€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

On 14/08/2020 13:47, fred wrote:
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

Indirectly, when:
1) the stuff is out-of-date.
2) the gas has leaked.
3) you don't put it on the tyre valve properly and it sprays everywhere.
4) you find there's another hole and the type doesn't inflate properly.
etc...

In each case you get so annoyed you kick the wheel, so damaging the rim.

--

Jeff

"fred" wrote in message
...
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for
emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause irreparable
damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

So those inflation/seal products are as much use as a chocolate teapot: you
get a repairable puncture but in the absence of a spare, in order to
continue driving you have to use the product and therefore render the tyre
unrepairable. Sounds like a nice little earner for the tyre manufacturers.
There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that is fully
interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far and as fast
as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to be repaired.

On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
"fred" wrote in message
...
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for
emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause
irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

So those inflation/seal products are as much use as a chocolate teapot:
you get a repairable puncture but in the absence of a spare, in order to
continue driving you have to use the product and therefore render the
tyre unrepairable. Sounds like a nice little earner for the tyre
manufacturers. There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that
is fully interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far
and as fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to
be repaired.

+1 And yet lots of cars are sold without spare wheels. It isn't even
an option on some. "But punctures are very, Sir" Oh no, they're bl**dy not!
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 14/08/2020 16:51, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
"fred" wrote in message
...
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for
emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause
irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

So those inflation/seal products are as much use as a chocolate
teapot: you get a repairable puncture but in the absence of a spare,
in order to continue driving you have to use the product and therefore
render the tyre unrepairable. Sounds like a nice little earner for the
tyre manufacturers. There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare
that is fully interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used
as far and as fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured
tyre to be repaired.

+1Â*Â* And yet lots of cars are sold without spare wheels. It isn't even
an option on some. "But punctures are very, Sir" Oh no, they're bl**dy not!

Yep, plus locking wheel bolts, put on with an impact wrench, tight, so
that when you try to get them off by the side of the road you damage the
pattern, so they won't undo.

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially due
to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

On 14/08/2020 17:17, Pancho wrote:
On 14/08/2020 16:51, Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
"fred" wrote in message
...
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for
emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause
irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

So those inflation/seal products are as much use as a chocolate
teapot: you get a repairable puncture but in the absence of a spare,
in order to continue driving you have to use the product and
therefore render the tyre unrepairable. Sounds like a nice little
earner for the tyre manufacturers. There's no substitute for a proper
full-size spare that is fully interchangeable with the running wheels
and can be used as far and as fast as the real tyres until you can
take the punctured tyre to be repaired.

+1Â*Â* And yet lots of cars are sold without spare wheels. It isn't even
an option on some. "But punctures are very, Sir" Oh no, they're bl**dy
not!

Yep, plus locking wheel bolts, put on with an impact wrench, tight, so
that when you try to get them off by the side of the road you damage the
pattern, so they won't undo.

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially due
to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace the
tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage). Can't
see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't have to
drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the rim.

newshound wrote:

Pancho wrote:

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially
due to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace the
tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage). Can't
see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't have to
drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the rim.

My last but two car had no spare, it came with the bottle of goop and a
compressor, the latter was handy enough for slow punctures, but when I
had a blowout on the motorway, there was nothing the goop could have
done ... wait ages for flatbed recovery (included service from
manufacturer) get taken to only nearby tyre place that has required size
in stock, pay through nose, waste half of day.

Both cars since that one have space-savers which are "ok" I'll never buy
a car with no spare again.

On 14/08/2020 17:36, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:

Pancho wrote:

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially
due to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace the
tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage). Can't
see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't have to
drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the rim.

My last but two car had no spare, it came with the bottle of goop and a
compressor, the latter was handy enough for slow punctures, but when I
had a blowout on the motorway, there was nothing the goop could have
done ... wait ages for flatbed recovery (included service from
manufacturer) get taken to only nearby tyre place that has required size
in stock, pay through nose, waste half of day.

Both cars since that one have space-savers which are "ok" I'll never buy
a car with no spare again.

I find it interesting that although the manufactures will give you a
bottle of goop but no spare tyre (ordinary or space-saver), they seem to
have a space in the boot for the spare tyre, and will often have one
available for you to buy as an optional extra!

--

Jeff

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:47:14 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

“Tire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,” Akers told me. “We find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire you’re repairing.”

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

Pass. But they are often very different to the solution provided by
the likes of Contiseal tyres:

https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/...gies/contiseal

or the Punctureseal ...

https://www.punctureseal.com/

.... I've used it on all sorts of vehicles (the last being a mobility
scooter), even post puncture repairs and never had any further issues
(20 years use).

But I guess it's like all things, you have to get the right stuff,
know how to use it, understand how it works and where the real world
risks are.

Bottom line ... I would rather not have to suffer a puncture in the
first place (even with TPS) and especially not want any of my family
trying to change a wheel or even waiting on the side of a busy
motorway at night for the recovery services, if it wasn't unavoidable.

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:58:38 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 14/08/2020 17:36, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:

Pancho wrote:

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially
due to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace
the tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage).
Can't see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't
have to drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the
rim.

My last but two car had no spare, it came with the bottle of goop and a
compressor, the latter was handy enough for slow punctures, but when I
had a blowout on the motorway, there was nothing the goop could have
done ... wait ages for flatbed recovery (included service from
manufacturer) get taken to only nearby tyre place that has required
size in stock, pay through nose, waste half of day.

Both cars since that one have space-savers which are "ok" I'll never
buy a car with no spare again.

I find it interesting that although the manufactures will give you a
bottle of goop but no spare tyre (ordinary or space-saver), they seem to
have a space in the boot for the spare tyre, and will often have one
available for you to buy as an optional extra!

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 14/08/2020 22:28, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:47:14 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

Pass. But they are often very different to the solution provided by
the likes of Contiseal tyres:

https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/...gies/contiseal

or the Punctureseal ...

https://www.punctureseal.com/

... I've used it on all sorts of vehicles (the last being a mobility
scooter), even post puncture repairs and never had any further issues
(20 years use).

But I guess it's like all things, you have to get the right stuff,
know how to use it, understand how it works and where the real world
risks are.

Bottom line ... I would rather not have to suffer a puncture in the
first place (even with TPS) and especially not want any of my family
trying to change a wheel or even waiting on the side of a busy
motorway at night for the recovery services, if it wasn't unavoidable.

Cheers, T i m


some people are just fanny's and can't do practical things .....

On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 1:47:16 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

The gunge covers the entire rim inside the tyre and can't be removed without a lot of work.
It prevents the new tyre from seating, hence it leaks between tyre and rim. Also leaks round the valve.

There was once a further gunge product to repair leaks of this sort due to corrosion on the rim but its now been banned. Dunno why.

Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:58:38 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 14/08/2020 17:36, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:

Pancho wrote:

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially
due to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace
the tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage).
Can't see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't
have to drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the
rim.

My last but two car had no spare, it came with the bottle of goop and a
compressor, the latter was handy enough for slow punctures, but when I
had a blowout on the motorway, there was nothing the goop could have
done ... wait ages for flatbed recovery (included service from
manufacturer) get taken to only nearby tyre place that has required
size in stock, pay through nose, waste half of day.

Both cars since that one have space-savers which are "ok" I'll never
buy a car with no spare again.

I find it interesting that although the manufactures will give you a
bottle of goop but no spare tyre (ordinary or space-saver), they seem to
have a space in the boot for the spare tyre, and will often have one
available for you to buy as an optional extra!

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.

Does the weight of a spare tyre *really* affect consumption much?
Does anyone have any actual figures? The extra weight is only going
to affect cosumption significantly when accelerating, the steady speed
mpg will be very little affected.

I'd have thought it's simply the extra cost (and thus increase in
selling price) that pushes manufacturers towards 'no spare'.

--
Chris Green
·

On 14/08/2020 23:41, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:58:38 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 14/08/2020 17:36, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:
Pancho wrote:

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially
due to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace
the tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage).
Can't see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't
have to drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the
rim.

My last but two car had no spare, it came with the bottle of goop and a
compressor, the latter was handy enough for slow punctures, but when I
had a blowout on the motorway, there was nothing the goop could have
done ... wait ages for flatbed recovery (included service from
manufacturer) get taken to only nearby tyre place that has required
size in stock, pay through nose, waste half of day.

Both cars since that one have space-savers which are "ok" I'll never
buy a car with no spare again.

I find it interesting that although the manufactures will give you a
bottle of goop but no spare tyre (ordinary or space-saver), they seem to
have a space in the boot for the spare tyre, and will often have one
available for you to buy as an optional extra!

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.

They could test it without the spare and quote those figures. And take
the door mirrors off.

--
Max Demian

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 09:18:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

snip

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.

Does the weight of a spare tyre *really* affect consumption much?

Much? No. Enough to make a measurable difference, probably.

Does anyone have any actual figures?

I would like to think the manufacturers would.

The extra weight is only going
to affect cosumption significantly when accelerating, the steady speed
mpg will be very little affected.

And hill climbing, more energy being used on the way up than recovered
on the way down?

I'd have thought it's simply the extra cost (and thus increase in
selling price) that pushes manufacturers towards 'no spare'.

I can't imaging the manufacturing cost of a wheel and tyre would be
much on even a £6K car but more like a combination of variables that
justify leaving it out.

1) The weight so fuel consumption so emissions.

2) The ability of a typical driver these days to be able to change
one.

3) The likelihood of someone bothering to change one, even if they
could and had one (and it being useable), and so relying on the
recovery services providing one or dealing with the puncture.

The irony of all of this is 'the chances are' you wouldn't need to
stop and change a wheel, if your tyres were pre treated with
Puncturseal (I mention that specifically because it's good and I know
and trust it).

It doesn't 'cover the rim' and isn't corrosive, is water soluble so
can simply be washed out if required, doesn't interfere with TPS and
is there ready to work, reducing the damage that might be done by
leaving the object stuck in the tyre for a long time or if the tyre
ran partially deflated for any time (and it doesn't take much 'time'
to do that at 70 mph).

Plus all the advantages of applying it to caravans and trailers, where
you don't generally have TPS (although you can) and the chances are
the tyre (at best) has been wrecked before you even notice something
is wrong or end up on you side on the motorway.

As mentioned, as soon as we got the mobility scooter on approval for
my Mum, the first thing I did was apply Punctureseal to all 4 tyres
because I'd rather bear that cost if we don't take the scooter than
even have one puncture whilst out and ~3 miles away from home (or a
road) with her.

Cheers, T i m

On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
"fred" wrote in message
...
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for
emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause
irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

So those inflation/seal products are as much use as a chocolate teapot:
you get a repairable puncture but in the absence of a spare, in order to
continue driving you have to use the product and therefore render the
tyre unrepairable. Sounds like a nice little earner for the tyre
manufacturers. There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that
is fully interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far
and as fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to
be repaired.

To do that on most cars today would require carrying *two* full spares
since they now have a spin handedness. I can live with having a thin
spare or more expensive a runflat that limits range to 50 miles and
speed to 50mph. The latter being more than a bit scary on a motorway.

Most punctures that I have had were anyway not repairable being serious
gashes to tyres resulting from hitting sharp metal at motorway speeds. I
think I have had roughly one per decade since I started driving.

I was very impressed with my runflats in this situation apart from a
bang and dashboard light coming on to say loss of tyre pressure there
was no loss of control at all and it was straight forward to pull up on
the hard shoulder to examine the damage. Trying to pump it up was a lost
cause. Off the motorway ASAP limped home 10 miles at a time on a
runflat. I was a little bit worried by how hot it got even at 40mph.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 15/08/2020 10:50, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 09:18:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

snip

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.

Does the weight of a spare tyre *really* affect consumption much?

Much? No. Enough to make a measurable difference, probably.

Does anyone have any actual figures?

I would like to think the manufacturers would.

The extra weight is only going
to affect cosumption significantly when accelerating, the steady speed
mpg will be very little affected.


I'd imagine the relationship would be fairly linear? So wheel/tyre @
25kg - 2% of the average car's weight? At 10000 miles a year, 200 'free'
miles, say £30/year.

For myself I'd rather see weight lost elsewhere. I could start by eating
fewer pies :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

On 15/08/2020 11:30, RJH wrote:
On 15/08/2020 10:50, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 09:18:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

snip

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.

Does the weight of a spare tyre *really* affect consumption much?

Much? No. Enough to make a measurable difference, probably.

Does anyone have any actual figures?

I would like to think the manufacturers would.

The extra weight is only going
to affect cosumption significantly when accelerating, the steady speed
mpg will be very little affected.


I'd imagine the relationship would be fairly linear? So wheel/tyre @
25kg - 2% of the average car's weight? At 10000 miles a year, 200 'free'
miles, say £30/year.


No, at any reasonable speed air resistance dominates. I think this drag
is a square law with speed. So the loss from extra weight due to:
inertia and added rolling resistance is very dependent on the type of
driving you do.

We had the same debate about bicycles a couple of weeks ago.

In article ,
NY wrote:
There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that is fully
interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far and as
fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to be
repaired.

In my car, it would take up most of the boot space. And it has different
sizes back and front.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
NY wrote:
There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that is fully
interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far and as
fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to be
repaired.

In my car, it would take up most of the boot space. And it has different
sizes back and front.

I keep meaning to buy a cheap steel wheel and tyre to keep at home as a
spare, so at least I can start a journey from home if I have a puncture that
has only become apparent after the car has sat on the drive for a day or so.
Even if I still have to rely on the idiotic space-saver for a puncture that
develops while I'm out and about - and that has only happened to me once in
40 years. I noticed the tyre was flat when I returned to the car after
shopping in a supermarket and had to wait for the car next to me to go
before I could get sufficient access to remove and replace the wheel. As the
car park was very full, I got a lot of abuse for "blocking" a space for the
couple of minutes it took me to change the wheel.

I once had a spare wheel go missing! On my Peugeot 306, the spare was in a
wire cage below the boot floor, secured by a bolt that was only accessible
from inside (to avoid theft). I was on holiday and I set off once morning
from the cottage where I was staying. About a mile down the road I heard a
strange grating sound: it was the cage scraping on the tarmac. I went back
up the lane (typically about 10 cars and a tractor per hour) looking on the
road and in the ditches, but there was no sign of it. That required a detour
to the local town and a wait of about an hour while a wheel was located and
a tyre fitted to it. That cage was a really nuisance. The only time I've
ever called out the RAC for a puncture was when I was run off the road by an
oncoming car (I had priority) and the tyre wall got ripped by the kerb. When
I came to get the spare out, the thread of the bolt had seized to the nut on
the cage - and the stupid f*ckers at Peugeot had put a semi-cylindrical
notch in a totally round bolt head, rather than a wheelnut-sized hexagonal
head. You were supposed to use the flattened end of the wheelbrace as a
crude screwdriver in the semi-cylindrical notch. The thread had seized to
the point where I couldn't get any purchase on the "screwdriver" because the
"blade" kept pulling out of the notch. The idiots had even given it round
sides rather that flat vertical ones to make sure that the screwdriver would
climb out of the notch ;-) It took the RAC man about an hour, heating the
nut with a blowtorch (carefully shielding the tyre!) and applying a lot of
WD40, grease etc, before he could get it to shift. He was at the point of
contemplating using an angle grinder to grind a couple of flats on the round
head so he could grip it with a Mole grip.

On 15/08/2020 11:53, Pancho wrote:
On 15/08/2020 11:30, RJH wrote:
On 15/08/2020 10:50, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 09:18:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

snip

Because that extra weight nixes the fuel consumption/emissions.

Does the weight of a spare tyre *really* affect consumption much?

Much? No. Enough to make a measurable difference, probably.

Does anyone have any actual figures?

I would like to think the manufacturers would.

The extra weight is only going
to affect cosumption significantly when accelerating, the steady speed
mpg will be very little affected.


I'd imagine the relationship would be fairly linear? So wheel/tyre @
25kg - 2% of the average car's weight? At 10000 miles a year, 200
'free' miles, say £30/year.


No, at any reasonable speed air resistance dominates. I think this drag
is a square law with speed.

I think its a cube law actually. Oh - my bad - the POWER is cubic, the
DRAG is square law as you said.

i.e. if you can reach 50mph with 10 bhp, you will need 80bhp to get to
100mph...and 640bhp to get to 200mph, which puts a 2CV, a modern saloon,
and a racing car engine in perspective..


So the loss from extra weight due to:
inertia and added rolling resistance is very dependent on the type of
driving you do.

We had the same debate about bicycles a couple of weeks ago.

Yes - in cars, weight is crucial for stop start motoring efficiency,
although regen braking helps with that a lot.

In the case of e.g. a train, with limited start stop it is far less an
issue,and weight helps grip with steel wheels on a steel rail...

If rolling resistance is constant, the power goes up as the speed. So it
represents a limit on the mpg you cam get even crawling along at very
low speed.


Definitely bicycle style narrow tyres are way better than modern low
profiles. But have no traction braking or cornering potential.


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

fred wrote:
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

Maybe it's when the paddle-tool at the beginning
"breaks the bead" and separates the tire from the
rim, along the bead ? There are some assumptions
about the tire separating easily from the rim.

"Tire Machine: Tire Remove & Install"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsOUtR_lTeE

Paul

"NY" Wrote in message:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
NY wrote:
There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that is fully
interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far and as
fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to be
repaired.

In my car, it would take up most of the boot space. And it has different
sizes back and front.

I keep meaning to buy a cheap steel wheel and tyre to keep at home as a
spare, so at least I can start a journey from home if I have a puncture that
has only become apparent after the car has sat on the drive for a day or so.
Even if I still have to rely on the idiotic space-saver for a puncture that
develops while I'm out and about - and that has only happened to me once in
40 years. I noticed the tyre was flat when I returned to the car after
shopping in a supermarket and had to wait for the car next to me to go
before I could get sufficient access to remove and replace the wheel. As the
car park was very full, I got a lot of abuse for "blocking" a space for the
couple of minutes it took me to change the wheel.

I once had a spare wheel go missing! On my Peugeot 306, the spare was in a
wire cage below the boot floor, secured by a bolt that was only accessible
from inside (to avoid theft). I was on holiday and I set off once morning
from the cottage where I was staying. About a mile down the road I heard a
strange grating sound: it was the cage scraping on the tarmac. I went back
up the lane (typically about 10 cars and a tractor per hour) looking on the
road and in the ditches, but there was no sign of it. That required a detour
to the local town and a wait of about an hour while a wheel was located and
a tyre fitted to it. That cage was a really nuisance. The only time I've
ever called out the RAC for a puncture was when I was run off the road by an
oncoming car (I had priority) and the tyre wall got ripped by the kerb. When
I came to get the spare out, the thread of the bolt had seized to the nut on
the cage - and the stupid f*ckers at Peugeot had put a semi-cylindrical
notch in a totally round bolt head, rather than a wheelnut-sized hexagonal
head. You were supposed to use the flattened end of the wheelbrace as a
crude screwdriver in the semi-cylindrical notch. The thread had seized to
the point where I couldn't get any purchase on the "screwdriver" because the
"blade" kept pulling out of the notch. The idiots had even given it round
sides rather that flat vertical ones to make sure that the screwdriver would
climb out of the notch ;-) It took the RAC man about an hour, heating the
nut with a blowtorch (carefully shielding the tyre!) and applying a lot of
WD40, grease etc, before he could get it to shift. He was at the point of
contemplating using an angle grinder to grind a couple of flats on the round
head so he could grip it with a Mole grip.



I would've gone straight for the moles...
--
Jimk


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harry Wrote in message:
On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 1:47:16 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
?Tire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for emergency use only,? Akers told me. ?We find they can cause irreparable damage to the rim of the tire you?re repairing.?

Really ?

How would they damage the rim?

The gunge covers the entire rim inside the tyre and can't be removed without a lot of work.
It prevents the new tyre from seating, hence it leaks between tyre and rim. Also leaks round the valve.

There was once a further gunge product to repair leaks of this sort due to corrosion on the rim but its now been banned. Dunno why.


Not D i m's favourite by any chance?
--
Jimk


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On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:51:22 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:


+1 And yet lots of cars are sold without spare wheels. It isn't even
an option on some. "But punctures are very, Sir" Oh no, they're bl**dy not!

The last time I changed a wheel was nearly 20 years ago. I imagine
that in relation to the number of miles driven punctures are rare.
Don't remember the last time I had to change a bulb.

On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
"fred" wrote in message
...
€œTire flat inflation and seal products do work however they are for
emergency use only,€� Akers told me. €œWe find they can cause
irreparable damage to the rim of the tire youre repairing.€�

So those inflation/seal products are as much use as a chocolate teapot:
you get a repairable puncture but in the absence of a spare, in order to
continue driving you have to use the product and therefore render the
tyre unrepairable. Sounds like a nice little earner for the tyre
manufacturers. There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that
is fully interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far
and as fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to
be repaired.

My Astra K came with no spare, just a can of gloop. Ah! that'll be why
its got 4 odd/different make tyres then .. . .
A large sum of money later (about the cost of 2 or 3 tyres) and I have
the correct (new, not available 2nd hand in 3 months of looking on Ebay)
space-saver spare, tools and the hard foam tray.
Dear? yes, but the average punters SOP seems to be......
Dash shows low tyre pressure -- ignore it until the tyre is ruined --
try (and fail or don't bother) to use the can of gloop either due to a
RTFM fail or the tyre is split. Drive (on flat tyre) until you
remember/payday to get tyre sorted --- get the cheapest tyre available
fitted. Don't replace the gloop can (at £30). Next puncture -- rinse and
repeat, next puncture -- rinse and repeat .... etc ....

--
Ask how to email me.

On 15/08/2020 17:14, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:51:22 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:


+1 And yet lots of cars are sold without spare wheels. It isn't even
an option on some. "But punctures are very, Sir" Oh no, they're bl**dy not!

The last time I changed a wheel was nearly 20 years ago. I imagine
that in relation to the number of miles driven punctures are rare.
Don't remember the last time I had to change a bulb.

Mmm. I changed several on the last car. Bulbs. haven't changed a tyre on
my own vehgicle since some Goth stuck a knife in the sidewall about 7
years ago

Did change someone else's a couple of years back



--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Peter Johnson wrote:

I imagine that in relation to the number of miles driven punctures
are rare.

Three (all repairable) in the first year on the last car, plus another
one later on. None so far on this car.

Don't remember the last time I had to change a bulb.

Mmm. I changed several on the last car.

Had to replace rear indicator lamps due to orange paint dip fading for MOT.

"Peter Johnson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:51:22 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:


+1 And yet lots of cars are sold without spare wheels. It isn't even
an option on some. "But punctures are very, Sir" Oh no, they're bl**dy
not!

The last time I changed a wheel was nearly 20 years ago. I imagine
that in relation to the number of miles driven punctures are rare.
Don't remember the last time I had to change a bulb.

I last had to change a wheel about 2 years ago (I'd forgotten about it till
now) when I was forced to take evasive action once again - in this case when
a tractor pulled out to overtake a queue of parked cars on his side of the
road and just kept on coming - he didn't even stop to give me time to stop
and reverse out of his way which I would gladly have done because it's a
damn sight easier to reverse a car than a tractor with a baler on the back,
even if he should have waited for me in the first place. I drove on the
verge just in time to avoid him and clipped the inside wall of my front tyre
against a sharp bit of tarmac on the edge of the road as my wheel went into
a rut (I went back to look the following day because it was only down the
road from where I was living at the time). I really should have reported the
tractor for careless (inconsiderate, bullying) driving.

I went through a phase of having to change headlight bulbs - about 1 every
few months. My local garage recommended using more expensive branded bulbs
(Osram etc) rather than Halfords own make. And I've not had to do one since.
Odd how it only affected my present car and not my previous one, even though
I used Halfords bulbs in both and was driving on the same roads (same
potholes and bumps). I do wonder whether there is an intermittent voltage
surge, even though the voltage regulator has been checked to see that the
voltage remains within limits at all engine speeds, or whether the
suspension is a bit firmer, transmitting bumps through to the filaments more
than on the old car.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:58:38 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 14/08/2020 17:36, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:

Pancho wrote:

I was told the reason they got rid of the spare wheel was partially
due to being able to quote better fuel efficiency.

Could be true. My main car has been one such for six years now. I had
one slow puncture which I reflated to get to a tyre shop where it was
plugged, one on holiday where I used the goo and then had to replace the
tyre. So maybe I have been lucky (not particularly high mileage). Can't
see how you would damage the rim, except perhaps that you don't have to
drive a deflated low profile tyre so far before you are on the rim.

My last but two car had no spare, it came with the bottle of goop and a
compressor, the latter was handy enough for slow punctures, but when I
had a blowout on the motorway, there was nothing the goop could have
done ... wait ages for flatbed recovery (included service from
manufacturer) get taken to only nearby tyre place that has required size
in stock, pay through nose, waste half of day.

Both cars since that one have space-savers which are "ok" I'll never buy
a car with no spare again.

I find it interesting that although the manufactures will give you a
bottle of goop but no spare tyre (ordinary or space-saver), they seem to
have a space in the boot for the spare tyre, and will often have one
available for you to buy as an optional extra!

My Seat Ibiza is like that. I threw away the evil goop and bought a
apare tyre instead. Only trouble was that the buggers had only
provided a big enough space for a 'space-saver' tyre.
--
Dave W

"Dave W" wrote in message
...
My Seat Ibiza is like that. I threw away the evil goop and bought a
apare tyre instead. Only trouble was that the buggers had only
provided a big enough space for a 'space-saver' tyre.

That is the problem: no-one seems to think that people want a
fully-functional spare wheel which can be used as far and as fast as you
like, so you can take the flat tyre to a garage when it's convenient for
you, and not as a dire emergency before you can continue your journey -
assuming your journey is more than the distance limit that is recommended
for the space-saver. It comes under the heading of "not making a drama out
of a crisis".

The idea of supplying goop to fill a punctured tyre is utterly idiotic
because it means that every puncture you get, you need to buy a new tyre.
Nice little earner for the tyre makers, though :-(

On three occasions when I travelled up to stay with my girlfriend (several
hours' journey away) I came to set off on Sunday night and found I had a
puncture which was not apparent when I last drove the car - in one case it
had been fine only a few hours earlier. Because I had a spacesaver, and had
to travel a couple of hundred miles, I had to abandon my plans to return
home on the Sunday night, and instead had to wait until the morning so I
could take the tyre to be repaired - and on each occasion, it *was*
repaired, not replaced. With a full-size spare, as on all my previous cars,
I'd have been on my way after the minor inconvenience of changing the wheel
which only takes a couple of minutes.

"NY" Wrote in message:
"Dave W" wrote in message
...
My Seat Ibiza is like that. I threw away the evil goop and bought a
apare tyre instead. Only trouble was that the buggers had only
provided a big enough space for a 'space-saver' tyre.

That is the problem: no-one seems to think that people want a
fully-functional spare wheel which can be used as far and as fast as you
like, so you can take the flat tyre to a garage when it's convenient for
you, and not as a dire emergency before you can continue your journey -
assuming your journey is more than the distance limit that is recommended
for the space-saver. It comes under the heading of "not making a drama out
of a crisis".

The idea of supplying goop to fill a punctured tyre is utterly idiotic
because it means that every puncture you get, you need to buy a new tyre.
Nice little earner for the tyre makers, though :-(

On three occasions when I travelled up to stay with my girlfriend (several
hours' journey away) I came to set off on Sunday night and found I had a
puncture which was not apparent when I last drove the car - in one case it
had been fine only a few hours earlier.

She shagging around?

Or was she a bunny boiler?

--
Jimk


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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that is fully
interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far and as
fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to be
repaired.

I've got a skinny spare. It'll get me somewhere I can buy the correct
replacement for the front or rear that's flat.

(The fronts are narrower than the rears.)

Andy

On 15/08/2020 10:50, T i m wrote:
And hill climbing, more energy being used on the way up than recovered
on the way down?

How's that work then? You take a weight up against gravity, then you'll
get the same back on the way down.

Of course in practice there will be occasions when the extra 1% weight
will make you drop a gear.

And other occasions where on the way down it'll be the difference
between a tickle of throttle burning fuel very inefficiently, and
throttle shut burning none at all.

Andy

On 15/08/2020 22:37, Dave W wrote:
My Seat Ibiza is like that. I threw away the evil goop and bought a
apare tyre instead. Only trouble was that the buggers had only
provided a big enough space for a 'space-saver' tyre.

WTF do they think you are going to do with the flat tyre you took off?

Andy

"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2020 16:25, NY wrote:
There's no substitute for a proper full-size spare that is fully
interchangeable with the running wheels and can be used as far and as
fast as the real tyres until you can take the punctured tyre to be
repaired.

I've got a skinny spare. It'll get me somewhere I can buy the correct
replacement for the front or rear that's flat.

That's fine as long as you don't discover the puncture out of hours when
tyre repair places are closed. And almost every time I've had a puncture,
that's when I've discovered it, often as I was about to begin a long
journey. It is a myth the punctures only happen when tyre-repair places are
open, that the repair place is on the route that you were planning to take
anyway, that they have your tyre in stock and that they can fit it as soon
as you turn up. With a full-size (ie fully-interchangable) spare, it doesn't
matter if the tyre takes a day or so to be delivered: you leave it with
them, get on with your life and pick it up when it's ready - and you have
full use of your car in the meantime.

For the record, most of the punctures I've had have been nails/screws
through the tread. I must spend a lot of time driving on roads where people
have lost a van-load of screws ;-)

(The fronts are narrower than the rears.)

Why do manufacturers make cars with tyres which are not interchangeable - at
least front/back, if not side/side because of the opposite rotation problem.
It means you can't swap the tyres to even the wear.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:13:24 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 15/08/2020 10:50, T i m wrote:
And hill climbing, more energy being used on the way up than recovered
on the way down?

How's that work then? You take a weight up against gravity, then you'll
get the same back on the way down.

Except the thing pushing that weight up the hill isn't likely to be
working so inefficiently as it might on the way down?

Of course in practice there will be occasions when the extra 1% weight
will make you drop a gear.

Quite.

And other occasions where on the way down it'll be the difference
between a tickle of throttle burning fuel very inefficiently, and
throttle shut burning none at all.

Yes, but ignoring any of that, it will still take an additional energy
'input' to get that extra weight up the hill that's unlikely to be
recouped 100% on the way down.

The only way it wouldn't would be if you used a 100% efficient
machine?

And I'm guessing that's why they often don't fit spare wheels, to save
the weight (also) because of such differentials?


Cheers, T i m

In article ,
NY wrote:
Why do manufacturers make cars with tyres which are not interchangeable
- at least front/back, if not side/side because of the opposite rotation
problem.


Different sizes back and front are usually done to give better handling.
But not on shopping trolleys, I'd guess.


It means you can't swap the tyres to even the wear.

That hasn't been recommended for many a year. Front and rear tyres develop
a different wear pattern. Swap them over when part worn and you could get
less than ideal handling until they scrub themselves in. Unless you did it
frequently. And it means buying 4 new tyres all at once.

--
*I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
NY wrote:
Why do manufacturers make cars with tyres which are not interchangeable
- at least front/back, if not side/side because of the opposite rotation
problem.


Different sizes back and front are usually done to give better handling.

Useful feature in lundun?

But not on shopping trolleys, I'd guess.

True colours Duhve?


It means you can't swap the tyres to even the wear.

That hasn't been recommended for many a year. Front and rear tyres develop
a different wear pattern. Swap them over when part worn and you could get
less than ideal handling until they scrub themselves in.

Sounds dubious. Rear tyres wear evenly across, fronts lose their
shoulders from scrub. Swap em around & you get "new" shoulders on
the front pair, no real detriment to the rears...


Unless you did it
frequently. And it means buying 4 new tyres all at once.

All matching...
--
Jimk


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On 16/08/2020 21:18, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 15/08/2020 22:37, Dave W wrote:
My Seat Ibiza is like that. I threw away the evil goop and bought a
apare tyre instead. Only trouble was that the buggers had only
provided a big enough space for a 'space-saver' tyre.

WTF do they think you are going to do with the flat tyre you took off?

Andy
you put it in the boot, loose


--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.