbikes (yes, surprising that there were fewer with motorbikes than cars). But I think I could walk up the very non-PC Blackboy Hill quicker than my mate's Honda 50 moped could manage it ;-) (*) I don't really count the first failure because I drew the short straw and got "Mr Hemlock" who very rarely passed anyone. My instructor said almost none of his pupils passed with Mr H, whereas roughly the same proportion passed with all the other examiners. The only person I know who passed was my next door neighbour who was in her 70s when she had to learn (or re-learn) to drive after her husband became too ill to drive. Mr H said "I am very sorry to have to tell you that I cannot find sufficient grounds to fail you, so I obliged against my better judgement to pass you." Apparently he was moved every few years from one test centre to another in the Home Counties because he kept failing far more than the normal quota and was obnoxious to "the public". I imagine if he kept that up, he would have been disciplined at an "examiner's examination". On my test he gave me an ambiguous instruction which I asked him to clarify "do you mean turn left into X street or Y street" and he accused me of showing off my local knowledge of street names, and on another occasion when I asked him whether he would want me to turn left or go straight on at a junction some distance ahead, so I could get into the correct lane in plenty of time, he blew his top. When he did eventually tell me, I had to indicate far too late and got hooted at for pushing in, so I explained *that* was why I'd asked several hundred yards further back. So that wasn't a realistic fair test. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttlecontol (motorbike etc)
NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message ... On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote: You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?. This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake. Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that the car goes backwards :-) Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car, where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes. Do let us know when you find one. As far as Im aware they dont exist. I have got too used to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation: having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a constant speed would be very tiring on the foot. I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000 miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-) Why would you bother other than as a party trick? Its not good for your synchromesh. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttlecontol (motorbike etc)
Max Demian wrote:
On 06/04/2021 09:31, NY wrote: Is there a convention for which way the handlebar of a motorbike etc rotates to control the throttle? I ask because I have an electric wheelbarrow with rotary throttle and it rotates the opposite way to the way I'd have anticipated, so I wondered what the standard was. The throttle is on the right hand side. I would expect to rotate the top of it away from me to increase speed, and towards me (bending my hand back towards my arm) to reduce speed. But it rotates the opposite way. Looking end-on to the handlebar, from the end towards the central handlebar axle, it rotates clockwise. I used to have a push bike with a twist grip for the (3 speed) gear change. It was remarked that it appeared to be the opposite way to a motorbike; to go up a gear you rotated the top away from you. But it still pulls the cable in the same direction. Its just that a Sturmey Archer gear and most road bike derailleurs change to a lower gear as the cable tightens. MTB changers tend to work in the opposite fashion though. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:59:32 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
T i m wrote: I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Older (but post war) UK motorbikes had the gear lever and rear brake (both foot operated of course) the other way around from the standard nowadays. (Now it's gear lever on the left, rear/foot brake on the right) There was always speculation that the early Japanese bikes had these on the 'wrong' side because they had a reversed photograph or some such to work from when studying the 'bikes of the time. Slight 'moments' when swapping between the two - not as bad as changing between freewheel and fixed wheel! -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:51:19 +0100, Andrew wrote:
On 06/04/2021 12:15, Steve Walker wrote: Although I have never ridden a motorbike, I have tried a friend's trike. I found the direction of throttle control totally counterintuitive. Well it could mean that as you brake hard your bodies and hands tendancy is to grip the handlebars harder and rotate the top towards the direction of travel, thereby cutting the throttle, surely ?. Also, open the grip, roll the throttle shut and that gives plenty of hand to grip the brake lever. Rolling back moves the fingers away from the lever then moving the hand foward for the brake could open the throttle with the 'wrong' way. - not good. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol(motorbike etc)
On 06/04/2021 17:04, Tim+ wrote:
NY wrote: "Andrew" wrote in message ... On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote: You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?. This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake. Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that the car goes backwards :-) Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car, where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes. Do let us know when you find one. As far as Im aware they dont exist. I have got too used to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation: having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a constant speed would be very tiring on the foot. I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000 miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-) Why would you bother other than as a party trick? Its not good for your synchromesh. Its not bad for it either if you know how to match speeds Tim -- I would rather have questions that cannot be answered... ....than to have answers that cannot be questioned Richard Feynman |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttlecontol (motorbike etc)
