"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:31:09 +0100, "David"
wrote:

Mike apologies for snipping all of the previous

but there is no point in taking the time to correct anything you said.This
is a lost cause,

There is no point is trying to explain something where the opinion is
already clearly set in stone. You choose to ignore the facts and opinions
of those who have actually experienced using this system in favour of your
vague idea of what would happen.

bye

David

Mike Mitchell wrote in message . ..

But inflated prices in an open bid process can only happen if the item
in question is rare. This is not the case for properties as it might
well be, say, for works of art. The fact that open bid auctions happen

Or where two or more people want the property and are prepared to bid
over the asking price. Why do you think people are less likely to take
the bidding over the asking price in the open auction system?

by the dozen or hundred every week points to the equity of this
system. Why would open bids for property (in Scotland or anywhere

I would say the number of successful closed bids in the Scottish
system point to the equity of that system.

else) not be just as beneficial to all parties, vendors and buyers?
Isn't a very low OO price just trickery? Why aren't new properties
sold like this?

But in a sealed bid system, buyers will offer well over the price

BUT PEOPLE DO NOT GENERALLY DO THIS (99% of the time). I do not know
who has told you this but no-one I know works this way

Then they don't get the property! One person is lucky enough to pip

**** happens, Learn to deal with it!

them to the post, possibly by a very small amount. However, because of
lack of information (since it's a closed bid system and thus based on
guesswork) the buyer who lost out could be kicking himself because he
failed by such a small margin. So what happens? Well, to make sure of
getting the property, an inflated bid is put in, if that is what one

If the property is rare then yes, put in an inflated bid, just as you
have said can happen in the open system. If properties are plentiful
then you know there's another one around the corner, up your bid by a
few hundred and eventually you will be successful. The net result is
the same in both systems. Where do you think these hordes of bidders
making vastly inflated bids are coming from? Nowhere, because they're
a figment of your imagination and some journalists spin. Supply and
demand will determine the selling price of property. Why can you not
see that?

If someone can afford to outbid you they will do so, regardless of the
systrem.

The only substantive financial difference I can see is that you end up
paying for more abortive surveys in the Scottish system. That's a
totally different issue from whether a closed or open auction is
fairer. But consider this: In an open system you're actually *more*
likely to end up paying more since you will always want to bid more
(up to a limit) than the other bidders to secure the property. That
little bit extra (usually at least 1K pounds, often more) would pay
for quite a few surveys on properties where everyone gets one chance
to make their best and final offer.

MBQ

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:09:54 +0100, "David"
wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:31:09 +0100, "David"
wrote:

Mike apologies for snipping all of the previous

but there is no point in taking the time to correct anything you said.This
is a lost cause,

There is no point is trying to explain something where the opinion is
already clearly set in stone. You choose to ignore the facts and opinions
of those who have actually experienced using this system in favour of your
vague idea of what would happen.

But you appear to believe that it's only me! That I somehow have this
idée fixe, which must therefore be perverse in some way. But The
Scotsman reported even earlier than that other report of theirs I
quoted from, as, on 12th August, it wrote, under the headline
"Scottish house-buyers' frustration with sale system":

quote
ONE in four Scots would prefer the English house-buying system to be
adopted north of the Border, according to a new report.

The uncertain "offers over" system, soaring prices and the cost of
multiple surveys have led to increasing criticism of the Scottish
process, once regarded as superior.

Buyer frustration has peaked in hotspots such as Edinburgh and Glasgow
where the offers-over price often bears little relation to the true
valuation of the property. The result is that buyers waste time and
money pursuing properties which they have little chance of securing.

The research, conducted by BMRB International for Clydesdale Bank,
reveals that 25 per cent of Scots support scrapping the current system
in favour of the English method - despite such a move possibly opening
up buyers to a host of problems from which they are currently
protected under the Scottish system.

Jamie Macnab, of the estate agents FPDSavills, said he was not
surprised by the findings.

"The [Scottish] system is a mess at the moment and I would
wholeheartedly support reform. I am not at all surprised that there is
this level of disenchantment," he said.

"For a buyer the asking price scenario is a nightmare. People set
their hearts on a home only to find that the seller is expecting a 40
per cent premium."
/quote

Now why is it that you ignore the one in four Scots who agree with my
view that the system is flawed?

MM

Mike Mitchell wrote:

Now why is it that you ignore the one in four Scots who agree with my
view that the system is flawed?

Here's a different interpretation of the same survey data:

Everybody recognises that both the Scottish and the English house-buying
systems are flawed, in their different ways, and both subject to abuse.
But a massive majority of Scottish housebuyers (3 out of 4) do *not*
want to change to the English system.


--
Ian White

"Ian White" wrote
| Mike Mitchell wrote:
| Now why is it that you ignore the one in four Scots who agree with my
| view that the system is flawed?
| Here's a different interpretation of the same survey data:
| Everybody recognises that both the Scottish and the English house-buying
| systems are flawed, in their different ways, and both subject to abuse.
| But a massive majority of Scottish housebuyers (3 out of 4) do *not*
| want to change to the English system.

And "in hotspots such as Edinburgh and Glasgow" why would the English
system, which gazumping, gazundering and chains, be any better?

The simple fact is that if there aren't enough houses to meet demand then
some people are going to end up disappointed.

Owain

In message , Owain
writes
"Ian White" wrote
| Mike Mitchell wrote:
| Now why is it that you ignore the one in four Scots who agree with my
| view that the system is flawed?
| Here's a different interpretation of the same survey data:
| Everybody recognises that both the Scottish and the English house-buying
| systems are flawed, in their different ways, and both subject to abuse.
| But a massive majority of Scottish housebuyers (3 out of 4) do *not*
| want to change to the English system.

And "in hotspots such as Edinburgh and Glasgow" why would the English
system, which gazumping, gazundering and chains, be any better?

The simple fact is that if there aren't enough houses to meet demand then
some people are going to end up disappointed.


And, invariably, when buyers feel hard done by, they tend to complain
with the support of the media.

In general, when sellers are hard done by, it is usually accepted as
"the norm", or market conditions.

I'm not sure how this element of our culture, in relation to property
transactions, has come about.

Owain



--
Richard Faulkner