[whisky-dave[_2_]]

On Monday, 2 December 2019 16:43:09 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 30 November 2019 03:58:07 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 29 November 2019 15:23:00 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:00:06 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:24:25 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 09:13:02 UTC, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 November 2019 14:00:29 UTC, Tricky Dicky
wrote:
I am with you John, it is amazing how quick threads
degenerate
to
political mudslinging or just general slanging off. I think
the
record
is from a genuine DIY post to crap in about 5 posts. See if
the
trolls
can pick up on this thread and do their worst!

DIY is a disappearing skill these days.
The snowflake generation doesn't want to get it's hands
dirty.

I think you'll find the snowflake gen arenlt really allowed
to.

Thats bull****.

I was refering to the UK mostly London properties.

Still bull**** there on the mostly.

Then show me those that you claim are affordable

Didnt say anything about affordable.

well who's going to buy things that aren't affordable ?

Those who have enough of a clue to realise that it
makes no sense to be pumping rent into a landlord's
pocket if its possible to buy a place instead.

But it's not possible for the majority or they'd do it.

Sure but it doesnt have to be the majority
to still have plenty that can be DIYed.


Depending on what you mean by plenty.
What do you mean by plenty can you show at least 3 properties in London that
a typical graduate on their first job can afford to buy a do up as a DIY project while working full time.



The majority of school leavers or college grads
buying their first property don't have £50k plus
spare to put even a 10% depsoit down on a 1 bed flat.

See above.

yes see above.




Try finding a place in London then, go on prove it.

Not possible when you lot dont have lists of
what actually sold and how that was financed.

Why do you need a list use the estate agent sites.

And it has nothing to do with you how such things are financed.


Just because the for sale ad says that part
ownership is possible, doesnt mean that
it actually sold that way, particularly with
the ones that had help from their parents.

Yes it does the part ownership means the other part is owned by a company that charges you rent, even though you part own the property.

[Rod Speed]

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 2 December 2019 16:43:09 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 30 November 2019 03:58:07 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 29 November 2019 15:23:00 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:00:06 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:24:25 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 09:13:02 UTC, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 November 2019 14:00:29 UTC, Tricky Dicky
wrote:
I am with you John, it is amazing how quick threads
degenerate
to
political mudslinging or just general slanging off. I
think
the
record
is from a genuine DIY post to crap in about 5 posts. See
if
the
trolls
can pick up on this thread and do their worst!

DIY is a disappearing skill these days.
The snowflake generation doesn't want to get it's hands
dirty.

I think you'll find the snowflake gen arenlt really allowed
to.

Thats bull****.

I was refering to the UK mostly London properties.

Still bull**** there on the mostly.

Then show me those that you claim are affordable

Didnt say anything about affordable.

well who's going to buy things that aren't affordable ?

Those who have enough of a clue to realise that it
makes no sense to be pumping rent into a landlord's
pocket if its possible to buy a place instead.

But it's not possible for the majority or they'd do it.

Sure but it doesnt have to be the majority
to still have plenty that can be DIYed.

Depending on what you mean by plenty.
What do you mean by plenty

Those that are assisted by their parents to buy
the place, landlords who choose to diy instead
of paying someone to do the work etc etc etc.

can you show at least 3 properties in London that
a typical graduate on their first job can afford to buy
a do up as a DIY project while working full time.

Yep, those who are helped by their parents to buy the place.

The majority of school leavers or college grads
buying their first property don't have £50k plus
spare to put even a 10% depsoit down on a 1 bed flat.

See above.

Try finding a place in London then, go on prove it.

Not possible when you lot dont have lists of
what actually sold and how that was financed.

Why do you need a list use the estate agent sites.

Thats what they are offering, not what actually happens with the sale

And it has nothing to do with you how such things are financed.

It does determine whether it can be diyed when
it isnt financed by part ownership by the financier
unless that is by the parents or a relative.

Just because the for sale ad says that part
ownership is possible, doesnt mean that
it actually sold that way, particularly with
the ones that had help from their parents.

Yes it does the part ownership means the other
part is owned by a company that charges you
rent, even though you part own the property.

But they arent all sold like that, most obviously with
those who are helped by their parent or relative.

