In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:30:27 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

I personally don't think that somebody who has never used a
computer
before, is going to upgrade to using it for video communication
any
time soon

You would be surprised how quickly granny can adapt to Skype or Zoom.

That is one of the core reasons why many silver surfers are on the net!
Video calls with their family - especially during the lockdown.

+1

Nothing like having an itch to drive people into doing what ever is
required to scratch it.
-1. I have been avoiding scratching despite having 3 grandchildren!
Partly because I prefer a desktop PC with no camera provision. Partly
bandwidth limitation despite being on an unlimited service. Mainly
because I think communication is an exchange of information and not a
social event. Just naturally grumpy!


--
Tim Lamb

On 13/08/2020 11:28, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:30:27 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

I personally don't think that somebody who has never used a
computer
before, is going to upgrade to using it for video communication
any
time soon

You would be surprised how quickly granny can adapt to Skype or Zoom.

That is one of the core reasons why many silver surfers are on the net!
Video calls with their family - especially during the lockdown.

+1

Nothing like having an itch to drive people into doing what ever is
required to scratch it.

-1. I have been avoiding scratching despite having 3 grandchildren!
Partly because I prefer a desktop PC with no camera provision. Partly
bandwidth limitation despite being on an unlimited service. Mainly
because I think communication is an exchange of information and not a
social event. Just naturally grumpy!

You can buy USB webcams you know (although possibly not at the moment -
last time I looked none of my usual haunts had *any* in stock).

It works fine on my wet string 5Mbps (presently 4Mbps) wet string ADSL.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 11:28:17 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

-1. I have been avoiding scratching despite having 3 grandchildren!
Partly because I prefer a desktop PC with no camera provision. Partly
bandwidth limitation despite being on an unlimited service. Mainly
because I think communication is an exchange of information and not a
social event.

Agreed (personally).

Just naturally grumpy!

I wouldn't say so, just that you have your own things and prefer to do
that than the trivia. ;-)

But even a Portal can be used as a service aid. The other week
daughter was having issues with her Brother Colour Laser and it, the
Portal and her head were under the desk so that I could see the menus
and help her through it. ;-)

In fact, many a time we use the Portals as a good way of me observing
/ advising remotely, specifically because of the clever tracking
camera.

For Mum that means that as long as she's roughly in front of the thing
it will get her in frame. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
I personally don't think that somebody who has never used a computer
before, is going to upgrade to using it for video communication any time
soon

You would be surprised how quickly granny can adapt to Skype or Zoom.

That is one of the core reasons why many silver surfers are on the net!
Video calls with their family - especially during the lockdown.

Quite. Where there's a will there's a way.

--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 03:11:28 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Wednesday, 12 August 2020 10:56:24 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

Given that many older folk go though the entire list of the family /
pet dog names before they get to yours, how likely is it that they
will remember 'Alexa' or 'Hey Google'?

Change the wake word/phrase to be a pet dog's name?

It bad enough (for the dog) with all the TV adverts that have
doorbells in them, let alone having their name shouted several times
an hour! And if the elder can't get the name of a child they have had
for 63 years right, what chance of the name of a newly made up pet!
;-)

If I were ever to consider one of these devices, and I can't see that
happening other than for disability reasons, I'd want to change that.

I'm not sure you can (or can 'easily' but we have Google home devices
here and haven't tried and we have Alexa in the Portal and haven't
tried with that either). I mostly use the Google Home devices as
streaming radios.

Oh look

I did predict that's all they were "useful" for, in the hands of actual
users

"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 12 August 2020 17:43:59 UTC+1, T i m wrote:


My brain struggles to speak to devices.

I'm not bad with it now because I have spent many hours in the early
days helping people setup the likes of Dragon Dictate.

I used to regularly use one particular automated support line - and hated
it. (Thank you, HP.) I'd have to prepare what I need to say, and breathe
deeply, before even dialling the number.

If it failed to understand at any point, I'd usually hang up and try
again. Rather than going through previously unexplored pathways.

I had to use the hospital's automated booking service

It failed to understand "orthopaedics"

repeatedly asking me "was that ortho-optics" (whatever the hell that is)

No it bloody wasn't, it was "Orth-O-Pae-Dics"

rinse and repeat until I got fed up

On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 19:37:55 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

If I were ever to consider one of these devices, and I can't see that
happening other than for disability reasons, I'd want to change that.

I'm not sure you can (or can 'easily' but we have Google home devices
here and haven't tried and we have Alexa in the Portal and haven't
tried with that either). I mostly use the Google Home devices as
streaming radios.

Oh look

I did predict that's all they were "useful" for, in the hands of actual
users

No, all you have seen is reference to what *we* use them for. My mates
Alexa manages his lights, shopping list and some other stuff (to do
with his fish tanks).

Daughter and step-grand daughter use their for reminders and checking
out stuff online (train times, facts etc).

Cheers, T i m

On 13/08/2020 10:52, T i m wrote:

For Mum it was trying to talk her though doing something technical on
the phone and her not sounding like she was not bothered (she rang me
with the problem) and, out of frustration she said, "I'm old, tired
and lonely". Now she's always been a tough old bird (still looking
after Dad when he was fit and she's got a broken arm) and so that got
to me and I arranged 4 Portal Minis (her, her daughter, her 2
granddaughters) and I think they really helped.

Easy to use (not 'a computer', more an appliance), loud, clear, simple
(once set up etc).

I hadn't heard of a Portal device, so looked it up. Do you have any
privacy concerns that Facebook is behind it? There seem to be quite a
few criticisms that it is "on" all the time (though I note that you
mention below you unplug yours!) and can follow you around with its
smart camera. I assume it automatically connects to a Facebook hub as
soon as it is powered up, and your mum can then ask Alexa to contact you
if she wants to speak to you. Well, something like that anyway - or have
I got that completely wrong?

Now, nothing you couldn't do with many other solutions on many other
platforms but being dedicated mean they would stay working and
available when your tablet was flat or being used elsewhere and
quicker to power up and have running than most PC's and laptops.

We since got one as well (partly to offer support to the others but
outside of some basic install funnies, haven't had to) and we don't
even have ours plugged in, powering it up when we get an incoming call
(comes up on my Phone) or a 'Portal?' request from daughter / Mum /
family on IM.

Given (as mentioned) one of the first things that many elderly parents
miss is the personal contact with their Covid estranged family,
something that provides a video-chat link in the easiest form might be
the most used / appreciated?

Can you use it to connect to non-Portal devices? If someone has Facebook
or WhatsApp on a smartphone, etc, can it connect to that?

--

Jeff

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 08:33:08 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 13/08/2020 10:52, T i m wrote:

For Mum it was trying to talk her though doing something technical on
the phone and her not sounding like she was not bothered (she rang me
with the problem) and, out of frustration she said, "I'm old, tired
and lonely". Now she's always been a tough old bird (still looking
after Dad when he was fit and she's got a broken arm) and so that got
to me and I arranged 4 Portal Minis (her, her daughter, her 2
granddaughters) and I think they really helped.

Easy to use (not 'a computer', more an appliance), loud, clear, simple
(once set up etc).

I hadn't heard of a Portal device, so looked it up. Do you have any
privacy concerns that Facebook is behind it?

Over and above all the other social stuff? No.

There seem to be quite a
few criticisms that it is "on" all the time (though I note that you
mention below you unplug yours!)

Not for any security reasons, just because it's quick to start, draws
some energy and so give off some heat. ;-)

and can follow you around with its
smart camera.

Only within reason. I believe it's just a very wide angle lens and it
can frame the 'view' within that range. So if you are sat right in
front of it it will frame that view but if you move to the far corner
of it's range, it 'appears' to (smoothly) pan and zoom to pick you up
again. You can lock that off (with a screen touch), if you want it to
focus on something that doesn't appear to find a face. ;-)

I assume it automatically connects to a Facebook hub as
soon as it is powered up, and your mum can then ask Alexa to contact you
if she wants to speak to you.

Yup, although I think at that point it's the voice recognition of the
Portal itself, rather than Alexa that would do that. (Not used it for
a while but probably 'Hey Portal' (visual and audio acknowledgement
from Portal) , call Mum (and if there are more than one it confirms
the first it's found), then 'Yes / no' etc.

Well, something like that anyway - or have
I got that completely wrong?

Nope, pretty close. When you aren't dealing with video chat stuff it's
just a std Alexa interface.

From a personal privacy POV, on the Portal Minis we have you have a
slider that kills the microphone and puts a cover over the camera (one
or both).

snip

Given (as mentioned) one of the first things that many elderly parents
miss is the personal contact with their Covid estranged family,
something that provides a video-chat link in the easiest form might be
the most used / appreciated?

Can you use it to connect to non-Portal devices? If someone has Facebook
or WhatsApp on a smartphone, etc, can it connect to that?

Yes, given Facebook own Whatsapp, both are supported directly (the
setup prompts you to enter the details for both / either) and I think
Spotify to access your music. You can use existing but I think you
could set it all up from scratch on the Portal itself (as you can
access the Internet / eMails etc).

You also have a reasonable browser, FB Live and a few other apps you
can 'install' if you want. I have also had it running as a client to a
network TV tuner but they are fairly locked down.

The Mini also has the 10W sound system of the std model so my Mum who
is pretty hard of hearing (even with hearing aids in) doesn't have it
at full volume. The sound is very good meaning you get the full tonal
range of whoever you are talking to.

You can have multiple people connected up (inc non Portals etc) and
have on-screen effects to entertain the kids (and adults who haven't
grown up).

We treat it as a video intercom, simply because it's easy, hands free
(you can have it portrait or landscape) and leaves your phone / tablet
free at the same time. If the link poor it downgrades the quality of
the video to maintain fluidity.

What I thought was a neat touch as if you order more than one (we got
4 (max / customer) then another 2) they send them to the different
locations FOC (which makes sense). ;-)

We created 'bogus' FB accounts that were dedicated to a few of the
Portals but FB squashed a couple of them and others are still going.
;-)

If you get in a mess, there is a 'Hold these buttons' cold start that
then prompts you to do a factory reset. If you can get into it you can
do a factory restart from the Settings screen (and much of it is
configurable).

I think if any of us lost ours, we would replace them with the same
straight away.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 19:37:55 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

If I were ever to consider one of these devices, and I can't see that
happening other than for disability reasons, I'd want to change that.

I'm not sure you can (or can 'easily' but we have Google home devices
here and haven't tried and we have Alexa in the Portal and haven't
tried with that either). I mostly use the Google Home devices as
streaming radios.

Oh look

I did predict that's all they were "useful" for, in the hands of actual
users

No, all you have seen is reference to what *we* use them for. My mates
Alexa manages his lights,

which requires that you re-wire your house.

Not exactly the sort of thing an entry level OAP user is going to be doing

shopping list

Or really exciting. Where do I buy this useful device. Oh wait a minute,
I've got pencil and paper here, will that do the job?

and some other stuff (to do
with his fish tanks).

which presumably requires special wiring - see point 1


Daughter and step-grand daughter use their for reminders and checking
out stuff online (train times, facts etc).

well whoopee do!