Hi all,
I am new to this and I am only posting my question after reading a
bunch of threads regarding the electric underfloor heating. I am
rennovating a large apt (230 m2) and I am looking into underfloor
heating. I am between the conventional water pipe system vs the
electric heating system.

My question is really if someone out there has used the AHT-Heating
systems which seem promising and promise great energy savings (assuming
a well insulated house). The edge of this technology is that it uses an
amorpous alloy ribbon that increases the actual heat transfer area over
more widely used wires and has a much lower profile of 20-30 microns.

Has anyone used this system? I would like to hear some comments on it.

Thanks for your input.

CQ

Failed to mention their website www.aht-heating.com for those who would
like to take a look. I am not marketing their products in any way. I am
just trying to get some information on this technology from people who
have used it. It's realtively new and not that many users out there I
presume.
Thanks again,
CQ

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
I am new to this and I am only posting my question after reading a
bunch of threads regarding the electric underfloor heating. I am
rennovating a large apt (230 m2) and I am looking into underfloor
heating. I am between the conventional water pipe system vs the
electric heating system.

My question is really if someone out there has used the AHT-Heating
systems which seem promising and promise great energy savings (assuming
a well insulated house). The edge of this technology is that it uses an
amorpous alloy ribbon that increases the actual heat transfer area over
more widely used wires and has a much lower profile of 20-30 microns.

Has anyone used this system? I would like to hear some comments on it.

Thanks for your input.

CQ


The laws of physics tell me the amount of heat you get out is the same as
the heat you put in. This sounds like snake oil. Go for the most reliable
system. The idea of an "amorphous alloy" sounds very worrying!

wrote:

My question is really if someone out there has used the AHT-Heating
systems which seem promising and promise great energy savings (assuming
a well insulated house). The edge of this technology is that it uses an
amorpous alloy ribbon that increases the actual heat transfer area over
more widely used wires and has a much lower profile of 20-30 microns.

And what is the supposed result of using such a magical heat-transfer
medium?

Any electric heating system will be 100% efficient at the point of use.
They can't better that.


--
Grunff

Grunff wrote:
wrote:

My question is really if someone out there has used the AHT-Heating
systems which seem promising and promise great energy savings (assuming
a well insulated house). The edge of this technology is that it uses an
amorpous alloy ribbon that increases the actual heat transfer area over
more widely used wires and has a much lower profile of 20-30 microns.

And what is the supposed result of using such a magical heat-transfer
medium?

You might get marginally faster warmup, though I doubt it'd be
measurable.

Any electric heating system will be 100% efficient at the point of use.
They can't better that.

With the small caveat of heat-pump systems.

The idea is that the alloy has no heat capacity at all and transfers
all the energy given to it immediately. That resulting in fast results
and no losses. They claim that in a well insulated house the real
consumption is only 20% of the time the heating is turned on. So if you
are running it for 10 hours a day, the consumption would only 2 hrs
worth.

Also, the increased heat transfer area ensures more even heating.

Just adding what I have heard from the distributor and read from
marketing docs. No real experience with the material.

wrote:

The idea is that the alloy has no heat capacity at all and transfers
all the energy given to it immediately. That resulting in fast results
and no losses.

With any electric heating system there will be no losses. The size of
the heating wire is negligible compared to the thermal mass of the
building (even a "slow" wire based system will be up to temperature in
seconds, the house is at best going to take tens of mins to respond). So
basically you can ignore all the marketing bull and get back to first
principles.

If you house needs an average constant input of 5kW of energy to keep
warm, then that is what it takes - the source makes no real difference.
The cost of running any electrical system[1] that does that will be much
the same.

[1] Someone did mention heat pumps, which will recover heat from outside
and pump it in, giving and effective rate that exceeds the amount of
electricity consumed.

They claim that in a well insulated house the real
consumption is only 20% of the time the heating is turned on. So if you
are running it for 10 hours a day, the consumption would only 2 hrs
worth.

This is more the key - good insulation will reduce heat loss
grammatically. The same percentage savings would again be archived with
any heating system though.

Just adding what I have heard from the distributor and read from
marketing docs. No real experience with the material.

Apply some logic and you will see you have electric UFH. If that is your
only source of heat it is likely to be pricey to run. Also look at the
power requirements - you are talking about lots of floor area - have you
worked out the power consumption for the house with it all running?

Have you done any heat loss calculations for the house? If not google
back on this group for some information. That needs to be the first step
so that you know what level of heating you are going to need.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
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\================================================= ================/

wrote:
Hi all,
I am new to this and I am only posting my question after reading a
bunch of threads regarding the electric underfloor heating. I am
rennovating a large apt (230 m2) and I am looking into underfloor
heating. I am between the conventional water pipe system vs the
electric heating system.

My question is really if someone out there has used the AHT-Heating
systems which seem promising and promise great energy savings (assuming
a well insulated house). The edge of this technology is that it uses an
amorpous alloy ribbon that increases the actual heat transfer area over
more widely used wires and has a much lower profile of 20-30 microns.

Has anyone used this system? I would like to hear some comments on it.

Thanks for your input.

CQ

Efficiency and cost has everything to do with the ratio of conductivity
from the wire to where you need the heat, and from the wire to where you
don't want the heat to go...it has nothing to do with the actual heating
elements themselves.

Cost is related to the cost of the energy used, and the amount that DOES
gate wasted via conduction paths elsewhere, and how big a surface area
you have to keep heat way through and how much ofa temperature gradient
you get across it.

All other things being equal, and in comparing wet:electric, mostly they
are, your only variables are installation cost and energy cost.

Since electricity is about twice whats any other form of heating is, its
a thumbs down for electric all the way.

The only time to install electric UFH on any appreciably sized area is,
as with mains halogen spotlights, when you want to do a quick and very
cheap job that will sell your house and leave the running costs with
some other sucker.

wrote:
The idea is that the alloy has no heat capacity at all and transfers
all the energy given to it immediately. That resulting in fast results
and no losses. They claim that in a well insulated house the real
consumption is only 20% of the time the heating is turned on. So if you
are running it for 10 hours a day, the consumption would only 2 hrs
worth.

Haha.
Taking the ****ing ****.


Also, the increased heat transfer area ensures more even heating.

Just adding what I have heard from the distributor and read from
marketing docs. No real experience with the material.

Run, as far and as fast as you can, possibly stopping at trading
standards on the way.

Conventional electric underfloor heating cable heats up well within 60
seconds, and the 'alloy' (which will have heat capacity, as all physical
objects do) will do much the same.

It will still have to heat cold floor structures, utterly swamping any
possible thermal capacity of the cable.

That's not to say it's any worse than other brands, but if their
marketing people tell blatant lies, why should you have more confidence
in their installation, or guarantee?

wrote:
Hi all,
I am new to this and I am only posting my question after reading a
bunch of threads regarding the electric underfloor heating. I am
rennovating a large apt (230 m2) and I am looking into underfloor
heating. I am between the conventional water pipe system vs the
electric heating system.

My question is really if someone out there has used the AHT-Heating
systems which seem promising and promise great energy savings (assuming
a well insulated house). The edge of this technology is that it uses an
amorpous alloy ribbon that increases the actual heat transfer area over
more widely used wires and has a much lower profile of 20-30 microns.

Has anyone used this system? I would like to hear some comments on it.

Not this particular system, but it sounds just like any other electric
UFH system to me. Basicly the bottom line is not to do with energy
transfer from the heater (whether it be electric wires or water-filled
pipes) but the cost of the energy required. Using a gas boiler to heat
water-filled pipes is still MUCH cheaper than electric heating.

For 230m2 I would say you are looking at a truly enormous electricity
bill. Of course, you probably can't fit a wet system becasue it would
entail removing all the concrete floors first. If you don't want rads,
there are other options that are less intrusive but still a lot cheaper
to run than electric-based heating. I have seen flat panel radiators
that you then paint over so they're virtually invisible. Sorry, can't
remeber where I've seent ehm though.

Good luck. And ignore the company's hype about specific heat capacity -
completely negligable compared to the specific heat capacity of the
floor!

Jon.

wrote:
The idea is that the alloy has no heat capacity at all

I knew there'd be magic somewhere in there.


and transfers
all the energy given to it immediately. That resulting in fast results
and no losses.

There are never any losses, all the heat generated by an element
*always* ends up in the surroundings.


They claim that in a well insulated house the real
consumption is only 20% of the time the heating is turned on. So if you
are running it for 10 hours a day, the consumption would only 2 hrs
worth.

I won't even pretend to understand that statement.


Also, the increased heat transfer area ensures more even heating.

This may be true, but it depends on what the heating element is
installed in.


--
Grunff

The message .com
from contains these words:

The idea is that the alloy has no heat capacity at all and transfers
all the energy given to it immediately. That resulting in fast results
and no losses. They claim that in a well insulated house the real
consumption is only 20% of the time the heating is turned on. So if you
are running it for 10 hours a day, the consumption would only 2 hrs
worth.

So, where's all this free energy coming from? Or, to put it another way,
where's all the energy that traditional systems consume going?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.