In my earlier post I mentioned my BCO insisted I fit a Surge Protection Device (SPD). The item arrived today and because the Surge Devices web site has some information but not the full install instructions, I have scanned the instructions in case anyone else was thinking about one and would like further information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8nv5zyk29...anual.pdf?dl=0

Richard

On 18/11/2019 17:13, Tricky Dicky wrote:
In my earlier post I mentioned my BCO insisted I fit a Surge
Protection Device (SPD). The item arrived today and because the Surge
Devices web site has some information but not the full install
instructions, I have scanned the instructions in case anyone else was
thinking about one and would like further information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8nv5zyk29...anual.pdf?dl=0

Thanks for that...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 09:13:12 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

In my earlier post I mentioned my BCO insisted I fit a Surge Protection Device (SPD). The item arrived today and because the Surge Devices web site has some information but not the full install instructions, I have scanned the instructions in case anyone else was thinking about one and would like further information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8nv5zyk29...anual.pdf?dl=0

Am I correct in understanding that such devices are in general terms
only required where there are overhead power lines between the
sub-station and the premises that could potentially be struck by
lightning?

That's what I thought when I was trying to invoke the get out clause but my BCO was not having it. There are three types of SPD the Surge Devices website does explain the difference and has a handy device selector. The one posted is the recommended one for domestic situations with underground cables for fitting into Domestic Distribution panels (CU). It does not protect against direct lighthning strikes as it does not need to, but does protect against other causes of surges that could damage delicate electronics. I meant to mention that at present Toolstation is the cheapest supplier I have found @ £44 but do not expect to find it in your local store only available online.

Richard

On 18/11/2019 18:38, Tricky Dicky wrote:
That's what I thought when I was trying to invoke the get out clause but my BCO was not having it. There are three types of SPD the Surge Devices website does explain the difference and has a handy device selector. The one posted is the recommended one for domestic situations with underground cables for fitting into Domestic Distribution panels (CU). It does not protect against direct lighthning strikes as it does not need to, but does protect against other causes of surges that could damage delicate electronics. I meant to mention that at present Toolstation is the cheapest supplier I have found @ £44 but do not expect to find it in your local store only available online.

When I went to the ElexShow this year the CU manufactures were all
showing of their new CUs (obviously not MK) with SPDs built in at the
head end next to the main switch. I believe that they were all type 2
SPDs as I believe you can only use a type 1 with the additional
protection of a type 2 (for domestic properties). I should have taken
more notice, but I was actually there for info on the AFFDs.



--
Adam

ARW wrote:

When I went to the ElexShow this year the CU manufactures were all
showing of their new CUs (obviously not MK) with SPDs built in at the
head end next to the main switch.

Yes, from looking at them there, and from various youtube sparky
channels, the SPD seems to be wired between the L & N output sides of
the main switch and earth ... not seen one in a CU connected to L via a
32A MCN as the leaflet shows.

The other option apart from putting them in the CU, is to put them in an
separate isolator switch, e.g Wylex REC2SPD, Fusebox F1M2SPD, Lewden
SRG1VCU-RM

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC2SPD.html

https://www.gil-lec.co.uk/fusebox-f1m2spd-inline-surge-protection-unit-with-100a-main-switch

https://www.medlocks.co.uk/lewden-retrofit-type-2-surge-protection-unit-32a-mcb-100a-2p-main-switch

The last one *does* seem to include a 32A MCB to connect the SPD to.

Those AFDDs are quite expensive although on a par with the more expensive brands of RCBOs like MK. Using those double modules is going to have an impact on the size of CUs to accommodate them.

Richard

On 18/11/2019 17:13:12, Tricky Dicky wrote:
In my earlier post I mentioned my BCO insisted I fit a Surge Protection Device (SPD). The item arrived today and because the Surge Devices web site has some information but not the full install instructions, I have scanned the instructions in case anyone else was thinking about one and would like further information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8nv5zyk29...anual.pdf?dl=0


Is this not a contradiction:

"Connect to a 32A MCB b or c curve"
and
"You only need one arrester per board and all your outgoing circuits
on that board will be protected"

I thought the device relied on tripping a 32A MCB to disconnect that
specific circuit? Or will it take the company fuse with it?

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 19:21:20 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 18/11/2019 18:38, Tricky Dicky wrote:
That's what I thought when I was trying to invoke the get out clause but my BCO was not having it. There are three types of SPD the Surge Devices website does explain the difference and has a handy device selector. The one posted is the recommended one for domestic situations with underground cables for fitting into Domestic Distribution panels (CU). It does not protect against direct lighthning strikes as it does not need to, but does protect against other causes of surges that could damage delicate electronics. I meant to mention that at present Toolstation is the cheapest supplier I have found @ £44 but do not expect to find it in your local store only available online.

When I went to the ElexShow this year the CU manufactures were all
showing of their new CUs (obviously not MK) with SPDs built in at the
head end next to the main switch. I believe that they were all type 2
SPDs as I believe you can only use a type 1 with the additional
protection of a type 2 (for domestic properties). I should have taken
more notice, but I was actually there for info on the AFFDs.

Am I missing something? What has happened to MK?

On 18/11/2019 19:54, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

When I went to the ElexShow this year the CU manufactures were all
showing of their new CUs (obviously not MK) with SPDs built in at the
head end next to the main switch.

Yes, from looking at them there, and from various youtube sparky
channels, the SPD seems to be wired between the L & N output sides of
the main switch and earth ... not seen one in a CU connected to L via a
32A MCN as the leaflet shows.

The other option apart from putting them in the CU, is to put them in an
separate isolator switch, e.gÂ* Wylex REC2SPD, Fusebox F1M2SPD, Lewden
SRG1VCU-RM

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC2SPD.html

https://www.gil-lec.co.uk/fusebox-f1m2spd-inline-surge-protection-unit-with-100a-main-switch


https://www.medlocks.co.uk/lewden-retrofit-type-2-surge-protection-unit-32a-mcb-100a-2p-main-switch


The last one *does* seem to include a 32A MCB to connect the SPD to.

I think that is because the last one is a different approach from the
previous 2.

The first 2 are wired /in series/ with the CU; have a switch which
isolates the whole supply; and for overcurrent protection rely on what's
upstream of the tails - usually the main fuse.

The last one is wired /in parallel/ with the CU; has a "main switch"
which isolates /only/ the supply to the MCB and SPD; and needs the MCB
because it can be connected with 6mm cable.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Scott wrote:

What has happened to MK?

https://www.lewelectrical.co.uk/2019/08/23/mk-sentry-range-discontinued

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:53:32 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

What has happened to MK?

https://www.lewelectrical.co.uk/2019/08/23/mk-sentry-range-discontinued

Thanks. I was missing something.

Will this affect MK's status as (arguably) the market leader for
electric wiring equipment?

On 18/11/2019 20:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/11/2019 17:13:12, Tricky Dicky wrote:
In my earlier post I mentioned my BCO insisted I fit a Surge
Protection Device (SPD). The item arrived today and because the Surge
Devices web site has some information but not the full install
instructions, I have scanned the instructions in case anyone else was
thinking about one and would like further information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8nv5zyk29...anual.pdf?dl=0


Is this not a contradiction:

Â* "Connect to a 32A MCB b or c curve"
and
Â* "You only need one arrester per board and all your outgoing circuits
on that board will be protected"

I thought the device relied on tripping a 32A MCB to disconnect that
specific circuit? Or will it take the company fuse with it?

No, neither of those. The SPD would function even without the MCB. The
way it works is to "snub" the transient (either L to N or L/N to E) -
i.e. it passes a current limiting the rise in voltage. The downstream
equipment should be none the wiser, and carry on operating as normal.

The purpose of the MCB is just for the protection of the SPD - should it
fail short, or attempt to act on a significant surge that would result
in its destruction. With a 32A C Curve MCB, it can pass up to 320A for a
very short duration to effect the suppression (or =160A for a type B),
and beyond that the MCB would operate removing from the supply.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/11/2019 08:53, Andy Burns wrote:
Scott wrote:

Â*What has happened to MK?

https://www.lewelectrical.co.uk/2019/08/23/mk-sentry-range-discontinued


And

https://www.efixx.co.uk/Articles/mk-...consumer-units



--
Adam

On 18/11/2019 20:04, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Those AFDDs are quite expensive although on a par with the more expensive brands of RCBOs like MK. Using those double modules is going to have an impact on the size of CUs to accommodate them.



Quite expensive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad9i...youtu.be&t=133


AFDD, MCB and RCD in one single module unit.

I went down to the show partly to get info on them as we had a quote to
do that specced over 20 of them. That's the first £4K plus CU we have
quoted on.


--
Adam

On 19/11/2019 10:10:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/11/2019 20:56, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/11/2019 17:13:12, Tricky Dicky wrote:
In my earlier post I mentioned my BCO insisted I fit a Surge
Protection Device (SPD). The item arrived today and because the Surge
Devices web site has some information but not the full install
instructions, I have scanned the instructions in case anyone else was
thinking about one and would like further information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8nv5zyk29...anual.pdf?dl=0


Is this not a contradiction:

Â*Â* "Connect to a 32A MCB b or c curve"
and
Â*Â* "You only need one arrester per board and all your outgoing
circuits on that board will be protected"

I thought the device relied on tripping a 32A MCB to disconnect that
specific circuit? Or will it take the company fuse with it?

No, neither of those. The SPD would function even without the MCB. The
way it works is to "snub" the transient (either L to N or L/N to E) -
i.e. it passes a current limiting the rise in voltage. The downstream
equipment should be none the wiser, and carry on operating as normal.

The purpose of the MCB is just for the protection of the SPD - should it
fail short, or attempt to act on a significant surge that would result
in its destruction. With a 32A C Curve MCB, it can pass up to 320A for a
very short duration to effect the suppression (or =160A for a type B),
and beyond that the MCB would operate removing from the supply.

Thanks for the explanation.

Looking at some more info and their characteristics at raised voltages I
do wonder how effective these are at preventing high voltage transients.

John Rumm wrote:

The purpose of the MCB is just for the protection of the SPD - should it
fail short, or attempt to act on a significant surge that would result
in its destruction.

ISTR clive did an SPD teardown, and it relied on overload melting the
solder on a spring loaded contact ... maybe that's just the Lucky Golden
Hedgehog ones?

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:53:40 +0000, Fredxx wrote:



Looking at some more info and their characteristics at raised voltages I
do wonder how effective these are at preventing high voltage transients.

Not very, they are simply 3 voltage dependent resistors which
"prevent" transients by failing (much as "surge protected" extension
leads. Having failed they sit there being completely useless until
someone spots the little light on them and remembers this means you
have to go out and buy a replacement cassette (or a completely new
device at about the same price.

Any lightning near bye will destroy them long before they have done
any good so they are a triumph of rules for the sake of rules.

Fortunately they are not required in singe dwelling houses (Section
443) .

On 21/11/2019 14:19, Peter Parry wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:53:40 +0000, Fredxx wrote:



Looking at some more info and their characteristics at raised voltages I
do wonder how effective these are at preventing high voltage transients.

Not very, they are simply 3 voltage dependent resistors which
"prevent" transients by failing (much as "surge protected" extension
leads. Having failed they sit there being completely useless until
someone spots the little light on them and remembers this means you
have to go out and buy a replacement cassette (or a completely new
device at about the same price.

Any lightning near bye will destroy them long before they have done
any good so they are a triumph of rules for the sake of rules.

Fortunately they are not required in singe dwelling houses (Section
443) .



Does that include those with electric cars being charged ?.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 15:05:57 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 21/11/2019 14:19, Peter Parry wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:53:40 +0000, Fredxx wrote:



Looking at some more info and their characteristics at raised voltages I
do wonder how effective these are at preventing high voltage transients.

Not very, they are simply 3 voltage dependent resistors which
"prevent" transients by failing (much as "surge protected" extension
leads. Having failed they sit there being completely useless until
someone spots the little light on them and remembers this means you
have to go out and buy a replacement cassette (or a completely new
device at about the same price.

Any lightning near bye will destroy them long before they have done
any good so they are a triumph of rules for the sake of rules.

Fortunately they are not required in singe dwelling houses (Section
443) .



Does that include those with electric cars being charged ?.

There is no mention of electric cars.