I'm about to embark on an attempt to refit my bathroom. I'm happy
doing the plumbing myself, but I'd quite like a bit of reassurance
that my plan will work!

There is currently a bath, basin and toilet. I'm going to turn the
bath round, and possibly change the wall the basin backs on to
(although it will stay in the same corner, so this shouldn't be a
major job). The toilet isn't going to move. I'm also planning on
adding a power shower. I don't have to worry about replacing the
toilet, as I'm having my soil stack completely replaced and the guy
who's doing that is going to put the new loo in at the same time.

The basin and bath both have mixer taps (monobloc for the basin), and
all cold water is fed from the rising main. Apparently this is against
building regs or something similar, as there are no double check
valves or similar. Is this correct?

I've got a cold water cistern in the loft and a hot water tank in the
airing cupboard, next to the bathroom. Assuming the previous paragraph
is correct on the cold water front, I was planning on taking a branch
from the cold water feed to the hot water tank and using this to
supply cold water to the bath and basin taps, leaving the toilet on
the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

The exising wastes are metal and from measuring the diameter appear to
be 1.25" for the basin and 1.5" for the bath. I'm therefore assuming
that if I can cut them off square with a hacksaw (which could be
easier said than done, as they are right against the wall, I can use
standard 32mm and 40mm pushfit connectors to join them onto new
plastic pipes and then use solvent weld/more pushfit depending on how
confident I'm feeling. Does this sound ok? And if so, is it necessary
to strip the paint off the old wastes before I do it?

What's the best way to strip old paint off pipework, especially if
access is limited (why anyone would paint pipework that's right at the
back of the airing cupboard, I have no idea).

Hopefully that all makes sense. All help greatfully received!

Thanks,
Jon

In article ,
Jonathan George wrote:
I'm about to embark on an attempt to refit my bathroom. I'm happy
doing the plumbing myself, but I'd quite like a bit of reassurance
that my plan will work!

I'm about to do the same!

There is currently a bath, basin and toilet. I'm going to turn the
bath round, and possibly change the wall the basin backs on to
(although it will stay in the same corner, so this shouldn't be a
major job). The toilet isn't going to move. I'm also planning on
adding a power shower.

Hey - You are not secretly employed by my SWIMBO are you? Thats exactly
what I'm about to do!

I don't have to worry about replacing the
toilet, as I'm having my soil stack completely replaced and the guy
who's doing that is going to put the new loo in at the same time.

Not having a new soil stack, but installing a new crapper though.

The basin and bath both have mixer taps (monobloc for the basin), and
all cold water is fed from the rising main. Apparently this is against
building regs or something similar, as there are no double check
valves or similar. Is this correct?

My toilet cistern is fed from the mains and all else comes into the
bathroom on 22mm pipes (15mm Teed off to the sink) I have *no* check
valves anywhere in the house (apart from the kitchen which I replumbed
last year) So I'm going to have to drain the entire system at least once
in the process of re-doing it all )-: I've also got to turn a radiator
into a towel rail which will entail draning the CH system... Good job
we're having such a nice hot summer...

I've got a cold water cistern in the loft and a hot water tank in the
airing cupboard, next to the bathroom. Assuming the previous paragraph
is correct on the cold water front, I was planning on taking a branch
from the cold water feed to the hot water tank and using this to
supply cold water to the bath and basin taps, leaving the toilet on
the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

Everything I've read and been told suggests that taking a separate feed
off the cold water tank and a separate feed out of the hot water tank
(via Essex Flange) is the way to do it rather than T into the existing
pipes. This is what I'll be doing. The pump I've ordered has 15mm
connectors, but the run to the bathroom (2 rooms away from the tanks)
is 22m. I don't see this as being a real problem and theres no-way I'm
going to lift 2 rooms worth of pipes to change it...

The exising wastes are metal and from measuring the diameter appear to
be 1.25" for the basin and 1.5" for the bath. I'm therefore assuming
that if I can cut them off square with a hacksaw (which could be
easier said than done, as they are right against the wall, I can use
standard 32mm and 40mm pushfit connectors to join them onto new
plastic pipes and then use solvent weld/more pushfit depending on how
confident I'm feeling. Does this sound ok? And if so, is it necessary
to strip the paint off the old wastes before I do it?

I'm all plastic as far as waste is concerned... Angle grinder might be
eaier to cut the pipes with... I used pushfit in the kitchen stuff and
it's worked a charm.

What's the best way to strip old paint off pipework, especially if
access is limited (why anyone would paint pipework that's right at the
back of the airing cupboard, I have no idea).

Steel wool & elbow grease...

Hopefully that all makes sense. All help greatfully received!

Hope it all goes well for you!

We've already spent too much on bits & pieces, (and blew the budget
on a fizzy bubly bath thing), but what the heck, it'll last us many
years hopefully.

Gordon

Jonathan George wrote:

The basin and bath both have mixer taps (monobloc for the basin), and
all cold water is fed from the rising main. Apparently this is against
building regs or something similar, as there are no double check
valves or similar. Is this correct?

That depends. Many mixer taps do not actually "mix" as such - they
squirt the water from each supply out of different (often concentric)
spouts such that the mixing happens after the tap. If yours are like
this, there there is no problem.

I've got a cold water cistern in the loft and a hot water tank in the
airing cupboard, next to the bathroom. Assuming the previous paragraph
is correct on the cold water front, I was planning on taking a branch
from the cold water feed to the hot water tank and using this to
supply cold water to the bath and basin taps, leaving the toilet on

If you have taps that mix internally (as some of the older designed did)
then it is probably going to be much simpler to install a double check
valve on the cold pipe feeding each tap. These are not unlike a straight
compression fitting (bit longer) and are fitted in exactly the same way
- chop a bit out a pipe and stick it in. (Not sure why, but some folks
seem to think there is some big mystery to double check valves)

the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

Yup - you should install the dedicated cold feed for the shower so that
it is sighted a little lower in the cold cistern than the feed that goes
to the hot water cylinder. That way if the cistern gets drained it is
the hot water that stops flowing first!

easier said than done, as they are right against the wall, I can use
standard 32mm and 40mm pushfit connectors to join them onto new
plastic pipes and then use solvent weld/more pushfit depending on how
confident I'm feeling. Does this sound ok? And if so, is it necessary
to strip the paint off the old wastes before I do it?

You may find this joint is better made with a plastic waste compression
fitting rather than push fit, since the matching of the exact diameter
is slightly less critical.

What's the best way to strip old paint off pipework, especially if
access is limited (why anyone would paint pipework that's right at the
back of the airing cupboard, I have no idea).

Heat with a blow torch, then wire wool.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jonathan George wrote:

snip
the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

Yup - you should install the dedicated cold feed for the shower so that
it is sighted a little lower in the cold cistern than the feed that goes
to the hot water cylinder. That way if the cistern gets drained it is
the hot water that stops flowing first!
snip

Thanks for that. One more question. If my new cold feed for the shower has
to come off the cistern below the existing one to the hot tank, how do I
make a new hole in the tank without flooding my loft! Also, how important is
the thing about putting it lower down - the existing one is pretty low down
so there isn't that much more space.

Thanks again.
Jon

"Jonathan George" wrote in message
...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jonathan George wrote:

snip
the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

Yup - you should install the dedicated cold feed for the shower so that
it is sighted a little lower in the cold cistern than the feed that goes
to the hot water cylinder. That way if the cistern gets drained it is
the hot water that stops flowing first!
snip

Thanks for that. One more question. If my new cold feed for the shower has
to come off the cistern below the existing one to the hot tank, how do I
make a new hole in the tank without flooding my loft! Also, how important
is
the thing about putting it lower down - the existing one is pretty low
down
so there isn't that much more space.

You have to empty it with a jug and a bucket. It only needs to be just below
so that the top edge of the cold is level with the bottom edge of the hot
outlet. It depends not only on who is using the shower but on who might in
the future - a shower that goes scalding hot generally makes people panic
and ask for more cold, sometimes they don't think of just shutting it off
and they get scalded. A shower that goes freezing cold just makes them
cross! You have to cut a hole anyway, so best to try and get it in the right
place even if it does mean 10 minutes with a jug and bucket.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:35:14 +0100, "Bob Mannix"
wrote:


"Jonathan George" wrote in message
...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jonathan George wrote:

snip
the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

Yup - you should install the dedicated cold feed for the shower so that
it is sighted a little lower in the cold cistern than the feed that goes
to the hot water cylinder. That way if the cistern gets drained it is
the hot water that stops flowing first!
snip

Thanks for that. One more question. If my new cold feed for the shower has
to come off the cistern below the existing one to the hot tank, how do I
make a new hole in the tank without flooding my loft! Also, how important
is
the thing about putting it lower down - the existing one is pretty low
down
so there isn't that much more space.

