One of our zone valves has failed in that the spring on the little lever
has broken, or possibly come adrift. The lever moves across without any
resistance in either direction with the result that, when the boiler is
fired by any zone, the radiators in the 'unfired' zone heat presumably
because the motorised valve is permanently open.

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little, just to see whether it is a
broken spring, but what I'm not sure is how much dismantling can be done
without water coming out unexpectedly! Any clues? Thanks.
--
Graeme

In message , Graeme
writes

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little, just to see whether it is a
broken spring, but what I'm not sure is how much dismantling can be
done without water coming out unexpectedly!

Doh! Just looked on YouTube and answered by own question. I can see
that releasing two screws enables the whole motor unit without releasing
water.

Plan A is to do that, then do a straight swap with one of the others (we
have four in total) which should prove whether or not it is just the
motor unit or the internals of the valve itself.

--
Graeme

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 08:59:59 +0100, Graeme wrote:

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little, just to see whether it is a
broken spring, but what I'm not sure is how much dismantling can be done
without water coming out unexpectedly! Any clues? Thanks.

(From memory) remove screw holding cover on, remove cover revealing a
couple of screws that hold the actuator onto the valve body. Remove
those and the actuator can be pulled off the shaft of the valve
without getting your feet wet. IIRC they aren't double insulated so
there could be bare connections with mains on them.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 09:09:04 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message , Graeme
writes

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little, just to see whether it is a
broken spring, but what I'm not sure is how much dismantling can be done
without water coming out unexpectedly!

Doh! Just looked on YouTube and answered by own question. I can see
that releasing two screws enables the whole motor unit without releasing
water.

Unless it is 20 years+ old, which does release water if you take the head
off. If it has a flat top cover, then it is old, and will probably need a
partial drain off, and complete new valve.

In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 08:59:59 +0100, Graeme wrote:

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little,

(From memory) remove screw holding cover on, remove cover revealing a
couple of screws that hold the actuator onto the valve body. Remove
those and the actuator can be pulled off the shaft of the valve
without getting your feet wet. IIRC they aren't double insulated so
there could be bare connections with mains on them.

Thanks Dave, exactly right. I had to do something similar a few years
ago, but had completely forgotten the procedure.
--
Graeme

On 18/10/2020 08:59, Graeme wrote:

One of our zone valves has failed in that the spring on the little lever
has broken, or possibly come adrift.Â* The lever moves across without any
resistance in either direction with the result that, when the boiler is
fired by any zone, the radiators in the 'unfired' zone heat presumably
because the motorised valve is permanently open.

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little, just to see whether it is a
broken spring, but what I'm not sure is how much dismantling can be done
without water coming out unexpectedly!Â* Any clues?Â* Thanks.

Just take the cover off, undo 2 screws that connect head to valve body
and it should pull away.
To save faffing about - if a 2 port head - Strom do a replacement head
that fits Honeywell valves for a lot cheaper than original. They are
solidly built with all metal gears and I have not had one fail yet:-
https://www.screwfix.com/p/strom-rep...lve-head/7829v

In message , Andy
Bennet writes

To save faffing about - if a 2 port head - Strom do a replacement head
that fits Honeywell valves for a lot cheaper than original. They are
solidly built with all metal gears and I have not had one fail yet:-
https://www.screwfix.com/p/strom-rep...lve-head/7829v

Thanks Andy, that looks perfect. Just to be clear, the unit supplied is
exactly as illustrated, and not just the motor part? In other words,
apart from the wiring, just cover off, two screws, job done?

Thanks!
--
Graeme

On 18/10/2020 11:18, Graeme wrote:
In message , Andy
Bennet writes

To save faffing about - if a 2 port head - Strom do a replacement head
that fits Honeywell valves for a lot cheaper than original. They are
solidly built with all metal gears and I have not had one fail yet:-
https://www.screwfix.com/p/strom-rep...lve-head/7829v

Thanks Andy, that looks perfect.Â* Just to be clear, the unit supplied is
exactly as illustrated, and not just the motor part?Â* In other words,
apart from the wiring, just cover off, two screws, job done?

Thanks!
That's how I have done honeywell 2 port heads in the past, yes
Its the wiring that takes the time..

--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On 18/10/2020 11:18, Graeme wrote:
In message , Andy
Bennet writes

To save faffing about - if a 2 port head - Strom do a replacement head
that fits Honeywell valves for a lot cheaper than original. They are
solidly built with all metal gears and I have not had one fail yet:-
https://www.screwfix.com/p/strom-rep...lve-head/7829v

Thanks Andy, that looks perfect.Â* Just to be clear, the unit supplied is
exactly as illustrated, and not just the motor part?Â* In other words,
apart from the wiring, just cover off, two screws, job done?

Thanks!

Yep its a complte replacement for the head - with the addition of a
light to tell you when its activated!

In message , Andy
Bennet writes

Yep its a complte replacement for the head - with the addition of a
light to tell you when its activated!

Perfect. Duly ordered - and thanks.
--
Graeme

On 18/10/2020 08:59, Graeme wrote:

One of our zone valves has failed in that the spring on the little lever
has broken, or possibly come adrift.Â* The lever moves across without any
resistance in either direction with the result that, when the boiler is
fired by any zone, the radiators in the 'unfired' zone heat presumably
because the motorised valve is permanently open.

I'll need to dismantle the valve a little, just to see whether it is a
broken spring, but what I'm not sure is how much dismantling can be done
without water coming out unexpectedly!Â* Any clues?Â* Thanks.

There's a strong chance that your diagnosis is wrong. The lever is for
manually opening the valve, and when the valve *is* open the lever will
move freely back and forth.

It's quite possible that the wet part of the valve has stuck in the open
position such that the return spring in the actuator isn't strong enough
to close it. This will be apparent once you remove the actuator from the
valve, because this will then whir back to the closed position, and
you'll feel some resistance in the lever. Also, the shaft of the valve
will be too stiff to rotate using your finger and thumb.

If the shaft moves freely and the actuator doesn't whir closed, the
problem is with the actuator. Otherwise, it's with the valve. In most
cases, you can free a stuck valve by working it backwards and forwards
with a pair of pliers.
--
Cheers,
Roger

In message , Roger Mills
writes

If the shaft moves freely and the actuator doesn't whir closed, the
problem is with the actuator. Otherwise, it's with the valve. In most
cases, you can free a stuck valve by working it backwards and forwards
with a pair of pliers.

Thanks Roger. Almost certainly the actuator, as the shaft moves freely
and has not closed in that water is still circulating beyond the valve
(and heating radiators) even with the actuator completely removed.
--
Graeme

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 22:14:05 +0100, Graeme wrote:

If the shaft moves freely and the actuator doesn't whir closed,
the
problem is with the actuator. Otherwise, it's with the valve. In
most
cases, you can free a stuck valve by working it backwards and
forwards
with a pair of pliers.

Thanks Roger. Almost certainly the actuator, as the shaft moves freely
and has not closed in that water is still circulating beyond the valve
(and heating radiators) even with the actuator completely removed.

The valve needs the spring in the actuator to close. If you manually
close the valve does the flow stop? Perhaps the ball has
disintegrated. Does the actuator motor open and spring return when
not on the valve?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 2020-10-18 21:14:05 +0000, Graeme said:

In message , Roger Mills
writes

If the shaft moves freely and the actuator doesn't whir closed, the
problem is with the actuator. Otherwise, it's with the valve. In most
cases, you can free a stuck valve by working it backwards and forwards
with a pair of pliers.

Thanks Roger. Almost certainly the actuator, as the shaft moves freely
and has not closed in that water is still circulating beyond the valve
(and heating radiators) even with the actuator completely removed.

The easiest thing to do is just buy a new motorised head. You can get
them cheapest on ebay. I bought a Honeywell with the valve body for
about £30 as i thought it would be useful and indeed have replaced that
too now. Be careful wiring in the new head as if the board is anything
like ours it's rather small and easy to forget what goes where and to
accidentally set another wire loose.

In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes

The valve needs the spring in the actuator to close. If you manually
close the valve does the flow stop? Perhaps the ball has
disintegrated. Does the actuator motor open and spring return when
not on the valve?

Having discovered the fault on Sunday, I put it all back together,
awaiting a new head, and now it seems to be working perfectly. I can
only think that I dislodged something, or eased a sticking part. Still
awaiting the replacement head but, with three motorised valves here, it
will come in handy one day.
--
Graeme

In message 2020101823510528942-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith
writes

Be careful wiring in the new head as if the board is anything like ours
it's rather small and easy to forget what goes where and to
accidentally set another wire loose.

I have taken multiple photos and drawn a wiring diagram, just in case
:-)

What I'm not sure about is the two black wires which go into the valve,
from the cable to the boiler. One black wire is connected to an orange
wire, the other to a grey wire. Not sure whether it matters which black
wire is connected to orange and which to grey.

--
Graeme

On 20/10/2020 13:17, Graeme wrote:
In message 2020101823510528942-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith
writes

Be careful wiring in the new head as if the board is anything like
ours it's rather small and easy to forget what goes where and to
accidentally set another wire loose.

I have taken multiple photos and drawn a wiring diagram, just in case :-)

What I'm not sure about is the two black wires which go into the valve,
from the cable to the boiler.Â* One black wire is connected to an orange
wire, the other to a grey wire.Â* Not sure whether it matters which black
wire is connected to orange and which to grey.


The orange and grey leads go to a NC microswitch. The switch closes when
the valve fully arrives at the open position. It does not matter which
way round you wire those leads but i'm sure somewhere ther must be a
convention. The blue and brown leads power the little motor and are
turned on/off by your thermostat. (for completeness the yellow/green
lead is the earth!)

On 20/10/2020 15:22, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 20/10/2020 13:17, Graeme wrote:
In message 2020101823510528942-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith
writes

Be careful wiring in the new head as if the board is anything like
ours it's rather small and easy to forget what goes where and to
accidentally set another wire loose.

I have taken multiple photos and drawn a wiring diagram, just in case :-)

What I'm not sure about is the two black wires which go into the
valve, from the cable to the boiler.Â* One black wire is connected to
an orange wire, the other to a grey wire.Â* Not sure whether it matters
which black wire is connected to orange and which to grey.


The orange and grey leads go to a NC microswitch. The switch closes when
the valve fully arrives at the open position. It does not matter which
way round you wire those leads but i'm sure somewhere ther must be a
convention. The blue and brown leads power the little motor and are
turned on/off by your thermostat. (for completeness the yellow/green
lead is the earth!)

I re-read the above just after I hit 'send'. Err the microswitch is NO
not NC!
soz

On 2020-10-20 14:24:21 +0000, Andy Bennet said:

On 20/10/2020 15:22, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 20/10/2020 13:17, Graeme wrote:
In message 2020101823510528942-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith
writes

Be careful wiring in the new head as if the board is anything like ours
it's rather small and easy to forget what goes where and to
accidentally set another wire loose.

I have taken multiple photos and drawn a wiring diagram, just in case :-)

What I'm not sure about is the two black wires which go into the valve,
from the cable to the boiler.* One black wire is connected to an orange
wire, the other to a grey wire.* Not sure whether it matters which
black wire is connected to orange and which to grey.


The orange and grey leads go to a NC microswitch. The switch closes
when the valve fully arrives at the open position. It does not matter
which way round you wire those leads but i'm sure somewhere ther must
be a convention. The blue and brown leads power the little motor and
are turned on/off by your thermostat. (for completeness the
yellow/green lead is the earth!)

I re-read the above just after I hit 'send'. Err the microswitch is NO not NC!
soz

It's well worth getting familar with the wiring so one understands what
you are doing.

This is a typical S plan system with two 2-port valves like we have
although we don't have a room stat only a cylinder stat and programmer.

https://www.flameport.com/electric/c...ng_diagram.gif

Video also:

https://www.flameport.com/electric/c...ing_S_plan.cs4

On 20/10/2020 13:08, Graeme wrote:
In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes

The valve needs the spring in the actuator to close. If you manually
close the valve does the flow stop? Perhaps the ball has
disintegrated. Does the actuator motor open and spring return when
not on the valve?

Having discovered the fault on Sunday, I put it all back together,
awaiting a new head, and now it seems to be working perfectly.Â* I can
only think that I dislodged something, or eased a sticking part.Â* Still
awaiting the replacement head but, with three motorised valves here, it
will come in handy one day.

Sounds like the valve was sticking and the actuator was ok - which is
what I suspected.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 20/10/2020 13:08, Graeme wrote:
In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes

The valve needs the spring in the actuator to close. If you manually
close the valve does the flow stop? Perhaps the ball has
disintegrated. Does the actuator motor open and spring return when
not on the valve?

Having discovered the fault on Sunday, I put it all back together,
awaiting a new head, and now it seems to be working perfectly.
Almost certainly the valve spindle had furred up and you managed to
dislodge it.
I can
only think that I dislodged something, or eased a sticking part.Â* Still
awaiting the replacement head but, with three motorised valves here, it
will come in handy one day.

yes. I ended up with a complete spare valve after fixing various bits a
year back.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.