On 25/09/2019 07:56, Alastair B. McDonald wrote:
On Monday, 23 September 2019 11:02:37 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
On 20/09/2019 18:56, Graham Easterling wrote:

As for photo's showing how much glaciers have retreated, there all photoshopped.

A recent wake held for a dead glacier in Greenland ignored the fact that
it was born 700 years ago at the start of the Little Ice Age.

Glaciers forming in an ice age, and melting when that ice age comes to
an end, are hardly news.

Which glacier was that?

Apologies, it was Iceland not Greenland:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49345912

And how do you know it was only formed 700 years ago?

Not from that article - the BBC coyly forgot to mention it.

Here is another glacier about to collapse and it has been around for more than 700 years: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49820542

Fascinating.

In your BBC article, the glacier in question is moving too fast.

In my BBC article, the glacier in question is moving too slowly.

Perhaps you, or the BBC, or someone, can say what the correct speed of
glacier movement is?

Kindly note that when ice ages end, glaciers melt and sea levels rise.
It's not 'news'.


--
Spike

On 25/09/2019 12:02, Alastair B. McDonald wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 September 2019 09:23:15 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
On 25/09/2019 07:56, Alastair B. McDonald wrote:
On Monday, 23 September 2019 11:02:37 UTC+1, Spike wrote:
On 20/09/2019 18:56, Graham Easterling wrote:

As for photo's showing how much glaciers have retreated, there all photoshopped.

A recent wake held for a dead glacier in Greenland ignored the fact that
it was born 700 years ago at the start of the Little Ice Age.

Glaciers forming in an ice age, and melting when that ice age comes to
an end, are hardly news.

Which glacier was that?

Apologies, it was Iceland not Greenland:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49345912

And how do you know it was only formed 700 years ago?

Not from that article - the BBC coyly forgot to mention it.

Here is another glacier about to collapse and it has been around for more than 700 years: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49820542

Fascinating.

In your BBC article, the glacier in question is moving too fast.

In my BBC article, the glacier in question is moving too slowly.

Perhaps you, or the BBC, or someone, can say what the correct speed of
glacier movement is?

Kindly note that when ice ages end, glaciers melt and sea levels rise.
It's not 'news'.

"Glacial motion can be fast (up to 30 m/day, observed on Jakobshavn Isbræ in Greenland) or slow (0.5 m/year on small glaciers or in the center of ice sheets), but is typically around 10 inches/day." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_motion

So the speed of movement of glaciers is highly variable (by a factor of
20,000 according to your figures), and therefore quoting the speed of
any one glacier is in itself meaningless - but the BBC, that doyen of
balance in this matter, mentions them without context anyway, for
reasons best known to themselves, although perception management may
have something to do with it. Therefore, unless context is supplied,
they can be dismissed as puffery.

The Little Ice Age was not an ice age, which lasts for millions of years. It was not even a glaciation which lasts for 100,000 years and causes large sea-level falls and rises as the ice sheets form and melt. It was just a cold period in western Europe when the glaciers advanced a little.

The LIA is something of a variable feast and almost certainly was not
limited to Western Europe. This from Wikipedia, which commences by
quoting from the IPCC's Third and Fourth reports:

=====

There is no consensus regarding the time when the Little Ice Age began,
but a series of events before the known climatic minima has often been
referenced. In the 13th century, pack ice began advancing southwards in
the North Atlantic, as did glaciers in Greenland. Anecdotal evidence
suggests expanding glaciers almost worldwide.

=====
and
=====

Therefore, any of several dates ranging over 400 years may indicate the
beginning of the Little Ice Age:

1250 for when Atlantic pack ice began to grow; cold period possibly
triggered or enhanced by the massive eruption of Samalas volcano in 1257[17]
1275 to 1300 based on the radiocarbon dating of plants killed by
glaciation
1300 for when warm summers stopped being dependable in Northern Europe
1315 for the rains and Great Famine of 1315€“1317
1550 for theorized beginning of worldwide glacial expansion
1650 for the first climatic minimum.

The Little Ice Age ended in the latter half of the 19th century or early
in the 20th century.

[note that this data is from referenced works]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age]

=====


In fact, the Greenland ice sheet is also retreating at an accelerating rate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49483580

I'm very sorry, but an article that starts with "Greenland's massive ice
sheet may have melted by a record amount..." is hardly an authoritative
statement on which to base anything at all. It equally 'may not' have
done so but such a biassed article would never say so. Further, given
the 20000:1 rate of glacier speeds, the mention of 'acceleration'
without context is also either misleading or irrelevant.

Spike, you wrote, "Kindly note that when ice ages end, glaciers melt and sea levels rise. It's not 'news'."

As I explained, the Little Ice Age was not an Ice Age or even a glaciation, the last of which ended 10,000 years ago.

It would appear that you are wrong in your restricted view of the LIA
both in terms of timing and extent.

It is news that after 10,000 years the ice is beginning to melt again, caused by CO2, and can only be stopped if we remove CO2 from the atmosphere. Just stopping our emissions will not be enough. Negative emissions are needed. How do you do that?

You only 'do that' if you believe in it rather than taking a broad view
of all the science and not just the BBC's highly partial view of it, and
are willing to condemn a highly restricted population to living in the
Middle Ages after spending fabulous wealth chasing a belief. When Ice
Ages end, as the last one is still doing, glaciers melt and seal levels
rise.

Regarding the BBC's one-sided, not-impartial view of the topic:

====

.....the BBC has spent six years trying to conceal. The story goes back
to a seminar, held in January 2006, where the BBC (to quote one of its
own reports) gathered €˜the best scientific experts who concluded that
€˜the weight of evidence no longer justifies equal space being given to
the opponents of the consensus on anthropogenic climate change.

......

Little has changed since. In 2011 the BBC published a defiant apologia €”
written by angry snails-expert-cum-climate-alarmist Professor Steve
Jones €” arguing that the BBCs bias on climate change was more than
justified by the science.

......

The BBC very much didnt want him [North Wales pensioner and blogger
(€˜Harmless Sky) Tony Newbery] to find out. For a week this month, it
has been spending perhaps £40,000 a day on a crack team of lawyers
trying to persuade €” successfully as it turned out €” an information
tribunal that this should remain confidential. Sadly for the BBC,
another enterprising blogger called Maurizio Morabito unearthed the
details anyway and published them on Monday via the website Watts Up
With That?

So who were all these €˜best scientific experts who did so much to shape
the BBCs climate policy (and by extension, one fears, government policy
too€¦)? Well, two were from Greenpeace; one was from Stop Climate Chaos;
one was a CO2 reduction expert from BP; one was from Npower Renewables;
one came from the left-leaning New Economics Foundation€¦ Only five of
those present could, in any way, be considered scientists with
disciplines even vaguely relevant to €˜climate change. And of these,
every one had a track record of climate alarmism. No wonder the BBC
tried so hard to keep the list of 28 a secret. Its claim that its policy
change was based on the €˜best scientific expertise turns out to have
been a massive lie.

=====

Full article at

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2012/11/...you-disgusted/


--
Spike