What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

On 03/10/2019 09:50, Andy Burns wrote:
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

Have 62% of its surface area outside the house?


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On Thursday, 3 October 2019 09:50:26 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

Put it next to a magic German clay heater, redefine efficiency, and hope the ASA don't catch you too quickly?

Owain

On Thursday, 3 October 2019 09:50:26 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

Give it to a student.

whisky-dave wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

Give it to a student.

apparently the EU's method is to accept electric heating is 100%
efficient, then divide by a "conversion co-efficient" of 2.5 then add
and remove various fiddle factors

but 100% / 2.5 gives a starting point of 40%, so saying it must achieve
38% or higher is hardly onerous, it just means it can't have more than a
2% parasitic load ...

How are you judging efficiency?
After all I point my light detector at a heater of the electric kind and
it detects light. It may not be visible light but its probably higher in
frequency than is needed to heat things.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38%
efficient?

One assumes if you ran it on DC than it wood be better than AC in that case
as a lot of the time on ac its running under the power it was intended for?
Brian

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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
whisky-dave wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38%
efficient?

Give it to a student.

apparently the EU's method is to accept electric heating is 100%
efficient, then divide by a "conversion co-efficient" of 2.5 then add and
remove various fiddle factors

but 100% / 2.5 gives a starting point of 40%, so saying it must achieve
38% or higher is hardly onerous, it just means it can't have more than a
2% parasitic load ...

Brian Gaff wrote:

How are you judging efficiency?

the same way that the EU defines it for "lot 20" compliant heaters, they
should just call it a rating, rather than claiming it's a percentage
efficiency.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38%
efficient?

Let most of the heat escape or be released when heat isnt required
and is not wanted like with the original entirely passive storage
heaters when there is no one in the house because they are working
during the day and the heat is gone by the time they get home
after work and need heat then in a not very well insulated house.

On 03/10/2019 17:11, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

How are you judging efficiency?

the same way that the EU defines it for "lot 20" compliant heaters, they
should just call it a rating, rather than claiming it's a percentage
efficiency.
Having just read this I quite agree its got nothing to do with
efficiency as any sane engineer would define it.

https://www.electricradiatorsdirect....ctric-heating/

To comply with the new Lot 20 regulations, all local space heaters will
have to meet a minimum efficiency rating expressed as a percentage. This
differs between specific heater categories, however, most electric
heaters will begin with a base rating of 30% to account for losses in
Europes power generation infrastructure.

Efficiency is determined by how many energy saving features are
incorporated into the product;

A fixed electric local space heater will gain a 7% bonus to its rating
if it comes equipped with electronic room temperature controls and a
weekly programmer.

Heaters that include an open window detection feature; distance control
option, such as Wi-Fi compatibility; or an adaptive start system, will
then be brought over the 38% efficiency line. If they feature two or
more of these features, theyll be offering above and beyond the
requirements set out by the new legislation.



--
Chris B (News)

AlexK wrote:

Let most of the heat escape or be released when heat isnt required
and is not wanted like with the original entirely passive storage
heaters

No, the 38% is not applied to storage heaters

Chris B wrote:

Having just read this I quite agree its got nothing to do with
efficiency as any sane engineer would define it.

https://www.electricradiatorsdirect....ctric-heating/

most electric heaters will begin with a base rating of 30%

It gets less sane if you read

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32015R1188&from=EN

because the base rating turns out to be 40% (100/2.5) not 30%

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 02:17:39 +1000, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


Let most of the

You'd better worry what won't let you sleep in every night between 1 and 4
am, you brain damaged trolling senile pest!

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On Thursday, 3 October 2019 11:57:18 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
apparently the EU's method is to accept electric heating is 100%
efficient, then divide by a "conversion co-efficient" of 2.5 then add
and remove various fiddle factors

So gas heating is more efficient than electric heating, but gas heating is being phased out...?

Owain

On 03/10/2019 17:23, Chris B wrote:
On 03/10/2019 17:11, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

How are you judging efficiency?

the same way that the EU defines it for "lot 20" compliant heaters,
they should just call it a rating, rather than claiming it's a
percentage efficiency.
Having just read this I quite agree its got nothing to do with
efficiency as any sane engineer would define it.

https://www.electricradiatorsdirect....ctric-heating/


To comply with the new Lot 20 regulations, all local space heaters will
have to meet a minimum efficiency rating expressed as a percentage. This
differs between specific heater categories, however, most electric
heaters will begin with a base rating of 30% to account for losses in
Europes power generation infrastructure.

Efficiency is determined by how many energy saving features are
incorporated into the product;

A fixed electric local space heater will gain a 7% bonus to its rating
if it comes equipped with electronic room temperature controls and a
weekly programmer.

Heaters that include an open window detection feature; distance control
option, such as Wi-Fi compatibility; or an adaptive start system, will
then be brought over the 38% efficiency line. If they feature two or
more of these features, theyll be offering above and beyond the
requirements set out by the new legislation.


So add "features" which will either break or will cease to be supported
within the next 5 years.

User then tosses the old heater into the WEEE mountain, and then buys a
new one.

The gadgets on the first heater save bugger all energy/CO2 compared to
an average human being with an ounce of common sense, and any savings
are wiped out when the replacement is purchased.

On Thursday, 3 October 2019 09:50:26 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

Absolutely nothing.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
AlexK wrote:

Let most of the heat escape or be released when heat isnt required
and is not wanted like with the original entirely passive storage
heaters

No, the 38% is not applied to storage heaters

You said nothing about what it applied to in your OP.

On 03/10/2019 09:50, Andy Burns wrote:
What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38% efficient?

Remove the glass from the windows ?

On 03/10/2019 11:57, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38%
efficient?

Give it to a student.

apparently the EU's method is to accept electric heating is 100%
efficient, then divide by a "conversion co-efficient" of 2.5 then add
and remove various fiddle factors

but 100% / 2.5 gives a starting point of 40%, so saying it must achieve
38% or higher is hardly onerous, it just means it can't have more than a
2% parasitic load ...


Isn't that 'climate science' ?

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 3 October 2019 11:57:18 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
apparently the EU's method is to accept electric heating is 100%
efficient, then divide by a "conversion co-efficient" of 2.5 then add
and remove various fiddle factors

So gas heating is more efficient than electric heating, but gas heating is
being phased out...?

Because the gas will run out while we can still generate electricity
and very efficiently with nukes. And it makes sense to use the gas
in cars which can't be run on electricity so efficiently.

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 04:58:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Because the gas will run out while we can

Who's that "we" you keep constantly hallucinating about, psychopath? Nobody,
but NOBODY, identifies with an abnormal idiot like you. NEITHER in real life
NOR online!

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a Female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from from you boring
them to death."
MID:

On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 04:32:02 +1000, AlexKcantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Let most of the heat escape or be released when heat isnt required
and is not wanted like with the original entirely passive storage
heaters

No, the 38% is not applied to storage heaters

You said nothing about what it applied to in your OP.

He did, idjit!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On 03/10/2019 18:41, John Kenyon wrote:
On 03/10/2019 17:23, Chris B wrote:
On 03/10/2019 17:11, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

How are you judging efficiency?

the same way that the EU defines it for "lot 20" compliant heaters,
they should just call it a rating, rather than claiming it's a
percentage efficiency.
Having just read this I quite agree its got nothing to do with
efficiency as any sane engineer would define it.

https://www.electricradiatorsdirect....ctric-heating/


To comply with the new Lot 20 regulations, all local space heaters will
have to meet a minimum efficiency rating expressed as a percentage. This
differs between specific heater categories, however, most electric
heaters will begin with a base rating of 30% to account for losses in
Europes power generation infrastructure.

Efficiency is determined by how many energy saving features are
incorporated into the product;

A fixed electric local space heater will gain a 7% bonus to its rating
if it comes equipped with electronic room temperature controls and a
weekly programmer.

Heaters that include an open window detection feature; distance control
option, such as Wi-Fi compatibility; or an adaptive start system, will
then be brought over the 38% efficiency line. If they feature two or
more of these features, theyll be offering above and beyond the
requirements set out by the new legislation.


So add "features" which will either break or will cease to be supported
within the next 5 years.

User then tosses the old heater into the WEEE mountain, and then buys a
new one.

The gadgets on the first heater save bugger all energy/CO2 compared to
an average human being with an ounce of common sense, and any savings
are wiped out when the replacement is purchased.


A perfect example of how to use regulations and product 'features' to
create planned obsolescence, waste resources, and create unnecessary
employment whilst lowering everyone's living standards, except those at
the top of the industrial/political empire.


Welcome to rampant greedy elitist capitalism sold as socialism and 'green'.

Remember, people calling themselves socialists *are* the people they
warned you about.


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 03/10/2019 19:49, Andrew wrote:
On 03/10/2019 11:57, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

What could you do to make an electric space heater less than 38%
efficient?

Give it to a student.

apparently the EU's method is to accept electric heating is 100%
efficient, then divide by a "conversion co-efficient" of 2.5 then add
and remove various fiddle factors

but 100% / 2.5 gives a starting point of 40%, so saying it must
achieve 38% or higher is hardly onerous, it just means it can't have
more than a 2% parasitic load ...


Isn't that 'climate science' ?

I thnk it is more 'Abbottonomics'


--
€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell