Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

GB wrote:

he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

What if some part of the service head disintegrated as he pulled the
fuse and made a short across the incomer, protected only by whatever
fuse is out in the street/substation?

On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 16:05:27 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

GB wrote:

he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

What if some part of the service head disintegrated as he pulled the
fuse and made a short across the incomer, protected only by whatever
fuse is out in the street/substation?

Indeed. Some of those fuse carriers have been known to fall apart, too.

When someone I know (ahem) fitted a DP 100A isolator, they togged up just
like that.

And turning off the consumer unit would not isolate anything he was
working on.



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On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:53:41 +0100, GB wrote:
The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.
Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Clearly not as much as you think.
He was taking adequate precautions against the fuse carrier/fuse/cut-out
falling apart when he pulled it.

On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Well now you know how to do safe live working :-)

It may not apply to your install, but there is a short circuit risk with
some fuse carriers[1]. So depending on the earth loop impedance and the
capacity of your substation transformer, you could be into arc flash
territory, and the associated explosive short and spraying of molten
metal about.

So its got to be simpler to take the relevant precautions rather than
spend time investigating the exact circumstance of every install, since
its little extra effort.

[1]

The old metal clad incomers with ceramic fuse carriers in particular can
end up pulling the incoming live onto the earthed casework should
anything fall apart as you pull the fuse.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...CladCutout.jpg

--
Cheers,

John.

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On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?


The main fuse is before the consumer unit.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

I did read that the Sky engineer now has to screw the top of his ladder to
the wall when fitting a new dish. Dunno how true this is. But, there would
be nobody on the ground to hold the ladder if it slipped.
In a past life and as a contractor I mounted 4 steps of a ladder in a
chemical factory - 2 more steps to go. I was gripped by the big cheese and
told not to go any further as I would get cancer. He was dressed up like a
spaceman and asked me to the same. I waited until he has gone and went up
the further 2 steps. I suppose that he was doing his job.

On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

I have worked on live 3 phase, which I thought had been isolated: I had
all the main fuses lying on the work surface in front of me. There was
an additional link to the incomer that 1) I didn't know about and 2)
shouldn't have been there that had been added by a cowboy in the past.
It was following safe working practices, such as those, that saved me
from even knowing the parts were live until later.

--
Colin Bignell

On 04/09/2019 17:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?


The main fuse is before the consumer unit.


I was thinking about some massive inductive load inside the house, but
apparently I should have thought of the fuse holder falling to bits and
splashing molten metal about.

I did ask him whether he or his colleagues had ever had a large flash,
and he said no they hadn't. However, I agree that with even a tiny
possibility of the fuse holder vapourising I'd take precautions too.

The Eon man's precautions only protected his face and lower arms.
Apparently, branding your chest with molten metal (he was just wearing a
T shirt) is a sign of machismo.

On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?


An old mate of mine did the forensic investigation after an accident
where someone was standing on top of big 11kV cables in a cable tray in
order to fix something to the wall above. This was enough to breach the
cable insulation. It was not a pleasant job.

newshound wrote:

On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?


An old mate of mine did the forensic investigation after an accident
where someone was standing on top of big 11kV cables in a cable tray in
order to fix something to the wall above. This was enough to breach the
cable insulation. It was not a pleasant job.

There was a similar very sad accident in the North Midlands a few years
back where apparently a young and inexperienced manager had been left in
charge of a substation and someone was sent to work on some fairly high
voltage plant which had been switched off, but other cables that crossed
his position had not been switched off. That was what the newspaper
said, anyway, I never saw an official report.

--

Roger Hayter

Maybe he used to be a drain unblocker?
Brian

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"GB" wrote in message
...
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves. Fair
enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Well, if that were the case why don't all these folk tog up this way, and
they don't!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:

he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

What if some part of the service head disintegrated as he pulled the fuse
and made a short across the incomer, protected only by whatever fuse is
out in the street/substation?