You have to empty it with a jug and a bucket. It only needs to be just below
so that the top edge of the cold is level with the bottom edge of the hot
outlet. It depends not only on who is using the shower but on who might in
the future - a shower that goes scalding hot generally makes people panic
and ask for more cold, sometimes they don't think of just shutting it off
and they get scalded. A shower that goes freezing cold just makes them
cross! You have to cut a hole anyway, so best to try and get it in the right
place even if it does mean 10 minutes with a jug and bucket.

Another approach if the existing outlet is very low is to cut another
higher up and connect the existing pipe to it, then use the lower
existing one for the shower.

In terms of cutting the hole, a decent hole saw is important. The
type with several thin concentric blades where you select one to use
are fairly crappy. The type with a mandrel where you then buy a
cutter of the correct size are very much better. You can also get
electrician's and plumber's sets of these which are cheaper than
buying separately.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:35:14 +0100, "Bob Mannix"
wrote:


"Jonathan George" wrote in message
...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jonathan George wrote:

snip
the rising main. The shower installation instructions say that I
should have a separate 15mm feed from the cold water cistern to the
shower, and a 15mm feed from the hot water tank taken off below the
join to the vent pipe and before any other draws. All sound ok?

Yup - you should install the dedicated cold feed for the shower so
that
it is sighted a little lower in the cold cistern than the feed that
goes
to the hot water cylinder. That way if the cistern gets drained it is
the hot water that stops flowing first!
snip

Thanks for that. One more question. If my new cold feed for the shower
has
to come off the cistern below the existing one to the hot tank, how do
I
make a new hole in the tank without flooding my loft! Also, how
important
is
the thing about putting it lower down - the existing one is pretty low
down
so there isn't that much more space.

You have to empty it with a jug and a bucket. It only needs to be just
below
so that the top edge of the cold is level with the bottom edge of the hot
outlet. It depends not only on who is using the shower but on who might
in
the future - a shower that goes scalding hot generally makes people panic
and ask for more cold, sometimes they don't think of just shutting it off
and they get scalded. A shower that goes freezing cold just makes them
cross! You have to cut a hole anyway, so best to try and get it in the
right
place even if it does mean 10 minutes with a jug and bucket.

Another approach if the existing outlet is very low is to cut another
higher up and connect the existing pipe to it, then use the lower
existing one for the shower.

In terms of cutting the hole, a decent hole saw is important. The
type with several thin concentric blades where you select one to use
are fairly crappy. The type with a mandrel where you then buy a
cutter of the correct size are very much better. You can also get
electrician's and plumber's sets of these which are cheaper than
buying separately.


Yes, that did occur to me. However, the existing hole is on the same side as
the connection to the rising main, and the shower installation instructions
say (several times) that the shower feed should be connected on the opposite
side to reduce the chance of air being drawn in. Is this really a problem?

Thanks for the holesaw advice - the last thing I need is to be making an
arse of drilling into my water cistern. I'm kind of used to diy jobs taking
4 times as long as I originally intend (since most of the stuff I do is the
first time I've tried it) but having to spend hours in the loft trying to
repair a bodge would really mess my day up...

Jon

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:35:28 +0000 (UTC), "Jonathan George"
wrote:




Yes, that did occur to me. However, the existing hole is on the same side as
the connection to the rising main, and the shower installation instructions
say (several times) that the shower feed should be connected on the opposite
side to reduce the chance of air being drawn in. Is this really a problem?

I think that what they are saying here is that if there is a silencing
tube on the float valve it will have an air hole to prevent reverse
siphoning if the mains supply fails. If there is a fair flow of
water then you get air bubbles into the tank at the bottom of the
tube.

I would take a look with some taps running and see what it looks like.



Thanks for the holesaw advice - the last thing I need is to be making an
arse of drilling into my water cistern. I'm kind of used to diy jobs taking
4 times as long as I originally intend (since most of the stuff I do is the
first time I've tried it) but having to spend hours in the loft trying to
repair a bodge would really mess my day up...





Jon


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl