https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....

On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

--
Brian

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 11:23:58 +0100
Brian Howie wrote:

On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian


That gibberish means something?

On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

On 22/10/2020 11:45, Steve wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 11:23:58 +0100
Brian Howie wrote:

On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian


That gibberish means something?

yes

On 22/10/2020 12:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

The bloke at the end of the video said "ring mains are wierd"
even though he did mention that immediately after WW2
metals were expensive so using 220/230/240 volts allowed
for thinner cables.

do all American houses have to have an ugly great panel in
the house like that one ?.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2020 12:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections
looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

The bloke at the end of the video said "ring mains are wierd"
even though he did mention that immediately after WW2
metals were expensive so using 220/230/240 volts allowed
for thinner cables.

do all American houses have to have an ugly great panel in
the house like that one ?

For a given size of house and a given number of mains sockets
("receptacles") and light fittings, do US houses tend to have more separate
circuits (and therefore circuit breakers) than a UK one? How about European,
Australian etc houses?

Is there a tendency for there to be fewer sockets per circuit, and hence
more circuits, if spur wiring rather than ring main wiring is used? Is the
main advantage of ring main that it allows thinner wires to be used (at the
expense of more length of cable) because there are in theory always two
routes that the current can take to any socket?

Has there ever been a move to fit US new sockets with a pressure-operated
switch that only makes the socket contacts and hence plug pins live once the
plug is pushed fully home, in lieu of the partially-insulated plug pins that
all new UK/European appliances must now have? Or is the risk of electric
shock with non-shrouded pins seen as acceptable given the lower voltage?

Andrew wrote:
On 22/10/2020 12:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

The bloke at the end of the video said "ring mains are wierd"
even though he did mention that immediately after WW2
metals were expensive so using 220/230/240 volts allowed
for thinner cables.

do all American houses have to have an ugly great panel in
the house like that one ?.

That's a little too neat and tidy, I'm afraid.

A 4'x4' sheet of plywood, could be *filled* with
devices. For example, you could have original-panel,
upgrade-panel (more breakers), plus granny-flat-panel.
(A house could have two kitchens.)

You need a whole house entry switch, to turn off the
entire sheet of plywood in an emergency. Separate
large loads sometimes have their own switches as well.

Telecom backup supplies may be nailed to the plywood sheet.

The board back home has an exploding cartridge fuse.
It's never gone off. It flies out of the box and
onto the floor, with the idea being "arc suppression"
when disconnecting a large load. It would be pointless
stocking a spare for that position, as it could be
"stale" from sitting around for 50 years. I don't
even know if you can still buy a replacement. No, it's
not in the 200amp panel, it's a separate panel.

Electricians frequently come in, look at your sheet of
plywood and shake their heads. But it doesn't stop them
from bodging in another circuit, putting one more wire
under a screwhead that doesn't have room for more wires,
and so on.

This article is still a little too neat and tidy,
but you can see how with little effort, you could
get carried away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board

Paul

On 22/10/2020 15:50, NY wrote:
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2020 12:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

The bloke at the end of the video said "ring mains are wierd"
even though he did mention that immediately after WW2
metals were expensive so using 220/230/240 volts allowed
for thinner cables.

do all American houses have to have an ugly great panel in
the house like that one ?

For a given size of house and a given number of mains sockets
("receptacles") and light fittings, do US houses tend to have more
separate circuits (and therefore circuit breakers) than a UK one?

Yes

How
about European, Australian etc houses?

and also yes, although not as many as the US since they don't need to
wire extra 240V circuits in addition to 120V ones.

Is there a tendency for there to be fewer sockets per circuit, and hence
more circuits, if spur wiring rather than ring main wiring is used?

Yes, socket circuits need to be fused about 15A so that the circuit
breaker can offer adequate fault protection to the circuit cables *and*
the appliance flex (no plug fuses). So that means you only have 1800W
available for the hole circuit. Hence lots of circuits with a small
number of sockets.

Is
the main advantage of ring main that it allows thinner wires to be used
(at the expense of more length of cable) because there are in theory
always two routes that the current can take to any socket?

That was the original design goal yes, You could take a pair of 15A
radials as would have been common at the time, and turn them into one
circuit with 7kW of capacity that can cover a wide area with lots of
sockets. The plug fuse it what made it possible to safely power
appliances with thin flexes from a 30A circuit, since you did not need
to worry about providing fault protection to the flex at the main fuse.

Has there ever been a move to fit US new sockets with a
pressure-operated switch that only makes the socket contacts and hence
plug pins live once the plug is pushed fully home, in lieu of the
partially-insulated plug pins that all new UK/European appliances must
now have?

I don't know. Although I would expect not since it adds complexity,
lowers reliability and drives up costs.

Or is the risk of electric shock with non-shrouded pins seen
as acceptable given the lower voltage?

I don't know, but the numbers killed in the US each year by
electrocution are staggering in comparison to over here.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

It takes a special mind to make a crap joke like that!

Bill

On 22/10/2020 17:41, Paul wrote:
Andrew wrote:
On 22/10/2020 12:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

The bloke at the end of the video said "ring mains are wierd"
even though he did mention that immediately after WW2
metals were expensive so using 220/230/240 volts allowed
for thinner cables.

do all American houses have to have an ugly great panel in
the house like that one ?.

That's a little too neat and tidy, I'm afraid.

A 4'x4' sheet of plywood, could be *filled* with
devices. For example, you could have original-panel,
upgrade-panel (more breakers), plus granny-flat-panel.
(A house could have two kitchens.)

Plywood ?. what's wrong with OSB ? :-)

snip

Electricians frequently come in, look at your sheet of
plywood and shake their heads. But it doesn't stop them
from bodging in another circuit, putting one more wire
under a screwhead that doesn't have room for more wires,
and so on.

This article is still a little too neat and tidy,
but you can see how with little effort, you could
get carried away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board

Â*Â* Paul

Are there still really old Canadian houses where the
internal wiring uses bare wires held on insulated pegs
in the void between downstairs ceiling and upper floor ?

Andrew wrote:
On 22/10/2020 17:41, Paul wrote:
Andrew wrote:
On 22/10/2020 12:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:23, Brian Howie wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:22, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 22/10/2020 10:07, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmU...yCon nections

looks like a more sensible system .....
ring mains are weird...tee hee

Do you not mean "wired"

Brian

no

The bloke at the end of the video said "ring mains are wierd"
even though he did mention that immediately after WW2
metals were expensive so using 220/230/240 volts allowed
for thinner cables.

do all American houses have to have an ugly great panel in
the house like that one ?.

That's a little too neat and tidy, I'm afraid.

A 4'x4' sheet of plywood, could be *filled* with
devices. For example, you could have original-panel,
upgrade-panel (more breakers), plus granny-flat-panel.
(A house could have two kitchens.)

Plywood ?. what's wrong with OSB ? :-)

snip

Electricians frequently come in, look at your sheet of
plywood and shake their heads. But it doesn't stop them
from bodging in another circuit, putting one more wire
under a screwhead that doesn't have room for more wires,
and so on.

This article is still a little too neat and tidy,
but you can see how with little effort, you could
get carried away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board

Paul

Are there still really old Canadian houses where the
internal wiring uses bare wires held on insulated pegs
in the void between downstairs ceiling and upper floor ?

My grandmothers house.

Fortunately, the bulldozer got it :-)

I went down the basement stairs one day there, just
a few feet (because the basement had an earthen floor
and looks like a dungeon), and I saw some wires riding
on standoffs... I turned around and got the hell out
of there. I didn't want to discover any more electrical
miracles. I don't really know what kind of fuse
box it would have (it wouldn't have had breakers).

This is one of the benefits of grandfather clauses
in regs - you can have terrible stuff in a place,
and they can't force you to fix it.

But the bulldozer made sure nobody else lived there.
After my grandmother passed at 92, the place was sold,
but it was bulldozed right after that, and something
new built in its place.

And we have older houses than that. My boss at work
had a farmhouse. One with three foot thick stone
walls for the foundation. But the inside of that was
renovated, so it wasn't a hazard. The foundation was
probably 150 years old. Some people can afford to fix
the mistakes of the past.

Paul