On 24/02/2021 12:07, alan_m wrote:


Some people seem to prefer
to spread the cost of their winter energy bills over the year.


Especially when home energy use over the Christmas/New Year period can
be exceptionally high even for winter with more people at home more of
the time, so an exceptionally big monthly bill would arrive just when
funds are low. (I can just about remember when planning for Christmas
included extra shillings in the jar for the meter.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
Theo wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they
are easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how
long you usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.

If only there was a device that could read the meter and phone in the
readings for you? Then you would never get an estimated bill. You could
even integrate that device into the meter - very smart!

True. Until installing that meter prevents you moving supplier. As was
once the case. Can all suppliers read a smart meter remotely now? If so,
I'll think about getting one.

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:48:37 +0000, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:

snip

Admittedly she is an 'old dear', not a market trader buying stock.

And that's the thing isn't it. Many will often 'shop about' for
consumables, going to one shop for some stuff and another for others
(we don't, we CBA) and certainly when buying bigger things, like cars
and houses.

She
is aware of the sense of fixing the deal - however, it's all the
questions about current consumption (which I'm helping) that is
flummoxing her.

As it would me / us because we aren't interested (as in a hobby or
interest) them so don't log / track them.

We know that now.

snip

This is someone who studies the daily mail and knows all about the lives
of the rich and famous, but is lost when managing her own.

;-)

My Mum (also 90+) still has her 'marbles' and was mostly managing her
own finances after Dad died but we help her our when she asks and are
gradually moving her stuff online to make it easier all round (without
giving her (and she doesn't want) online access herself). ;-)

Those priorities went some time ago, and we are now a support bubble,
covid or not.

We still haven't done anything about moving from our 'std' duel-fuel
tariff and I couldn't even tell you who it's with or what we are
paying (other than it's likely more than we could, if we were bothered
to do something about it). But it's discussions / stories like these
(and others re smart-meters etc) that leave us with the feeling that
we might be happy to pay the extra for not having the bother.

After all, someone has to fund the rate tarts or we would all be in
the same position eh? ;-)

Now, if there was a tariff that didn't contribute to the FIT theft ...

Cheers, T i m

p.s. A mate used to often get the calls re saving money on is
utilities, phone or broadband contracts and he use to tell them he's
more than happy to pay what he was. Given his annual saving might only
be the same as his flying cost per hour, you can see why. ;-)

Similar to the DG cold calls offering a free holiday, and which of
these destinations would you choose, or if you could have n free DG
windows ... and me saying 'none'.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:21:56 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 24/02/2021 12:07, alan_m wrote:


Some people seem to prefer
to spread the cost of their winter energy bills over the year.


Especially when home energy use over the Christmas/New Year period can
be exceptionally high even for winter with more people at home more of
the time, so an exceptionally big monthly bill would arrive just when
funds are low.

Be isn't that likely only the case for those who were going to work
and now don't have 'those' bills, like rail / bus fares, fuel or
buying expensive food / coffee 'out' when working from home?

Obviously anyone impacted financially because they have lost their
jobs are another issue.

If you are pensioners then the chances are you are still living
'cheaper' than you were when driving to visit family, treating them /
kids to stuff etc?

We would probably put 20 quids worth of petrol in the car every couple
of weeks but that last time I added any fuel was probably last year!

(I can just about remember when planning for Christmas
included extra shillings in the jar for the meter.)

I can remember doing that at my grandparents, never at any of our
houses (and daughter is now on pre-pay meters in her rented flat).

My problem being mostly at home is eBay ... but the excuse being that
with the home automation and PIR controlled lights, we may end up
saving money (assuming we live long enough). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 24/02/2021 13:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Theo wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they
are easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how
long you usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.

If only there was a device that could read the meter and phone in the
readings for you? Then you would never get an estimated bill. You could
even integrate that device into the meter - very smart!

True. Until installing that meter prevents you moving supplier. As was
once the case. Can all suppliers read a smart meter remotely now? If so,
I'll think about getting one.


I am not aware of a smart meter ever stopping a consumer switching to
another supplier. It was true that the new supplier might not be able to
use it as a smart meter. The odds of that were vastly reduced with
SMETS2 meters now fitted.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 24/02/2021 15:01, Robin wrote:
On 24/02/2021 13:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Theo wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they
are easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how
long you usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.

If only there was a device that could read the meter and phone in the
readings for you? Then you would never get an estimated bill. You could
even integrate that device into the meter - very smart!

True. Until installing that meter prevents you moving supplier. As was
once the case. Can all suppliers read a smart meter remotely now? If so,
I'll think about getting one.


I am not aware of aÂ* smart meter ever stopping a consumer switching to
another supplier. It was true that the new supplier might not be able to
use it as a smart meter.Â* The odds of that were vastly reduced with
SMETS2 meters now fitted.


But certain tarriffs made it difficult the other way, like
users of Economy 10 (are there still any of them?).

Robin wrote:
I am not aware of a smart meter ever stopping a consumer switching to
another supplier. It was true that the new supplier might not be able to
use it as a smart meter. The odds of that were vastly reduced with
SMETS2 meters now fitted.

Symbio as mentioned were, until recently, not members of the DCC. That
means that, having got a smart meter installed by the previous supplier
because the meter was in a very awkward place, I still had to submit monthly
readings. Unfortunately the smart meter desktop unit couldn't
provide the Economy 7 readings needed, so I still had to climb to the
awkward place to read the actual meter.

Symbio faced Ofgem sanctions for not joining the DCC, so now they have. I
don't know if that means they support smart meters properly. They're saying
customers can request a smart meter from Q1 2021, but that could be out of
date.

Theo

On 24/02/2021 13:51, T i m wrote:

My problem being mostly at home is eBay ... but the excuse being that
with the home automation and PIR controlled lights, we may end up
saving money (assuming we live long enough). ;-)

What a strange statement to make from someone who doesn't know who his
energy supplier is, what his energy usage is, or what prices he's
paying, and who CBA to switch suppliers; there's no logic to such an
attitude.

--
Spike

In article , Theo
writes
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they are
easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how long you
usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.

If only there was a device that could read the meter and phone in the
readings for you? Then you would never get an estimated bill. You could even
integrate that device into the meter - very smart!

Theo

Probably take two attempts to get that right.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Theo wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they
are easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how
long you usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.

If only there was a device that could read the meter and phone in the
readings for you? Then you would never get an estimated bill. You could
even integrate that device into the meter - very smart!

True. Until installing that meter prevents you moving supplier. As was
once the case. Can all suppliers read a smart meter remotely now? If so,
I'll think about getting one.

Yes. Smets 2
--
bert

In article , alan_m
writes
On 24/02/2021 09:01, Jeff Layman wrote:

I appreciate the "small" suppliers usually offer the cheapest tariff,
but I was surprised when looking at the info on one website that
often, because of recent caps and reductions, the standard variable
may actually be cheaper than a lot of the fixed tariffs from the same
energy supplier.

This is often the case in a rising price market. The contract for 12
months fixed price factors in some of the expected price rises but with
some companies factoring in price increases before other companies
there is often a good pre-rise deals to be had.

The more competent supply companies take out long term wholesale
contracts.

I've just taken out another 12 month fixed contract which is around 7%
more expensive than I paid last year but because of the timing when I
committed to it is around 3% cheaper than what is available now, 1
month later. I expect that in April prices will again rise in line with
what has been agreed with energy regulator.


What tends to happen in the supply market is that start ups want to
attract customers and they do so by getting themselves to the top of the
price comparison charts with the cheapest rates. Then they are swamped
with new customers and their customer services can't cope.
Their wholesale supply contracts are then inadequate and their prices go
up but they are committed to supply contracts with their customers and
they go broke.
The moral of this story is to be wary of taking the top of the list on
comparison sites.
--
bert

On 25/02/2021 22:03, bert wrote:
In article , alan_m
writes
On 24/02/2021 09:01, Jeff Layman wrote:

I appreciate the "small" suppliers usually offer the cheapest tariff,
but I was surprised when looking at the info on one website that
often,Â* because of recent caps and reductions, the standard variable
mayÂ* actually be cheaper than a lot of the fixed tariffs from the
same energyÂ* supplier.

This is often the case in a rising price market. The contract for 12
months fixed price factors in some of the expected price rises but
with some companies factoring in price increases before other
companies there is often a good pre-rise deals to be had.

The more competent supply companies take out long term wholesale contracts.

I've just taken out another 12 month fixed contract which is around 7%
more expensive than I paid last year but because of the timing when I
committed to it is around 3% cheaper than what is available now, 1
month later. I expect that in April prices will again rise in line
with what has been agreed with energy regulator.


What tends to happen in the supply market is that start ups want to
attract customers and they do so by getting themselves to the top of the
price comparison charts with the cheapest rates. Then they are swamped
with new customers and their customer services can't cope.
Their wholesale supply contracts are then inadequate and their prices go
up but they are committed to supply contracts with their customers and
they go broke.
The moral of this story is to be wary of taking the top of the list on
comparison sites.

Is there any risk for the customer though? My parents recently had this
happen, but prices cannot be increased during a fixed price deal and if
the company go bust, the customer is assigned to another company, but
can choose to move to another one if they prefer. I don't know if that
is universal, but it was certainly the case for my parents.

On 25/02/2021 22:58, Steve Walker wrote:

Is there any risk for the customer though? My parents recently had this
happen, but prices cannot be increased during a fixed price deal and if
the company go bust, the customer is assigned to another company, but
can choose to move to another one if they prefer. I don't know if that
is universal, but it was certainly the case for my parents.

That is the way it works. The regulator will automatically transfer all
business to a new supplier with the option that you can change without
penalty within 40(?) days. It's up to the new supplier to refund any
credit you may have built up but equally no debits are forgotten - all
of it is transferred across.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Steve Walker wrote in
:

Is there any risk for the customer though? My parents recently had
this happen, but prices cannot be increased during a fixed price deal
and if the company go bust, the customer is assigned to another
company, but can choose to move to another one if they prefer. I don't
know if that is universal, but it was certainly the case for my
parents.

I recall quite a few reports of the failed energy companies being slow to
reconcile credit balances causing problems with subsequent switches and
customers stuck with Ofgem's deemed equivalent tariff providers that were
actually less favourable until it was all resolved. (From recollection of
reliable news source reports but a search is failing to find examples right
now).

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
That is the way it works. The regulator will automatically transfer all
business to a new supplier with the option that you can change without
penalty within 40(?) days. It's up to the new supplier to refund any
credit you may have built up but equally no debits are forgotten - all
of it is transferred across.

This happened to me. Took quite a bit of time to get the refund - over a
year. Bet they'd have been quicker collecting any debt.

--
*Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/02/2021 16:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
That is the way it works. The regulator will automatically transfer all
business to a new supplier with the option that you can change without
penalty within 40(?) days. It's up to the new supplier to refund any
credit you may have built up but equally no debits are forgotten - all
of it is transferred across.

This happened to me. Took quite a bit of time to get the refund - over a
year. Bet they'd have been quicker collecting any debt.


One good reason to have a bill (paper or on-line) for your own records
rather than just relying on the DD amount which you suggested was adequate.

I believe that after a few of the early energy supply company failures,
where some had some poor record keeping, the regulator has seriously
tightened up the checking of existing companies and the vetting of new
companies.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 26/02/2021 16:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
That is the way it works. The regulator will automatically transfer
all business to a new supplier with the option that you can change
without penalty within 40(?) days. It's up to the new supplier to
refund any credit you may have built up but equally no debits are
forgotten - all of it is transferred across.

This happened to me. Took quite a bit of time to get the refund - over
a year. Bet they'd have been quicker collecting any debt.


One good reason to have a bill (paper or on-line) for your own records
rather than just relying on the DD amount which you suggested was
adequate.

Eh? There was no question of what was owed. Just the time taken to pay
out. No type of bill would have made any difference to that.

I believe that after a few of the early energy supply company failures,
where some had some poor record keeping, the regulator has seriously
tightened up the checking of existing companies and the vetting of new
companies.

--
*Black holes are where God divided by zero *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

alan_m wrote:
One good reason to have a bill (paper or on-line) for your own records
rather than just relying on the DD amount which you suggested was adequate.

I believe that after a few of the early energy supply company failures,
where some had some poor record keeping, the regulator has seriously
tightened up the checking of existing companies and the vetting of new
companies.

Do all energy companies send you an actual bill (on paper or email), or are
there any that say 'we sent you a bill by secure message, you can login to
your account to read it'? When the website shuts down the moment they go
bankrupt and you can't see your balance or meter readings.

Theo

On 26/02/2021 13:38, Peter Burke wrote:
Steve Walker wrote in
:

Is there any risk for the customer though? My parents recently had
this happen, but prices cannot be increased during a fixed price deal
and if the company go bust, the customer is assigned to another
company, but can choose to move to another one if they prefer. I don't
know if that is universal, but it was certainly the case for my
parents.

I recall quite a few reports of the failed energy companies being slow to
reconcile credit balances causing problems with subsequent switches and
customers stuck with Ofgem's deemed equivalent tariff providers that were
actually less favourable until it was all resolved. (From recollection of
reliable news source reports but a search is failing to find examples right
now).






It's their business model. Offer cheap rates, but make you use DD's
which then allow them to collect more money per year than you need to
pay for usage. This means they have your money in their accounts before
they pay their wholesale suppliers and extra as a free loan. This means
the cheap rates that you thought you were getting are not quite such a
bargain.
Quarterly credit accounts mean you have their energy befre you pay for
what you used and no more.

On 27/02/2021 14:43, Andrew wrote:
On 26/02/2021 13:38, Peter Burke wrote:

It's their business model. Offer cheap rates, but make you use DD's
which then allow them to collect more money per year than you need to
pay for usage. This means they have your money in their accounts before
they pay their wholesale suppliers and extra as a free loan.

A loan that I would have got only pence in interest!

The cost of quarterly billing is already built into the higher priced deals.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk