I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them, I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us. Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls. But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet, and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful, impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

--
Clive Page

On 10/08/2020 11:36, Clive Page wrote:
I help to run a club.Â* Over 90% of members now communicate by email,
book events online, etc.Â* But I'd like to help those who don't.Â* Most of
them, I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background.Â* Given
the emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are
losing contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be
able to suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest
of us.Â* Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many
stories of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone
calls.Â* But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew
how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may
need a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it
to the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service.Â* But there
are a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little
technical knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network.Â* But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or
pay-as-you go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider.Â* I
can see all this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here?Â* I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.



--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

In article , Clive Page
wrote:
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book
events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them,
I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the
emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing
contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to
suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us.
Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories
of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls.
But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need
a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to
the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are
a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical
knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you
go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all
this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

we had a Parish Councillor, younger than me, who could only access the
internet via her phone. Totally useless, she couldn't read any attachments,
let alone 3 or 3 page documents. All documents had to be printed out for
her.

A couple of years ago, I raised the subject at the AGM of a large national
charity saying they were disenfranchising a significant portion of their
membership by putting so much on the internet and cutting down on the paper
magazine., "We're a conservation charity - we must save paper" was the
reply.

Possibly a charity like 'Age UK' might be able to help.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Clive Page wrote:
It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you
go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all
this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

I'd suggest slimming the tablet choice down to 'buy an iPad'. It'll be less
complicated than an Android or Windows device. Not so cheap, although
refurb options are cheaper.

If you have a modern iPad many have eSIMs that mean you don't need the
physical SIM card, you just pick a network from the screen:
https://www.truphone.com/apple-sim/
Apple Stores also provide physical SIMs that work on the same basis.

As well as Truphone, EE and O2 have eSIM tariffs although they need physical
packs with QR codes and stuff.

In traditional-SIM land, Three Data Reward gives free 200MB per month:
https://www.three.co.uk/Free_SIM_MBB/Order
which might be enough for some users. After that data is 1p/MB.
That might be enough of a starting point to then discover they use lots of
data and need to upgrade to a monthly plan.

Email provider - I think you get offered an iCloud email address as part of
the iOS signup process. I don't know anything about it, but it's probably
good enough for someone without specific needs, and presumably the mail
client gets preconfigured.

Theo

On Monday, 10 August 2020 11:36:08 UTC+1, Clive Page wrote:
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them, I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us. Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls. But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet, and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful, impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

The very people who might find a tablet the best approach. But if you add "affordable" that usually means Android which seems to be more difficult to maintain and use than Apple IOS. Also, there can be severe annoyance when they find that updates and maintenance only apply for a couple of years.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:00:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help
here?Â*
I've trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that
is
useful, impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

The biggest problem is that there are just too many variables to
handle in a simple, easy to understand, guide.

To start with what methods of 'net access is available at the
location where service is required? I varies over very short
distances, We have 5-6 Mbps ADSL2+ and 4G (but only from one of the
four networks). Next property down the hill no 4G and worse ADSL,
next one still no 4G but does have FTCC...

None of this might apply in a town, with blanket 4G from all four
mobile networks, FTTC from a cabinet almost on every street corner
(or even FTTP), cable TV provider?

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Then need to find an mobile operator that uses a network that offers
at least 3G at the location required on a tarrif that doesn't cost an
arm and a leg.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.

I don't rate the experience of using as smartphone for your only net
access very highly. It works and is just about useable but it's not a
pleasant experience. Small screen, tiny touch keyboard, not exactly
"elderly friendly". Failing eyesight, arthritus giving poor fine
motor control, tremor and touch screens don't mix well or trying to
hold something close enough to read.

These days the device probably needs to be a laptop. Tablets suffer
the same as a phone but not quite as badly for the larger (10")
models. A desktop system would probably need a webcam and microphone
added, maybe even WiFI to avoid having to run an ethernet cable.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Theo
wrote:
Clive Page wrote:
It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect
up via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which
tablet, and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or
pay-as-you go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I
can see all this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it
before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

I'd suggest slimming the tablet choice down to 'buy an iPad'. It'll be
less complicated than an Android or Windows device. Not so cheap,
although refurb options are cheaper.

If you have a modern iPad many have eSIMs that mean you don't need the
physical SIM card, you just pick a network from the screen:
https://www.truphone.com/apple-sim/ Apple Stores also provide physical
SIMs that work on the same basis.

As well as Truphone, EE and O2 have eSIM tariffs although they need
physical packs with QR codes and stuff.

In traditional-SIM land, Three Data Reward gives free 200MB per month:
https://www.three.co.uk/Free_SIM_MBB/Order which might be enough for some
users. After that data is 1p/MB. That might be enough of a starting
point to then discover they use lots of data and need to upgrade to a
monthly plan.

Email provider - I think you get offered an iCloud email address as part
of the iOS signup process. I don't know anything about it, but it's
probably good enough for someone without specific needs, and presumably
the mail client gets preconfigured.

Not everyone gets a decent mobile phone signal indoors. I don't, but a foot
outside the front door, I can just get a signal of a sort. I can alos get
one by leaning out of an upstaires window. Neither would be a good way of
convincing someone to "use the internet".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 10/08/2020 11:36, Clive Page wrote:
I help to run a club.Â* Over 90% of members now communicate by email,
book events online, etc.Â* But I'd like to help those who don't.Â* Most of
them, I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background.Â* Given
the emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are
losing contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be
able to suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest
of us.Â* Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many
stories of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone
calls.Â* But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew
how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may
need a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it
to the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service.Â* But there
are a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little
technical knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network.Â* But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or
pay-as-you go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider.Â* I
can see all this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here?Â* I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.


Maybe they could be encouraged to learn to use the computers at a public
library. Once they have done this they might then want to have a
computer and an Internet connection at home. You could then discuss
with them what they might do. There is also things like Netflix which
use a TV's Internet connection.


--
Michael Chare

Dave Liquorice wrote:
To start with what methods of 'net access is available at the
location where service is required? I varies over very short
distances, We have 5-6 Mbps ADSL2+ and 4G (but only from one of the
four networks). Next property down the hill no 4G and worse ADSL,
next one still no 4G but does have FTCC...

Someone willing to help out could probably solve that one with a 'survey'.
For example, a small box (raspberry pi?) with an internal 4G dongle.

Give it/post it to the user, say 'plug this in where you would use your
tablet'. Wait until the green light comes on, then unplug and send it back.
The device makes a note of the available networks, their signal strength and
a timestamp. Maybe it sends that via 4G when plugged in, maybe you just
wait to receive it in the post. Then you pick a SIM card from an
appropriate network and issue it to the user.

These days the device probably needs to be a laptop. Tablets suffer
the same as a phone but not quite as badly for the larger (10")
models. A desktop system would probably need a webcam and microphone
added, maybe even WiFI to avoid having to run an ethernet cable.

There's two issues with laptops. One is trackpads - it needs people to know
that they move the pointer to screen by moving their fingers on the
trackpad. This might be an unfamiliar skill and tricky to grasp for some,
whereas touching things with your fingers is natural.

The other is Windows, which is not beginner friendly. Possibly ChromeOS
might fix that one, and there are Chromebooks with LTE. Some have touch
screens which avoids the trackpad issue. I don't know how ChromeOS is for
beginners, I haven't used it. It might be more hungry on the data
connection though.

Theo

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:00:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help
here?Â
I've trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that
is
useful, impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

The biggest problem is that there are just too many variables to
handle in a simple, easy to understand, guide.

To start with what methods of 'net access is available at the
location where service is required? I varies over very short
distances, We have 5-6 Mbps ADSL2+ and 4G (but only from one of the
four networks). Next property down the hill no 4G and worse ADSL,
next one still no 4G but does have FTCC...

None of this might apply in a town, with blanket 4G from all four
mobile networks, FTTC from a cabinet almost on every street corner
(or even FTTP), cable TV provider?

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Then need to find an mobile operator that uses a network that offers
at least 3G at the location required on a tarrif that doesn't cost an
arm and a leg.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.

