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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one)
terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? |
#2
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 11:56, NY wrote:
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? 'Short' is a binary term for something that in this case is far from binary. typical resistance between fingers will be in he several hundred kilohm range. Not enough to upset a low voltage battery. Two wet fingers across my multimeter got me about 180k Note that 30mA is RCD trip current for safety, so that implies a human body might be somewhere on the 50mA at 240v = 4.8K region worst case with two hands wrapped around conductors... I managed to pickup a live lamp-holder I was working on the other month and got a nice 'trembler' Didn't trip the RCD... -- "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors." - George Orwell |
#3
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 11:56, NY wrote:
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". Bridging the insulation between the positive and negative terminals with a sweaty fingerprint will shorten the battery life somewhat. But it would have to be a very low capacity battery for holding onto the terminals for a few seconds. Very few people are lower than 50k skin resistance and some are as high as 10M. Biggest danger from them is children swallowing them which can cause very serous internal electrolytic burns. I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? There is truth in the don't put a fingerprint across the insulation that separates the two terminals. Much like don't put fingerprints onto quartz halogen bulbs - the sodium chloride and skin oils cause trouble. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#4
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
"NY" wrote in :
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? I have always follwed that advice. |
#5
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 11:56, NY wrote:
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? bollox...but you need to keep them clean .... |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 11:56, NY wrote:
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I think this is one of those old wives tales that started with a grain of truth, but then the actual detail got lost along the way, and now the "fact" recalled is nothing to do with the actual issue[1] I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Indeed. Things like button cells can be used in applications where they will last years, so making sure there is no contamination of the surfaces makes sense. However you will not drain any noticeable energy though your fingers while poking it into its socket. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? [1] Bit like when people try to tell you that turning on a fluorescent light will use 15 mins worth of electricity. The real deal is that starting a lamp will use up some of the life on the heater coils, and eventually could cause a lamp to fail to start - thus raising the overall costs per hour..- but drawing 15 mins of energy in the couple of seconds required to start it, is something the circuit breaker might have a thing or two to say about! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#8
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On Saturday, 3 October 2020 14:56:00 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2020 11:56, NY wrote: My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I think this is one of those old wives tales that started with a grain of truth, but then the actual detail got lost along the way, and now the "fact" recalled is nothing to do with the actual issue[1] I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Indeed. Things like button cells can be used in applications where they will last years, so making sure there is no contamination of the surfaces makes sense. However you will not drain any noticeable energy though your fingers while poking it into its socket. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? [1] Bit like when people try to tell you that turning on a fluorescent light will use 15 mins worth of electricity. The real deal is that starting a lamp will use up some of the life on the heater coils, and eventually could cause a lamp to fail to start - thus raising the overall costs per hour..- but drawing 15 mins of energy in the couple of seconds required to start it, is something the circuit breaker might have a thing or two to say about! I once did a calcualtion on that & concluded that the total costs of leaving a linear fluorescent light on were only beneficial for a matter of seconds, beyond that it was cheaper to switch off. A molehill had been made into a mountain somewhere. NT |
#9
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteriescauses them to discharge" - any truth?
Snip
I recently installed a (Rechargeable) button style battery in a central heating programmer. The original had 3 little legs welded to the case. The replacement was just under £10 from the bay of the flea. Or, I could get what looked identical but legless For £2.99.... So, I tacked some legs onto the replacement with solder and then held the battery in the jaws of a pair of snipe nosed pliers while I nailed it in place on the PCB. Then thought Hmmm. Perhaps I shouldve insulated the Pilar tips prior to grabbing both sides of the battery! The battery was a bit warm from the soldering and / or shorting, but seems to have survived the experience. |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
Of course there is always waste, both in the form of heat and sound from
those lights, depending on the way they are started and if it has a gynormous choke or not. Many of the so called low energy fittings and lamps tend to spew out RF which is basically wasted. Hum from the choke, and heat in the starter bulbs loses energy. I guess you could design some very kind starters for them, indeed the old battery ones suggest to not even use the heaters, at least not on the one I had it just developed a very height voltage till it started, then lowered it to the most efficient running voltage when conduction was in progress. They still got tired though and would enter that flash on and off behaviour, first noticeable in the cold. I'd imagine the particles inside did something to the electrodes and or the phosphor on the inside of the tube after some time. Brian -- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "John Rumm" wrote in message ... On 03/10/2020 11:56, NY wrote: My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I think this is one of those old wives tales that started with a grain of truth, but then the actual detail got lost along the way, and now the "fact" recalled is nothing to do with the actual issue[1] I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Indeed. Things like button cells can be used in applications where they will last years, so making sure there is no contamination of the surfaces makes sense. However you will not drain any noticeable energy though your fingers while poking it into its socket. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? [1] Bit like when people try to tell you that turning on a fluorescent light will use 15 mins worth of electricity. The real deal is that starting a lamp will use up some of the life on the heater coils, and eventually could cause a lamp to fail to start - thus raising the overall costs per hour..- but drawing 15 mins of energy in the couple of seconds required to start it, is something the circuit breaker might have a thing or two to say about! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
After serious thinking Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote :
They still got tired though and would enter that flash on and off behaviour, first noticeable in the cold. I'd imagine the particles inside did something to the electrodes and or the phosphor on the inside of the tube after some time. They don't use the heaters, except as as electorodes. The strike occurs as a result of the high impedance, but high voltage. If running floro tubes from a battery inverter circuit, the tubes tend to blacken at one end, due to the ac not being a truelly balanced ac. The average current flow will be in one direction, which will cause blackening at one end of the tube and sometimes difficulty getting them to strike. Simple answer, swap the tube end for end. |
#12
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
NY formulated on Saturday :
I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. It's the sweaty/oily deposits from your skin which is a problem, it can short across the insulator and cause the low power cells to discharge and reduce their working life. You should only touch them with insulated tweezers, to avoid this. |
#13
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 17:02, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
NY formulated on Saturday : I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. It's the sweaty/oily deposits from your skin which is a problem, it can short across the insulator and cause the low power cells to discharge and reduce their working life. You should only touch them with insulated tweezers, to avoid this. Utter ******** -- There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy. |
#14
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us :
Utter ******** Your skin deposits are conductive. Were that no so, you would be unable to receive a shock when touching mains voltages, nor would you leave fingerprints behind, on everything you touch. |
#15
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On Saturday, 3 October 2020 17:43:59 UTC+1, wrote:
The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us : Utter ******** Your skin deposits are conductive. Were that no so, you would be unable to receive a shock when touching mains voltages, nor would you leave fingerprints behind, on everything you touch. Semi-true. As an argument for not touching batteries it's a nonstarter. |
#16
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 17:43, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us : Utter ******** Your skin deposits are conductive. Were that no so, you would be unable to receive a shock when touching mains voltages, nor would you leave fingerprints behind, on everything you touch. but they are only conductive when wet, and fingerprints are oils, not water based solids And the water based parts dry out. -- There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy. |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causesthem to discharge" - any truth?
NY wrote:
My wife has always believed that if you touch both (and maybe just one) terminal of a flat disc "button" battery (eg CR2032, CR1620 as used in a watch, key fob, PC BIOS), you will cause the battery to discharge, so you must take care when fitting a new battery not to "short the terminals with your fingers". I can imagine that sweat on the metal terminals *may* cause a bit of oxidation over a long period of time, but I can't see how a body resistance of many kilohms will cause the battery to go flat. Is there any truth in what she's always believed and what she advises me to do? The cell consists of two corrosion-resistant surfaces, and an air gap. Below the air gap is some dielectric material which does not conduct. To discharge the battery requires shoving a significant amount of material into the insulating gap. The only reason for keeping finger oils off battery contacts, is in the belief it will lead to unreliable contact with the terminals. The socket materials are not as good/expensive as the cell materials. While you might drop the cell several times while handling it, it's not likely to have a "deep discharge" event. Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. Paul |