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/04/2021 17:04, Tim+ wrote: NY wrote: "Andrew" wrote in message ... On 06/04/2021 13:29, T i m wrote: You press a pedal on the floor and the car goes faster and you press another pedal on the floor, the car goes slower and press a third that doesn't appear to much. ;-) A Nissan Leaf allows one pedal to act as 'go' and 'stop' doesn't it ?. This means you can hold the car on a slope without the handbrake. Not sure if you put you foot under it and attempt to lift it that the car goes backwards :-) Having learned to drive on a car with at least two and preferably three pedals, I would find it very difficult to get used to a single-pedal car, where releasing the pedal completely applies the brakes. Do let us know when you find one. As far as Im aware they dont exist. I have got too used to no pedals meaning the car coasts and I have to make a positive action to apply more than token air-resistance/bearing-friction levels of retardation: having to maintain *some* pedal pressure all the time to keep the car at a constant speed would be very tiring on the foot. I defy most drivers to be able *reliably* to change gear without using that pedal that "doesn't appear to [do] much" ;-) Some cars are better than others for doing clutchless gearchanges: my 13-year old Peugeot is dead easy, and I think it always has been fairly easy even from about 20,000 miles when I got it. But my wife's 5-year-old Honda is a lot more fussy about getting the speed very accurately the same - it is less forgiving. I never try a clutchless change while she's in the car ;-) Why would you bother other than as a party trick? Its not good for your synchromesh. Its not bad for it either if you know how to match speeds If you get it exactly right, I grant you its harmless but youre asking your synchromesh to do a job it wasnt designed for. Do you always get it *exactly* right? Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
"NY" wrote in message ... "T i m" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:08:08 +0100, PeterC wrote: snip Yup - I've owned about 8 - 10 bikes and ridden about 45 - 50 different ones and they've all been so, even the ancient iron Hog. It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. Me neither and was just a pillion pax just the once. I went straight from walking to getting a car. I had a bicycle for years between and still walked a lot too. I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres, the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down. |
Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
"T i m" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:35 +0100, "NY" wrote: snip It's funny, I assume (obviously incorrectly in this case) that *everyone* (and certainly in the sort of demographic we find here) would have been involved in a motorbike of some sort at some time? No, I've never ridden a motorbike. I went straight from walking to getting a car. Maybe you are younger than some, I'm not. or had more money My first car was donated by a relo. or were 'put off' motorbikes by your family? Nope, none of my family ever considered one. It was the only way I could use something motorised when I was 16. ;-) I have more experience with bicycles than motorbikes. Well, same here as I've carried on with cycles as well. I stopped once I had the car. Again, pre mopeds at 16, a bike was the only way to avoid walking to school or getting on the bus. I did ride the bike to school when it wasn't all that far away but changed to the bus when the school was on the other side of the capital city, Canberra. I had previously used the bus when the school was on the other side of the state capital, Melbourne. I remember riding a friend's bicycle which was the only one which I've ever encountered with the front and rear brake levers the opposite way round. Maybe it was originally for the LHD market where the back brake is placed so the opposite arm is free when signalling to turn (left) across traffic. I'd always imagined the brakes would be the same way round whatever country you live in? Dunno, I have never lived in a LHD country. That's certainly the case with moped / motorbike hand brakes (not sure about the *very* old motorcycles). Interesting that they standardised on anti-clockwise for opening a motorbike throttle, because bending your hand backwards to hold the throttle open is very uncomfortable for more than a few seconds. Yeah, but you don't do that. You grasp the throttle with you wrist over the top of the bar slightly and then end up with it parallel. The wheelbarrow has the added problem that although the two powered wheels have wide inflated tyres, 'Flotation wheels / tyres' I think they sometimes call them. Daughter had a wood chopper built on a trailer that had very wide wheels / tyres to minimise the chances of it getting bogged down on soft ground. the single rear wheel has a very narrow solid tyre which leaves ruts in a gravel drive or on grass. A wide tyre might make steering a bit more difficult but wouldn't get bogged down. Sounds like a d-i-y mod coming up. ;-) Not trivial to do that with that wheel on a wheelbarrow. |
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Convention for direction of rotation of rotary throttle contol (motorbike etc)
NY wrote:
But I think I could walk up the very non-PC Blackboy Hill quicker than my mate's Honda 50 moped could manage it ;-) I remember having to take the test again, in the 60s, having upgraded from my dad's old NSU Quickly (there's an oxymoron) which was a moped, back when that designation meant it had pedals, to a Honda 50, which was not in that category. Pretty daft really, since it then meant that I could (and still can) legally drive any bike; not that I would dare. Two wheels were for me simply an economic necessity at the time, not a lifestyle choice. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK @ChrisJDixon1 Plant amazing Acers. |
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