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Default switching electricity supplier without internet / smartmeter install

Today's task.

Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.

Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).

Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.

I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.

Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?

Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.

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On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:07:03 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Today's task.

Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.

Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).

Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.

I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.

Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?

Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


Try Symbio Energy.
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On 23/02/2021 11:07, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Today's task.


Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).


Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.


I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.


Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?


Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


Try Avro Energy, they don't mention smart meters in their T&Cs.

Phone
0330 0885 754
0800 6800 795

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On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:33:32 +0000, Spike
wrote:

On 23/02/2021 11:07, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Today's task.


Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).


Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.


I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.


Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?


Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


Try Avro Energy, they don't mention smart meters in their T&Cs.

Phone
0330 0885 754
0800 6800 795

I've been with them for 4 years (even after searching alternatives
each year). You have to ask them about what new tariff they have for
next year, don't just accept their change to standard tariff.
Confirmed that they don't do smart meters yet, but have been warned by
whoever it is that's responsible for smart meter roll out.
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On Tuesday, 23 February 2021 at 12:49:17 UTC, Davidm wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:33:32 +0000, Spike
wrote:
On 23/02/2021 11:07, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Today's task.


Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).


Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.


I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.


Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?


Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


Try Avro Energy, they don't mention smart meters in their T&Cs.

Phone
0330 0885 754
0800 6800 795

I've been with them for 4 years (even after searching alternatives
each year). You have to ask them about what new tariff they have for
next year, don't just accept their change to standard tariff.
Confirmed that they don't do smart meters yet, but have been warned by
whoever it is that's responsible for smart meter roll out.


Just as an aside to this discussion regards Smart meters. We booked an appointment to have my mothers meters converted to Smart ones as throughout the pandemic because of shielding I have not been able to read her meters and she continues to get estimated bills. On the day the engineer rang me to get instructions to access the flat. In the discussion regards the location of the meters which are electricity in an external box by the front door and gas in an external box at the back of the flat, he pointed out that the meters had to be within a certain distance of each other to communicate. He seemed 99% certain the distance would be to great although he had a meter to test communication and he would give it a go. I asked him if he could at least fit one meter but apparently if you have dual fuel you have to have both replaced. As my mother is 94 housebound and unable to walk, rather than go through a whole load of disruption when it was highly likely not result in an installation, I cancelled the appointment. So what happens now if companies insist on best tariffs for smart meter installs if you cannot have a smart meter through no fault of your own?

Richard


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On 23/02/2021 11:26, jon wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:07:03 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Today's task.

Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.

Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).

Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.

I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.

Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?

Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


Try Symbio Energy.

+1

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Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/02/2021 11:26, jon wrote:
Try Symbio Energy.

+1


Do they offer paper billing?

It's all very well to switch over the phone rather than email, but someone
without internet is going to need a paper bill. Some of the smaller
providers don't offer them.

Theo
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On 23/02/2021 16:24, Theo wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/02/2021 11:26, jon wrote:
Try Symbio Energy.

+1


Do they offer paper billing?

It's all very well to switch over the phone rather than email, but someone
without internet is going to need a paper bill. Some of the smaller
providers don't offer them.


Do any of the decently priced ones offer paper billing any more?

ISTR having dual fuel online billing and paying by DD were preconditions
for getting the best rates nearly a decade ago.

Too bad there is no mains gas in our village.

Checking electricity tariffs is incredibly tedious since the suppliers
all go out of their way to obfuscate the true price at every turn.

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On 23/02/2021 12:49, Davidm wrote:

I've been with them for 4 years (even after searching alternatives
each year). You have to ask them about what new tariff they have for
next year, don't just accept their change to standard tariff.


Just request a new quote on-line to see their latest offer.

They seem to introduce a new 1 year fixed price tariff each month and
when prices are falling the new contracts can be cheaper than the one
you are on. As Avro have no penalties for early termination of a
contract I swapped to one of their cheaper deals mid contract. I've just
started my 3rd contract with them. Strangely Avro are not being shown
for me in the cheap energy club list nor can I update my tariff
information on that site as my Avro tariff (and some previous tariffs)
are not listed.
They are however paperless billing and during this lockdown customer
service is a bit slow with replying to questions.
They also require a DD in advance and the DD is a fixed amount every
month, based on the annual usage data you give them. They require a
meter reading each month - in my case supply the meter reading by the
9th of the month and my on-line bill will show this amount, usually by
the 12th of the month. I have missed a few readings when on holiday
etc. and the bill is estimated for that month.


Confirmed that they don't do smart meters yet, but have been warned by
whoever it is that's responsible for smart meter roll out.


They have been forced to join the smart meter scheme but having one is
not a condition of having a contract with them.

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alan_m wrote:

Strangely Avro are not being shown for me in the cheap energy club list


They're in the results for me, have you selected "green" in your
preferences? Because they show as "not green".


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In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Today's task.


Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).


Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.


I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.


Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?


Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


I use Flipper. You pay an annual fee for the service, but they do
absolutely everything for you. Look for a better deal every month, and do
everything needed to swap you including setting up a DD with your bank.
Only snag I could see is you have to submit meter readings every month. It
might be possible to do this with a phone call, though.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
alan_m wrote:


Strangely Avro are not being shown for me in the cheap energy club list


They're in the results for me, have you selected "green" in your
preferences? Because they show as "not green".


Just who is going to be the best deal depends on area and how much power
you use?

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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Dave Plowman wrote:

Just who is going to be the best deal depends on area and how much power
you use?


Sure, but the MSE club shows me options from £26/year more expensive
than I'm paying all the way to £476/year more expensive, and arvo are #3
in the list for me, at "only" £38/year more expensive.

Weirdly, this time it was actually cheapest for me to roll-off the end
of my previous contract onto UtilityPoint's default tariff ...

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Martin Brown wrote in
:

Checking electricity tariffs is incredibly tedious since the suppliers
all go out of their way to obfuscate the true price at every turn.


Can I suggest an Energylinx search? I found them years ago and they have
always been very up-front on avail deals, choice of Elec, Gas or both is on
the front page. They used to show all deals by default but you now need to
make a selection on the results page to show non-commission results. Full
tariff info via buttons on the results page:

https://www.energylinx.co.uk/
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On 23/02/2021 19:21, Andy Burns wrote:
alan_m wrote:

Strangely Avro are not being shown for me in the cheap energy club list


They're in the results for me, have you selected "green" in your
preferences?Â* Because they show as "not green".


I don't see any option for filtering on "green". My options are for all
tarrifs, all suppliers, dual fuel, no preferences for customer service
rating or warm home etc.

Cookies have been cleared and it's the same with 2 different browsers.

Even when i select to check deals from my current supplier I get "We
were unable to find any tariffs of this type. You can amend your filters
to reveal more tariffs."

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On 23/02/2021 21:18, alan_m wrote:
On 23/02/2021 19:21, Andy Burns wrote:
alan_m wrote:

Strangely Avro are not being shown for me in the cheap energy club list


They're in the results for me, have you selected "green" in your
preferences?Â* Because they show as "not green".


I don't see any option for filtering on "green".Â* My options are for all
tarrifs, all suppliers, dual fuel, no preferences for customer service
rating or warm home etc.

Cookies have been cleared and it's the same with 2 different browsers.

Even when i select to check deals from my current supplier I get "We
were unable to find any tariffs of this type. You can amend your filters
to reveal more tariffs."


Update:
If I pretend I'm with another supplier then Avro comes second in the
savings table BUT the Avro deal is actually cheaper (by £1 per year)
than the one at the top of the list which is being promoted by the cheap
energy club.

I actually committed to a new contract with Avro in January and starting
a few days ago and have tariffs cheaper than currently on offer.

--
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On 23/02/2021 19:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Today's task.


Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).


Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.


I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.


Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?


Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


I use Flipper. You pay an annual fee for the service, but they do
absolutely everything for you. Look for a better deal every month, and do
everything needed to swap you including setting up a DD with your bank.
Only snag I could see is you have to submit meter readings every month. It
might be possible to do this with a phone call, though.


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
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On 23/02/2021 16:24, Theo wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/02/2021 11:26, jon wrote:
Try Symbio Energy.

+1


Do they offer paper billing?

It's all very well to switch over the phone rather than email, but someone
without internet is going to need a paper bill. Some of the smaller
providers don't offer them.

Theo


There is normally a £5 per paper bill but th charge can be waived for
elderly and vulnerable customers. More details in T&C, which also says
to contact them.


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Michael Chare wrote:
There is normally a £5 per paper bill but th charge can be waived for
elderly and vulnerable customers. More details in T&C, which also says
to contact them.


That's good. They seem to be a fairly minimalist outfit (which is fine by
me). Billing is a bit unconventional but works out at the end (they
estimate for the month ahead and then adjust the bill for the next month
based on readings).

They are quite keen on monthly readings. I'm assuming they can be provided
by phone, but would the OAP in this case be happy to read their meter every
month? I have on occasion forgotten (when they didn't send a reminder) and
the bill was estimated, so maybe it's OK not to provide every month?

Been with them a couple of years and they remain far and away the cheapest
tariff.

Theo
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In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 23/02/2021 19:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Today's task.


Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).


Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.


I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.


Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?


Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


I use Flipper. You pay an annual fee for the service, but they do
absolutely everything for you. Look for a better deal every month, and do
everything needed to swap you including setting up a DD with your bank.
Only snag I could see is you have to submit meter readings every month. It
might be possible to do this with a phone call, though.


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.


Dunno. A bill is a bit pointless since you're paying monthly by DD.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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In article ,
Theo wrote:
They are quite keen on monthly readings. I'm assuming they can be
provided by phone, but would the OAP in this case be happy to read their
meter every month? I have on occasion forgotten (when they didn't send
a reminder) and the bill was estimated, so maybe it's OK not to provide
every month?


That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they are
easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how long you
usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 24/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.


Dunno. A bill is a bit pointless since you're paying monthly by DD.


Isn't the biggest complaint about energy companies that the DD doesn't
truly represent the usage? Few companies vary the DD each month based on
a meter reading. For some customers it may not even be the preferred
method of billing with low bills in the summer and much higher bills in
winter, with some wanting to even out the charges. Many companies take
a fixed amount each month which can lead at the end of a period/year to
the customer being in credit or debit by a large amount. Without a bill
it is impossible to even establish if the DD is realistic, especially if
energy usage changes year to year as a result of home insulation
improvements or illness where often more heat is required for someone
who is not active.


--
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On 23/02/2021 11:07, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Today's task.

Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Doing it over the internet is just as bad. The whole system is designed
to be as impenetrable as possible, with vast numbers of tariffs from
each supplier just confusing the issue. The interesting thing about
"switching" sites is that you can feed in exactly the same parameters
for your current usage, and what you want, and they'll often come up
with different tariffs from different suppliers as the "best" fit for
you. Maybe they have arrangements with the suppliers to push certain
tariffs? They will no doubt be the cheaper tariffs, but not necessarily
the cheapest from a different switching website.

I appreciate the "small" suppliers usually offer the cheapest tariff,
but I was surprised when looking at the info on one website that often,
because of recent caps and reductions, the standard variable may
actually be cheaper than a lot of the fixed tariffs from the same energy
supplier. For example, have a look at the section headed "EON Tariffs
compared: Which is the cheapest?" at
https://selectra.co.uk/energy/providers/eon/tariffs or "EDF Energy
tariffs compared: Which is the cheapest?" at
https://selectra.co.uk/energy/providers/edf-energy/tariffs.

I have no doubt this will change from April when the increase is
applied, but if that website is accurate, sometimes things may not be as
clear as has been supposed.

Sticking point, all the fix rate deals from the current supplier require
a smartmeter fitted - which she doesn't want (scared of because of the
negative press).

Se we have to go shopping elsewhere. I'm bringing my laptop and may end
up being a proxy to the deals, running an email address account for her.

I really shouldn't have to. Covid and all.

Is there a switching specialist out there for this market?

Thinking, many internet-less folks will be in the same boat, and paying
full rate on standard tariffs.


See above. It may not be as bleak as assumed.

I asked a month or two ago what tariffs use a smart meter reading and
bill you by DD *exactly* for the amount you have used, not for a monthly
fixed amount which usually exceeds what is being used. I believe there
are some suppliers such as Bristol Energy which do this. Has anybody got
any experience of these suppliers?

--

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alan_m wrote:
On 24/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.


Dunno. A bill is a bit pointless since you're paying monthly by DD.


Isn't the biggest complaint about energy companies that the DD doesn't
truly represent the usage? Few companies vary the DD each month based on
a meter reading. For some customers it may not even be the preferred
method of billing with low bills in the summer and much higher bills in
winter, with some wanting to even out the charges. Many companies take
a fixed amount each month which can lead at the end of a period/year to
the customer being in credit or debit by a large amount. Without a bill
it is impossible to even establish if the DD is realistic, especially if
energy usage changes year to year as a result of home insulation
improvements or illness where often more heat is required for someone
who is not active.

DD doesn't have to be a fixed amount, though the energy companies
might make you think so. It would be perfectly feasible to pay the
exact amount each month.

--
Chris Green
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On 24/02/2021 00:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Theo wrote:
They are quite keen on monthly readings. I'm assuming they can be
provided by phone, but would the OAP in this case be happy to read their
meter every month? I have on occasion forgotten (when they didn't send
a reminder) and the bill was estimated, so maybe it's OK not to provide
every month?


That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they are
easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how long you
usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.


Thanks folks.

It's looking like she'll have to get a smartmeter fitted, and I'll have
to run emails for her just to do the tariff switch. We will insist on
paper billing though.

She (90+, hearing issues) has written a letter to the current supplier,
and asked why they just can't switch her to their advertised cheapest
rates without "asking stupid questions".

We will see what comes out of that.

--
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On 24/02/2021 09:20, Chris Green wrote:
alan_m wrote:
On 24/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.

Dunno. A bill is a bit pointless since you're paying monthly by DD.


Isn't the biggest complaint about energy companies that the DD doesn't
truly represent the usage? Few companies vary the DD each month based on
a meter reading. For some customers it may not even be the preferred
method of billing with low bills in the summer and much higher bills in
winter, with some wanting to even out the charges. Many companies take
a fixed amount each month which can lead at the end of a period/year to
the customer being in credit or debit by a large amount. Without a bill
it is impossible to even establish if the DD is realistic, especially if
energy usage changes year to year as a result of home insulation
improvements or illness where often more heat is required for someone
who is not active.

DD doesn't have to be a fixed amount, though the energy companies
might make you think so. It would be perfectly feasible to pay the
exact amount each month.


That has certainly been one of the payment options on occasions where I
have switched. I prefer to even it out by a fixed payment through the
year though - although I often do have to kick back attempts during the
winter months, by them, to raise the payment - and it has always come
out very close to the right figure by the end of the year.

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On 24/02/2021 10:11, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 24/02/2021 00:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Theo wrote:
They are quite keen on monthly readings.Â* I'm assuming they can be
provided by phone, but would the OAP in this case be happy to read their
meter every month?Â* I have on occasion forgotten (when they didn't send
a reminder) and the bill was estimated, so maybe it's OK not to provide
every month?


That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they are
easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how long you
usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.


Thanks folks.

It's looking like she'll have to get a smartmeter fitted, and I'll have
to run emails for her just to do the tariff switch. We will insist on
paper billing though.

She (90+, hearing issues) has written a letter to the current supplier,
and asked why they just can't switch her to their advertised cheapest
rates without "asking stupid questions".


I can understand her wish for independence but suspect it'd be cheaper
to have an online account where you print and post the bills.

And just in case you have not spotted it, some tariffs exclude
telephone support - though whether they'd enforce that for a
nonagenarian is another matter.

It's one small example of where an heir-and-a-spare may prove to have
been one of the sensible investments I never made



--
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On 24/02/2021 09:01, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 23/02/2021 11:07, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Today's task.

Getting a pensioner off her standard rate tariff, doing it over the
phone. She tried, and got quickly flustered and annoyed.


Doing it over the internet is just as bad. The whole system is designed
to be as impenetrable as possible, with vast numbers of tariffs from
each supplier just confusing the issue. The interesting thing about
"switching" sites is that you can feed in exactly the same parameters
for your current usage, and what you want, and they'll often come up
with different tariffs from different suppliers as the "best" fit for
you. Maybe they have arrangements with the suppliers to push certain
tariffs?


They do.

They will no doubt be the cheaper tariffs, but not necessarily
the cheapest from a different switching website.

I appreciate the "small" suppliers usually offer the cheapest tariff,
but I was surprised when looking at the info on one website that often,
because of recent caps and reductions, the standard variable may
actually be cheaper than a lot of the fixed tariffs from the same energy
supplier. For example, have a look at the section headed "EON Tariffs
compared: Which is the cheapest?" at
https://selectra.co.uk/energy/providers/eon/tariffs or "EDF Energy
tariffs compared: Which is the cheapest?" at
https://selectra.co.uk/energy/providers/edf-energy/tariffs.


Thanks for that. That website is quite interesting, and yes, standard
variable for some is not the most expensive! Closer to the "green"
tariffs or those with additional added gizmos (Nest etc).

However, for her - we need to come off her particular standard rate.
It's expensive.


I asked a month or two ago what tariffs use a smart meter reading and
bill you by DD *exactly* for the amount you have used, not for a monthly
fixed amount which usually exceeds what is being used.


Their explanation is that collecting the fixed agreed amount provides a
buffer to avoid customers getting into debt if otherwise failing to pay
a whole outstanding amount. Of course, they want free money as well.

I believe there
are some suppliers such as Bristol Energy which do this. Has anybody got
any experience of these suppliers?



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On 24/02/2021 09:20, Chris Green wrote:
alan_m wrote:
On 24/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.

Dunno. A bill is a bit pointless since you're paying monthly by DD.


Isn't the biggest complaint about energy companies that the DD doesn't
truly represent the usage? Few companies vary the DD each month based on
a meter reading. For some customers it may not even be the preferred
method of billing with low bills in the summer and much higher bills in
winter, with some wanting to even out the charges. Many companies take
a fixed amount each month which can lead at the end of a period/year to
the customer being in credit or debit by a large amount. Without a bill
it is impossible to even establish if the DD is realistic, especially if
energy usage changes year to year as a result of home insulation
improvements or illness where often more heat is required for someone
who is not active.

DD doesn't have to be a fixed amount, though the energy companies
might make you think so. It would be perfectly feasible to pay the
exact amount each month.


But combine that with paper bills and the supplier has to print and post
a bill every month - and then wait before taking payment - in order to
meet the DD scheme rules. I very much doubt that comes with anything
like the best tariff.

--
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In article ,
alan_m wrote:
Isn't the biggest complaint about energy companies that the DD doesn't
truly represent the usage? Few companies vary the DD each month based on
a meter reading.


With Flipper, the last few suppliers I've had do. Seems the sensible way
to do it if you want to keep your own involvement to the minimum. To me,
it would seem easier for the supplier to keep costs to a minimum and pass
those on - unlike a fixed monthly payment.

I'd be happy to get a smart meter fitted too - to save having to do
monthly readings. If there is now a truly universal one that can send
readings to all suppliers.

--
*Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
That has certainly been one of the payment options on occasions where I
have switched. I prefer to even it out by a fixed payment through the
year though - although I often do have to kick back attempts during the
winter months, by them, to raise the payment - and it has always come
out very close to the right figure by the end of the year.


Having had fixed payments in the past, you are relying on your provider to
get the sums right so you don't end up lending them money unnecessarily.
Or getting a nasty shock by owing them more than they said at some point.

In the case in question, the lady likely pays quarterly, so is used to the
bills varying by time of year.

--
*I got a job at a bakery because I kneaded dough.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
Robin wrote:
I can understand her wish for independence but suspect it'd be cheaper
to have an online account where you print and post the bills.


What if she doesn't already have the means of going online and the ability
to use such hardware? Someone who doesn't is unlikely to want to learn how
to at a public terminal, like in a library, etc.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Their explanation is that collecting the fixed agreed amount provides a
buffer to avoid customers getting into debt if otherwise failing to pay
a whole outstanding amount. Of course, they want free money as well.


Quite - if she pays quarterly at the moment she'll be used to the bills
varying.

--
*To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 24/02/2021 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
I can understand her wish for independence but suspect it'd be cheaper
to have an online account where you print and post the bills.


What if she doesn't already have the means of going online and the ability
to use such hardware? Someone who doesn't is unlikely to want to learn how
to at a public terminal, like in a library, etc.


I had envisaged the OP would do whatever needed to be done online. I am
sorry that was not an obvious assumption.

--
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On 24/02/2021 10:11, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

She (90+, hearing issues) has written a letter to the current supplier,
and asked why they just can't switch her to their advertised cheapest
rates without "asking stupid questions".


