Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining area of
my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a supporting
wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at the end wall of
the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside wall of the house.
The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the wall of the garage which
is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an unsupported right angle instead
of the dining area wall and the wall with the kitchen door. I don't want to
have to put a column under this right angle joint in the RSJs as this would
defeat the purpose of removing the walls. I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...o-1382953-.htm

On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, Su wrote:
Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining area of
my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a supporting
wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at the end wall of
the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside wall of the house.
The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the wall of the garage which
is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an unsupported right angle instead
of the dining area wall and the wall with the kitchen door. I don't want to
have to put a column under this right angle joint in the RSJs as this would
defeat the purpose of removing the walls. I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...o-1382953-.htm

tell me this is a wind-up.

That sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me, unless you have not
explained it very well!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Su" m wrote in message
oupdirect.com...
Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining area
of
my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a
supporting
wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at the end wall
of
the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside wall of the
house.
The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the wall of the garage
which
is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an unsupported right angle
instead
of the dining area wall and the wall with the kitchen door. I don't want
to
have to put a column under this right angle joint in the RSJs as this
would
defeat the purpose of removing the walls. I saw a similar unsupported
right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How
much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

--
for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...o-1382953-.htm

If she has invented a Sky hook I need one myself.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, Su wrote:
Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining
area of
my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a
supporting
wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at the end wall
of
the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside wall of the
house.
The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the wall of the garage
which
is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an unsupported right angle
instead
of the dining area wall and the wall with the kitchen door. I don't want
to
have to put a column under this right angle joint in the RSJs as this
would
defeat the purpose of removing the walls. I saw a similar unsupported
right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How
much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...o-1382953-.htm

tell me this is a wind-up.

On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, Su wrote:
I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

About £45,000.

You're lucky it was George Clarke. If it had been Kevin McLeod it would be £85,000.

Owain

On 12/09/2019 05:28, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, Su wrote:
Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining area of
my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a supporting
wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at the end wall of
the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside wall of the house.
The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the wall of the garage which
is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an unsupported right angle instead
of the dining area wall and the wall with the kitchen door. I don't want to
have to put a column under this right angle joint in the RSJs as this would
defeat the purpose of removing the walls. I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...o-1382953-.htm

tell me this is a wind-up.


I havn't quite unravelled the geometry. There is one case where an
(apparently) unsupported right angle might be justifiable, and that is
where there is a long RSJ on piers or a wall, possibly with a wall on
top of that (providing more weight). One (or both) ends could then be
extended a limited distance as a cantilever(s) supporting another RSJ at
right angles. In fact an RSJ could be supported on a pair of cantilevers
(think Car Port, if you like).

Only a structural engineer could tell you whether such a structure would
be compliant with building regs and it would all depend on the detail.

But it is not uncommon in industry, for example to provide a rail for a
small travelling hoist. You need more steel than you would for a more
conventional braced (triangulated) structure, but it can be done.

Su m wrote:

Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining area
of my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a
supporting wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at
the end wall of the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside
wall of the house. The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the
wall of the garage which is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an
unsupported right angle instead of the dining area wall and the wall with
the kitchen door. I don't want to have to put a column under this right
angle joint in the RSJs as this would defeat the purpose of removing the
walls. I saw a similar unsupported right angle RSJs on George Clarke's
Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much do you think the RSJs
would cost and the building work required? -- for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...ted-right-angl
e-in-rsj-s-to-suppo-1382953-.htm

Might work if each RSJ extends out of the wall by about 10 feet and is
fixed to a large ground anchor.


--

Roger Hayter

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 10:34:35 AM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 12/09/2019 05:28, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, Su wrote:
Hello, I want to take down the walls between my kitchen and my dining area of
my through sitting/dining room. I am unsure whether this wall is a supporting
wall. The RSJ could sit on a column of interior wall left at the end wall of
the house and extend inwards perpendicular to the outside wall of the house.
The other RSJ could be supported on the corner of the wall of the garage which
is inline with the kitchen door, so forming an unsupported right angle instead
of the dining area wall and the wall with the kitchen door. I don't want to
have to put a column under this right angle joint in the RSJs as this would
defeat the purpose of removing the walls. I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...o-1382953-.htm

tell me this is a wind-up.


I havn't quite unravelled the geometry. There is one case where an
(apparently) unsupported right angle might be justifiable, and that is
where there is a long RSJ on piers or a wall, possibly with a wall on
top of that (providing more weight). One (or both) ends could then be
extended a limited distance as a cantilever(s) supporting another RSJ at
right angles. In fact an RSJ could be supported on a pair of cantilevers
(think Car Port, if you like).

Only a structural engineer could tell you whether such a structure would
be compliant with building regs and it would all depend on the detail.

But it is not uncommon in industry, for example to provide a rail for a
small travelling hoist. You need more steel than you would for a more
conventional braced (triangulated) structure, but it can be done.

Common on a small scale in lots of corner shops with a door on the diagonal across the corner, and normal corner above. As said, it is a cantilever which need enough downward force on the supported section - this could be supplied by weight above or something fixed to the ground the pull the supported section down. Also the length and leverage of the supported section is relevant. Basically, consult a structural engineer.
Simon.

She needs to suspend the unsupported corner where two RSJs
meet from the roof trusses above :-)


On 12/09/2019 07:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
That sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me, unless you have not
explained it very well!
Brian

On 12/09/2019 08:26, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, Su wrote:
I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently. How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

About £45,000.

You're lucky it was George Clarke. If it had been Kevin McLeod it would be £85,000.

Owain


Previous houses shown on George Clarke series have fallen foul of
basic errors in building regs, which is odd for an architect.

On 12/09/2019 15:34, Andrew wrote:
On 12/09/2019 08:26, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:49:07 UTC+1, SuÂ* wrote:
I saw a similar unsupported right
angle RSJs on George Clarke's Ugly house to Beautiful house recently.
How much
do you think the RSJs would cost and the building work required?

About £45,000.

You're lucky it was George Clarke. If it had been Kevin McLeod it
would be £85,000.

Owain


Previous houses shown on George Clarke series have fallen foul of
basic errors in building regs, which is odd for an architect.


architects don't always do the structural stuff and when they do they
frequently do it wrong.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
Previous houses shown on George Clarke series have fallen foul of
basic errors in building regs, which is odd for an architect.


architects don't always do the structural stuff and when they do they
frequently do it wrong.

Any worthy of the name gets a structural engineer to do the calculations
and working drawings.

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/09/2019 00:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
Previous houses shown on George Clarke series have fallen foul of
basic errors in building regs, which is odd for an architect.


architects don't always do the structural stuff and when they do they
frequently do it wrong.

Any worthy of the name gets a structural engineer to do the calculations
and working drawings.


The house in question had an extension and the upper floor
ceiling opened up to give a vaulted ceiling and mezzanine.

The failure was not structural but non-compliance with
some aspects of fire safety or thermal regs.

A friend had a house with an L-shaped lounge dining area, with the two internal walls of the L being the kitchen. He wanted to convert then kitchen adding part of the dining area to the kitchen and at the same time narrowing the kitchen so both rooms became rectangular along side each other. As the original kitchen walls supported other walls above he had to provide RSJs for that purpose. One RSJ went from one outer wall to another whilst the second RSJ was bolted to the first and extended T-shaped to another outer wall.. I do not know if this is similar to what the OP wants as I could not fully make out what she had in mind, all I know that my friends T arrangement was kosher and he was able to show me the structural engineers drawings and calculations.

Richard