On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?



Friends jack russell has rolled in some fox poo, so send him
round to the so-and-so and give it a bath in some bleach.

The dog that is.

On 04/09/2019 17:09, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

I did read that the Sky engineer now has to screw the top of his ladder to
the wall when fitting a new dish. Dunno how true this is. But, there would
be nobody on the ground to hold the ladder if it slipped.
In a past life and as a contractor I mounted 4 steps of a ladder in a
chemical factory - 2 more steps to go. I was gripped by the big cheese and
told not to go any further as I would get cancer. He was dressed up like a
spaceman and asked me to the same. I waited until he has gone and went up
the further 2 steps. I suppose that he was doing his job.



If you buy stuff from aeriels and tv they sell these eye bolts and
recommend their use.

On 04/09/2019 15:53, GB wrote:
Elfin Safety gone bonkers

The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Arc flash protection. Here are some videos:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...training+video


--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk

Brian Gaff wrote

Well, if that were the case why don't all these folk tog up this way, and
they don't!

For the same reason you see lots of variability with everything.

Some are silly enough to dress up like that when
mowing the lawn, others do it with bare feet.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
GB wrote:

he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.

What if some part of the service head disintegrated as he pulled the fuse
and made a short across the incomer, protected only by whatever fuse is
out in the street/substation?

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 04:35:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


For the same reason you see lots of variability with everything.

Some are silly enough to dress up like that when
mowing the lawn, others do it with bare feet.

Oh, ****! You HAD to **** also in this THIS thread, hadn't you, you abnormal
senile pest? WHY???

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 04/09/2019 16:41, Alan wrote:
On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:53:41 +0100, GB wrote:
The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.
Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Clearly not as much as you think.
He was taking adequate precautions against the fuse carrier/fuse/cut-out
falling apart when he pulled it.

I can see the need to do this with some old installations but is it
necessary with current designs of main fuses?

On 06/09/2019 10:17, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 04/09/2019 16:41, Alan wrote:
On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:53:41 +0100, GB wrote:
The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.
Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Clearly not as much as you think.
He was taking adequate precautions against the fuse carrier/fuse/cut-out
falling apart when he pulled it.

I can see the need to do this with some old installations but is it
necessary with current designs of main fuses?

If you have the gear to hand, why would you *not* do it? It must be all
of 20 seconds extra to put on the gloves and visor.

The main issue here is the unknown unknowns... These guys are quite
often trained to do the specific job safely in *any* situation. So its
far simpler to have a one size fits all procedure, that does not require
detailed knowledge of the installation, or the upstream supply, and does
not need any great experience or knowledge of electrical installations
and how they might be molested out in the wild.

So yes you might be able to look at the style of cutout and be fairly
certain that its unlikely to short when you pull the fuse, and you can
see there is no load at the CU, hence you assume "low risk". However are
you *sure* that someone has not hacked about with the cutout - say to
try and illicitly power their grow room at some point in the past? Or
that someone has not wired an additional submain feed to another CU at
the incoming terminals of the main CU, so that turning it off, still
leaves attached loads elsewhere?




--
Cheers,

John.

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Mike Clarke wrote:

I can see the need to do this with some old installations but is it
necessary with current designs of main fuses?

Maybe not, but it'll be easier for their "stock" method statement to say
always wear PPE when pulling the main fuse

On 06/09/2019 10:17, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 04/09/2019 16:41, Alan wrote:
On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:53:41 +0100, GB wrote:
The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.
Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Clearly not as much as you think.
He was taking adequate precautions against the fuse carrier/fuse/cut-out
falling apart when he pulled it.

I can see the need to do this with some old installations but is it
necessary with current designs of main fuses?


You are discounting human factors.
The probability of a modern cutout failing are low.
However the probability of a person mistaking a fragile old cutout for a
new, probably inherently safe one are much higher.

The donning of the correct kit also creates the impression of a
professional outfit, rather than a bunch of cowboys, and also sends a
subconscious message: "don't f*** with the meter wiring".

On 06/09/2019 13:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/09/2019 10:17, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 04/09/2019 16:41, Alan wrote:
On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:53:41 +0100, GB wrote:
The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.
Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Clearly not as much as you think.
He was taking adequate precautions against the fuse carrier/fuse/cut-out
falling apart when he pulled it.

I can see the need to do this with some old installations but is it
necessary with current designs of main fuses?

If you have the gear to hand, why would you *not* do it? It must be all
of 20 seconds extra to put on the gloves and visor.

Yes, if you have the PPE gear available it makes sense to use it but I
was wondering if lack of suitable PPE would be a reason to not pull the
main fuse from a modern cutout.

In other words which would be the greater risk on a modern domestic
installation. Working inside a consumer unit with its main switch turned
off but still live at the input side or pulling the main fuse after
switching off the consumer unit main switch.

On 07/09/2019 10:34, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 06/09/2019 13:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/09/2019 10:17, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 04/09/2019 16:41, Alan wrote:
On Wed, 04 Sep 2019 15:53:41 +0100, GB wrote:
The Eon guy came to fit the samrt metter. He put on his work gloves.
Fair enough. He put on his polycarbonate glasses. Still fair enough.

Then, he donned thick elbow length rubber gauntlets, plus a full face
polycarbonate shield. THEN, he removed the main fuse.
Given that he had turned off the consumer unit, this struck me as
excessively cautious, but what do I know?

Clearly not as much as you think.
He was taking adequate precautions against the fuse
carrier/fuse/cut-out
falling apart when he pulled it.

I can see the need to do this with some old installations but is it
necessary with current designs of main fuses?

If you have the gear to hand, why would you *not* do it? It must be
all of 20 seconds extra to put on the gloves and visor.

Yes, if you have the PPE gear available it makes sense to use it but I
was wondering if lack of suitable PPE would be a reason to not pull the
main fuse from a modern cutout.

On your own installation its an easier call, since you probably know the
history of the install, and what CUs there are, and how they are powered
etc. With a bit of experience you will also learn to recognise the
various types of main cutout in use, and which ones are inadvisable to
play with.

e.g. one should be wary of old metal clad things like :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...CladCutout.jpg

Modern stuff like these are typically pretty low risk:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:TN-S1.jpg
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:TN-S2.jpg
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:TTModern.jpg

These are also ok, but do leave a fairly large area of exposed lave
metalwork after removal:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...utandMeter.jpg



If in any doubt about whether you have removed all the load, then
sticking a clamp meter round one of the meter tails will soon tell you.

In other words which would be the greater risk on a modern domestic
installation. Working inside a consumer unit with its main switch turned
off but still live at the input side or pulling the main fuse after
switching off the consumer unit main switch.

Depends on what you mean by working inside. If you were replacing the CU
or doing other significant work, then yup isolate it first. If just
doing work on one circuit - say disconnecting it for testing or
isolation, then you can usually safely work with the power on as far as
the incomer of the main switch.



--
Cheers,

John.

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On Saturday, 7 September 2019 13:34:24 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2019 10:34, Mike Clarke wrote:

Yes, if you have the PPE gear available it makes sense to use it but I
was wondering if lack of suitable PPE would be a reason to not pull the
main fuse from a modern cutout.

On your own installation its an easier call, since you probably know the
history of the install, and what CUs there are, and how they are powered
etc. With a bit of experience you will also learn to recognise the
various types of main cutout in use, and which ones are inadvisable to
play with.

e.g. one should be wary of old metal clad things like :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...CladCutout.jpg

What can easily catch people out on old metal clads (pre-war Isco era) is that the ceramics used in them can have close to zero tensile strength. Just pulling a not-tight fuseholder can be enough to cause major disintegration.. This can be partially mitigated by squeezing the ceramic when pulling it.


NT