I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?

AJH

On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

HTH

Nick

In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?

AJH

It should, at least in theory.

At the risk of teaching you to suck eggs, you've got a couple of things
stacked against you. Soldering a corroded (rusty) surface, one that is
oily, and a vessel/tank.

Give the area a good clean with some degreaser, then some emery cloth or
similar, degrease again. Make sure the tank is open- you don't want the
heat used to solder to cause the air inside to expand an try and escape
via your joint/patch.

Tin the area, and the patch, flux both, place the patch in position and
heat. You may need a bit more solder but, hopefully, the patch will
'pull' into position (or nudge it) as the solder melts. Don't disturb
until it is cool, lead free is a s*d for 'dry joints' if moved while
cooling.

I'd be tempted, if the hole is small, to try and pull a bolt through
with a cotton thread. Place a nut on the outside, tighten, hold the bolt
thread with pliers, then solder over it. Clean the area first, as
before. I saw this done once, the chap used a wire through the hole to
tie the cotton to via the filler hole.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?

AJH

It should, at least in theory.

At the risk of teaching you to suck eggs, you've got a couple of things
stacked against you. Soldering a corroded (rusty) surface, one that is
oily, and a vessel/tank.

Give the area a good clean with some degreaser, then some emery cloth or
similar, degrease again. Make sure the tank is open- you don't want the
heat used to solder to cause the air inside to expand an try and escape
via your joint/patch.

Tin the area, and the patch, flux both, place the patch in position and
heat. You may need a bit more solder but, hopefully, the patch will
'pull' into position (or nudge it) as the solder melts. Don't disturb
until it is cool, lead free is a s*d for 'dry joints' if moved while
cooling.

I'd be tempted, if the hole is small, to try and pull a bolt through
with a cotton thread. Place a nut on the outside, tighten, hold the bolt
thread with pliers, then solder over it. Clean the area first, as
before. I saw this done once, the chap used a wire through the hole to
tie the cotton to via the filler hole.

I was once introduced to a car body repairer; he was: "George, the only
person I know who can weld two pieces of rust together.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Friday, 13 September 2019 13:15:14 UTC+1, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?

AJH

It's the flux that determines wetting or not. I'd reach for killed spirits for that job, but rosin can do it. Or you can try plumbing flux eg Laco.


NT

On 13/09/2019 14:05, Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

HTH

Nick

Thanks Nick, Toolstation here closed last week and I was after plain
solder as I will use a powder flux, after I clean it with a wire brush
and spirit of salts aka brick cleaner.

AJH

I hate modern solder. Now of course I can no longer see to do it, but this
new stuff actually smells worse than the lead stuff, probably different
flux, and also seems to be far less good at actually soldering stuff. Bah
humbug.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?

AJH

brazing is more likely to last.

flux and brass wire or silver solder if you don't have a powerful enough
torch to heat it.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I hate modern solder. Now of course I can no longer see to do it, but
this new stuff actually smells worse than the lead stuff, probably
different flux, and also seems to be far less good at actually
soldering stuff. Bah humbug.

If you are talking electronics, no reason at all not to use 60/40
multicore. All the big suppliers like CPC sell it - and you're unlikely
to be able to buy any electronics solder in a high street shop now anyway.

--
*We never really grow*up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 14 September 2019 12:04:14 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If you are talking electronics, no reason at all not to use 60/40
multicore. All the big suppliers like CPC sell it - and you're unlikely
to be able to buy any electronics solder in a high street shop now anyway.

Aldi

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 04:17:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 14 September 2019 12:04:14 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If you are talking electronics, no reason at all not to use 60/40
multicore. All the big suppliers like CPC sell it - and you're unlikely
to be able to buy any electronics solder in a high street shop now anyway.

Aldi
https://www.toolstation.com/professi...-solder/p81552

You have to go with your mum, sign a disclaimer and promise not to
heat it above ambient.

AB

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 04:17:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 14 September 2019 12:04:14 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

If you are talking electronics, no reason at all not to use 60/40
multicore. All the big suppliers like CPC sell it - and you're
unlikely to be able to buy any electronics solder in a high street
shop now anyway.

Aldi
https://www.toolstation.com/professi...-solder/p81552

You have to go with your mum, sign a disclaimer and promise not to
heat it above ambient.

You have a Toolstation on your High Street? ;-)

--
*On the seventh day He brewed beer *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:08:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 04:17:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 14 September 2019 12:04:14 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

If you are talking electronics, no reason at all not to use 60/40
multicore. All the big suppliers like CPC sell it - and you're
unlikely to be able to buy any electronics solder in a high street
shop now anyway.

Aldi
https://www.toolstation.com/professi...-solder/p81552

You have to go with your mum, sign a disclaimer and promise not to
heat it above ambient.

You have a Toolstation on your High Street? ;-)

Sadly no!

The nearest high st is 30km away.

We have a Screwfix in Derry though, a mere seven hours drive.

AB

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m... 191716373248

On 13/09/2019 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:
I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.


That turned out to be the solution, small plumbers merchant down the
road, actually the nearest shop had a 1/2 kilo roll under the counter.

Once I had wire brushed the rust off there were 3 small holes I could
just put a sewing needle through, Baker's No3 flux and they were easily
wetted and filled, so far a bit less than successful in floating a cover
plate over the lot, not that that's really necessary with a thick layer
of solder.

In the past I would have simply brazed without cleaning the rust as the
flux and acetylene flame work at red heat but I gave up my oxy-acetylene
when I retired, I have been tempted to try TIG with braze but I haven't
pursued it as I seemed to use too much argon.

AJH

On Saturday, 14 September 2019 22:07:26 UTC+1, AJH wrote:
On 13/09/2019 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:

I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.


That turned out to be the solution, small plumbers merchant down the
road, actually the nearest shop had a 1/2 kilo roll under the counter.

Once I had wire brushed the rust off there were 3 small holes I could
just put a sewing needle through, Baker's No3 flux and they were easily
wetted and filled, so far a bit less than successful in floating a cover
plate over the lot, not that that's really necessary with a thick layer
of solder.

In the past I would have simply brazed without cleaning the rust as the
flux and acetylene flame work at red heat but I gave up my oxy-acetylene
when I retired, I have been tempted to try TIG with braze but I haven't
pursued it as I seemed to use too much argon.

AJH

Gasless wire MIG is a joy to use. I 'grew up' on arc & to a lesser extent oxy.

I always wondered if one could use CO2 or even flame fumes in lieu of argon, I presume not.

Leaded solder is still used in electronics, just less so. Handy for large non-potable plumbing joints that are a pain to heat.


NT

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:34:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 14 September 2019 22:07:26 UTC+1, AJH wrote:
On 13/09/2019 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:

I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.


That turned out to be the solution, small plumbers merchant down the
road, actually the nearest shop had a 1/2 kilo roll under the counter.

Once I had wire brushed the rust off there were 3 small holes I could
just put a sewing needle through, Baker's No3 flux and they were easily
wetted and filled, so far a bit less than successful in floating a cover
plate over the lot, not that that's really necessary with a thick layer
of solder.

In the past I would have simply brazed without cleaning the rust as the
flux and acetylene flame work at red heat but I gave up my oxy-acetylene
when I retired, I have been tempted to try TIG with braze but I haven't
pursued it as I seemed to use too much argon.

AJH

Gasless wire MIG is a joy to use. I 'grew up' on arc & to a lesser extent oxy.

I always wondered if one could use CO2 or even flame fumes in lieu of argon, I presume not.

Leaded solder is still used in electronics, just less so. Handy for large non-potable plumbing joints that are a pain to heat.


NT

Any experience of Aldi/ Lidle el Cheapo welders?

I have a couple and tried to use one a few months back with zero
success.

Not sure if what I was trying to do was practical i.e replage a
damaged M5 threaded rod on a stove glass holding clip.

AB

On 14/09/2019 23:34, wrote:
On Saturday, 14 September 2019 22:07:26 UTC+1, AJH wrote:
On 13/09/2019 14:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On 13/09/2019 13:15, AJH wrote:

I need to solder a patch onto a rusty diesel tank, previously I used
60/40 tin lead solder but this is not readily available locally will a
lead free plumber's solder still wet fluxed steel?


I don't know the answer to your question but, if you have a Toolstation
nearby, their product 81552 might (expensively) meet your 60/40 spec.

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.


That turned out to be the solution, small plumbers merchant down the
road, actually the nearest shop had a 1/2 kilo roll under the counter.

Once I had wire brushed the rust off there were 3 small holes I could
just put a sewing needle through, Baker's No3 flux and they were easily
wetted and filled, so far a bit less than successful in floating a cover
plate over the lot, not that that's really necessary with a thick layer
of solder.

In the past I would have simply brazed without cleaning the rust as the
flux and acetylene flame work at red heat but I gave up my oxy-acetylene
when I retired, I have been tempted to try TIG with braze but I haven't
pursued it as I seemed to use too much argon.

AJH

Gasless wire MIG is a joy to use. I 'grew up' on arc & to a lesser extent oxy.


You're a better man than me if you can repair a rusty fuel tank that
way, though.

At least with an inverter stick welder I can *sometimes* fix the holes
that I have made in sheet metal.

newshound wrote:
In the past I would have simply brazed without cleaning the rust as the
flux and acetylene flame work at red heat but I gave up my oxy-acetylene
when I retired, I have been tempted to try TIG with braze but I haven't
pursued it as I seemed to use too much argon.


Gasless wire MIG is a joy to use. I 'grew up' on arc & to a lesser extent oxy.


You're a better man than me if you can repair a rusty fuel tank that
way, though.

At least with an inverter stick welder I can *sometimes* fix the holes
that I have made in sheet metal.

Yes, I have both a gasless MIG and an inverter stick welder and I find
the inverter welder much easier to use for most things. Though I
guess for really thin stuff the MIG might win.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
Any experience of Aldi/ Lidle el Cheapo welders?

I have a couple and tried to use one a few months back with zero
success.

Not sure if what I was trying to do was practical i.e replage a
damaged M5 threaded rod on a stove glass holding clip.

It's likely one of these things an experienced welder might be able to
make work OK.

It's a skill I've never mastered. Despite having a fairly decent MIG and
practising. Mainly to weld the thin stuff on car bodywork. Thicker stuff
is easier.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:53:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
Any experience of Aldi/ Lidle el Cheapo welders?

I have a couple and tried to use one a few months back with zero
success.

Not sure if what I was trying to do was practical i.e replage a
damaged M5 threaded rod on a stove glass holding clip.

It's likely one of these things an experienced welder might be able to
make work OK.

It's a skill I've never mastered. Despite having a fairly decent MIG and
practising. Mainly to weld the thin stuff on car bodywork. Thicker stuff
is easier.

I can weld straight runs without too many problems, but that's about
it. I do not have the experience to know whether what I tried was
possible with my gear.

I suppose really, that like plastering, I will just have to accept
that is a skill I will never be able to master :-(

I took the door to a welder in the end and he accopmlished it using a
MIG device. I suppose the one face saving thing was that he did say at
the start he couldn't guarantee it would work. He was probably being
kind :-)

AB

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 08:36:59 UTC+1, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 15:34:49 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

Gasless wire MIG is a joy to use. I 'grew up' on arc & to a lesser extent oxy.

I always wondered if one could use CO2 or even flame fumes in lieu of argon, I presume not.

Leaded solder is still used in electronics, just less so. Handy for large non-potable plumbing joints that are a pain to heat.


NT

Any experience of Aldi/ Lidle el Cheapo welders?

I have a couple and tried to use one a few months back with zero
success.

Not sure if what I was trying to do was practical i.e replage a
damaged M5 threaded rod on a stove glass holding clip.

AB

Some but not a lot. Poorer arc stability compared to better ones, harder to strike, but did the job.


NT

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 09:34:34 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 14/09/2019 23:34, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 14 September 2019 22:07:26 UTC+1, AJH wrote:

Think most plumber's merchants still stock leaded. For non potable use.


That turned out to be the solution, small plumbers merchant down the
road, actually the nearest shop had a 1/2 kilo roll under the counter.

Once I had wire brushed the rust off there were 3 small holes I could
just put a sewing needle through, Baker's No3 flux and they were easily
wetted and filled, so far a bit less than successful in floating a cover
plate over the lot, not that that's really necessary with a thick layer
of solder.

In the past I would have simply brazed without cleaning the rust as the
flux and acetylene flame work at red heat but I gave up my oxy-acetylene
when I retired, I have been tempted to try TIG with braze but I haven't
pursued it as I seemed to use too much argon.

AJH

Gasless wire MIG is a joy to use. I 'grew up' on arc & to a lesser extent oxy.


You're a better man than me if you can repair a rusty fuel tank that
way, though.

At least with an inverter stick welder I can *sometimes* fix the holes
that I have made in sheet metal.

MIG is the ideal welder for that sort of thing. And gasless MIG is the cheap MIG unless you're using it frequently.


NT