I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:
I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

No sign of that when some of mine had to come out.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:52:08 +0100, wrote:

When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

Thermal break? Airflow restriction?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 23/07/2020 22:32, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:52:08 +0100, wrote:

When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

Thermal break? Airflow restriction?
The channel will be sealed to the wooden frame on both sides so I guess
the wood might stop some internal air circulation - a bit doubtful.
The only thing I can think of is that sealants weren't so good in the
30s so it's to take-up the slight gap between steel and frames to give
something for the sealant to bare against.

On 23/07/2020 22:21, newshound wrote:
On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:
I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am
ready to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one
aspect. When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were
filled with wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the
in-fill wood when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in
case anyone can come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept
... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges
and catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow
for the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

No sign of that when some of mine had to come out.
Thanks, that's interesting to know

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:52:08 +0100, wrote:

I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

IIRC Crittall windows were prone to crack the glass though
flexion/expansion/contraction: could the wood have been there as a
buffer?

(I lived in Crittalltown (Braintree, Essex) for a while and my
landlord worked for the firm. If you had only asked me that question
forty-eight years ago I could have asked him for you.)

Nick

On Friday, 24 July 2020 03:02:35 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
(I lived in Crittalltown (Braintree, Essex) for a while and my
landlord worked for the firm. If you had only asked me that question
forty-eight years ago I could have asked him for you.)


Even Homeowners Hub doesn't usually necropost that far back

Owain

On 24/07/2020 06:02, Nick Odell wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 21:52:08 +0100, wrote:

I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

IIRC Crittall windows were prone to crack the glass though
flexion/expansion/contraction: could the wood have been there as a
buffer?

(I lived in Crittalltown (Braintree, Essex) for a while and my
landlord worked for the firm. If you had only asked me that question
forty-eight years ago I could have asked him for you.)

Nick

Most of the windows open, and the wood fits into the outer channel of
the fixed frame, so not a buffer.
Ah, if only we have a time machine. Apart from getting an answer to this
question I could go back to the (failed) attempts to chat-up gorgeous
women and use the approach I thought of shortly after the first one had
failed ;-)

On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:
I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

What about the glass? Will you be able to reduce heat loss by using a
type of double glazing?


--
Michael Chare

On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:
I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

Having refitted the first one today the answer became obvious. The
wooden frame rebate is 3-4mm wider than the Crittall window so without
the wooden in-fill it would be harder to get the sealant to, err, seal.

On Friday, 24 July 2020 19:52:22 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:

I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

What about the glass? Will you be able to reduce heat loss by using a
type of double glazing?

Even if you could, heat loss through the steel frame is substantial. Secondary glazing solves this. Crittalls really are dire for heat loss.


NT

On 24/07/2020 22:16, wrote:
On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:
I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am
ready to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one
aspect. When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were
filled with wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the
in-fill wood when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in
case anyone can come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept
... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges
and catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow
for the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

Having refitted the first one today the answer became obvious. The
wooden frame rebate is 3-4mm wider than the Crittall window so without
the wooden in-fill it would be harder to get the sealant to, err, seal.

IIRC industrial, school, and hospital units were sometimes fitted
straight to the brickwork. That being the case, an easily "adjustable"
bit for manufacturing and/or builders tolerances would seem to make sense.

In article ,
wrote:
I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

Wonder if an attempt to help prevent the glass cracking in hot weather?

Modern flexible putty likely does the same thing.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/07/2020 00:51, wrote:
On Friday, 24 July 2020 19:52:22 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:

I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

What about the glass? Will you be able to reduce heat loss by using a
type of double glazing?

Even if you could, heat loss through the steel frame is substantial. Secondary glazing solves this. Crittalls really are dire for heat loss.


NT


So are the aluminium patio doors that I have. In winter
condensation pours down the inside of the metal, and in summer
(south facing) I have to keep the curtains shut because of the
heat coming through frame and glass.

Burglars don't like crittall windows though :-)

There was a Grand Design program filming an old industrial
building being renovated near Bath somewhere. Planners said
'Crittall' windows had to stay but they got some double
glazing units with a vacuum between the panes and only a
very small gap so they fitted the reveal intended for single
glazing. Not cheap.

On Saturday, 25 July 2020 12:12:37 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2020 00:51, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 24 July 2020 19:52:22 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:

I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

What about the glass? Will you be able to reduce heat loss by using a
type of double glazing?

Even if you could, heat loss through the steel frame is substantial. Secondary glazing solves this. Crittalls really are dire for heat loss.


NT


So are the aluminium patio doors that I have. In winter
condensation pours down the inside of the metal, and in summer
(south facing) I have to keep the curtains shut because of the
heat coming through frame and glass.

Burglars don't like crittall windows though :-)

There was a Grand Design program filming an old industrial
building being renovated near Bath somewhere. Planners said
'Crittall' windows had to stay but they got some double
glazing units with a vacuum between the panes and only a
very small gap so they fitted the reveal intended for single
glazing. Not cheap.

I'm not familiar with that being done with Crittalls. But sealed dg units AIUI do need soft bedding of some sort, soft tape or PVC provide that, steel frames don't. So I'd expect increased failure rate.

How does vacuum dg work? A hard glass seal would break due to differential expansion between the panes, a softer seal would leak.


NT

I recall in the early days of double glazing long before UPVC that you could get DG units with a larger outer pane designed presumably to fit frames designed for single panes. I came across an example many years later in the back of a storeroom, I dont think they lasted long before frames were specifically made to take DG units.

Richard

On 25/07/2020 13:50, wrote:
On Saturday, 25 July 2020 12:12:37 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2020 00:51, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 24 July 2020 19:52:22 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/07/2020 21:52, wrote:

I've been re-furbishing* some of my 1930s Crittall windows and am ready
to refit them into the wooden frames, but I'm unsure about one aspect.
When I removed the windows the U-shaped outer channels were filled with
wooden battens, but why? I'm tempted not to replace the in-fill wood
when refitting the windows but thought I'd ask here in case anyone can
come-up with a good reason why the wood should be kept ... ?

*FYI the re-furb involved: de-glazing, sand blasting, welding-in a few
new sections, powder coating, stripping the paint off handles hinges and
catches, polishing the bronze bits, linishing the hinges to allow for
the powder coat thickness, refitting everything with new screws.

What about the glass? Will you be able to reduce heat loss by using a
type of double glazing?

Even if you could, heat loss through the steel frame is substantial. Secondary glazing solves this. Crittalls really are dire for heat loss.


NT


So are the aluminium patio doors that I have. In winter
condensation pours down the inside of the metal, and in summer
(south facing) I have to keep the curtains shut because of the
heat coming through frame and glass.

Burglars don't like crittall windows though :-)

There was a Grand Design program filming an old industrial
building being renovated near Bath somewhere. Planners said
'Crittall' windows had to stay but they got some double
glazing units with a vacuum between the panes and only a
very small gap so they fitted the reveal intended for single
glazing. Not cheap.

I'm not familiar with that being done with Crittalls. But sealed dg units AIUI do need soft bedding of some sort, soft tape or PVC provide that, steel frames don't. So I'd expect increased failure rate.

How does vacuum dg work? A hard glass seal would break due to differential expansion between the panes, a softer seal would leak.


NT


https://www.pilkington.com/en/us/pro...kington-spacia