What stupid questions?


It's up to the customer to select the contract and it may depend on on
having a pre-payment or economy 7 meter and/or only having paperless
billing. With the latter are the company to assume (incorrectly) that
the customer has internet access and the ability to manage their
contract on-line.

What is their cheapest rate - it all depends on what the customer wants.
Some companies have a competitive variable rate and a dearer fixed rate
BUT in a rising price market the fixed for 12/24 month deal may work out
cheaper.

Some companies need to know how you want to pay, some offer no choice.

For older customers questions such as warm home discounts come in to play.

If a company doesn't ask these "stupid" questions how do you think their
crystal ball works?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk


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On 24/02/2021 09:20, Chris Green wrote:
alan_m wrote:
On 24/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Isn't the problem that the OAP needs a paper bill. As some suppliers are
now paperless how does flipper stop switching to suppliers who don't
offer a paper bill.

Dunno. A bill is a bit pointless since you're paying monthly by DD.


Isn't the biggest complaint about energy companies that the DD doesn't
truly represent the usage? Few companies vary the DD each month based on
a meter reading. For some customers it may not even be the preferred
method of billing with low bills in the summer and much higher bills in
winter, with some wanting to even out the charges. Many companies take
a fixed amount each month which can lead at the end of a period/year to
the customer being in credit or debit by a large amount. Without a bill
it is impossible to even establish if the DD is realistic, especially if
energy usage changes year to year as a result of home insulation
improvements or illness where often more heat is required for someone
who is not active.

DD doesn't have to be a fixed amount, though the energy companies
might make you think so. It would be perfectly feasible to pay the
exact amount each month.


I've had both types of contract with fixed DD and variable DD but many
companies don't offer the latter. With automatic switching by a third
party the type of DD may change each switch. Some people seem to prefer
to spread the cost of their winter energy bills over the year.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
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On 24/02/2021 09:01, Jeff Layman wrote:

I appreciate the "small" suppliers usually offer the cheapest tariff,
but I was surprised when looking at the info on one website that often,
because of recent caps and reductions, the standard variable may
actually be cheaper than a lot of the fixed tariffs from the same energy
supplier.


This is often the case in a rising price market. The contract for 12
months fixed price factors in some of the expected price rises but with
some companies factoring in price increases before other companies there
is often a good pre-rise deals to be had.


I've just taken out another 12 month fixed contract which is around 7%
more expensive than I paid last year but because of the timing when I
committed to it is around 3% cheaper than what is available now, 1 month
later. I expect that in April prices will again rise in line with what
has been agreed with energy regulator.


--
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On 24/02/2021 11:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In the case in question, the lady likely pays quarterly


Which also limits the choice of supplier

--
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On 24/02/2021 12:01, alan_m wrote:
On 24/02/2021 10:11, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

She (90+, hearing issues) has written a letter to the current
supplier, and asked why they just can't switch her to their advertised
cheapest rates without "asking stupid questions".


What stupid questions?




Her opinion, not mine


It's up to the customer to select the contract and it may depend on on
having a pre-payment or economy 7 meter and/or only having paperless
billing. With the latter are the company to assume (incorrectly) that
the customer has internet access and the ability to manage their
contract on-line.

What is their cheapest rate - it all depends on what the customer wants.
Some companies have a competitive variable rate and a dearer fixed rate
BUT in a rising price market the fixed for 12/24 month deal may work out
cheaper.


Admittedly she is an 'old dear', not a market trader buying stock. She
is aware of the sense of fixing the deal - however, it's all the
questions about current consumption (which I'm helping) that is
flummoxing her. We know that now.

She does not qualify for 'staywarm' assistance, so to suppliers she just
looks like another customer.

This is someone who studies the daily mail and knows all about the lives
of the rich and famous, but is lost when managing her own.

Those priorities went some time ago, and we are now a support bubble,
covid or not.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
That could well be a problem. Not all meters are situated where they are
easy to read for an old person. And phoning them in - given how long you
usually have to wait to get through - a PITA.


If only there was a device that could read the meter and phone in the
readings for you? Then you would never get an estimated bill. You could even
integrate that device into the meter - very smart!

Theo

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