#18
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
Paul wrote:
Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. All the button cells I have bought in the last few years have 'use before' dates on them (or something like that). -- Chris Green · |
#19
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
In message , Paul
writes Snip Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. Some battery powered devices have a constant battery drain despite being *switched off*. My two are a pistol grip laser thermometer and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( -- Tim Lamb |
#20
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 20:50:52 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Paul writes Snip Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. Some battery powered devices have a constant battery drain despite being *switched off*. My two are a pistol grip laser thermometer and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( Verniers are bad for that. I have an Aldidl one that takes a an LR4 and would last a few months at most. Although I didn't 'need' it I got another one from Aldidl that takes a CR2032, thinking that the bigger cell should last a lot longer; it doesn't! BTW, I've a vernier caliper that doesn't take a cell but I can no longer read it very well. If someone wants it, drop me an e-mail - free to a good home where it'll be used. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#21
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
Yes, I've had the old black pea in a pack. I did send it back and got a free
new pack. No mention of fake. This was the old Energiser brand, used to be Ever Ready I'd imagine, which when you think of it was a lie in the name, as in the old days, even when they rebranded to Berec was not true. Most Japanese batteries of the same era outperformed them. Duracell outperform Energisers as well, indeed Sainsbury's own brand out perform energisers! Brian -- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Tim Lamb" wrote in message ... In message , Paul writes Snip Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. Some battery powered devices have a constant battery drain despite being *switched off*. My two are a pistol grip laser thermometer and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( -- Tim Lamb |
#22
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
Renata (switzerland) used to be the battery of choice for cameras
back in the days of film when silver oxide batteries were needed. Andrew On 04/10/2020 09:48, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: Yes, I've had the old black pea in a pack. I did send it back and got a free new pack. No mention of fake. This was the old Energiser brand, used to be Ever Ready I'd imagine, which when you think of it was a lie in the name, as in the old days, even when they rebranded to Berec was not true. Most Japanese batteries of the same era outperformed them. Duracell outperform Energisers as well, indeed Sainsbury's own brand out perform energisers! Brian |
#23
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
Tim Lamb has brought this to us :
and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( My two verniers last around a year, before needing new batteries, but then I don't handle the replacement batteries with my fingers :-) |
#24
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes Tim Lamb has brought this to us : and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( My two verniers last around a year, before needing new batteries, but then I don't handle the replacement batteries with my fingers :-) Mostly I use a simple vernier: the digital lives in a case with the 2302 battery removed. The thermometer might get used twice a year checking the underfloor heating (noticeable 2-4 deg. C difference from pipe to gap) and related jobs. PP8 left disconnected -- Tim Lamb |
#25
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteriescauses them to discharge" - any truth?
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Paul writes Snip Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. Some battery powered devices have a constant battery drain despite being *switched off*. My two are a pistol grip laser thermometer and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( If its the Aldi/Lidl one, Ive learnt to always pop the battery cover before putting it away. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#26
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 04/10/2020 17:52, Tim+ wrote:
If its the Aldi/Lidl one, Ive learnt to always pop the battery cover before putting it away. +1 The original battery bought many years ago has been in contact with my fingers every time I remove and reinsert it and is still showing 1.5 volts after all these years. |
#27
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes themto discharge" - any truth?
On 03/10/2020 20:50, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Paul writes Snip Some cells are knackered in the package. I was sold a CR2032 at the mall, which was dead about a day after I got it, which meant the product had been sitting in that store for 10+ years. Or, it was a counterfeit of a very inferior nature. No amount of fingerprints would be responsible for that. Another cell purchased elsewhere, behaved properly. It's not like I had premature failures one after another, just the one cell that was knackered, out of the package. Some battery powered devices have a constant battery drain despite being *switched off*. My two are a pistol grip laser thermometer and a digital vernier gauge. Left connected, 4 weeks battery life:-( Yeah, those chinesium digital calipers seem famous for that. Mine are the same. I get the feeling it would probably be cheaper to stump up for the Mitutoyo[1] in the first place and not buy batteries by the shed load! [1] in fact no, I just looked at the prices - that would buy a serious amount of batteries! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#28
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"Touching (one or both terminals of) button batteries causes them to discharge" - any truth?
In article ,
John Rumm wrote: Yeah, those chinesium digital calipers seem famous for that. Mine are the same. I get the feeling it would probably be cheaper to stump up for the Mitutoyo[1] in the first place and not buy batteries by the shed load! Quite - that's what my digital calipers is. Batteries seem to last forever - even when left switched on. -- *It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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