I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 23/10/2020 18:05, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

Is this the grade 2 holiday home project lead project or at home?


This is my main home. But the fact that we're looking at it for the
flats prompted me to think about it here, too.
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills Wrote in message:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

Is this the grade 2 holiday home project lead project or at home?
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Roger Mills Wrote in message:
On 23/10/2020 18:05, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

Is this the grade 2 holiday home project lead project or at home?


This is my main home. But the fact that we're looking at it for the
flats prompted me to think about it here, too.

So when you're "asleep" how many hours has the 100kwh ev battery
got to recharge?
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 23/10/2020 17:46, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?


Probably a 60A fuse. Almost certainly TN-S with split concentric cable
as there is no yellow PME sticker.


Open it up and have a look. Take some photos for the wiki to add to

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Earthing_Types

and I'll send you some meter seals to make it look OK.

Not got the paper ones that say "It is an offence etc" just the strip
and lead crimps. Cig lighter fluid removes them.





--
Adam

Roger Mills wrote:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The thing to remember is that a standard domestic EV charger will draw no
more than an anaemic electric shower. ;-). There really isnt isnt much
point in going for higher than 7kW if you can charge overnight.

I reckon youll be fine.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 23/10/2020 18:49, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
On 23/10/2020 18:05, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

Is this the grade 2 holiday home project lead project or at home?


This is my main home. But the fact that we're looking at it for the
flats prompted me to think about it here, too.

So when you're "asleep" how many hours has the 100kwh ev battery
got to recharge?


I'm not sure where this is leading. Have you got anything useful to say
in answer to my original question?
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roger Mills Wrote in message:
On 23/10/2020 18:49, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
On 23/10/2020 18:05, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

Is this the grade 2 holiday home project lead project or at home?


This is my main home. But the fact that we're looking at it for the
flats prompted me to think about it here, too.

So when you're "asleep" how many hours has the 100kwh ev battery
got to recharge?


I'm not sure where this is leading. Have you got anything useful to say
in answer to my original question?

Basic maths ?

--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 23/10/2020 19:07, Tim+ wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The thing to remember is that a standard domestic EV charger will draw no
more than an anaemic electric shower. ;-). There really isnt isnt much
point in going for higher than 7kW if you can charge overnight.

I reckon youll be fine.

Tim


Yes, indeed. And the 'smart' ones can monitor the current passing
through the meter, and throttle back the charging when there are other
high demands.

But I'd still like to understand what I've actually got. The original
house was built in the 1960's and, although I've replaced the original
"fuse box" with a consumer unit with MCBs and an additional CU has been
installed for the new kitchen, the mains supply itself has never to my
knowledge been upgraded - unless the fuse was changed when the analog
meter was replaced by a digital one.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 23/10/2020 19:11, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
On 23/10/2020 18:49, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
On 23/10/2020 18:05, Jimk wrote:
Roger Mills Wrote in message:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

Is this the grade 2 holiday home project lead project or at home?


This is my main home. But the fact that we're looking at it for the
flats prompted me to think about it here, too.

So when you're "asleep" how many hours has the 100kwh ev battery
got to recharge?


I'm not sure where this is leading. Have you got anything useful to say
in answer to my original question?

Basic maths ?


What's to say that we - or future occupants - may not have 2 or 3 EVs,
and need to charge them all at the same time? No harm at looking at
options, and understanding where the constraints are!

Fortunately, Adam has come back with a much more useful answer - as I
hoped he would.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 23/10/2020 19:06, ARW wrote:
On 23/10/2020 17:46, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case
I acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper
concentric cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25
mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with
a split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would
only be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without
breaking the seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse
is without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100
amps, it could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?


Probably a 60A fuse. Almost certainly TN-S with split concentric cable
as there is no yellow PME sticker.

as an aside, we probably ought to put a section in that wik article on
PME stickers, with an example photo etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 23/10/2020 19:43, Roger Mills wrote:
On 23/10/2020 19:07, Tim+ wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The thing to remember is that a standard domestic EV charger will draw no
more than an anaemic electric shower. ;-). There really isnt isnt much
point in going for higher than 7kW if you can charge overnight.

Or an old electric cooker and most domestic supplies cater for that.

I reckon youll be fine.

Tim

Yes, indeed. And the 'smart' ones can monitor the current passing
through the meter, and throttle back the charging when there are other
high demands.

Presumably that requires that you have a smart electricity meter. I
can't see my prehistoric counter rotating cogs and dials meter talking
to anything. Most meter readers struggle to read it - the thing is right
up near the high ceiling in a dark narrow hallway.
But I'd still like to understand what I've actually got. The original
house was built in the 1960's and, although I've replaced the original
"fuse box" with a consumer unit with MCBs and an additional CU has been
installed for the new kitchen, the mains supply itself has never to my
knowledge been upgraded - unless the fuse was changed when the analog
meter was replaced by a digital one.

Probably 60A then from the date. One thing to watch out for if the
wiring is still all original is that the electricity board might want to
degrade your main fuse to 40A when they install a smart meter as
happened to a friend (whose house was built late 50's and still has
mostly round pin sockets!). Keep on nagging them to get it rewired...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 23/10/2020 17:46, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm trying to ascertain the capacity of my incoming mains just in case I
acquire an electric vehicle at some time in the future (no immediate
plans) and wish to install a charge-point.

The incoming head/main fuse looks like this:
https://app.box.com/s/ql3u40otwyax33uj8mxtn55tzq4td2ky

The OD of the (painted white) cable entering from the bottom is about
14mm. I'm assuming that this is TN-C connection with a copper concentric
cable - in which case the live conductor is likely to be 25 mm^2.

But the thought occurs to me that it just could be a TN-S supply with a
split concentric cable - in which case the central conductor would only
be 16 mm^2. Is there any way of telling which it is without breaking the
seals on the head and fuse, and looking inside?

The tails from the head to the meter and thence to two consumer units
have an OD of around 11 mm - suggesting that they are 25 mm^2 - so I'm
hoping that the incomer is, too. I don't know what size the main fuse is
without breaking the seal but presumably, if it's less than 100 amps, it
could be upgraded to 100 amps as long as the incomer is 25 mm^2?

It is most likely to be a minimum of 60A capacity which should be more
than enough for an electric car charger unless you have electric night
storage heating.

If you need a more authorative answer you could check with your DNO,
which i did recently when considering installing an electric boiler,
they were very helpful.

On 24/10/2020 09:42, Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/10/2020 19:43, Roger Mills wrote:


Yes, indeed. And the 'smart' ones can monitor the current passing
through the meter, and throttle back the charging when there are other
high demands.

Presumably that requires that you have a smart electricity meter. I
can't see my prehistoric counter rotating cogs and dials meter talking
to anything.

No, I don't think you need a smart meter - which I'm resisting, anyway.
AIUI, it doesn't need to 'talk' to the meter - it simply has a current
sensor clamped round one of the tails. I haven't actually seen one, but
that was how it was explained to me by a potential supplier when I was
investigating charge-points for the building of which my second home is
a part.
--
Cheers,
Roger

Martin Brown wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:

the 'smart' ones can monitor the current passing through the meter,
and throttle back the charging when there are other high demands.

Presumably that requires that you have a smart electricity meter.

No, the throttling is not done by the meter, it can be done by some
cleverer EVSEs (the box on the wall that you connect to the car, and
which tells the onboard charger how much current it is allowed to draw).

Roger Mills wrote:
On 24/10/2020 09:42, Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/10/2020 19:43, Roger Mills wrote:


Yes, indeed. And the 'smart' ones can monitor the current passing
through the meter, and throttle back the charging when there are other
high demands.

Presumably that requires that you have a smart electricity meter. I
can't see my prehistoric counter rotating cogs and dials meter talking
to anything.

No, I don't think you need a smart meter - which I'm resisting, anyway.
AIUI, it doesn't need to 'talk' to the meter - it simply has a current
sensor clamped round one of the tails. I haven't actually seen one, but
that was how it was explained to me by a potential supplier when I was
investigating charge-points for the building of which my second home is
a part.

Thats what my Podpoint has. Youre quite right in that you dont need a
smart meter, but youll almost certainly save money on charging if you do
as you can move on to a variable rate tariff with cheaper off-peak
overnight rates when youre charging your car. Of course this is offset by
higher rates at other times but at least you can choose when and how you
use your electricity and try to avoid car charging or other high usages
during peak times. Im getting one next month (having previously had no
real reason to get one).

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls