From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068
--
Graeme

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay. Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation? Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?

On 21/10/2020 09:50, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay. Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation? Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?


It's certainly a supply problem. There are 2.48 million households in
Scotland. Say roughly a minimum of 3 alarms are required per household.
1 heat alarm in the kitchen, a smoke alarm in the living room and one in
the hall. CO are needed if there's gas CH

I think I'd need 5 . I already have 2 compliant CO . The smoke alarms I
have are non-compliant That's a minimum of 7.5 million devices to be
found by February.

Something for the Xmas stocking ?

Brian
--
Brian

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 21/10/2020 10:08, Brian Howie wrote:
On 21/10/2020 09:50, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


Â*From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay.Â* Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation?Â* Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?


It's certainly a supply problem. There are 2.48 million households in
Scotland. Say roughly a minimum of 3 alarms are required per household.
1 heat alarm in the kitchen, a smoke alarm in the living room and one in
the hall. CO are needed if there's gas CH

I think I'd need 5 . I already have 2Â* compliant CO . The smoke alarms I
have are non-compliantÂ*Â* That's a minimum of 7.5 million devices to be
found by February.

Something for the Xmas stocking ?

Brian
no way am I replacing my toast smoke alarms

On 21/10/2020 10:13, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 21/10/2020 10:08, Brian Howie wrote:
On 21/10/2020 09:50, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


Â*From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have
interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay.Â* Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation?Â* Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?


It's certainly a supply problem. There are 2.48 million households in
Scotland. Say roughly a minimum of 3 alarms are required per household.
1 heat alarm in the kitchen, a smoke alarm in the living room and one
in the hall. CO are needed if there's gas CH

I think I'd need 5 . I already have 2Â* compliant CO . The smoke alarms
I have are non-compliantÂ*Â* That's a minimum of 7.5 million devices to
be found by February.

Something for the Xmas stocking ?

Brian
no way am I replacing my toast smoke alarms

I take it you mean your wife ? :-)

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2020 10:13, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 21/10/2020 10:08, Brian Howie wrote:
On 21/10/2020 09:50, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have
interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay. Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation? Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?


It's certainly a supply problem. There are 2.48 million households in
Scotland. Say roughly a minimum of 3 alarms are required per household.
1 heat alarm in the kitchen, a smoke alarm in the living room and one in
the hall. CO are needed if there's gas CH

I think I'd need 5 . I already have 2 compliant CO . The smoke alarms I
have are non-compliant That's a minimum of 7.5 million devices to be
found by February.

Something for the Xmas stocking ?

Brian
no way am I replacing my toast smoke alarms

I take it you mean your wife ? :-)

wifey 2 doors down from me failed in her task

the fire brigade attended

On 21/10/2020 10:13, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

no way am I replacing my toast smoke alarms

If they fall off the ceiling or wall do land butter side up?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 21/10/2020 09:50, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay. Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation? Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?

my guess is it will never happen ......

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 09:50:05 +0100, Scott wrote:

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:25:58 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

I wonder if it will be as straightforward as a 12 month delay. Now
that there is a greater awareness of what is required in terms of cost
and disruption, will MSPs come under pressure to 'water down' the
legislation? Conveniently, they have put it off until after the
election.

Is it really necessary to have interlinked alarms in a flat where a
single alarm can easily be heard troughout, as anyone who has burnt
the toast will be able to testify?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Since I've never heard of anything like this anywhere else, then they are
probably right. The issue for many is that the fire service fit thousands of
free smoke alarms for the elderly, of the battery operated kind you glue to
a wall or ceiling. This has resulted in a massive reduction in the deaths of
older people in fires. To ask everyone to fit a system which might be more
capable by law would simply result in fewer installations of any kind of
alarm.
One has to be pragmatic.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068
--
Graeme

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 10:05:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

Since I've never heard of anything like this anywhere else, then they are
probably right. The issue for many is that the fire service fit thousands of
free smoke alarms for the elderly, of the battery operated kind you glue to
a wall or ceiling. This has resulted in a massive reduction in the deaths of
older people in fires. To ask everyone to fit a system which might be more
capable by law would simply result in fewer installations of any kind of
alarm.
One has to be pragmatic.

It gets better. Somewhere in the small print it says the smike alarms
fitted by Scottish Fire and Rescue are not compliant.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 11:07:49 +0100, Scott wrote:

It gets better. Somewhere in the small print it says the smike alarms
fitted by Scottish Fire and Rescue are not compliant.

If the Scottsh Fire and Rescue service have been fitting
non-compliant smoke alarm systems after Feb 2019 that is something to
complain about as that is when the change appeared in the legislative
pipeline. I have seen reference to "£870,000 each year for two years
funding to the SFRS" but not which two years...

Alarms fitted before Feb 2019 may well not be compliant, no reason to
be, the legislation was not in the pipeline.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 12:22:27 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 11:07:49 +0100, Scott wrote:

It gets better. Somewhere in the small print it says the smike alarms
fitted by Scottish Fire and Rescue are not compliant.

If the Scottsh Fire and Rescue service have been fitting
non-compliant smoke alarm systems after Feb 2019 that is something to
complain about as that is when the change appeared in the legislative
pipeline. I have seen reference to "£870,000 each year for two years
funding to the SFRS" but not which two years...

Alarms fitted before Feb 2019 may well not be compliant, no reason to
be, the legislation was not in the pipeline.

Good point. Have you been able to locate these regulations? I
haven't. I assume they are subordinate legislation as I have been
through the Acts of the Scottish Parliament. Unhelpfully, none of the
guidance seems to provide a link.

On 21/10/2020 13:38, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 12:22:27 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 11:07:49 +0100, Scott wrote:

It gets better. Somewhere in the small print it says the smike alarms
fitted by Scottish Fire and Rescue are not compliant.

If the Scottsh Fire and Rescue service have been fitting
non-compliant smoke alarm systems after Feb 2019 that is something to
complain about as that is when the change appeared in the legislative
pipeline. I have seen reference to "£870,000 each year for two years
funding to the SFRS" but not which two years...

Alarms fitted before Feb 2019 may well not be compliant, no reason to
be, the legislation was not in the pipeline.

Good point. Have you been able to locate these regulations? I
haven't. I assume they are subordinate legislation as I have been
through the Acts of the Scottish Parliament. Unhelpfully, none of the
guidance seems to provide a link.


The legislation won't help you much.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/8/contents/made

You may find more helpful the "Tolerable Standard Guidance: Satisfactory
Fire Detection and Satisfactory Carbon Monoxide Detection". I have the
text but no link so that's an opportunity for you to search.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 13:38:53 +0100, Scott wrote:

Good point. Have you been able to locate these regulations? I
haven't.

Feeding english google(*) with "scottish fire alarms"
returns:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/fi...in-scottish-ho
mes/
https://www.gov.scot/news/proposed-d...m-regulations/
https://www.gov.scot/publications/fi...tolerable-stan
dard-guidance/

Not the actual legislation but enough from the horses mouth to tell
you want is required. The funding I'd guess to be buried away in the
Scottish Treasury somewhere.

(*) Perhaps scottish google blocks hits from the gov.scot domain.
B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

Graeme wrote:

From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

Is this the first time a safety regulation has been made compulsory (in the
normal domestic situation)? I thought most building regulations only
applied to new builds and alterations, not to existing structures.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 21 Oct 2020 10:24:13 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Graeme wrote:

From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

Is this the first time a safety regulation has been made compulsory (in the
normal domestic situation)? I thought most building regulations only
applied to new builds and alterations, not to existing structures.

Were Ascot water heaters banned?

On Wednesday, 21 October 2020 11:53:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
Were Ascot water heaters banned?


They come under Gas Safety regulations not Building Standards (or housing law, which is the legislation the Scottish Govt are using).

Open flue gas heaters were defined as unsatisfactory in bathrooms and I think bedrooms, so would fail a gas safety inspection. Concealed flues have also been declared unsatisfactory and this is catching a lot of people out in flats.

Owain

On 21/10/2020 14:02, wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 October 2020 11:53:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
Were Ascot water heaters banned?


They come under Gas Safety regulations not Building Standards (or housing law, which is the legislation the Scottish Govt are using).

Open flue gas heaters were defined as unsatisfactory in bathrooms and I think bedrooms, so would fail a gas safety inspection. Concealed flues have also been declared unsatisfactory and this is catching a lot of people out in flats.

Owain



Some new 2-bed houses built near me had the kitchen in the middle
of the property (don't ask !), with a lounge facing the front and
'dining' room facing the rear. This required the boiler flue from
the central kitchen to pass through the lounge and out of the
front wall. All boxed in with a 'cat flap' every 1.5 metres
where a flue connection was !.

On Wednesday, 21 October 2020 14:29:10 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
Concealed flues have also been declared unsatisfactory and
this is catching a lot of people out in flats.
All boxed in with a 'cat flap' every 1.5 metres
where a flue connection was !.

That's okay in a single house. The problem is where the concealed flue runs through a different flat, and the other owner/occupier is not amenable to having it opened up.

Owain

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 21 October 2020 11:53:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
Were Ascot water heaters banned?


They come under Gas Safety regulations not Building Standards (or housing
law, which is the legislation the Scottish Govt are using).

Open flue gas heaters were defined as unsatisfactory in bathrooms and I
think bedrooms, so would fail a gas safety inspection. Concealed flues
have also been declared unsatisfactory and this is catching a lot of
people out in flats.

what's a concealed flue?

is there any type of flue that's allowed

Most people in my block have their boiler located in the small bedroom
(though not everyone will be using it as a bedroom)

Even new installs have been done that way



Owain

On 21/10/2020 11:24, Tim+ wrote:
Graeme wrote:

From BBC News :

New legislation which requires all homes in Scotland to have interlinked
smoke and carbon monoxide alarms will be delayed until 2022.

The moves followed criticism from Age Scotland and the Scottish
Conservatives over the lack of public awareness.

The new measures, which would cost an estimated £220 for an average
three-bedroom home, were due to come into force in February.

The Scottish government said MSPs would be asked to approve a 12-month
delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54621068

Is this the first time a safety regulation has been made compulsory (in the
normal domestic situation)? I thought most building regulations only
applied to new builds and alterations, not to existing structures.

Tim

you are getting mixed up with days when things made sense ....

On 21/10/2020 12:10, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
you are getting mixed up with days when things made sense ....

To add to this I have now read that Insurance companies are unlikely to
pay out if the proper alarms are not fitted.
Is this just a cop out? My reckoning is even with fire alarms by the
time you wake up / get out the house / then phone fire brigade which may
take say 10 minutes to arrive I would imagine the house could be well
alight.
In other words with or without alarms the damage would likely be extensive.

On 21/10/2020 15:09, ss wrote:
On 21/10/2020 12:10, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
you are getting mixed up with days when things made sense ....

To add to this I have now read that Insurance companies are unlikely to
pay out if the proper alarms are not fitted.
Is this just a cop out?Â* My reckoning is even with fire alarms by the
time you wake up / get out the house / then phone fire brigade which may
take say 10 minutes to arrive I would imagine the house could be well
alight.
In other words with or without alarms the damage would likely be extensive.

Houses do not burn down in ten minutes! Except in films.

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 21/10/2020 15:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2020 15:09, ss wrote:
On 21/10/2020 12:10, Jim GM4 DHJ ... wrote:
you are getting mixed up with days when things made sense ....

To add to this I have now read that Insurance companies are unlikely
to pay out if the proper alarms are not fitted.
Is this just a cop out?Â* My reckoning is even with fire alarms by the
time you wake up / get out the house / then phone fire brigade which
may take say 10 minutes to arrive I would imagine the house could be
well alight.
In other words with or without alarms the damage would likely be
extensive.

Houses do not burn down in ten minutes! Except in films.

And in reality. When did you witness an actual house fire and
the speed with which it spreads ?.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 15:18:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

To add to this I have now read that Insurance companies are
unlikely to
pay out if the proper alarms are not fitted.
Is this just a cop out?

I think the insurance company would have show "beyond reasonable
doubt" that the property would have been significantly less damaged
if smoke alarms had been fitted.

My reckoning is even with fire alarms by the time you wake up /
get out
the house / then phone fire brigade which may take say 10 minutes
to
arrive I would imagine the house could be well alight.
In other words with or without alarms the damage would likely be
extensive.

And it's not just fire damage as in burnt, the whole house will be
smoke damaged and a couple of hundred gallons of water a minute that
a fire hose (not the little hose reel) can deliver isn't exactly good
for things.

Houses do not burn down in ten minutes! Except in films.

Maybe not down as only walls standing but "well alight" certainly and
more than a single pump and its own water supply can cope with.

--
Cheers
Dave.