I don't rate the experience of using as smartphone for your only net
access very highly. It works and is just about useable but it's not a
pleasant experience. Small screen, tiny touch keyboard, not exactly
"elderly friendly". Failing eyesight, arthritus giving poor fine
motor control, tremor and touch screens don't mix well or trying to
hold something close enough to read.

These days the device probably needs to be a laptop. Tablets suffer
the same as a phone but not quite as badly for the larger (10")
models. A desktop system would probably need a webcam and microphone
added, maybe even WiFI to avoid having to run an ethernet cable.


SWMBO bought an "all in one" dektop pc earlier in the year. Camera and
micreophone are incorporated into the monitor surround.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article , Theo
wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
To start with what methods of 'net access is available at the location
where service is required? I varies over very short distances, We have
5-6 Mbps ADSL2+ and 4G (but only from one of the four networks). Next
property down the hill no 4G and worse ADSL, next one still no 4G but
does have FTCC...

Someone willing to help out could probably solve that one with a
'survey'. For example, a small box (raspberry pi?) with an internal 4G
dongle.

Give it/post it to the user, say 'plug this in where you would use your
tablet'. Wait until the green light comes on, then unplug and send it
back. The device makes a note of the available networks, their signal
strength and a timestamp. Maybe it sends that via 4G when plugged in,
maybe you just wait to receive it in the post. Then you pick a SIM card
from an appropriate network and issue it to the user.

These days the device probably needs to be a laptop. Tablets suffer the
same as a phone but not quite as badly for the larger (10") models. A
desktop system would probably need a webcam and microphone added, maybe
even WiFI to avoid having to run an ethernet cable.

There's two issues with laptops. One is trackpads - it needs people to
know that they move the pointer to screen by moving their fingers on the
trackpad. This might be an unfamiliar skill and tricky to grasp for
some, whereas touching things with your fingers is natural.

nothing to stop anyone adding a USB mouse/trackball.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 04:38:27 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip


The very people who might find a tablet the best approach.

Agreed. Mum (90) still mainly communicates with us both on her iPad
(Whatsapp) and her Portal.

But if you add "affordable" that usually means Android which seems to be more difficult to maintain and use than Apple IOS. Also, there can be severe annoyance when they find that updates and maintenance only apply for a couple of years.

Mum went though this fairly recently but was willing (and able) to buy
a new iPad.

I guess these (other) people don't have any friends or family willing
to help them? ;-(

My only reservation with any of the info given so far is that you may
need to ensure that there is some sort of a cap put on the data usage.
Many don't know what uses a lot or not and so can ramp up the costs
without realising it.

Cheers, T i m

There are, but sadly they do not offer the hand holding required. Before
Covid, many libraries ran silver surfers tutorials, but that has stopped,
and in any case its often the case that the old eyes are not good either,
and so one needs something almost tonka toy like to start with. These
devices do exist. Synapptics do one you connect to your telly, as do
Dolphin Computer Access with a limited number of functions you can often
command them by voice or if your sight is poor use their built in voices.
Cost you around 650 quid in the main, from what I can see. Cheaper than an
apple phone but more than many want to pay.

I guess a good introduction might well be the larger Amazon tablet. Many
have had good results with it, but you do need a bluetooth keyboard as no
matter what people say, typing on a virtual keyboard when you are older is
an exercise in frustration.

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book
events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them, I
think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the
emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing
contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to
suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us. Some
are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories of bank
scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls. But quite a
few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need
a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to the
router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are a lot
of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical
knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you
go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all
this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

--
Clive Page

On 10/08/2020 11:36, Clive Page wrote:
I help to run a club.Â* Over 90% of members now communicate by email,
book events online, etc.Â* But I'd like to help those who don't.Â* Most of
them, I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background.Â* Given

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here?Â* I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.


Some of these may help (but you may need to print them out in the first
instance for your intended audience

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information...etting-online/

https://www.forhousing.co.uk/getting-online

https://www.stroke.org.uk/what-is-ap...people-aphasia




--
Chris B (News)

I'd definitely go with an isp and wifi in the home. No data caps etc and
reliable as long as you are not stupid with placement. First get them onto
an isp say with an amazon Echo dot. Show them all the great stuff it can do,
then is the time to introduce the computer.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:00:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help
here?Â
I've trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that
is
useful, impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

The biggest problem is that there are just too many variables to
handle in a simple, easy to understand, guide.

To start with what methods of 'net access is available at the
location where service is required? I varies over very short
distances, We have 5-6 Mbps ADSL2+ and 4G (but only from one of the
four networks). Next property down the hill no 4G and worse ADSL,
next one still no 4G but does have FTCC...

None of this might apply in a town, with blanket 4G from all four
mobile networks, FTTC from a cabinet almost on every street corner
(or even FTTP), cable TV provider?

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Then need to find an mobile operator that uses a network that offers
at least 3G at the location required on a tarrif that doesn't cost an
arm and a leg.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.

I don't rate the experience of using as smartphone for your only net
access very highly. It works and is just about useable but it's not a
pleasant experience. Small screen, tiny touch keyboard, not exactly
"elderly friendly". Failing eyesight, arthritus giving poor fine
motor control, tremor and touch screens don't mix well or trying to
hold something close enough to read.

These days the device probably needs to be a laptop. Tablets suffer
the same as a phone but not quite as badly for the larger (10")
models. A desktop system would probably need a webcam and microphone
added, maybe even WiFI to avoid having to run an ethernet cable.

--
Cheers
Dave.

charles wrote:
nothing to stop anyone adding a USB mouse/trackball.

Again that needs hand/eye coordination - may be an unfamiliar skill to
someone who has never used a mouse before.

Theo

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book
events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them,
I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the
emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing
contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to
suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us.
Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories
of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls. But
quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need
a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to the
router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are a lot
of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical
knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort

Do these septuagenarians have poor eyesight and arthritic fingers?

if they do, whilst superficially the tablet solution looks good, it is a
long term recipe for even more problems

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:00:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help
here?Â
I've trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that
is
useful, impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

The biggest problem is that there are just too many variables to
handle in a simple, easy to understand, guide.

To start with what methods of 'net access is available at the
location where service is required? I varies over very short
distances, We have 5-6 Mbps ADSL2+ and 4G (but only from one of the
four networks). Next property down the hill no 4G and worse ADSL,
next one still no 4G but does have FTCC...

None of this might apply in a town, with blanket 4G from all four
mobile networks, FTTC from a cabinet almost on every street corner
(or even FTTP), cable TV provider?

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Then need to find an mobile operator that uses a network that offers
at least 3G at the location required on a tarrif that doesn't cost an
arm and a leg.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.

I don't rate the experience of using as smartphone for your only net
access very highly. It works and is just about useable but it's not a
pleasant experience. Small screen, tiny touch keyboard, not exactly
"elderly friendly". Failing eyesight, arthritus giving poor fine
motor control, tremor and touch screens don't mix well or trying to
hold something close enough to read.

These days the device probably needs to be a laptop. Tablets suffer
the same as a phone but not quite as badly for the larger (10")
models. A desktop system would probably need a webcam and microphone
added, maybe even WiFI to avoid having to run an ethernet cable.

I personally don't think that somebody who has never used a computer before,
is going to upgrade to using it for video communication any time soon

All computers come with wiffy connections nowadays

charles wrote:
Not everyone gets a decent mobile phone signal indoors. I don't, but a foot
outside the front door, I can just get a signal of a sort. I can alos get
one by leaning out of an upstaires window. Neither would be a good way of
convincing someone to "use the internet".

That's why I suggested a 'survey' box, if there was someone to process the
results. That would work better than buying a random SIM and hoping it
works. (Maybe the box would have a light or something to say 'try somewhere
else')

A Mi-Fi box placed on top of the wardrobe (or whereever) would be another way
to deal with awkward signal, although it would need pairing with the tablet.

Theo

"Brian Gaff (Sofa)" wrote in message
...
I'd definitely go with an isp and wifi in the home. No data caps etc and
reliable as long as you are not stupid with placement. First get them onto
an isp say with an amazon Echo dot. Show them all the great stuff it can
do,

what great stuff would that be? Playing radio programs?

(My friend's turns his light on and off for him. But I bet that doesn't
come "out of the box")

On 10/08/2020 14:19, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:44:56 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

On 10/08/2020 11:36, Clive Page wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Maybe they could be encouraged to learn to use the computers at a public
library.

We live in a city, and pre Covid ours was only open 1 hour a week.


Maybe in a city you have public internet classes. There were shops that
had rows of terminals that you could use for Internet access. I did
visit one once.


--
Michael Chare

On Monday, 10 August 2020 13:55:44 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 04:38:27 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip


The very people who might find a tablet the best approach.

Agreed. Mum (90) still mainly communicates with us both on her iPad
(Whatsapp) and her Portal.

But if you add "affordable" that usually means Android which seems to be more difficult to maintain and use than Apple IOS. Also, there can be severe annoyance when they find that updates and maintenance only apply for a couple of years.

Mum went though this fairly recently but was willing (and able) to buy
a new iPad.

I guess these (other) people don't have any friends or family willing
to help them? ;-(

My only reservation with any of the info given so far is that you may
need to ensure that there is some sort of a cap put on the data usage.
Many don't know what uses a lot or not and so can ramp up the costs
without realising it.

Cheers, T i m

I think my biggest reservation is that you cannot (or could not?) simple remote desktop to an iPad (or whatever you want to call it).

When I was faced with this, I ended up getting an ordinary PC. If she could switch it on, I could manage it. But a tablet would likely have been better in several ways.

On 10/08/2020 12:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.



they're *over* 70 !!!

On 10/08/2020 13:44, Michael Chare wrote:
Maybe they could be encouraged to learn to use the computers at a public
library.

Have fun finding one that is open.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:17:17 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

snip

My only reservation with any of the info given so far is that you may
need to ensure that there is some sort of a cap put on the data usage.
Many don't know what uses a lot or not and so can ramp up the costs
without realising it.


I think my biggest reservation is that you cannot (or could not?) simple remote desktop to an iPad (or whatever you want to call it).

Agreed. Protected workspaces or something?

When I was faced with this, I ended up getting an ordinary PC. If she could switch it on, I could manage it.

That's how we started with Mum but luckily she took to the tablet
(iPad) quickly enough and we are only a walk away if she needs help.

But a tablet would likely have been better in several ways.

For my Mum they are a lot more manageable than a laptop (physically)
and a lot more versatile than a PC for her usage.

I'd say her key uses are (in no specific order):

Playing Rumykub, IM with family (currently using Whatsapp (she also
has an iPhone)), getting emails (not sure she's ever sent one) and one
of her biggest uses, as a camera.

We set her up with an iCloud account (79p/m for 25GB or summat) so all
her stuff is backed up and auto shared across the iPads(old, new) and
iPhone.

If going anywhere she packs her iPad along with her meds *first*. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:27:36 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 10/08/2020 12:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.



they're *over* 70 !!!

My Mum is 90 and has an iPhone 6 and an iPad?

She's never worked in an office or really used a qwerty kbd dill Dad
died a few years ago.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 10/08/2020 12:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

you can get a usb dongle that contains a cellphone dedicated to data
only which takes a SIM

Or a wifi enabled router that takes a SIM as well.

Or you can use a really cheap smart phone to do the same.



they're *over* 70 !!!

When SWMBO (then 71) asked our 8 yo granddaughter what she was doing. she
got the reply "Using an iPad, Grannie, you wouldn't understand"

"Grannie" got an iPad for Chrismas and has never looked back.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article , Andrew
wrote:
On 10/08/2020 13:44, Michael Chare wrote:
Maybe they could be encouraged to learn to use the computers at a
public library.

Have fun finding one that is open.

Ours are open, but the computera are not available.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 10 Aug 2020 13:48:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

snip

The other is Windows, which is not beginner friendly. Possibly ChromeOS
might fix that one, and there are Chromebooks with LTE. Some have touch
screens which avoids the trackpad issue. I don't know how ChromeOS is for
beginners, I haven't used it.

I have, on a pen stick on a quad core Atom and whilst it's OK
performance wise, it's weird (for someone familiar with most the
current Desktop OS's anyway).

Not to say if setup specifically for someone (browser tabs to their
key places) that it couldn't be a workable solution.

The other issue though is how easy would it be for them to get help
from others (which is where Windows generally works out).

Watching my Mum (90) using her iPad the most common issues seem to be
a function of speed, or lack of when switching between things and her
dabbing and tapping multiple times because things haven't happened.

I really think these things should have a 'Wait' light on them that
flashes up when the system is more than 25% loaded. ;-)

Like the HDD LED that I miss so much on this Mac Mini ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 10/08/2020 14:19, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:44:56 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

On 10/08/2020 11:36, Clive Page wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Maybe they could be encouraged to learn to use the computers at a public
library.

We live in a city, and pre Covid ours was only open 1 hour a week.

Don't believe that. Even the tier-3 libraries in West Sussex
in places like Petworth are open 6 days a week for about 4
hours a day.

polygonum_on_google wrote:
I think my biggest reservation is that you cannot (or could not?) simple
remote desktop to an iPad (or whatever you want to call it).

Apparently you can screen share on iOS 11. Although I don't know if you can
also control it, or have to tell the person what to press.

When I was faced with this, I ended up getting an ordinary PC. If she
could switch it on, I could manage it. But a tablet would likely have
been better in several ways.

I'm not sure there is much 'management' needed on iOS, although the ability
to help with 'how do I...' questions is very handy.

Theo

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Clive Page

wrote:
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book
events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them,
I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the
emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing
contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to
suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us.
Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories
of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls.
But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need
a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to
the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are
a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical
knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you
go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all
this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

we had a Parish Councillor, younger than me, who could only access the
internet via her phone. Totally useless, she couldn't read any
attachments,
let alone 3 or 3 page documents.

You can with any decent smartphone.

I do it all the time with the internet and electricity bills.

All documents had to be printed out for her.

A couple of years ago, I raised the subject at the AGM
of a large national charity saying they were disenfranchising
a significant portion of their membership by putting so much
on the internet and cutting down on the paper magazine.,
"We're a conservation charity - we must save paper" was the
reply.

Possibly a charity like 'Age UK' might be able to help.

"Theo" wrote in message
...
Clive Page wrote:
It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you
go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all
this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

I'd suggest slimming the tablet choice down to 'buy an iPad'. It'll be
less
complicated than an Android or Windows device. Not so cheap, although
refurb options are cheaper.

If you have a modern iPad many have eSIMs that mean you don't need the
physical SIM card, you just pick a network from the screen:
https://www.truphone.com/apple-sim/
Apple Stores also provide physical SIMs that work on the same basis.

As well as Truphone, EE and O2 have eSIM tariffs although they need
physical
packs with QR codes and stuff.

In traditional-SIM land, Three Data Reward gives free 200MB per month:
https://www.three.co.uk/Free_SIM_MBB/Order
which might be enough for some users. After that data is 1p/MB.
That might be enough of a starting point to then discover they use lots of
data and need to upgrade to a monthly plan.

Email provider - I think you get offered an iCloud
email address as part of the iOS signup process.

Yes you do.

I don't know anything about it, but it's probably
good enough for someone without specific needs,

Yep, works well.

and presumably the mail client gets preconfigured.

Yep.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 06:57:05 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:00:37 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 10/08/2020 11:36, Clive Page wrote:

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort

Start them with a cheap PAYG smartphone first. It might be all they
need, or want to be involved with.

I've given up volunteering assistance in this vein. It's really not the
end user that is the issue. It's the failure of technology. Not everyone
is impressed by video games and playing 'spot the hotspot'.

We need to go back to black and white terminals, command line interfaces
and get rid of the mouse.

or jump forward to voice controlled everything...

--
Adrian C

On 10/08/2020 15:34, Theo wrote:
charles wrote:
nothing to stop anyone adding a USB mouse/trackball.

Again that needs hand/eye coordination - may be an unfamiliar skill to
someone who has never used a mouse before.


I had a game to explain what 'up, down, left, right' was in the context
of using buttons on a remote control matching that to the highlight of a
selected item on a smart television menu.

Of course the highlight moving has subtly changed the picture, but the
user is thinking it's a whole new screen displayed and now ye need to
press another button on this here remote. It's half a inch to the left
and next to that one I last pressed. Lets remember that to this scrap of
paper, because that is how it is.

Imagine driving a car like that. Absolutely no exception handling
ability at all!

-&-

On a more serious note, the above was an explanation attempt to a recent
Widow, whose husband was the sole presser of all buttons complicated.
During the lockdown, she couldn't do a lot with some really basic tech.
Major stumbling block was moving from HDMI2 to Digital TV, and back.

Share your talents folks!

--
Adrian C

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:50:31 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:

snip

I had a game to explain what 'up, down, left, right' was in the context
of using buttons on a remote control matching that to the highlight of a
selected item on a smart television menu.

That's stage one ... now they have the required selection highlighted
.... but they just sit there looking at it, not 'activating' that
'selection' with Ok / Enter.

I sometimes find it very difficult with the what seems like never
ending repetition of the exact same information / instruction. I was
an IT instructor for 8 years and have been helping people for much
longer (IT Support / Telephone Helpdesk etc) but most of those people
just needed to be given the information, they would then run with it /
repeat it tomorrow etc.

Maybe *because* I have been doing that most my life I find it
particularly difficult, how much and how quickly it stretches my
(normally 'patience of a saint', when it comes to 'things') as it
does.

I don't think I would make a good carer as I know what I should do but
not if I could do it. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

In article , Clive Page
writes
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email,
book events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most
of them, I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background.
Given the emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they
are losing contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to
be able to suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the
rest of us. Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see
too many stories of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out
via phone calls. But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only
they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may
need a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect
it to the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But
there are a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little
technical knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect
up via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which
tablet, and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or
pay-as-you go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I
can see all this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

Local libraries and other local groups tend to run computer/tablet
courses. It took me a while to persuade them that a tablet was a
better/easier way to go for older people as the technology is less
visible. But there is a hard core who just will not contemplate the idea
of even looking at a computer
--
bert

In article , charles
writes
In article , Clive Page
wrote:
I help to run a club. Over 90% of members now communicate by email, book
events online, etc. But I'd like to help those who don't. Most of them,
I think, are well over 70 and have no computer background. Given the
emphasis on online communications during this pandemic they are losing
contact with the world more and more, so it would be nice to be able to
suggest an easy way for them to get connected up like the rest of us.
Some are actually frightened of the Internet - they see too many stories
of bank scams etc. not realising that most start out via phone calls.
But quite a few, I think, would get connected if only they knew how.

The traditional route is to ask your phone company to add broadband of
some sort (ADSL or FTTC), install the router they send you which may need
a new wall-plate or phone filters, then buy a laptop and connect it to
the router by wifi, and then sign up to an email service. But there are
a lot of choices in doing that, and needs more than a little technical
knowledge.

It occurs to me that maybe the better and simpler route would be to
suggest that they buy a tablet computer of some sort and then connect up
via the cellphone network. But they still have to decide which tablet,
and then choose a SIM company and whether to use a contract or pay-as-you
go, and set it all up, plus choosing an email provider. I can see all
this is fairly daunting to anyone who has not done it before.

Does anyone know of any guides or tutorials that would help here? I've
trawled through a few web pages but can't find anything that is useful,
impartial, and appropriate for the UK.

we had a Parish Councillor, younger than me, who could only access the
internet via her phone. Totally useless, she couldn't read any attachments,
let alone 3 or 3 page documents. All documents had to be printed out for
her.

A couple of years ago, I raised the subject at the AGM of a large national
charity saying they were disenfranchising a significant portion of their
membership by putting so much on the internet and cutting down on the paper
magazine., "We're a conservation charity - we must save paper" was the
reply.

Possibly a charity like 'Age UK' might be able to help.

They will if there's money in it for them. Age Concern used to run
courses locally - I was a volunteer tutor for a while, until they merged
with Help the Aged to form Age UK then the courses stopped.
--
bert