We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

Cheers


Dave R


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In article ,
David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

How close? If close enough that a root could get between the wall
and it, then it's a potentially serious problem. It's amazing how
much force growing roots can exert.

Other than that, the type of soil makes a difference, because friable
soils move more easily, but semi-dwarfing rootstocks work by having
a feeble root system, so are not a major problem.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

No. All simplistic rules are nonsense, anyway.

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

They are rather more vigorous, so I would be more cautious. But there
are a zillion planted in similar locations.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 29/11/2020 13:13, David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

cables can flex - no issue. Pipes can flex a a bit, but not that much.

I would be happy planing near a well laid-in-shingle *continuous*
section of soil pipe - up to a foot or so.

Main problem is if the constant angle of drain gets disturbed and you
get pooling.. of sewage.

I would say with dwarf stock leave a meter or so, and if you have decent
access for a minidigger leave it. You might need it.




We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

Cheers


Dave R




--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 3:08:55 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 29/11/2020 13:13, David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

cables can flex - no issue. Pipes can flex a a bit, but not that much.

I would be happy planing near a well laid-in-shingle *continuous*
section of soil pipe - up to a foot or so.

Main problem is if the constant angle of drain gets disturbed and you
get pooling.. of sewage.

I would say with dwarf stock leave a meter or so, and if you have decent
access for a minidigger leave it. You might need it.
We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

Cheers


Dave R




--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
As a general rule of thumb a tree's roots extend to the periphery of their leaf canopy. There are exceptions of course. I suppose you could keep it pruned back on that particular side

On 29 Nov 2020 at 13:36:19 GMT, "Nick Maclaren" Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

How close? If close enough that a root could get between the wall
and it, then it's a potentially serious problem. It's amazing how
much force growing roots can exert.

Other than that, the type of soil makes a difference, because friable
soils move more easily, but semi-dwarfing rootstocks work by having
a feeble root system, so are not a major problem.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

No. All simplistic rules are nonsense, anyway.

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

They are rather more vigorous, so I would be more cautious. But there
are a zillion planted in similar locations.


I had read at the time I planted one that their root systems are relatively
benign. I planted one about 3m from a drain about 5 years ago and it's gone
pretty mad - maybe 5m in 2 directions along walls. Any comments welcome . . .


--
Cheers, Rob

On 29/11/2020 16:47, fred wrote:
On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 3:08:55 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 29/11/2020 13:13, David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

cables can flex - no issue. Pipes can flex a a bit, but not that much.

I would be happy planing near a well laid-in-shingle *continuous*
section of soil pipe - up to a foot or so.

Main problem is if the constant angle of drain gets disturbed and you
get pooling.. of sewage.

I would say with dwarf stock leave a meter or so, and if you have decent
access for a minidigger leave it. You might need it.
We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

Cheers


Dave R




--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
As a general rule of thumb a tree's roots extend to the periphery of their leaf canopy. There are exceptions of course. I suppose you could keep it pruned back on that particular side


They do., but those are not *structural* roots.

They are water and nutrient gathering roots and don't exert much
pressure on anything.



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On 29/11/2020 17:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 29/11/2020 16:47, fred wrote:
On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 3:08:55 PM UTC, The Natural
Philosopher wrote:
On 29/11/2020 13:13, David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on
semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and
power and
water) running fairly close to it.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable
guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees
and
shrubs?

cables can flex - no issue. Pipes can flex a a bit, but not that much.

I would be happy planing near a well laid-in-shingle *continuous*
section of soil pipe - up to a foot or so.

Main problem is if the constant angle of drain gets disturbed and you
get pooling.. of sewage.

I would say with dwarf stock leave a meter or so, and if you have decent
access for a minidigger leave it. You might need it.
We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

Cheers


Dave R




--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
As a general rule of thumb a tree's roots extend to the periphery of
their leaf canopy. There are exceptions of course. I suppose you could
keep it pruned back on that particular side


They do., but those are not *structural* roots.

They are water and nutrient gathering roots and don't exert much
pressure on anything.




Tell that to the man from building control when you try to carry
out any building work needed new foundations.

Depends on the state of the pipe. If you suspect its old and might have some
cracks, hen avoid it. Electricity seems not to be an issue, but gas on the
other hand and potentially water, if still the old metal pipes can lead to
embarrassing issues, like a rose tree fracturing a gas pip with its roots,
since the pipe was more rust than metal at that point!
Took 20 years though. grin.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 29 Nov 2020 at 13:36:19 GMT, "Nick Maclaren" Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power
and water) running fairly close to it.

How close? If close enough that a root could get between the wall
and it, then it's a potentially serious problem. It's amazing how
much force growing roots can exert.

Other than that, the type of soil makes a difference, because friable
soils move more easily, but semi-dwarfing rootstocks work by having
a feeble root system, so are not a major problem.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide
to how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees
and shrubs?

No. All simplistic rules are nonsense, anyway.

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

They are rather more vigorous, so I would be more cautious. But there
are a zillion planted in similar locations.


I had read at the time I planted one that their root systems are
relatively
benign. I planted one about 3m from a drain about 5 years ago and it's
gone
pretty mad - maybe 5m in 2 directions along walls. Any comments welcome .
. .


--
Cheers, Rob

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 19:17:36 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Depends on the state of the pipe. If you suspect its old and might have
some cracks, hen avoid it. Electricity seems not to be an issue, but gas
on the other hand and potentially water, if still the old metal pipes
can lead to embarrassing issues, like a rose tree fracturing a gas pip
with its roots, since the pipe was more rust than metal at that point!
Took 20 years though. grin.
Brian

Soil pipe, water pipe and electricity cable all relatively recent.
Installed 2012 IIRC.

Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On 29/11/2020 19:44, David wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 19:17:36 +0000, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Depends on the state of the pipe. If you suspect its old and might have
some cracks, hen avoid it. Electricity seems not to be an issue, but gas
on the other hand and potentially water, if still the old metal pipes
can lead to embarrassing issues, like a rose tree fracturing a gas pip
with its roots, since the pipe was more rust than metal at that point!
Took 20 years though. grin.
Brian

Soil pipe, water pipe and electricity cable all relatively recent.
Installed 2012 IIRC.

Cheers


So will be PVC, and unlikely to suffer from root ingress unless mightily
disturbed,

Also probably quite deep - roots do not go deep, unless to seek a water
table that exists at a lower tevel



Dave R




--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell

On 29 Nov 2020 at 16:56:22 GMT, "RJH" wrote:

On 29 Nov 2020 at 13:36:19 GMT, "Nick Maclaren" Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

How close? If close enough that a root could get between the wall
and it, then it's a potentially serious problem. It's amazing how
much force growing roots can exert.

Other than that, the type of soil makes a difference, because friable
soils move more easily, but semi-dwarfing rootstocks work by having
a feeble root system, so are not a major problem.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

No. All simplistic rules are nonsense, anyway.

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

They are rather more vigorous, so I would be more cautious. But there
are a zillion planted in similar locations.


I had read at the time I planted one that their root systems are relatively
benign. I planted one about 3m from a drain about 5 years ago and it's gone
pretty mad - maybe 5m in 2 directions along walls. Any comments welcome . . .

Oh - to answer my own question, quite aggressive it seems, from a web search.
I'll trim it back next spring.
--
Cheers, Rob

On 30/11/2020 16:25, RJH wrote:
On 29 Nov 2020 at 16:56:22 GMT, "RJH" wrote:

On 29 Nov 2020 at 13:36:19 GMT, "Nick Maclaren" Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

How close? If close enough that a root could get between the wall
and it, then it's a potentially serious problem. It's amazing how
much force growing roots can exert.

Other than that, the type of soil makes a difference, because friable
soils move more easily, but semi-dwarfing rootstocks work by having
a feeble root system, so are not a major problem.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

No. All simplistic rules are nonsense, anyway.

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

They are rather more vigorous, so I would be more cautious. But there
are a zillion planted in similar locations.


I had read at the time I planted one that their root systems are relatively
benign. I planted one about 3m from a drain about 5 years ago and it's gone
pretty mad - maybe 5m in 2 directions along walls. Any comments welcome . . .

Oh - to answer my own question, quite aggressive it seems, from a web search.
I'll trim it back next spring.

If you're talking about trimming the top by pruning/lopping, that will
make it worse! Wisteria sends runners underground some way from the main
trunk. If you cut down or damage the main plant, it will respond by
boosting activity in those runners.

--

Jeff

On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 4:33:45 PM UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 30/11/2020 16:25, RJH wrote:
On 29 Nov 2020 at 16:56:22 GMT, "RJH" wrote:

On 29 Nov 2020 at 13:36:19 GMT, "Nick Maclaren" Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
David wrote:
We are trying to decide where to plant a couple of fruit trees, on semi-
dwarfing root stock.

One location is by a West facing wall which has a soil pipe (and power and
water) running fairly close to it.

How close? If close enough that a root could get between the wall
and it, then it's a potentially serious problem. It's amazing how
much force growing roots can exert.

Other than that, the type of soil makes a difference, because friable
soils move more easily, but semi-dwarfing rootstocks work by having
a feeble root system, so are not a major problem.

I will be searching the usual suspects, but is there any reliable guide to
how close to underground pipes and cables you can safely plant trees and
shrubs?

No. All simplistic rules are nonsense, anyway.

We may want to plant a Wisteria at the back of the house as well, with
similar constraints.

They are rather more vigorous, so I would be more cautious. But there
are a zillion planted in similar locations.


I had read at the time I planted one that their root systems are relatively
benign. I planted one about 3m from a drain about 5 years ago and it's gone
pretty mad - maybe 5m in 2 directions along walls. Any comments welcome . . .

Oh - to answer my own question, quite aggressive it seems, from a web search.
I'll trim it back next spring.
If you're talking about trimming the top by pruning/lopping, that will
make it worse! Wisteria sends runners underground some way from the main
trunk. If you cut down or damage the main plant, it will respond by
boosting activity in those runners.

--

Jeff


t can be done
https://www.independent.co.uk/proper...ls-762424.html

Type this into google ' sewers for adoption tree planting ' and the go to images.
It gives distances related to tree species.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...p-3076813-.htm