Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

I haven't, or I may have been dragged into the company Grand National
sweepstake but I was never interested in watching it or the outcome.

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

Given the supporters of this cruelty can't actually go to the upcoming
'Cheltenham Festival' but will have to watch it on TV, what difference
would it be (to them) if these were 'virtual' horses and races but
(for the gamblers) have 'form' like the teams / players in any
computer game like Football Manger?

And let's face it, 'some people' will gamble on anything [1],
irrespective of the outcome or cost to themselves, their families (and
in this case, innocent creatures).

https://www.animalaid.org.uk/186-rac...illed-in-2019/

http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/#c=3&j=&g=&sd=&ed=&p=1

Cheers, T i m

[1] Again, never actively bet / gambled money on anything, 'it's a
mugs game'.

T i m wrote

Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

Just the once, bet on the Melbourne Cup, not the office sweep,
the day I went for a job interview. Won both. Rain Lover.

reams of your rabid **** flushed where it belongs

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:54:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

04:54 already? Is the day dawning already in Australia, you lonely miserable
senile pest and troll?

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:54:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote

Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

Just the once, bet on the Melbourne Cup, not the office sweep,

Why then and never since? Nothing to do with this I shouldn't think:

https://tinyurl.com/wdf4p5a8

"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of Cliffsofmoher — who
was euthanised in front of the grandstand crowd after the horse broke
its shoulder."

I wonder if that was part of the entertainment for some, like in the
Roman arena days? I mean those who support it must know of the risks?
Maybe they are only interested in the risks to their winnings, I mean,
they are only animals after all and they probably all enjoy their meat
....

reams of your rabid **** flushed where it belongs

Ah, so you must be one of those who don't care about animal
exploitation and unnecessary death if you consider anyone highlighting
it with such terms?

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote

Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

Just the once, bet on the Melbourne Cup, not the office sweep,

And it won.

Why then

Cant remember. Likely it had some coverage in the media at that time.

I used to watch the evening TV news at that time.

and never since?

I don't gamble at all, no betting, don't buy lottery tickets, don't
gamble at casinos, not what the yanks call slot machines.

I know what the odds are.

Nothing to do with this I shouldn't think:

True, nothing to do with that.

https://tinyurl.com/wdf4p5a8

"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of
Cliffsofmoher - who was euthanised in front of the
grandstand crowd after the horse broke its shoulder."

Nope, never aware that had happened. Never watched
any cup and didn't when Rain Lover won either.

I wonder if that was part of the entertainment
for some, like in the Roman arena days?

Nope, its much more of a social event.

At work too, there was always a ****up lunch
organised by the social club on cup day.

All day barby in the runnup to xmas too.
I always managed to get sunburnt at that.

I mean those who support it must know of the risks?

I doubt any of them care.

Maybe they are only interested in the risks to their winnings,

Most don't even care much about that, like I said,
its much more of a social occasion, like xmas.

I mean, they are only animals after all
and they probably all enjoy their meat

Very few here eat horse meat.

reams of your rabid **** flushed where it belongs

Ah, so you must be one of those who don't care
about animal exploitation and unnecessary death

Depends. I do eat meat for every dinner, never bother
with lunch of any kind and only have a massive great
slab of my multigrain bread machine bread for breakfast.

I have had a dog for great slabs of my life and some cats too.

if you consider anyone highlighting it with such terms?

Just you rabid fanatic hypocrite bigots who castrate
animals and make them eat what isnt their natural food.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:08:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



Just you rabid fanatic hypocrite bigots who castrate
animals and make them eat what isnt their natural food.

Think of it positively, his sort is ALWAYS willing to feed the dumbest
trolls around, even a sick asshole like you!

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:08:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote

Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

Just the once, bet on the Melbourne Cup, not the office sweep,

And it won.

Why then

Cant remember. Likely it had some coverage in the media at that time.

So most likely 'marketing'.

I used to watch the evening TV news at that time.

and never since?

I don't gamble at all, no betting, don't buy lottery tickets, don't
gamble at casinos, not what the yanks call slot machines.

Same here.

I know what the odds are.

Quite. I guess things like the lotteries where the money goes to good
causes and assuming you enter on the understanding that's all you care
about ... are a good_thing.

Nothing to do with this I shouldn't think:

True, nothing to do with that.

https://tinyurl.com/wdf4p5a8

"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of
Cliffsofmoher - who was euthanised in front of the
grandstand crowd after the horse broke its shoulder."

Nope, never aware that had happened. Never watched
any cup and didn't when Rain Lover won either.

Ok.

I wonder if that was part of the entertainment
for some, like in the Roman arena days?

Nope, its much more of a social event.

Focused around 'money'.

At work too, there was always a ****up lunch
organised by the social club on cup day.

Strange (when seen from the POV of those who don't support animal
exploitation etc).

All day barby in the runnup to xmas too.

Again, 'strange' (the Xmyth thing). ;-)

I always managed to get sunburnt at that.

Actually, giving your kids a cycle or skates (for xmyth) when it's
summer make much more sense.

I mean those who support it must know of the risks?

I doubt any of them care.

I don't think that's the whole story. I think they (in general) care
about animal well being, it's just that they don't look into it, see
what happens and think about that. I think they would care if they saw
a horse suffering in a field near them, just that they have been
indoctrinated to consider the injury and death of horses whilst being
exploited in racing (for example) as 'collateral damage'.

Maybe they are only interested in the risks to their winnings,

Most don't even care much about that, like I said,
its much more of a social occasion, like xmas.

Well, for those that are their mainly for the social stuff yes. But
were it not for the gambling / money, do you think they would still
run it?

I mean, they are only animals after all
and they probably all enjoy their meat

Very few here eat horse meat.

I didn't mean horse meat, I mean 'meat'. I meant if they ate meat they
*obviously* don't *actually* care about animal welfare.

reams of your rabid **** flushed where it belongs

Ah, so you must be one of those who don't care
about animal exploitation and unnecessary death

Depends.

Ok.

I do eat meat for every dinner,

Ah, so you don't care then. Glad we have that settled (that at best
you are a speciesist).

never bother
with lunch of any kind and only have a massive great
slab of my multigrain bread machine bread for breakfast.

Ok?

I have had a dog for great slabs of my life and some cats too.

OK.

if you consider anyone highlighting it with such terms?

Just you rabid fanatic hypocrite bigots

And why do you think I'm that then?

who castrate
animals

1) I don't.
2) If it's done it's done (in the rescue we get the dogs from) under
good surgical conditions, full anaesthetic and with additional
painkillers and follow-up veterinary attention.
3) It is often done to prevent health issues in dogs in their later
life.
4) It's often done with stray / rescue dogs as a measure to prevent
any more animals being born and needing caring for and to moderate any
aggressive behaviour in male dogs for their own benefit.

Livestock on the other hand are often castrated to make them easier to
handle ... especially on the way to killing them when still very
young.

and make them eat what isnt their natural food.

We don't as it happens (teach you to belive everything the trolls lie
about) but what *is* the 'natural food' of a *domestic* dog OOI?

And I'm asking about the dogs that have lived with man for thousands
of years, have lived off their scraps and evolved a digestive system
different from their wolf ancestors, enabling them to digest starch?

They are not obligate carnivores like cats, they are omnivores like us
and therefore like us they can live long and healthy lives on a
balanced vegan diet. An omnivore doesn't *have* to include any
particular foodstuff in it's diet, it just means that it *can* eat
(survive on) a range of different foods.

Commercial dog foods often contain problems, likely to cause poisoning
or cancer (often from contaminated meat content).

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinar...ls-withdrawals

Cheers, T i m

On 17/03/2021 10:44, T i m wrote:

snip

I didn't mean horse meat, I mean 'meat'. I meant if they ate meat they
*obviously* don't *actually* care about animal welfare.

Only in a fanatical vegans mind. Some of us care about animal welfare
and support bans of certain types of slaughter. You don't and are happy
for no change.

I do eat meat for every dinner,

Ah, so you don't care then. Glad we have that settled (that at best
you are a speciesist).

You eat plants, that makes you a speciesist too.

never bother
with lunch of any kind and only have a massive great
slab of my multigrain bread machine bread for breakfast.

Ok?

I have had a dog for great slabs of my life and some cats too.

OK.

if you consider anyone highlighting it with such terms?

Just you rabid fanatic hypocrite bigots

And why do you think I'm that then?

who castrate
animals

1) I don't.
2) If it's done it's done (in the rescue we get the dogs from) under
good surgical conditions, full anaesthetic and with additional
painkillers and follow-up veterinary attention.

It's done for people like you.

I eat meat, the slaughter is done for me, so that would make it ok in
your eyes too.

If those conditions are good for your dog, then why not support similar
practices for the slaughter of animals?

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote
T i m wrote

Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

Just the once, bet on the Melbourne Cup, not the office sweep,

And it won.

Why then

Cant remember. Likely it had some coverage in the media at that time.

So most likely 'marketing'.

Nope, we don't get that with the cup. There is lots of
speculation about which will win and run races in the
weeks before it like the Caulfield Cup that provide
some stats on which horses are doing well etc.

And lots of speculation about foreign entrys which have
flown in to compete in the cup. It's a major event here.

It always has been with some famous winners like Phar Lap.

I used to watch the evening TV news at that time.

and never since?

I don't gamble at all, no betting, don't buy lottery tickets, don't
gamble at casinos, not what the yanks call slot machines.

Same here.

I know what the odds are.

Quite. I guess things like the lotteries where the money goes
to good causes and assuming you enter on the understanding
that's all you care about ... are a good_thing.

Yeah, its one way of raising money for a good cause.

My grandmother used to routinely send lottery tickets
for birthdays when we were kids. Presumably because
it was easy to do and required no thought. She always
lived a thousand miles or more away, where I was born.

Nothing to do with this I shouldn't think:

True, nothing to do with that.

https://tinyurl.com/wdf4p5a8

"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of
Cliffsofmoher - who was euthanised in front of the
grandstand crowd after the horse broke its shoulder."

Nope, never aware that had happened. Never watched
any cup and didn't when Rain Lover won either.

Ok.

I wonder if that was part of the entertainment
for some, like in the Roman arena days?

Nope, its much more of a social event.

Focused around 'money'.

Not really, its much more of a social event, particularly for the toffs.

At work too, there was always a ****up lunch
organised by the social club on cup day.

Strange (when seen from the POV of those
who don't support animal exploitation etc).

We never had any of those and quite a few were poms.

All day barby in the runnup to xmas too.

Again, 'strange' (the Xmyth thing). ;-)

Its almost universal here with work places.
Not necessarily an all day barby tho.

I always managed to get sunburnt at that.

Actually, giving your kids a cycle or skates (for xmyth)
when it's summer make much more sense.

Yeah and works much better for xmas day too.

I mean those who support it must know of the risks?

I doubt any of them care.

That's overstated, the horse owner obviously does.

I don't think that's the whole story. I think they (in general) care
about animal well being, it's just that they don't look into it, see
what happens and think about that. I think they would care if they
saw a horse suffering in a field near them, just that they have been
indoctrinated to consider the injury and death of horses whilst
being exploited in racing (for example) as 'collateral damage'.

Maybe they are only interested in the risks to their winnings,

Most don't even care much about that, like I said,
its much more of a social occasion, like xmas.

Well, for those that are their mainly for the social
stuff yes. But were it not for the gambling / money,
do you think they would still run it?

Horse racing has always involved gambling. At one
time it was one of the few ways to gamble legally here.

I mean, they are only animals after all
and they probably all enjoy their meat

Very few here eat horse meat.

I didn't mean horse meat, I mean 'meat'. I meant if they ate meat
they *obviously* don't *actually* care about animal welfare.

They have enough of a clue to realise that if they didn't
eat meat the animal would never have had any life at all.

reams of your rabid **** flushed where it belongs

On 17/03/2021 08:08, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:54:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:
T i m wrote

Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

Just the once, bet on the Melbourne Cup, not the office sweep,

Why then and never since? Nothing to do with this I shouldn't think:

https://tinyurl.com/wdf4p5a8

"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of Cliffsofmoher €” who
was euthanised in front of the grandstand crowd after the horse broke
its shoulder."

Oh, Cliffsofmoher is the *horse*! Reminds me of a cartoon showing a
groom running up to a woman: "It's all right; the horse is OK;
unfortunately we had to shoot your husband!"

--
Max Demian

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:51:28 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

snip

"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of Cliffsofmoher — who
was euthanised in front of the grandstand crowd after the horse broke
its shoulder."

Oh, Cliffsofmoher is the *horse*!

They were indeed.

Reminds me of a cartoon showing a
groom running up to a woman: "It's all right; the horse is OK;
unfortunately we had to shoot your husband!"

And that would be funny (as funny goes) because unless the (presumed
husband) jockey was coerced or someway mentally deficient / forced to
ride the horse, it would have been his *choice* to do so.

The horse would have had no such choice of course and further would
have had to be 'broken' [1] to have made it possible in the first
place.

Cheers, T i m

[1] Or whatever term they may have for it these days that tries to
hide the truth of that process.

On 16/03/2021 14:05, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

The meat isn't wasted - it just goes into beef pies or take-away curries.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:16:45 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 16/03/2021 14:05, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

The meat isn't wasted - it just goes into beef pies or take-away curries.

Well, whilst that may be true, it's not really the point. ;-(

We know livestock can and do suffer broken limbs, most would agree
that isn't acceptable and therefore should be even less acceptable
under the name of 'entertainment'.

And ignoring the money involved in those forms of animal exploitation
(racing) it tries to say it prides itself in how it treats the animals
involved, whilst killing them in significant number in the process?

This was highlighted by the recent coverage of the two jockeys being
photographed whilst sitting on the bodes of horses that died whilst in
the process of being trained / exercised and the fact (from someone
high up in the horse racing *industry*) as being 'the last thing they
need' as they are already finding it had to justify what they do.

And even if a horse does make it though it's racing life span, it can
then either look forward to being turned into pet food (after all,
humans only like to eat baby animals) or sent to a rescue and hope
they can fund the funding for it's food, care and veterinary treatment
(that wouldn't be required if it hadn't been bred in the first place).

Take the money out of horse / dog racing and I believe it would stop
overnight.

Cheers, T i m

I went to a meeting of the Arab Horse society at Sandown park once. Those
horses get more good treatment than the wives on the owners it seems from
what I witnessed.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
news
Bet on or been to a horse or greyhound race?

I haven't, or I may have been dragged into the company Grand National
sweepstake but I was never interested in watching it or the outcome.

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

Given the supporters of this cruelty can't actually go to the upcoming
'Cheltenham Festival' but will have to watch it on TV, what difference
would it be (to them) if these were 'virtual' horses and races but
(for the gamblers) have 'form' like the teams / players in any
computer game like Football Manger?

And let's face it, 'some people' will gamble on anything [1],
irrespective of the outcome or cost to themselves, their families (and
in this case, innocent creatures).

https://www.animalaid.org.uk/186-rac...illed-in-2019/

http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/#c=3&j=&g=&sd=&ed=&p=1

Cheers, T i m

[1] Again, never actively bet / gambled money on anything, 'it's a
mugs game'.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:13:57 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I went to a meeting of the Arab Horse society at Sandown park once. Those
horses get more good treatment than the wives on the owners it seems from
what I witnessed.

Well quite, including being ridden till they die of a heart attack or
have to be 'destroyed' because of a broken limb probably. ;-(

It's not all the 'good bits' that is the main issue, or the quantity
of horses / greyhounds that die each year in the name of
'entertainment', it's just one of the things that needs to stop (and
is stopping re dog racing to some degree).

Of course we start first with what is the biggest problem (for them
and us), 'live stock' because it causes the greatest quantity of
problems for both parties (all animals, inc the human ones) and
ironically, is the easiest one to fix by simply not supporting it (by
not buying animal based products).

We both went vegan last January, recently had our 'MOT' / checkup type
blood tests (when I specifically asked for all the vegan / B12 tests)
and they both came back 'normal'.

Our only regret is we didn't do so sooner ... but we like many, needed
our eyes opening to the truth of what actually goes on behind the
scenes and a world that is becoming more aware that 'plant based' is
the only way to go, making all that much easier.

Cheers, T i m

On 17/03/2021 11:37, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:13:57 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

I went to a meeting of the Arab Horse society at Sandown park once. Those
horses get more good treatment than the wives on the owners it seems from
what I witnessed.

Well quite, including being ridden till they die of a heart attack


Would this be the poor wife?

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:29:01 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it;
they don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel
than euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?

As an old MRCVS, with a dread of dobbins :-)

Horses don't do lying down well at all, muscle damage results in sort
order = pain & organ failure = death

They 'can' be treated but they need to be suspended in slings (don't so
lying down - see) and then usually they can't feed normally (can't walk
about - see) so now you've got two problems, oh and then pressure sores
from the slings and now you have three problems, they are flighty beasts
at the best of times and so now you (may) have four problems, not moving
around is likely to give increased risk of colic, and now you have five
problems - did I mention lying down ain't good for them - so consider a
long orthopaedic operation and risk the of anaesthesia (they also have a
habit of deciding to not breathe whilst 'under') and that was only
problems 1a & 1b ...

So on the grounds of humanity (& good welfare) euthanasia is usually the
best option - for dobbin!

Avpx

(who is aware that things have moved on since he had to deal with such
stuff but dobbin is still dobbin)

p.s. I know none of the above is likely to change any 'minds' but hey ...

--
Her attitude to music was purely ballistic - just point your voice at
the end of the verse and go for it. (Maskerade)
Wed 10060 Sep 10:35:01 GMT 1993
10:35:01 up 16:49, 10 users, load average: 4.92, 5.26, 5.26

The Nomad wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:29:01 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it;
they don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel
than euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?

As an old MRCVS, with a dread of dobbins :-)

Horses don't do lying down well at all, muscle damage results in sort
order = pain & organ failure = death

They 'can' be treated but they need to be suspended in slings (don't so
lying down - see) and then usually they can't feed normally (can't walk
about - see) so now you've got two problems, oh and then pressure sores
from the slings and now you have three problems, they are flighty beasts
at the best of times and so now you (may) have four problems, not moving
around is likely to give increased risk of colic, and now you have five
problems - did I mention lying down ain't good for them - so consider a
long orthopaedic operation and risk the of anaesthesia (they also have a
habit of deciding to not breathe whilst 'under') and that was only
problems 1a & 1b ...

So on the grounds of humanity (& good welfare) euthanasia is usually the
best option - for dobbin!

Avpx

(who is aware that things have moved on since he had to deal with such
stuff but dobbin is still dobbin)

p.s. I know none of the above is likely to change any 'minds' but hey ...


This is covered in the canonical Far Side cartoon "Equine medicine".

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhMyigWW4AA00uk.jpg

That's always stuck with me, when it comes to horses.

Paul

On 17/03/2021 11:10, Paul wrote:
The Nomad wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:29:01 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it;
they don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel
than euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?

As an old MRCVS, with a dread of dobbins :-)

Horses don't do lying down well at all, muscle damage results in sort
order = pain & organ failure = death

They 'can' be treated but they need to be suspended in slings (don't
so lying down - see) and then usually they can't feed normally (can't
walk about - see) so now you've got two problems, oh and then pressure
sores from the slings and now you have three problems, they are
flighty beasts at the best of times and so now you (may) have four
problems, not moving around is likely to give increased risk of colic,
and now you have five problems - did I mention lying down ain't good
for them - so consider a long orthopaedic operation and risk the of
anaesthesia (they also have a habit of deciding to not breathe whilst
'under') and that was only problems 1a & 1b ...

So on the grounds of humanity (& good welfare) euthanasia is usually
the best option - for dobbin!

Avpx

(who is aware that things have moved on since he had to deal with such
stuff but dobbin is still dobbin)

p.s. I know none of the above is likely to change any 'minds' but hey ...


This is covered in the canonical Far Side cartoon "Equine medicine".

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhMyigWW4AA00uk.jpg

That's always stuck with me, when it comes to horses.

Â*Â* Paul

See also the Far Side "Horse Hospitals", available on google images.

As the others have said, horses make bad patients, particularly young
and very fit thoroughbreds. I've had a few put to sleep, more for
chronic than acute conditions.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:50:05 GMT, The Nomad
wrote:

snip interesting stuff

So on the grounds of humanity (& good welfare) euthanasia is usually the
best option - for dobbin!

They seem to call it 'being destroyed' in the game. It's like the
trend of calling slaughter houses, 'meat processing plants'.

Avpx

(who is aware that things have moved on since he had to deal with such
stuff but dobbin is still dobbin)

Quite.

p.s. I know none of the above is likely to change any 'minds' but hey ...

And that's the pity. It seems that if you either ... haven't thought
about it, then do, then carry on doing the same things or just don't
think any of it is 'a problem' ... then why would you? ;-(

It's interesting to hear what some try to use as justification for
exploiting and killing animals, little of it ever makes any sense,
other than to them of course. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 17 Mar 2021 10:29:01 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about: horses.

This should be funny .... from the bridge dwelling, horse eating
Goblin ...

1) Horses like to race; that's what they do in the wild.

Bwhahaha .... yeah, what they do is get a pig on their backs and run
and jump hurdles till they die or break a limb, you see it all the
time on the nature programs!

So the activity in
itself is not an unnatural behaviour for Dobbin

No, what you are getting confused with (in your desperate attempt to
justify cruelty and exploitation of animals) is horses having a run
about on their own (with noting on their backs), at their own speed,
in their own time.

although whether particular
features of the sport are cruel (such as the whip, jumping, etc) I don't
know.

Of course you don't (which is *some* truth at least).

2) It takes a while to train a horse not to throw its saddle off or to aaccept
a rider on its back.

So, not a sign to you that doing so isn't *natural* for the horse?

If a horse breaks its leg, then it would need a splint
and plaster immediately.

What, no 3 legged horses out there then?

No time to get used to it and Dobbin, being in pain
anyway, would simply lash around trying to get the plaster off its leg. More
pain and more lashing out.

Yup and especially *bad* if brought about in the name of (human)
'entertainment'.

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it;

See above.

Again, are you saying that no injured horse has eve been 'fixed'?

they
don't make good patients.

I'm sure they don't, as will many prey animals.

Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it.

Of course. Please don't try to confuse me with you. I am already aware
of all this and why I'm a vegan.

Cost doesn't come into it.

What, never?

Anyone here with direct experience of this?

Certainly not you, that's for sure.

Cheers, T i m

On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about: horses.

1) Horses like to race; that's what they do in the wild. So the activity in
itself is not an unnatural behaviour for Dobbin although whether particular
features of the sport are cruel (such as the whip, jumping, etc) I don't
know.

2) It takes a while to train a horse not to throw its saddle off or to aaccept
a rider on its back. If a horse breaks its leg, then it would need a splint
and plaster immediately. No time to get used to it and Dobbin, being in pain
anyway, would simply lash around trying to get the plaster off its leg. More
pain and more lashing out.

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?


I also doubt the financial nous of anyone who thinks it is a matter of
what's 'cost effective' that leads to the euthanisation of horses with
broken legs which, even if the injury meant they never raced again,
would still be worth loads of money at stud.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:30:44 +0000, Robin wrote:

snip

I also doubt the financial nous of anyone who thinks it is a matter of
what's 'cost effective' that leads to the euthanisation of horses with
broken legs which, even if the injury meant they never raced again,
would still be worth loads of money at stud.

But what percentage of all the potentially viable but injured 'stud'
horses ever get that far, compare with the ex winners that managed to
survive intact?

And what percentage of those injured whilst racing that end up being
'destroyed' are geldings or (spayed) mares in any case?

Whatever the answer, I'm sure humanity, especially in 2021 can do
without all of it.

Cheers, T i m

On 17/03/2021 11:30, Robin wrote:
On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about: horses.

1) Horses like to race; that's what they do in the wild. So the
activity in
itself is not an unnatural behaviour for Dobbin although whether
particular
features of the sport are cruel (such as the whip, jumping, etc) I don't
know.

2) It takes a while to train a horse not to throw its saddle off or to
aaccept
a rider on its back. If a horse breaks its leg, then it would need a
splint
and plaster immediately. No time to get used to it and Dobbin, being
in pain
anyway, would simply lash around trying to get the plaster off its
leg. More
pain and more lashing out.

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?


I also doubt the financial nous of anyone who thinks it is a matter of
what's 'cost effective' that leads to the euthanisation of horses with
broken legs which, even if the injury meant they never raced again,
would still be worth loads of money at stud.

Especially if they are geldings

I am sure people who own and breed and race horses know what they are
worth...
...more than you do


--
€œIt is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.€�
Sir Roger Scruton

On 17/03/2021 11:30, Robin wrote:
On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about: horses.

1) Horses like to race; that's what they do in the wild. So the
activity in
itself is not an unnatural behaviour for Dobbin although whether
particular
features of the sport are cruel (such as the whip, jumping, etc) I don't
know.

2) It takes a while to train a horse not to throw its saddle off or to
aaccept
a rider on its back. If a horse breaks its leg, then it would need a
splint
and plaster immediately. No time to get used to it and Dobbin, being
in pain
anyway, would simply lash around trying to get the plaster off its
leg. More
pain and more lashing out.

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?


I also doubt the financial nous of anyone who thinks it is a matter of
what's 'cost effective' that leads to the euthanisation of horses with
broken legs which, even if the injury meant they never raced again,
would still be worth loads of money at stud.


Maybe Findus made a better offer for it.

--
Adam

On 22/03/2021 04:22 pm, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2021 11:30, Robin wrote:
On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
On 16 Mar 2021 at 14:05:46 GMT, T i m wrote:

That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any
horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter,
'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on
making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because
people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(

So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about: horses.

1) Horses like to race; that's what they do in the wild. So the
activity in
itself is not an unnatural behaviour for Dobbin although whether
particular
features of the sport are cruel (such as the whip, jumping, etc) I don't
know.

2) It takes a while to train a horse not to throw its saddle off or
to aaccept
a rider on its back. If a horse breaks its leg, then it would need a
splint
and plaster immediately. No time to get used to it and Dobbin, being
in pain
anyway, would simply lash around trying to get the plaster off its
leg. More
pain and more lashing out.

AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it;
they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Anyone here with direct experience of this?


I also doubt the financial nous of anyone who thinks it is a matter of
what's 'cost effective' that leads to the euthanisation of horses with
broken legs which, even if the injury meant they never raced again,
would still be worth loads of money at stud.


Maybe Findus made a better offer for it.

Or the Tesco butchery department?

On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Well I wonder what the multi million pound horse hospital down the road
does then....

Perhaps its secretly a dogmeat factory

http://www.newmarketequinehospital.com/
--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 17/03/2021 16:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Well I wonder what the multi million pound horse hospital down the road
does then....

Perhaps its secretly a dogmeat factory

http://www.newmarketequinehospital.com/

It won't treat a lot of broken legs. Some leg injuries can be treated,
but there are an awful lot of other things that can go wrong. Colic is
one, sometimes caused by a twisted gut. Bad cases need surgery at ~£5k
with not much better than a 50:50 chance of survival.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:38:19 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

http://www.newmarketequinehospital.com/

It won't treat a lot of broken legs. Some leg injuries can be treated,
but there are an awful lot of other things that can go wrong. Colic is
one, sometimes caused by a twisted gut. Bad cases need surgery at ~£5k
with not much better than a 50:50 chance of survival.

All of which indicates to me the extra 'stuff we put these 'extra (not
here naturally) animals though, that wouldn't happen if they didn't
exist in the first place (to the extra ones, animals still get ill /
injured 'in nature' of course but that is the definition of
'naturally'.

Extra in that most of them are 'man made' (catching / farming /
breeding etc) and so extra to what might be there 'naturally'.

And it's not beyond all levels of imagination to think that at some
point in the future, we won't be doing with animals what we do now,
both because of the ethics and the practical implications (required
resources / waste / animal cruelty etc ... and yes, that includes
pets).

The vegans are just doing it already (and yes, that (unfortunately)
includes 'rescuing' livestock / animals from cruelty / death where
practical / possible and allowing them to live out their natural lives
as naturally and enriched as practical / possible).


Cheers, T i m

p.s. If you were to try to justify any form of 'animal racing' where
the animal has some form of jockey on it's back, maybe it could be any
species that *naturally* carries say it's offspring on it's back, like
monkeys. Or kangaroo racing where the jockey goes in the pouch. ;-)

On 17 Mar 2021 17:09:42 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 17 Mar 2021 at 16:01:17 GMT, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/03/2021 10:29, Tim Streater wrote:
AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they
don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than
euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.

Well I wonder what the multi million pound horse hospital down the road
does then....

Perhaps its secretly a dogmeat factory

http://www.newmarketequinehospital.com/

You mean the joint just outside Newmarket? I always assumed it was doing
research into equine diseases etc BICBW.

So, the Squeaker Goblin said to me earlier:

"So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about:
horses." [1]

Turns out he has faceplanted *again*!.

Mind you, no doubt when you have done it as often as he has with me,
he probably doesn't feel the pain and it certainly can't hurt his
looks (and both might explain why he keeps doing it!). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Strangely though, I never claimed to know a lot about horses.
However, I know enough to be 100% sure they are yet another animal we
artificially breed, exploit and kill (both for their meat and because
they no longer serve our purposes (those include 'for our
entertainment')).

On 17/03/2021 17:52, T i m wrote:

snip

However, I know enough to be 100% sure they are yet another animal we
artificially breed, exploit and kill (both for their meat and because
they no longer serve our purposes (those include 'for our
entertainment')).

A bit like dogs then, how many do you have?