I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

In article ,
Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

I painted ny backdoor last in 1980. It probably needs doing again.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 13:41:08 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

I painted ny backdoor last in 1980. It probably needs doing again.

I'll ask the Factors for the name of the painter they used and let you
know then :-)

In article ,
Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

It is going to depend on how exposed it is. My front door is set back from
the front of the house and north facing. Still looks just fine when the
rest of the exterior needs decorating, assuming no mechanical damage to
cause chips, etc. White seems to have a shorter life than colours too.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/09/2020 12:24, Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

Depends on the wood, quality of paint, quality of painter, but probably
most important the type of exposure it gets to the weather.

A year definitely sounds dodgy. Maybe 10 Downing Street front door gets
painted every year, but it's expected to look super smart.

On 28/09/2020 14:51, newshound wrote:

A year definitely sounds dodgy. Maybe 10 Downing Street front door gets
painted every year, but it's expected to look super smart.

I have a strong feeling they have more than one of them. They take one
away to be painted and hang the other one. I imagine it takes some
doing, as they must be reinforced.

On Monday, 28 September 2020 12:24:53 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

It varies hugely. Can even be as bad as 1 yr in some cases. Paint reformulation has caused some problems in this respect. It's really impossible to know who or what is to blame without investigation.


NT

On 28/09/2020 16:18, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 14:51, newshound wrote:

A year definitely sounds dodgy. Maybe 10 Downing Street front door
gets painted every year, but it's expected to look super smart.

I have a strong feeling they have more than one of them. They take one
away to be painted and hang the other one. I imagine it takes some
doing, as they must be reinforced.

ISTR its also made out of steel...

(and can't be opened from the outside)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/09/2020 20:43, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/09/2020 16:18, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 14:51, newshound wrote:

A year definitely sounds dodgy. Maybe 10 Downing Street front door
gets painted every year, but it's expected to look super smart.

I have a strong feeling they have more than one of them. They take one
away to be painted and hang the other one. I imagine it takes some
doing, as they must be reinforced.

ISTR its also made out of steel...

(and can't be opened from the outside)



Yes, WP confirms:

"After the IRA mortar attack in 1991, the original black oak door was
replaced by a blast-proof steel one. Regularly removed for refurbishment
and replaced with a replica, it is so heavy that it takes eight men to
lift it.

The door cannot be opened from the outside; there is always someone
inside to unlock the door."

I'm astonished that they move the door by hand. Surely, some sort of
cradle/trolley makes sense?

On 28/09/2020 21:06, GB wrote:

snip
I'm astonished that they move the door by hand.Â* Surely, some sort of
cradle/trolley makes sense?

I'm happy to be pointed to a tool that can be hired or bought that could
lift the door off its hinges, carry it out and load it on a van; and
then do the reverse for the replacement. But I'd be very surprised if
there's an option which is cheaper than manual labour for an occasional
job like that.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 28/09/2020 22:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 21:06, GB wrote:

snip
I'm astonished that they move the door by hand.Â* Surely, some sort of
cradle/trolley makes sense?

I'm happy to be pointed to a tool that can be hired or bought that could
lift the door off its hinges, carry it out and load it on a van; and
then do the reverse for the replacement.Â* But I'd be very surprised if
there's an option which is cheaper than manual labour for an occasional
job like that.



https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...uctId=25195656

Would that do it?

newshound expressed precisely :
A year definitely sounds dodgy. Maybe 10 Downing Street front door gets
painted every year, but it's expected to look super smart.

They have more than one door and just swap them, when the current one
needs painting.

On 28/09/2020 22:32, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 21:06, GB wrote:

snip
I'm astonished that they move the door by hand.Â* Surely, some sort of
cradle/trolley makes sense?

I'm happy to be pointed to a tool that can be hired or bought that
could lift the door off its hinges, carry it out and load it on a van;
and then do the reverse for the replacement.Â* But I'd be very
surprised if there's an option which is cheaper than manual labour for
an occasional job like that.



https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...uctId=25195656


Would that do it?


I can see that could be used to lift the door off the hinges - assuming
the toe plates are thin enough). I don't see how it gets the door out
through the doorway past the jambs. And the wheels look to me a bit iffy
for the steps down.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 21:06:55 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 28/09/2020 20:43, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/09/2020 16:18, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 14:51, newshound wrote:

A year definitely sounds dodgy. Maybe 10 Downing Street front door
gets painted every year, but it's expected to look super smart.

I have a strong feeling they have more than one of them. They take one
away to be painted and hang the other one. I imagine it takes some
doing, as they must be reinforced.

ISTR its also made out of steel...

(and can't be opened from the outside)

Yes, WP confirms:

"After the IRA mortar attack in 1991, the original black oak door was
replaced by a blast-proof steel one. Regularly removed for refurbishment
and replaced with a replica, it is so heavy that it takes eight men to
lift it.

Sexist *******s :-)

Thanks to everyone. I'm not going to enter into an argument over
durability, which it sounds as though I might lose. Tactical retreat.

On 28/09/2020 12:24, Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

A lot depends on how well the surface was prepared first. Most premature
paint failures are down to poor workmanship at the preparation stage.

A decent quality oil based paint applied properly should be good for 3
years in tricky conditions and five years or longer in sheltered ones.

Of the most extreme hardwearing paints and varnishes I have known a
certain brand of yatch varnish survived for nearly 10 years in the
harshest of conditions. It then all started to drop off at once as water
got in behind it. Bits still stuck to the job will need removing

Facing into the weather and southwards in the hot summer sun is what
makes exterior paints fail the most rapidly as the wood expands and
contracts and the paint film becomes more brittle with age.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 28/09/2020 12:24, Scott wrote:
I am in an argument about a door that was painted by the Factors
(managing agents) about a year ago. They are suggesting it may need
to be done again. In general terms, could anyone comment how long
exterior oil-based gloss should last? I promise not to cite you as a
witness for the Pursuer :-)

Surely it depends on whether the door is wood, plastic, or metal, and even more on its exposure to the elements. I find that wooden windows exposed to the full southern sun and rain need painting every couple of years. Other areas less often.


--
Clive Page

On 29/09/2020 07:03, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:32, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 21:06, GB wrote:

snip
I'm astonished that they move the door by hand.Â* Surely, some sort
of cradle/trolley makes sense?

I'm happy to be pointed to a tool that can be hired or bought that
could lift the door off its hinges, carry it out and load it on a
van; and then do the reverse for the replacement.Â* But I'd be very
surprised if there's an option which is cheaper than manual labour
for an occasional job like that.



https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...uctId=25195656


Would that do it?


I can see that could be used to lift the door off the hinges - assuming
the toe plates are thin enough). I don't see how it gets the door out
through the doorway past the jambs. And the wheels look to me a bit iffy
for the steps down.


That's assuming that they actually take it away to paint. I suppose
that's rather likely, and as soon as steps are involved the machinery
becomes far more complex.

On 29/09/2020 13:02, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 07:03, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:32, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 21:06, GB wrote:

snip
I'm astonished that they move the door by hand.Â* Surely, some sort
of cradle/trolley makes sense?

I'm happy to be pointed to a tool that can be hired or bought that
could lift the door off its hinges, carry it out and load it on a
van; and then do the reverse for the replacement.Â* But I'd be very
surprised if there's an option which is cheaper than manual labour
for an occasional job like that.



https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...uctId=25195656


Would that do it?


I can see that could be used to lift the door off the hinges -
assuming the toe plates are thin enough). I don't see how it gets the
door out through the doorway past the jambs. And the wheels look to me
a bit iffy for the steps down.


That's assuming that they actually take it away to paint. I suppose
that's rather likely, and as soon as steps are involved the machinery
becomes far more complex.



Actually, the way I'd do it with just a couple of blokes would be to
build a small platform over the steps, level with the inside. Use one of
those hoists to move the door outside onto the platform. Then hoick it
onto the back of a flat-bed truck with a crane.

Or, there must be a level-ish access somewhere for wheelchair users.

On 29/09/2020 14:09, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 13:02, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 07:03, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:32, GB wrote:
On 28/09/2020 22:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2020 21:06, GB wrote:

snip
I'm astonished that they move the door by hand.Â* Surely, some sort
of cradle/trolley makes sense?

I'm happy to be pointed to a tool that can be hired or bought that
could lift the door off its hinges, carry it out and load it on a
van; and then do the reverse for the replacement.Â* But I'd be very
surprised if there's an option which is cheaper than manual labour
for an occasional job like that.



https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...uctId=25195656


Would that do it?


I can see that could be used to lift the door off the hinges -
assuming the toe plates are thin enough). I don't see how it gets the
door out through the doorway past the jambs. And the wheels look to
me a bit iffy for the steps down.


That's assuming that they actually take it away to paint. I suppose
that's rather likely, and as soon as steps are involved the machinery
becomes far more complex.



Actually, the way I'd do it with just a couple of blokes would be to
build a small platform over the steps, level with the inside. Use one of
those hoists to move the door outside onto the platform. Then hoick it
onto the back of a flat-bed truck with a crane.

I'm still not clear how the door goes through the doorway on one of
those load movers. The best I can see is to use only one, with the
wheels in line (bicycle-style), and with the door tilted. But will the
door clear the jambs given the wheels on the mover mean the bottom edge
of the tilted door will be well above the floor? And how do you move it
straight when the wheels are tilted? But heh - it's only Grade 1 listed
woodwork & plaster

Or, there must be a level-ish access somewhere for wheelchair users.

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over the
steps. (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact they didn't
remove the steps and provide level access.)





--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over the
steps.Â* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact they didn't
remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?

GB wrote:

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?

The front-door is hardly the only way in ...

On 29/09/2020 20:55, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over the
steps.Â* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact they didn't
remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?



I know of step-free access at the rear of Downing Street but I've no
idea if staff use that or what'd be involved in moving the door from the
lobby through to the rear and then to transport. So I await with
interest Surely's response.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 30/09/2020 00:01, Robin wrote:
On 29/09/2020 20:55, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over the
steps.Â* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact they
didn't remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?



I know of step-free access at the rear of Downing Street but I've no
idea if staff use that or what'd be involved in moving the door from the
lobby through to the rear and then to transport.Â* So I await with
interest Surely's response.



Indeed. And of course we don't know whether there's a little workshop on
the premises. Even so, we seem to know more than the present government
does.

On 30/09/2020 17:07, GB wrote:
On 30/09/2020 00:01, Robin wrote:
On 29/09/2020 20:55, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over the
steps.Â* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact they
didn't remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?



I know of step-free access at the rear of Downing Street but I've no
idea if staff use that or what'd be involved in moving the door from
the lobby through to the rear and then to transport.Â* So I await with
interest Surely's response.



Indeed. And of course we don't know whether there's a little workshop on
the premises. Even so, we seem to know more than the present government
does.


I'd still like to know how the door would be moved around upright on a
trolley inside Downing Street to this "little workshop" (given the size
of the door, a space bigger than offices people fight for a share in there).

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 30/09/2020 20:52, Robin wrote:
On 30/09/2020 17:07, GB wrote:
On 30/09/2020 00:01, Robin wrote:
On 29/09/2020 20:55, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over the
steps.Â* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact they
didn't remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?



I know of step-free access at the rear of Downing Street but I've no
idea if staff use that or what'd be involved in moving the door from
the lobby through to the rear and then to transport.Â* So I await with
interest Surely's response.



Indeed. And of course we don't know whether there's a little workshop
on the premises. Even so, we seem to know more than the present
government does.


I'd still like to know how the door would be moved around upright on a
trolley inside Downing Street to this "little workshop" (given the size
of the door, a space bigger than offices people fight for a share in
there).


Indeed. I have to admit that I've been in the Treasury, but never in No.
10. So, I don't know my way round.

There are lots of ways to accomplish this task without 8 people.

The obvious one is to have a two-part door, with a lightweight fascia
that can be removed for painting.

Or a customised trolley that enables the door to be carried around at an
angle or rotated through 90 degrees.

This all reminds me of Maxwell's Demons.

In message , Robin
writes
On 30/09/2020 17:07, GB wrote:
On 30/09/2020 00:01, Robin wrote:
On 29/09/2020 20:55, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over
the steps.* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact
they didn't remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?



I know of step-free access at the rear of Downing Street but I've no
idea if staff use that or what'd be involved in moving the door from
the lobby through to the rear and then to transport.* So I await with
interest Surely's response.


Indeed. And of course we don't know whether there's a little
workshop on the premises. Even so, we seem to know more than the
present government does.


I'd still like to know how the door would be moved around upright on a
trolley inside Downing Street to this "little workshop" (given the size
of the door, a space bigger than offices people fight for a share in
there).

More importantly, given there are two huge windows either side, why
reinforce the door?


--
Tim Lamb

On 01/10/2020 08:11, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 30/09/2020 17:07, GB wrote:
On 30/09/2020 00:01, Robin wrote:
On 29/09/2020 20:55, GB wrote:
On 29/09/2020 16:09, Robin wrote:

AFAIK wheelchair access is by means of a portable ramp put over
theÂ* steps.Â* (There was some fuss a few years ago over the fact
theyÂ* didn't remove the steps and provide level access.)

But, dozens of people work there. It must be 'accessible'. Surely?



I know of step-free access at the rear of Downing Street but I've no
idea if staff use that or what'd be involved in moving the door from
the lobby through to the rear and then to transport.Â* So I await
with interest Surely's response.


Â*Indeed. And of course we don't know whether there's a little
workshop onÂ* the premises. Even so, we seem to know more than the
present governmentÂ* does.


I'd still like to know how the door would be moved around upright on a
trolley inside Downing Street to this "little workshop" (given the
size of the door, a space bigger than offices people fight for a share
in there).

More importantly, given there are two huge windows either side, why
reinforce the door?



Them's not ordinary windows.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:11:01 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'd still like to know how the door would be moved around upright
on a
trolley inside Downing Street to this "little workshop" (given the
size
of the door, a space bigger than offices people fight for a share
in
there).

More importantly, given there are two huge windows either side, why
reinforce the door?

You think those are ordinary windows and lace curtains? Think
again...

--
Cheers
Dave.