[Peeler[_4_]]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 02:16:35 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the senile asshole's latest troll****

02:16 in Australia? AGAIN??? Just what the **** is WRONG with you (apart
from your clinical insanity), you senile cretin?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

[whisky-dave[_2_]]

On Tuesday, 3 December 2019 15:16:45 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 2 December 2019 16:43:09 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 30 November 2019 03:58:07 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 29 November 2019 15:23:00 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:00:06 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:24:25 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 09:13:02 UTC, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 November 2019 14:00:29 UTC, Tricky Dicky
wrote:
I am with you John, it is amazing how quick threads
degenerate
to
political mudslinging or just general slanging off. I
think
the
record
is from a genuine DIY post to crap in about 5 posts. See
if
the
trolls
can pick up on this thread and do their worst!

DIY is a disappearing skill these days.
The snowflake generation doesn't want to get it's hands
dirty.

I think you'll find the snowflake gen arenlt really allowed
to.

Thats bull****.

I was refering to the UK mostly London properties.

Still bull**** there on the mostly.

Then show me those that you claim are affordable

Didnt say anything about affordable.

well who's going to buy things that aren't affordable ?

Those who have enough of a clue to realise that it
makes no sense to be pumping rent into a landlord's
pocket if its possible to buy a place instead.

But it's not possible for the majority or they'd do it.

Sure but it doesnt have to be the majority
to still have plenty that can be DIYed.

Depending on what you mean by plenty.
What do you mean by plenty

Those that are assisted by their parents to buy
the place,

So they aren;t doing it themselves are they.

landlords who choose to diy instead
of paying someone to do the work etc etc etc.

Most landlords don;t do that either, they donlt have the time as they have properties to loko after or the get an estate agent to manage the property for them.


can you show at least 3 properties in London that
a typical graduate on their first job can afford to buy
a do up as a DIY project while working full time.

Yep, those who are helped by their parents to buy the place.

Then it;s not DIY, still no link shown to such properties though why is that ?


The majority of school leavers or college grads
buying their first property don't have £50k plus
spare to put even a 10% depsoit down on a 1 bed flat.

See above.

Try finding a place in London then, go on prove it.

Not possible when you lot dont have lists of
what actually sold and how that was financed.

Why do you need a list use the estate agent sites.

Thats what they are offering, not what actually happens with the sale

The sales usually go for more as the listing as just a starting price.



And it has nothing to do with you how such things are financed.

It does determine whether it can be diyed when
it isnt financed by part ownership by the financier
unless that is by the parents or a relative.

which it isn't it's a company that owns the other half or 2/3 of the property.


Just because the for sale ad says that part
ownership is possible, doesnt mean that
it actually sold that way, particularly with
the ones that had help from their parents.

Yes it does the part ownership means the other
part is owned by a company that charges you
rent, even though you part own the property.

But they arent all sold like that, most obviously with
those who are helped by their parent or relative.

Then it's not DIY then is it.

[Rod Speed]

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 3 December 2019 15:16:45 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 2 December 2019 16:43:09 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 30 November 2019 03:58:07 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 29 November 2019 15:23:00 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 17:00:06 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 15:24:25 UTC, Rod Speed
wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 09:13:02 UTC, harry wrote:
On Monday, 25 November 2019 14:00:29 UTC, Tricky Dicky
wrote:
I am with you John, it is amazing how quick threads
degenerate
to
political mudslinging or just general slanging off. I
think
the
record
is from a genuine DIY post to crap in about 5 posts.
See
if
the
trolls
can pick up on this thread and do their worst!

DIY is a disappearing skill these days.
The snowflake generation doesn't want to get it's hands
dirty.

I think you'll find the snowflake gen arenlt really
allowed
to.

Thats bull****.

I was refering to the UK mostly London properties.

Still bull**** there on the mostly.

Then show me those that you claim are affordable

Didnt say anything about affordable.

well who's going to buy things that aren't affordable ?

Those who have enough of a clue to realise that it
makes no sense to be pumping rent into a landlord's
pocket if its possible to buy a place instead.

But it's not possible for the majority or they'd do it.

Sure but it doesnt have to be the majority
to still have plenty that can be DIYed.

Depending on what you mean by plenty.
What do you mean by plenty

Those that are assisted by their parents to buy
the place,

So they aren;t doing it themselves are they.

The work they do on the house is.

landlords who choose to diy instead
of paying someone to do the work etc etc etc.

Most landlords don;t do that either,

Most never did diy so thats no different.

they donlt have the time as they
have properties to loko after

Its the diying that is the looking after, stupid.

or the get an estate agent to manage the property for them.

But dont do the work the agent tells
them needs to be done on the property,

can you show at least 3 properties in London that
a typical graduate on their first job can afford to buy
a do up as a DIY project while working full time.

Yep, those who are helped by their parents to buy the place.

Then it;s not DIY,

Corse it is with the work they do on the house.

The majority of school leavers or college grads
buying their first property don't have £50k plus
spare to put even a 10% depsoit down on a 1 bed flat.

See above.

Try finding a place in London then, go on prove it.

Not possible when you lot dont have lists of
what actually sold and how that was financed.

Why do you need a list use the estate agent sites.

Thats what they are offering, not what actually happens with the sale

The sales usually go for more as the listing as just a starting price.

Irrelevant to how its financed.

And it has nothing to do with you how such things are financed.

It does determine whether it can be diyed when
it isnt financed by part ownership by the financier
unless that is by the parents or a relative.

which it isn't it's a company that owns
the other half or 2/3 of the property.

But is what allows diy on that property,

Just because the for sale ad says that part
ownership is possible, doesnt mean that
it actually sold that way, particularly with
the ones that had help from their parents.

Yes it does the part ownership means the other
part is owned by a company that charges you
rent, even though you part own the property.

But they arent all sold like that, most obviously with
those who are helped by their parent or relative.

Then it's not DIY then is it.

Corse it is when they do the work themselves
instead of paying someone to do the work on it.

[Peeler[_4_]]

....and much better air in here, again!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

[Andrew[_22_]]

On 03/12/2019 11:05, whisky-dave wrote:
Depending on what you mean by plenty.
What do you mean by plenty can you show at least 3 properties in London that
a typical graduate on their first job can afford to buy a do up as a DIY project while working full time.



I moved to LOndon in Oct 1974 to work in the path labs of one of
the teaching hospitals, as a basic grade medical lab technician,
having just passed my HNC in med lab sciences and was paid £1,800
a year.

In those days rental flats were either very expensive upmarket
properties, or 'furnished accommodation', still expensive and
almost impossible to get one.

So most people resorted to flat sharing. This involved waiting
down one of the side roads off Fleet St at 10 AM to grab the
first daily print run of the Evening Standard, and then taking
part in that well known Olympic sport, getting to the first
available callbox (that worked) to start phoning the advert
numbers. This of course needed a bag full of coins, and a day
off work. No mobile phones in those days. Also no oyster cards
so getting to places to view flat-shares, and tube fares were
comparatively more expensive then (from recollection).

I was lucky and got a room with two crazy females with two
even more crazy cats. Apparently I was the only applicant
(there were about 30) to ask to see the pussys. (Cats !).

This flat was unfurnished, owned by the CofE and one of the
'girls' had got the tenancy some years before. At that time
CofE practice was to sell them when they became vacant, but
I think £30K was the going rate for a flat in that location
in 1974. I was VERY lucky to get a place there (W9).

So, nothing has changed. I could not possibly afford to buy
anywhere in 'London', and places like Brixton, Hackney, Kilburn,
the Old Kent Road, most of East London, Notting Hill,the entire
areas around Kings X or between 'South Chelsea' and East Croydon,
were the places that only the brave visited after dark.

Rent a flat or buy a flat there - madness, and anyway, house prices
and Londons population were falling in the 70's and the exodus
only stopped in about 1984/6 as banking deregulation started,
when docklands started to change from dereliction and slums to
glitzy tower blocks and the DLR.

Now there is a vast range of rental properties available which
weren't available in the 70's, but buying them is expensive.

Remember it was Nulab and G Brown who presided over the mother
of all housing booms between 1999 and 2007, during which time
they built zero council houses (preferring to leave that to
private developers and housing associations). They also put no
barriers in the way of overseas buyers with bags of cash buying
London properties, then selling at huge profit and paying no CGT
because, being non-resident for tax, CGT did not apply !

His BBC Labour Lordship Sir Alan Sugar made about £400 million in
property speculation during this period. More than he ever made
selling electronic junk. I wonder if he will vote for Corbyn ?.

[Andrew[_22_]]

On 01/12/2019 21:57, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/11/2019 16:42, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/11/2019 20:52, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 29/11/2019 11:39, whisky-dave wrote:
No it is not if you are looking for an 'affordable' property.
--------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38067626

In 2004, then Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott announced plans to
build homes for just £60,000.

Eight of the 10 planned developments were completed, but the houses
were sold for far more than promised - an average of £231,000 in one
development.

----------------

why do you thgink a significant number of properties are now offered
at 50% ownership or less and soem as little as 25%, because peole
just can;t afford £300,000+ for a one bed studio flat.

I did the maths for other reasons last week.

When I was a new grad the average salary was about 4k, and you could
buy a house in Reading for 20k.

Nowadays a grad gets about 12k (3 times more) and the house in
Reading is more like 200k (10 times more).

Not arguing the fundamental point, but that seems very low for a
realistic new graduate starting salary these days. Its less than
minimum wage. Even a modern apprentice will get 12K alongside training
etc.

(In fact £8-10K was a not untypical starting rate when I was a new
grad looking for my first job in 1988!)


You're right, that was a brain fart. It's 23k now for grads on average.

And it also occurred to me the repayments aren't just interest.

20k at 10% over 25 years (it of course went up and down over that
period) requires a payment of £2200. 55% of the 4k salary.

200k at 2% over 25 years requires 10,200. 45% of the corrected 23k salary.

Houses are actually cheaper...

Andy

MIRAS helped a lot, when it was available.

[Andrew[_22_]]

On 02/12/2019 13:22, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 1 December 2019 21:57:51 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/11/2019 16:42, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/11/2019 20:52, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 29/11/2019 11:39, whisky-dave wrote:
No it is not if you are looking for an 'affordable' property.
--------------
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38067626

In 2004, then Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott announced plans to
build homes for just £60,000.

Eight of the 10 planned developments were completed, but the houses
were sold for far more than promised - an average of £231,000 in one
development.

----------------

why do you thgink a significant number of properties are now offered
at 50% ownership or less and soem as little as 25%, because peole
just can;t afford £300,000+ for a one bed studio flat.

I did the maths for other reasons last week.

When I was a new grad the average salary was about 4k, and you could
buy a house in Reading for 20k.

Nowadays a grad gets about 12k (3 times more) and the house in Reading
is more like 200k (10 times more).

Not arguing the fundamental point, but that seems very low for a
realistic new graduate starting salary these days. Its less than minimum
wage. Even a modern apprentice will get 12K alongside training etc.

(In fact £8-10K was a not untypical starting rate when I was a new grad
looking for my first job in 1988!)


You're right, that was a brain fart. It's 23k now for grads on average.

And it also occurred to me the repayments aren't just interest.

20k at 10% over 25 years (it of course went up and down over that
period) requires a payment of £2200. 55% of the 4k salary.

200k at 2% over 25 years requires 10,200. 45% of the corrected 23k salary.

what about the 20% or so deposit ?
What about the maintaintance of communial gardens can be £50 to over £100 PCM.
You can't get out of these.

and of course they can;t con yuo with PPI now so they have other ways I've seen completion fees of ver £1500, sure it's just a one off payment.

In most cases graduates will still have their studetn loan to pay off.
A friend who is studing in huddersfield has debts of over £40k that's nore than the price of some of the houses there, and at 6% interest.
He will probably not pay it off and it gets written off anyway.

In the 70's only the top 5% went to Uni (free tuition + maint. grant).
You cannot send every 18 year old to Uni on the same deal, there just
aren't enough money trees available. Forget 'taxing the top 5%',
in the 70's the basic rate was 33%, the top rate was 83% and another
15% on top if you had any dividend or savings income.






Houses are actually cheaper...

How do you work that one out ?

Ultra low interest rates, massively subsidized by savers who are
getting almost bugger all interest.


Andy

[whisky-dave[_2_]]

On Tuesday, 3 December 2019 19:14:34 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 02/12/2019 13:22, whisky-dave wrote:


In most cases graduates will still have their studetn loan to pay off.
A friend who is studing in huddersfield has debts of over £40k that's nore than the price of some of the houses there, and at 6% interest.
He will probably not pay it off and it gets written off anyway.

In the 70's only the top 5% went to Uni

I thought it was the top 2%

(free tuition + maint. grant).
You cannot send every 18 year old to Uni on the same deal,

too true.

there just
aren't enough money trees available. Forget 'taxing the top 5%',
in the 70's the basic rate was 33%, the top rate was 83% and another
15% on top if you had any dividend or savings income.


Houses are actually cheaper...

How do you work that one out ?

Ultra low interest rates,

but ultra high amounts need to be borrowed. Which is why shared ownership is offered.


https://www.hsbc.co.uk/mortgages/how...ould-i-borrow/

as a graduate on £25K they'll lend you around £112K

Apart from barking and dagernham you won;t find much in london.





massively subsidized by savers who are
getting almost bugger all interest.


Andy

[whisky-dave[_2_]]

On Tuesday, 3 December 2019 19:14:34 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 02/12/2019 13:22, whisky-dave wrote:


In most cases graduates will still have their studetn loan to pay off.
A friend who is studing in huddersfield has debts of over £40k that's nore than the price of some of the houses there, and at 6% interest.

He will probably not pay it off and it gets written off anyway.

Only if you don't get a job or earn so little you won't get a mortgage.