On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â* Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10 petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of
brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html

(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above). However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As well as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with perspex.

First link I came across:
Â* https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanolÂ*Â*Â*Â* G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40%Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Plastic may even tolerate chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol is well known

How odd that it didnt get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
Â*Â*Â*Â* occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze, this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

On 10/03/2021 13:49, Fredxx wrote:


Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze, this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

This is environmental stress cracking. It's not the polymer being
soluble in the solvent. If anything, it could be regarded as the solvent
going into solid solution in the polymer, changing its fracture behaviour.

On 07/03/2021 17:39, Rod Speed wrote:


"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 07:11:39 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 21:59:29 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 04/03/2021 19:06, Rod Speed wrote:


No bugs like an ethanol water mix.

I was going to say that too, then I realised that I don't actually know
what oxidises it to acetic acid. I assume that is mediated by some
biological activity.

AIUI wine is oxidised to acetic acid by bacteria, but above a certain
strength (e.g. sherry or stronger), the bacteria are either killed or
inactivated, I don't know which, so the beverages can be stored without
special precautions to exclude air.

One of the homebrew forums I used had a subsection for making vinegar.

Seems to be a bit harder than you'd imagine. Which supports my personal
experience of never once accidentally making it when making beer and
wine.

Yeah, I havent either. Tho a mate of mine has made a couple of
bad batches of beer where it got infected and was undrinkable.

It certainly happens regularly to "real ale" stored in pubs.

On 10/03/2021 15:19, newshound wrote:
On 10/03/2021 13:49, Fredxx wrote:


Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze, this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

This is environmental stress cracking. It's not the polymer being
soluble in the solvent. If anything, it could be regarded as the solvent
going into solid solution in the polymer, changing its fracture behaviour.

It's not a coincidence that a film of ethanol on acrylic creates cracks
and water and other liquids don't.

I'm going to leave it to you to google *acrylic soluble in ethanol* or
*acrylic soluble in alcohol* and check if the consensus is that acrylic
is partially soluble in ethanol.

I did search for *acrylic "solid solution"* but didn't find any
meaningful hits. Perhaps you can assist?

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10 petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of
brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above). However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As well as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with perspex.

First link I came across:
https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Plastic may even tolerate chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didnt get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to craze,

Ethanol doesnt with perspex.

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

On 10/03/2021 19:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â* Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for
quite some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of
brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was
a bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html

(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As
well as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with perspex.

First link I came across:
Â* https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanolÂ*Â*Â*Â* G - Little or no damage after 30 days of
constant exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40%Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Plastic may even tolerate
chemical for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol is well known

How odd that it didnt get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesnt with perspex.

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

The very link I gave says ethanol does craze acrylic sheet, as do
numerous other sites. You can live in denial and ignorance. What it
shows is you're not the chemist you think you are.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:17:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10 petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of
brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above). However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As well as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with perspex.

First link I came across:
https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Plastic may even tolerate chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didn’t get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to craze,

Ethanol doesn’t with perspex.

I think you'll find that it does.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...by_ethanol.jpg


this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 20:07:01 +0000, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


The very link I gave says ethanol does craze acrylic sheet, as do
numerous other sites. You can live in denial and ignorance. What it
shows is you're not the chemist you think you are.

Has it ever occurred to you that he is a troll, troll-feeding senile idiot?
Or DO you know it, but like most seniles you are so miserable that you just
don't want to care? I suppose it's the latter. BG

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 07/03/2021 17:39, Rod Speed wrote:


"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 07:11:39 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 21:59:29 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 04/03/2021 19:06, Rod Speed wrote:


No bugs like an ethanol water mix.

I was going to say that too, then I realised that I don't actually
know
what oxidises it to acetic acid. I assume that is mediated by some
biological activity.

AIUI wine is oxidised to acetic acid by bacteria, but above a certain
strength (e.g. sherry or stronger), the bacteria are either killed or
inactivated, I don't know which, so the beverages can be stored without
special precautions to exclude air.

