We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R


--
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--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On 3 Dec 2020 16:22:22 GMT, David wrote:

We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

I mean, it's not like you *have* to go out there, unlike trying to do
some work in a cold workshop and *needing* some heat to be able to
function properly?

We were having a meal in a pub garden a while back and it was funny
watching the smokers who had come out for a fix, pressing the time
delay switches on the IR heaters under the big umbrellas but having to
do so several times before getting fed up and going back in again. ;-)

snip

Cheers, T i m

On 03/12/2020 16:48, T i m wrote:

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

Why shouldn't he if he can afford it? Why are you always trying to
reduce people's free choices?


We were having a meal in a pub garden a while back and it was funny
watching the smokers who had come out for a fix, pressing the time
delay switches on the IR heaters under the big umbrellas but having to
do so several times before getting fed up and going back in again.

Funny? Self-righteous smug git!

Bill

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 01:42:32 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:48, T i m wrote:

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

Why shouldn't he if he can afford it?

Unfortunately the answer involves not being selfish so you wouldn't
understand it.

snip further trolling

Cheers, T i m

On 04/12/2020 18:03, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 01:42:32 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:48, T i m wrote:

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

Why shouldn't he if he can afford it?

Unfortunately the answer involves not being selfish so you wouldn't
understand it.

Resorts to ad hominem attack because he has no argument. Typical.

Bill

On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 05:32:18 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 04/12/2020 18:03, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 01:42:32 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:48, T i m wrote:

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

Why shouldn't he if he can afford it?

Unfortunately the answer involves not being selfish so you wouldn't
understand it.

Resorts to ad hominem attack because he has no argument. Typical.


Just because you don't understand something (and I point it out to
you), doesn't mean it's any more an 'attack' than you calling me a
Marxist or whatever?

There are loads of reasons why people shouldn't do things, even if
there are legal but like I said, you wouldn't understand or accept
them for the reasons *you* have already stated.

https://ibb.co/nk46k96

'Except yours' of course.

Cheers, T i m

I understand there are some seats with heaters inside. These tend to be the
ones that hang from a frame and look a bit like an egg with a bit cut out
where one sits. Not sure how efficient that idea is, but I guess it keeps
your back and bum warm!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
news
On 3 Dec 2020 16:22:22 GMT, David wrote:

We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

I mean, it's not like you *have* to go out there, unlike trying to do
some work in a cold workshop and *needing* some heat to be able to
function properly?

We were having a meal in a pub garden a while back and it was funny
watching the smokers who had come out for a fix, pressing the time
delay switches on the IR heaters under the big umbrellas but having to
do so several times before getting fed up and going back in again. ;-)

snip

Cheers, T i m

On 03/12/2020 16:48:56, T i m wrote:
On 3 Dec 2020 16:22:22 GMT, David wrote:

We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.

My advice would be 'don't' weg ... put a coat on as it's 'outdoors'
and you shouldn't be wasting energy trying to heat anything out there?

How do you the OP isn't on a green tariff?

Are you? Don't bother answering if you're not.

On 03/12/2020 16:22:22, David wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

For a patio area you can purchase natural gas versions. I read an
article that also says many freestanding ones can be jetted for NG.

I have no idea what the rules are with flexible pipes. I'm sure one can
be permanently installed too.

On Thursday, 3 December 2020 at 16:22:28 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R

all those things are grossly inefficient


NT

On 03/12/2020 19:13, Nick Cat wrote:
On Thursday, 3 December 2020 at 16:22:28 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R

all those things are grossly inefficient


NT

Ditto 'bi-folds'. One of the most stupid ideas the building
industry has come up with.

On 03/12/2020 16:22, David wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R


Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Next doors had a gas patio heater, after several windy nights, the
climate got its revenge.

Still, save the planet by watching titchy pictures on your phone, not HD
on your t\v, lets go back to 640x480

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55164410

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:26:57 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Next doors had a gas patio heater, after several windy nights, the
climate got its revenge.

;-)

Still, save the planet by watching titchy pictures on your phone, not HD
on your t\v,

If I hold my phone out in front of me, even at arms length the picture
is bigger than our 'main' TV (and it's not a big lounge). ;-)

lets go back to 640x480

For a good few years the TV in the bedroom was a very small (like 9")
Panasonic mains / 12V CRT jobby and that had a lovely picture (as it
should with all 625 lines in such a small space). ;-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55164410

It's funny, I can easier 'forget' I'm watching an old black and white
film on a good set than deal with some juddery panning or poor lip
sync on a HD blockbuster on a bad one.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
For a good few years the TV in the bedroom was a very small (like 9")
Panasonic mains / 12V CRT jobby and that had a lovely picture (as it
should with all 625 lines in such a small space). ;-)

Usually an optical illusion. Small high quality CRTs are extremely
expensive (and rare)

Magnify it up to the same size as a larger domestic screen and you'll see
what I mean.

--
*I finally got my head together, now my body is falling apart.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 16:19:57 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
For a good few years the TV in the bedroom was a very small (like 9")
Panasonic mains / 12V CRT jobby and that had a lovely picture (as it
should with all 625 lines in such a small space). ;-)

Usually an optical illusion. Small high quality CRTs are extremely
expensive (and rare)

Magnify it up to the same size as a larger domestic screen and you'll see
what I mean.

Oh, sure, but that was my point, because all that data was compressed
into a smaller space, it gave a very good picture. Yes, I guess if you
expanded it up it wouldn't look so good. Or are you saying the smaller
screen *didn't* have all the same data as a bigger screen?

Same with SD / HD. Our 'main' TV is only 22" (TFT) or summat and so SD
is fine. If I watch SD on the 40" TV we were given it doesn't look as
good and so then HD actually makes a difference.

Cheers, T i m

On 03/12/2020 21:26, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Next doors had a gas patio heater, after several windy nights, the
climate got its revenge.

Still, save the planet by watching titchy pictures on your phone, not HD
on your t\v, lets go back to 640x480

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55164410

What a load of arse

Bill

On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill

On 04/12/2020 01:43, williamwright wrote:
On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill
Nor yours, FWIW (unless you're an alias of the OP). The difference is
that I was polite and made a positive suggestion.
(No reply required)

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:58:33 +0000, wrote:

On 04/12/2020 01:43, williamwright wrote:
On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill
Nor yours, FWIW (unless you're an alias of the OP). The difference is
that I was polite and made a positive suggestion.
(No reply required)

Basically Bills view on the world is that if you can afford it, and
presumably it's not actually illegal, he / anyone should be allowed to
do it, no matter how much it might impact anyone / thing else.

Cheers, T i m

On Friday, 4 December 2020 at 18:05:57 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:58:33 +0000, wrote:

On 04/12/2020 01:43, williamwright wrote:
On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill
Nor yours, FWIW (unless you're an alias of the OP). The difference is
that I was polite and made a positive suggestion.
(No reply required)
Basically Bills view on the world is that if you can afford it, and
presumably it's not actually illegal, he / anyone should be allowed to
do it, no matter how much it might impact anyone / thing else.

Cheers, T i m

He is.

On 04/12/2020 18:05:55, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:58:33 +0000, wrote:

On 04/12/2020 01:43, williamwright wrote:
On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill
Nor yours, FWIW (unless you're an alias of the OP). The difference is
that I was polite and made a positive suggestion.
(No reply required)

Basically Bills view on the world is that if you can afford it, and
presumably it's not actually illegal, he / anyone should be allowed to
do it, no matter how much it might impact anyone / thing else.

Just think of all that energy he can burn from weering renewable
clothes, like leather shoes, rather than buying plastic ones that damage
the environment.

Now remind us, how many litres of oil make 1kg of plastic?

On 04/12/2020 18:05, T i m wrote:

Basically Bills view on the world is that if you can afford it, and
presumably it's not actually illegal, he / anyone should be allowed to
do it, no matter how much it might impact anyone / thing else.

That's more-or-less correct. That's how the world works. Basically, if
it's legal you're allowed to do it. Them that tries to tell you that you
can't are just poking their nose in where it isn't wanted, so they can
bugger off.

Bill

On 04/12/2020 13:58, wrote:
On 04/12/2020 01:43, williamwright wrote:
On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill
Nor yours, FWIW (unless you're an alias of the OP). The difference is
that I was polite and made a positive suggestion.
(No reply required)

You weren't polite because your suggestion was intrinsically rude: you
said he should change his lifestyle to suit your mindset. The only
reasonable response to stuff like that is "Bugger off!"

Bill

On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 05:35:19 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 04/12/2020 13:58, wrote:
On 04/12/2020 01:43, williamwright wrote:
On 03/12/2020 19:28, wrote:

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

Bugger off! It's none of your business.

Bill
Nor yours, FWIW (unless you're an alias of the OP). The difference is
that I was polite and made a positive suggestion.
(No reply required)

You weren't polite because your suggestion was intrinsically rude: you
said he should change his lifestyle to suit your mindset.

The OP invited suggestion and not doing something is a valid
suggestion here.

The only
reasonable response to stuff like that is "Bugger off!"

Only to someone who doesn't have a full complement of emotions and
understanding of the bigger picture.

Have you ever heard the term 'Overconsumption' and do you have a clue
what it might mean?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:28:04 +0000, nothanks wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:22, David wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices
for things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for
1.5 kW wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look
remarkably like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in
bathrooms, but I suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat
onto the body instead of trying to warm the whole room. Just more
modern technology in the heat source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure
that will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

For all those replying that we should wear a coat, woolly jumper, etc. as
if we haven't considered this, please assume that we have considered this
and have decided that for our requirements some additional heat is a
better option.

We also have central heating, which we use to keep the house at a
comfortable temperature for us.
We could go without heating (done that in my childhood), or turn it right
down and wear outdoor clothing indoors.
We prefer to be comfortable.

Telling us just to put a coat on is not helpful in the context of this
question.

Cheers



Dave R


--
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--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 5 Dec 2020 14:42:12 GMT, David wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:28:04 +0000, nothanks wrote:

snip

Please consider wearing a hat and coat instead. We all waste far too
much energy without adding to the waste with more of these ridiculous
things.

For all those replying that we should wear a coat, woolly jumper, etc. as
if we haven't considered this, please assume that we have considered this
and have decided that for our requirements some additional heat is a
better option.

You *believe* might be a 'better option' and for those concerned. I'm
guessing only time will tell.

We also have central heating, which we use to keep the house at a
comfortable temperature for us.

Good?

We could go without heating (done that in my childhood),

Why would you do that, unless you typically leave the windows open in
attempt to get heat into the garden etc? ;-)

or turn it right
down and wear outdoor clothing indoors.

If the insulation on the house is that bad and depending on your
disposable income, that might be a good choice?

We prefer to be comfortable.

As do most people, however, there are limits to that.

Telling us just to put a coat on is not helpful in the context of this
question.

It's not helpful because it isn't what you wanted to hear, but it is
good for aspects that you obviously don't rate above the assumed
outcome of this project.

Cheers, T i m

David wrote:

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

That seems expensive, a 1200W one from Screwfix is £19.99.

--
Chris Green
·

On 03/12/2020 20:12:08, Chris Green wrote:
David wrote:

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

That seems expensive, a 1200W one from Screwfix is £19.99.

But the Screwfix one is only to IPX4

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 20:26:51 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 03/12/2020 20:12:08, Chris Green wrote:
David wrote:

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices
for things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for
1.5 kW wall mounted strips.

That seems expensive, a 1200W one from Screwfix is £19.99.

But the Screwfix one is only to IPX4

From a random and brief Internet search:

"To ensure a level 4 protection against a liquid element, water is sprayed
from all directions towards the device for 5 minutes. If the device
resists, it is IPX4 certified. So we can say that it resists water jets
(or splashing water)."

Given that the proposed site is fully sheltered from water by a plastic
roof as far as I can tell IPX4 protection is more than adequate.

Oh, and thanks to Chris G for the pointer.

Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 4:22:28 PM UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R


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These type of heaters are very common on the continent in pavement cafes but they remind me of an old Vauxhall car I had where the heater would roast your left foot while the right foot froze. Streuth we accepted some dire cars in days gone by

On 05/12/2020 12:42, fred wrote:
On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 4:22:28 PM UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R


--
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--
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


These type of heaters are very common on the continent in pavement cafes but they remind me of an old Vauxhall car I had where the heater would roast your left foot while the right foot froze. Streuth we accepted some dire cars in days gone by


That applies to all cars. The footwell outlet from the heater is going
to blow hot air on the left foot, and your front passengers left foot,
because of the location of the heater.

On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 3:45:57 PM UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 05/12/2020 12:42, fred wrote:
On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 4:22:28 PM UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda..

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


These type of heaters are very common on the continent in pavement cafes but they remind me of an old Vauxhall car I had where the heater would roast your left foot while the right foot froze. Streuth we accepted some dire cars in days gone by

That applies to all cars. The footwell outlet from the heater is going
to blow hot air on the left foot, and your front passengers left foot,
because of the location of the heater.


Have you been in a modern car ???? My car as 4 individually independent control zones

On 05/12/2020 16:13, fred wrote:
On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 3:45:57 PM UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 05/12/2020 12:42, fred wrote:
On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 4:22:28 PM UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
We have an outdoor area at the rear of the house which is a wooden deck
with a plastic sloping roof to keep (some of) the rain off.
I say "some of" because the rain is blowing in and almost reaching the
bifolds.

The deck/roof is roughly 2.3 metres deep and 2.5 metres high.

I was contemplating adding some heating to allow us to sit out on cold
clear days so I am looking for advice.
There are weather proof 13 Amp sockets within the area of this veranda.

The obvious solution seems to be IR heaters high up the wall or on the
rafters below the roof.

I've started looking at IR heaters and there is a vast range of prices for
things which look remarkable similar, from around £70 to £300 for 1.5 kW
wall mounted strips.

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


These type of heaters are very common on the continent in pavement cafes but they remind me of an old Vauxhall car I had where the heater would roast your left foot while the right foot froze. Streuth we accepted some dire cars in days gone by

That applies to all cars. The footwell outlet from the heater is going
to blow hot air on the left foot, and your front passengers left foot,
because of the location of the heater.


Have you been in a modern car ???? My car as 4 individually independent control zones

Do you have those supermarket plastic screens installed to
make them genuinely 'independent' ?.

If you have 5 people on board that makes 10 feet, but you still
only have 4 'zones'.

On 03/12/2020 16:22, David wrote:

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look remarkably
like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in bathrooms, but I
suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat onto the body instead
of trying to warm the whole room. Just more modern technology in the heat
source.

Yup many are to all intents the same type of heater as a radiant
electric fire of old - quite intense heat close up, tailing off fairly
quickly, and also a fair bit of convected heat once they are up to
temperature. A bit of warm up time required.

(I have an outbuilding that is used occasionally for music and video
watching - it has a stat controlled fan heater that is permanently set
to keep it a little above freezing - and stop it getting damp in there,
and then a wall mounted radiant heater[1] for quick comfort on a chilly
night - it works quite well to make it comfortable without needing to
heat the space. Having said that, in time it will do that as well).

[1] Similar to :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...slash120E.html

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

The gas powered ones you find in large open shed style shops seem
noticeably more effective at warming the fleshy meat sacks in preference
to the surroundings - I expect its down to have a significant area of
emitter, running at a lower temperature producing longer wavelength IR.

The least effective type from a comfort PoV I find are the bright
halogen lamp based ones. The give rather too much light, and not enough
long wavelength IR. Having said that, they are cheap and portable, and
do provide "instant" heat.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure that
will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Yup. Something like:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DXCXD2000H.html

Might work quite well.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:41:28 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:22, David wrote:

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look
remarkably like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in
bathrooms, but I suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat
onto the body instead of trying to warm the whole room. Just more
modern technology in the heat source.

Yup many are to all intents the same type of heater as a radiant
electric fire of old - quite intense heat close up, tailing off fairly
quickly, and also a fair bit of convected heat once they are up to
temperature. A bit of warm up time required.

(I have an outbuilding that is used occasionally for music and video
watching - it has a stat controlled fan heater that is permanently set
to keep it a little above freezing - and stop it getting damp in there,
and then a wall mounted radiant heater[1] for quick comfort on a chilly
night - it works quite well to make it comfortable without needing to
heat the space. Having said that, in time it will do that as well).

[1] Similar to :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...slash120E.html

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

The gas powered ones you find in large open shed style shops seem
noticeably more effective at warming the fleshy meat sacks in preference
to the surroundings - I expect its down to have a significant area of
emitter, running at a lower temperature producing longer wavelength IR.

The least effective type from a comfort PoV I find are the bright
halogen lamp based ones. The give rather too much light, and not enough
long wavelength IR. Having said that, they are cheap and portable, and
do provide "instant" heat.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure
that will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Yup. Something like:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DXCXD2000H.html

Might work quite well.

Upstream (or down depending on how your news reader orders posts) I was
pointed to this:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mh-10-1-wall-mounted-quartz-
heater-600-1200w/1238p.

At £19.99 for 1.2 kW it seems to offer massive "bangs per buck" compared
to £213.60 for the Dimplex one.

Obviously not the same build quality, but for the intended use is it
necessary to spend 10 times the amount per unit?


I have hit an issue anyway.
Mounting for both need to be at least 1.8 metres from the floor. That is
fine.
However the Screwfix one requires 700mm top clearance and the Dimplex one
500mm top clearance.
The plastic roof it too low to allow that, unfortunately, so I may be
looking at some form of free standing heater.
Or some kind of heat reflector above which of course is not in the
specifications.

The 1.8 + 0.7 = 2.5 metres was noted in the comments on the Screwfix item.
In our 1930s house the ceilings are 8 foot or 2 metres 440 mm so would be
out of specification. Which is weird.

Anyway, progress of sorts.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 19:13:23 +0000, David wrote:

On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:41:28 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:22, David wrote:

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look
remarkably like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in
bathrooms, but I suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat
onto the body instead of trying to warm the whole room. Just more
modern technology in the heat source.

Yup many are to all intents the same type of heater as a radiant
electric fire of old - quite intense heat close up, tailing off fairly
quickly, and also a fair bit of convected heat once they are up to
temperature. A bit of warm up time required.

(I have an outbuilding that is used occasionally for music and video
watching - it has a stat controlled fan heater that is permanently set
to keep it a little above freezing - and stop it getting damp in there,
and then a wall mounted radiant heater[1] for quick comfort on a chilly
night - it works quite well to make it comfortable without needing to
heat the space. Having said that, in time it will do that as well).

[1] Similar to :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...slash120E.html

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

The gas powered ones you find in large open shed style shops seem
noticeably more effective at warming the fleshy meat sacks in
preference to the surroundings - I expect its down to have a
significant area of emitter, running at a lower temperature producing
longer wavelength IR.

The least effective type from a comfort PoV I find are the bright
halogen lamp based ones. The give rather too much light, and not enough
long wavelength IR. Having said that, they are cheap and portable, and
do provide "instant" heat.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure
that will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much
neater solution.

Yup. Something like:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DXCXD2000H.html

Might work quite well.

Upstream (or down depending on how your news reader orders posts) I was
pointed to this:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mh-10-1-wall-mounted-quartz-
heater-600-1200w/1238p.

At £19.99 for 1.2 kW it seems to offer massive "bangs per buck" compared
to £213.60 for the Dimplex one.

Obviously not the same build quality, but for the intended use is it
necessary to spend 10 times the amount per unit?


I have hit an issue anyway.
Mounting for both need to be at least 1.8 metres from the floor. That is
fine.
However the Screwfix one requires 700mm top clearance and the Dimplex
one 500mm top clearance.
The plastic roof it too low to allow that, unfortunately, so I may be
looking at some form of free standing heater.
Or some kind of heat reflector above which of course is not in the
specifications.

The 1.8 + 0.7 = 2.5 metres was noted in the comments on the Screwfix
item.
In our 1930s house the ceilings are 8 foot or 2 metres 440 mm so would
be out of specification. Which is weird.

Anyway, progress of sorts.


Just following on, how many workshops and garden sheds have a ceiling
height of above 2.5 metres?

Just checked and my 6' 0" is equivalent to 1.83 metres so I would have to
be very careful not to install such a heater at or below head height near
any walk area.

Looking more and more as if these are for churches, commercial garages,
industrial workshops etc. (if installed within the specification).

Cheers


Dave R

P.S. how many "environmentalist" Tims are there? I seem to be getting the
same noise from a number of different accounts!
I know that I post from a number of PCs (but mainly this one) but I think
that my details are broadly similar.


--
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--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 05/12/2020 19:13, David wrote:
On Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:41:28 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/12/2020 16:22, David wrote:

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look
remarkably like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in
bathrooms, but I suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat
onto the body instead of trying to warm the whole room. Just more
modern technology in the heat source.

Yup many are to all intents the same type of heater as a radiant
electric fire of old - quite intense heat close up, tailing off fairly
quickly, and also a fair bit of convected heat once they are up to
temperature. A bit of warm up time required.

(I have an outbuilding that is used occasionally for music and video
watching - it has a stat controlled fan heater that is permanently set
to keep it a little above freezing - and stop it getting damp in there,
and then a wall mounted radiant heater[1] for quick comfort on a chilly
night - it works quite well to make it comfortable without needing to
heat the space. Having said that, in time it will do that as well).

[1] Similar to :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Product...slash120E.html

Do these things work effectively?

The big sod off gas ones found outside pubs do seem to chuck out some
heat, but I am assuming that bottled gas is no cheaper than mains
electricity.

The gas powered ones you find in large open shed style shops seem
noticeably more effective at warming the fleshy meat sacks in preference
to the surroundings - I expect its down to have a significant area of
emitter, running at a lower temperature producing longer wavelength IR.

The least effective type from a comfort PoV I find are the bright
halogen lamp based ones. The give rather too much light, and not enough
long wavelength IR. Having said that, they are cheap and portable, and
do provide "instant" heat.

Free standing might make them also work in the shed but I'm not sure
that will work in practice, and permanently mounted seems a much neater
solution.

Yup. Something like:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DXCXD2000H.html

Might work quite well.

Upstream (or down depending on how your news reader orders posts) I was
pointed to this:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mh-10-1-wall-mounted-quartz-
heater-600-1200w/1238p.

At £19.99 for 1.2 kW it seems to offer massive "bangs per buck" compared
to £213.60 for the Dimplex one.

Obviously not the same build quality, but for the intended use is it
necessary to spend 10 times the amount per unit?


I have hit an issue anyway.
Mounting for both need to be at least 1.8 metres from the floor. That is
fine.
However the Screwfix one requires 700mm top clearance and the Dimplex one
500mm top clearance.
The plastic roof it too low to allow that, unfortunately, so I may be
looking at some form of free standing heater.
Or some kind of heat reflector above which of course is not in the
specifications.

The 1.8 + 0.7 = 2.5 metres was noted in the comments on the Screwfix item.
In our 1930s house the ceilings are 8 foot or 2 metres 440 mm so would be
out of specification. Which is weird.

Anyway, progress of sorts.

Cheers


Dave R


I wanted to buy one or two of those for the workshop but Sfix say not
available for delivery or collection :-(

Although my preferred choice would be to wear a coat and hat when
outside, you could fit a metal plate above it.

On 05/12/2020 19:13, David wrote:

I have hit an issue anyway.
Mounting for both need to be at least 1.8 metres from the floor. That is
fine.
However the Screwfix one requires 700mm top clearance and the Dimplex one
500mm top clearance.
The plastic roof it too low to allow that, unfortunately, so I may be
looking at some form of free standing heater.
Or some kind of heat reflector above which of course is not in the
specifications.

The 1.8 + 0.7 = 2.5 metres was noted in the comments on the Screwfix item.
In our 1930s house the ceilings are 8 foot or 2 metres 440 mm so would be
out of specification. Which is weird.

Alternatively you ignore the instructions and mount them where is
sensible for you and apply some common sense. So for example, top
clearance can be smaller if what is above is somewhat non combustible
and insensitive to heat. Not sure why the arbitrary 1.8m is suggested
for height, but its not going to set light to the ground if lower.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:57:10 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:22:22 +0000, David wrote:

I am slightly bemused that these trendy modern IR heaters look
remarkably like the electric wall heaters that used to be found in
bathrooms, but I suspect that the same idea is in use - direct heat
onto the body instead of trying to warm the whole room. Just more
modern technology in the heat source.

I thought the idea was to heat using *radiation* as opposed to
convection and conduction. So you're not heating the air between the
heater and the person.

They're used a lot in outdoor workplaces like lorry yards and seemed to
work when I've been there.

I think that was what I said?

Heat the person not the room.

Cheers



Dave R

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