One of the homebrew forums I used had a subsection for making vinegar.

Seems to be a bit harder than you'd imagine. Which supports my personal
experience of never once accidentally making it when making beer and
wine.

Yeah, I havent either. Tho a mate of mine has made a couple of
bad batches of beer where it got infected and was undrinkable.

It certainly happens regularly to "real ale" stored in pubs.

How is it stored in pubs where that happens ?

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 15:19, newshound wrote:
On 10/03/2021 13:49, Fredxx wrote:


Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze, this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

This is environmental stress cracking. It's not the polymer being soluble
in the solvent. If anything, it could be regarded as the solvent going
into solid solution in the polymer, changing its fracture behaviour.

It's not a coincidence that a film of ethanol on acrylic creates cracks

Bull**** it does.

and water and other liquids don't.

I'm going to leave it to you to google *acrylic soluble in ethanol* or
*acrylic soluble in alcohol* and check if the consensus is that acrylic is
partially soluble in ethanol.

Science isnt about consensus, its easy to check that silly claim.

I did search for *acrylic "solid solution"* but didn't find any meaningful
hits. Perhaps you can assist?

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 09:48:32 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

Get the **** out of humans-only ngs, you abnormal 86-year-old trolling
senile asshole!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:21:00 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

Jethro_uk wrote

All very well. Meanwhile dedicated home distillers avoid
storing alcohol in plastic, and prefer glass.

But not because the ethanol dissolves the plastic.

Metho is in fact mostly sold in plastic now.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 19:17, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for
quite some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of

brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As well
as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with
perspex.

First link I came across:

https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Plastic may even tolerate chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol is well known

How odd that it didnt get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesnt with perspex.

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

The very link I gave says ethanol does craze acrylic sheet,

No it does not, as I proved with the only relevant quotes from it.

as do numerous other sites. You can live in denial and ignorance.

You are the one doing that with your own link.

What it shows is you're not the chemist you think you are.

You cant even manage to read that table in that link.

"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:17:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of

brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As well
as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with
perspex.

First link I came across:

https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Plastic may even tolerate chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didn't get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesn't with perspex.

I think you'll find that it does.

I know that mine doesn't.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...by_ethanol.jpg

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

How odd that mine doesn't.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:52:30 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

How odd that mine doesn't.

Not odd at all, you ridiculous auto-contradicting senile sociopath!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On 10/03/2021 23:52, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:17:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â* Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for
quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel
pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made
of Â*
brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and
80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify
things for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html

(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As
well as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with
perspex.

First link I came across:

https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanolÂ*Â*Â*Â* G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40%Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* E - 30 days of constant exposure with no
damage.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Plastic may even tolerate
chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didn't get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesn't with perspex.

I think you'll find that it does.

I know that mine doesn't.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...by_ethanol.jpg


this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

How odd that mine doesn't.

Does this mean that all your posts are based on a personal example of one?

You must have been a great chemist on your day. Can't you accept there
are more people claiming that ethanol does craze acrylic than who don't?

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

--
*It's this dirty because I washed it with your wife's knickers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:52:30 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:17:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars. Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made of

brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80% of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As well
as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with
perspex.

First link I came across:

https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no damage.
Plastic may even tolerate chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didn't get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesn't with perspex.

I think you'll find that it does.

I know that mine doesn't.

"Yours"? What would you need reagent-grade ethanol for? Fortifying
your watery beer?


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...by_ethanol.jpg

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

How odd that mine doesn't.

Well, we all know you're a bit "special", Rod.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.


Was very common on many engines in the 70s (particularly small engines
such as lawn-mowers) it is still sold as fuel pipe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201575506495



--
Chris B (News)

On 11/03/2021 17:42, Chris B wrote:
On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Was very common on many engines in the 70s (particularly small engines
such as lawn-mowers) it is still sold as fuel pipe.

Except petrol in those days had very little benzene.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201575506495

I'm intrigued at the plastic and the plasticiser in that pipe. Most
plasticisers are soluble in benzene for instance and you end up with a
hardened, non-flexible hose.

On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

butyl rubber IIRC

It just ages anyway




--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On 11/03/2021 17:42, Chris B wrote:
On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Was very common on many engines in the 70s (particularly small engines
such as lawn-mowers) it is still sold as fuel pipe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201575506495



I remember now. Neoprene

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Helsyn-Ne...-/254094966333

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

butyl rubber IIRC

Not transparent.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/03/2021 17:42, Chris B wrote:
On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Was very common on many engines in the 70s (particularly small engines
such as lawn-mowers) it is still sold as fuel pipe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201575506495



I remember now. Neoprene

Still not transparent. See eBay link.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 11/03/2021 18:22, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/03/2021 17:42, Chris B wrote:
On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Was very common on many engines in the 70s (particularly small engines
such as lawn-mowers) it is still sold as fuel pipe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201575506495



I remember now. Neoprene

Still not transparent. See eBay link.

Tim


neoprene is transparent

https://www.grainger.com/category/pl...eoprene-tubing

It can be dyed and pigmented of course


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Oh, indeed. Lots of plastics come in contact with petrol. Even carbs
changed from brass floats to plastic mouldings. But unlikely to be
perspex. That is a pretty old plastic as things go.

However, plenty plastics go hard and fracture without being near alcohol.
Just with ageing.


--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 23:52, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:17:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars.
Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for
quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel
pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made
of
brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and
some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was
a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80%
of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As
well as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with
perspex.

First link I came across:

https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of
constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no
damage.
Plastic may even tolerate
chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didn't get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesn't with perspex.

I think you'll find that it does.

I know that mine doesn't.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...by_ethanol.jpg

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

How odd that mine doesn't.

Does this mean that all your posts are based on a personal example of one?

You must have been a great chemist on your day. Can't you accept there are
more people claiming that ethanol does craze acrylic than who don't?

Real science isnt about what members of the general public claim
when its so easy to actually test the claim by trying it for yourself.

On 11/03/2021 18:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/03/2021 18:22, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/03/2021 17:42, Chris B wrote:
On 11/03/2021 15:52, Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Was very common on many engines in the 70s (particularly small engines
such as lawn-mowers) it is still sold as fuel pipe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201575506495



I remember now. Neoprene

Still not transparent. See eBay link.

Tim


neoprene is transparent

https://www.grainger.com/category/pl...eoprene-tubing


It can be dyed and pigmented of course


I've never come across transparent neoprene. Norprene is a Saint Gobain
trade name, it is not neoprene but its formulation seems to be a trade
secret.

The usual black colour of most neoprene will come from a carbon black
filler. If I had to guess, I'd expect raw neoprene to be a translucent
pale brown, like natural rubber.

The transparent fuel tube is usually PVC. As others have said, loss of
plasticisers leads to hardening. Nylon and silicone are sometimes used
for fuel, they are naturally colourless, but are both translucent rather
than transparent.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 06:22:42 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Does this mean that all your posts are based on a personal example of one?

You must have been a great chemist on your day. Can't you accept there are
more people claiming that ethanol does craze acrylic than who don't?

Real science isnt about what members of the general public claim
when its so easy to actually test the claim by trying it for yourself.

ROTFLOL Senile nutter!

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 10/03/2021 22:48, Rod Speed wrote:


"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 07/03/2021 17:39, Rod Speed wrote:


"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 07:11:39 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 21:59:29 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 04/03/2021 19:06, Rod Speed wrote:


No bugs like an ethanol water mix.

I was going to say that too, then I realised that I don't actually
know
what oxidises it to acetic acid. I assume that is mediated by some
biological activity.

AIUI wine is oxidised to acetic acid by bacteria, but above a certain
strength (e.g. sherry or stronger), the bacteria are either killed or
inactivated, I don't know which, so the beverages can be stored
without
special precautions to exclude air.

One of the homebrew forums I used had a subsection for making vinegar.

Seems to be a bit harder than you'd imagine. Which supports my personal
experience of never once accidentally making it when making beer and
wine.

Yeah, I havent either. Tho a mate of mine has made a couple of
bad batches of beer where it got infected and was undrinkable.

It certainly happens regularly to "real ale" stored in pubs.

How is it stored in pubs where that happens ?

Real ale is "alive", it still contains live yeast although most of that
is in a layer at the bottom of the barrel in a pub because finings are
added just before it is shipped from the brewery. This makes the yeast
settle over a few hours after delivery so that the served beer is clear.
But the yeast is still working slowly, so carbon dioxide is continuously
generated. This serves as a "cover gas" to keep air (oxygen) away from
the beer. As you will be familiar down under, "keg" beer which has been
pasteurised to kill any remaining yeast is kept with carbon dioxide
supplied from a regulated cylinder into the barrel. This usually
provides the propulsive force to deliver it at the tap. British beer was
traditionally stored in cellars below ground level, although for
practical reasons these days most establishments store it at floor
level. (A very few keep it at bar level and use gravity feed). The
traditional beer pump is a simple lift pump. While this draws air into
the barrel as the beer is removed, that passes through a slightly porous
"spile" which serves as a coarse filter, and relies on the density of
CO2 to keep oxygen away from the beer surface. But, as the barrel
empties more and more air gets drawn in; also the older beer produces
less CO2 so the protection is imperfect. Acid-forming bacteria can also
make their way back from the pump. Good pubs flush or clean the pipes
daily, and disinfect them frequently to avoid this.

In the very old days, beer lines were made from lead. Publicans would
always draw off the beer that had been in the lines overnight before
serving any, but the mean ones would sometimes drink it themselves. This
was a regular source of acute lead poisoning in publicans.

In pubs that keep several different "real ales" some barrels are used
more slowly than others. It's also possible that small amounts of "bad"
bacteria get into the beer at the barrelling stage either air-bourne,
during the filling, or because the barrels are imperfectly sterilised
(usually by steam cleaning).

Well you did ask.

I might detect signs of beer "turning" a few times a year (this does not
make it undrinkable). I only reject a pint once every few years (but I
am fussy about my pubs).

"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:52:30 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:17:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 02:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2021 01:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Custos Custodum" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:05:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:32:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Been quite a few scare stories in the press about how E10
petrol -
coming here later this year - will damage many older cars.
Much
of it
the usual press ********, after all E5 has been around for
quite
some
time, and is known to attack older 'rubber' flexible fuel
pipes.
Which
don't last forever anyway. Much of it generalization, but one
specific
was mentioned.
It attacks the solder used on carburetter floats (those made
of

brass).
Any comments?

I can remember when unleaded petrol was being phased in, and
some
cockwombling fire chief scored weeks of publicity saying it was
a
bad
thing as it was more flammable that real petrol.

Which suggests (as always) the 80:20 law still applies, and 80%
of
reportage is utter ********.

My feeling too. Or the articles I've read try to simplify things
for
us
peasants and invent 'science' that doesn't exist.


This one's a classic of pseudo-scientific misdirection:
https://www.theautochannel.com/news/...r-out-air.html
(Adverts at about 11:20)

One said the ethanol absorbs moisture from air.


It does; it's hygroscopic. But not noticeably so (see above).
However,
you can't separate them again by simple fractional distillation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

And that 'condensation'
will attack lead, zinc, brass, copper and of course steel. As
well
as
rubber and some plastics.

I believe ethanol will dissolve some plastics (e.g., perspex?)

No it doesn't.

The consensus is that it does, but not to a marked effect with
perspex.

First link I came across:

https://www.eplastics.com/blog/chemi...lic-plexiglass

Which says, with
absolute ethanol G - Little or no damage after 30 days of
constant
exposure to the reagent.
ethanol 40% E - 30 days of constant exposure with no
damage.
Plastic may even tolerate
chemical
for years.

I'm genuinely surprised with your reply, crazing of perspex with
ethanol
is well known

How odd that it didn't get a
N - Not recommended for continuous use. Immediate damage may
occur such as severe crazing, cracking, or permeation losses.

and I thought you had a chemical background?

I can read, too.

Do you disagree that where a solvent causes an amorphous polymer to
craze,

Ethanol doesn't with perspex.

I think you'll find that it does.

I know that mine doesn't.

"Yours"? What would you need reagent-grade ethanol for?

Its much less likely to damage what you are cleaning.

Fortifying your watery beer?

Nothing watery about my beer and I distil as well as brew
beer, in a reflux still which produces the best ethanol.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...by_ethanol.jpg

this is because the polymer is principally soluble in it?

Perspex isnt with ethanol.

Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

How odd that mine doesn't.

Well, we all know you're a bit "special", Rod.

Pathetic. The link that Fred waved around also says that it doesn't happen.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 15:00:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Custos Custodum wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't get too fixed on the idea of "dissolving". There
can be no question that ethanol has a detrimental effect on perspex.

I'd be surprised to see Perspex used on a car fuel system. ;-)

My 1963 Mini had a short length of transparent plastic tubing leading
up to the carburettor (not perspex, but I can't remember the details).
Eventually it hardened and fractured.

Oh, indeed. Lots of plastics come in contact with petrol. Even carbs
changed from brass floats to plastic mouldings. But unlikely to be
perspex. That is a pretty old plastic as things go.

However, plenty plastics go hard and fracture without being near alcohol.
Just with ageing.

In spades with leaving them in the sun as I
discovered with some plastic storage boxes.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/03/2021 22:48, Rod Speed wrote:


"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 07/03/2021 17:39, Rod Speed wrote:


"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 07:11:39 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 21:59:29 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 04/03/2021 19:06, Rod Speed wrote:


No bugs like an ethanol water mix.

I was going to say that too, then I realised that I don't actually
know
what oxidises it to acetic acid. I assume that is mediated by some
biological activity.

AIUI wine is oxidised to acetic acid by bacteria, but above a certain
strength (e.g. sherry or stronger), the bacteria are either killed or
inactivated, I don't know which, so the beverages can be stored
without
special precautions to exclude air.

One of the homebrew forums I used had a subsection for making vinegar.

Seems to be a bit harder than you'd imagine. Which supports my
personal
experience of never once accidentally making it when making beer and
wine.

Yeah, I havent either. Tho a mate of mine has made a couple of
bad batches of beer where it got infected and was undrinkable.

It certainly happens regularly to "real ale" stored in pubs.

How is it stored in pubs where that happens ?

Real ale is "alive", it still contains live yeast

So is home brew. Thats why the secondary fermentation
works when its bottled with extra sugar to pressurise the
beer in the bottle.

although most of that is in a layer at the bottom of the barrel in a pub
because finings are added just before it is shipped from the brewery. This
makes the yeast settle over a few hours after delivery so that the served
beer is clear.

But the yeast is still working slowly, so carbon dioxide is continuously
generated. This serves as a "cover gas" to keep air (oxygen) away from the
beer. As you will be familiar down under, "keg" beer which has been
pasteurised to kill any remaining yeast is kept with carbon dioxide
supplied from a regulated cylinder into the barrel. This usually provides
the propulsive force to deliver it at the tap. British beer was
traditionally stored in cellars below ground level, although for practical
reasons these days most establishments store it at floor level. (A very
few keep it at bar level and use gravity feed). The traditional beer pump
is a simple lift pump. While this draws air into the barrel as the beer is
removed, that passes through a slightly porous "spile" which serves as a
coarse filter, and relies on the density of CO2 to keep oxygen away from
the beer surface. But, as the barrel empties more and more air gets drawn
in; also the older beer produces less CO2 so the protection is imperfect.
Acid-forming bacteria can also make their way back from the pump. Good
pubs flush or clean the pipes daily, and disinfect them frequently to
avoid this.

In the very old days, beer lines were made from lead. Publicans would
always draw off the beer that had been in the lines overnight before
serving any, but the mean ones would sometimes drink it themselves. This
was a regular source of acute lead poisoning in publicans.

In pubs that keep several different "real ales" some barrels are used more
slowly than others. It's also possible that small amounts of "bad"
bacteria get into the beer at the barrelling stage either air-bourne,
during the filling, or because the barrels are imperfectly sterilised
(usually by steam cleaning).

Well you did ask.

Yeah, thats what I wanted to know, its in barrels rather than in kegs.

I might detect signs of beer "turning" a few times a year (this does not
make it undrinkable). I only reject a pint once every few years (but I am
fussy about my pubs).

I dont drink in pubs and dont drink commercial beer if I can avoid that.

On 11/03/2021 20:40, Rod Speed wrote:



Well you did ask.

Yeah, thats what I wanted to know, its in barrels rather than in kegs.

Yes. The keg has a single hole in the end face that is positioned at the
top. The pressure fitting that clamps into that has a dip tube to the
bottom, and a gas feed to the top.

Barrels are used on their side, tilted slightly downhill. The tap fits
in the bottom of the lower end face, then the filling and air admittance
hole is in the middle of the "cylindrical" part, diametrically opposite
the tap. This is sealed with a bung about 50mm diameter, then when
serving the bung has a tapered hole about 15mm diameter in it into which
a spile is hammered. If drinking at home by gravity, you loosen the
spile to serve then knock it back in. In a pub, you use the porous spile
once the barrel is tapped. (This may be replaced overnight by the solid
one).


I might detect signs of beer "turning" a few times a year (this does
not make it undrinkable). I only reject a pint once every few years
(but I am fussy about my pubs).

I dont drink in pubs and dont drink commercial beer if I can avoid that.

I used to brew my own, cheaper but more time consuming. Also, less
healthy as you have to check it every day to make sure it's not going off.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 07:31:55 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


In spades with leaving them in the sun as I
discovered with some plastic storage boxes.

Nobody talked to you or asked you anything, you abnormal senile troll!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 07:40:44 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



I don¢t drink in pubs and don¢t drink commercial beer if I can avoid that.

Of COURSE not, you abnormal senile sociopath and troll! LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 11/03/2021 20:40, Rod Speed wrote:



Well you did ask.

Yeah, thats what I wanted to know, its in barrels rather than in kegs.

Yes. The keg has a single hole in the end face that is positioned at the
top. The pressure fitting that clamps into that has a dip tube to the
bottom, and a gas feed to the top.

Barrels are used on their side, tilted slightly downhill. The tap fits in
the bottom of the lower end face, then the filling and air admittance hole
is in the middle of the "cylindrical" part, diametrically opposite the
tap. This is sealed with a bung about 50mm diameter, then when serving the
bung has a tapered hole about 15mm diameter in it into which a spile is
hammered. If drinking at home by gravity, you loosen the spile to serve
then knock it back in. In a pub, you use the porous spile once the barrel
is tapped. (This may be replaced overnight by the solid one).


I might detect signs of beer "turning" a few times a year (this does not
make it undrinkable). I only reject a pint once every few years (but I
am fussy about my pubs).

I dont drink in pubs and dont drink commercial beer if I can avoid
that.

I used to brew my own, cheaper but more time consuming.

Thats very arguable. I brew every year or so, massive brewing
run, I have 17 brewing barrels. Takes a couple of days to get
them all started brewing, then a few days to bottle them all.

It would take considerable time to go and get that much beer
from the supermarket tho certainly less time if I did that all in
one massive supermarket run every year or so.

Also, less healthy as you have to check it every day to make sure it's not
going off.

Thats very arguable too given that I always drink one 750ml
bottle every day, half before dinner and half with dinner.
There is some evidence that that level is good for your health.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 08:51:14 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


That¢s very arguable.

Yep, you "argumentative asshole"! LOL

That¢s very arguable too

Yep, you "argumentative" sick asshole! BG

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: