Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
Following intensive vaccination efforts, measles cases plunged across the world. Now clusters of new infections €” some linked, some not €” have confounded health officials.
By Donald G. McNeil Jr., April 3, 2019, NY Times

The measles outbreak that led to a state of emergency in New Yorks Rockland County began far away: in an annual Hasidic pilgrimage from Israel to Ukraine.

It is emblematic of a series of fierce, sometimes connected measles outbreaks €” in places as diverse as Indonesia, the Philippines, Madagascar and Venezuela €” that have shaken global health officials, revealing persistent shortcomings in the worlds vaccination efforts and threatening to tarnish what had been a signature public health achievement.

In 2001, the United Nations declared war on measles. With help from the federal government, the American Red Cross and big donors like Ted Turner and Bill and Melinda Gates, the U.N. began the Measles and Rubella Initiative and created Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance.

Together, they poured billions of dollars into buying vaccines and helping countries deliver it safely, which meant building refrigerated storage facilities, supplying clean needles, training vaccinators and countering other logistical obstacles common in poor countries.

Public health officials worldwide tracked the results, monitoring cases and tracking outbreaks. The news was good: Measles declined worldwide by nearly 80 percent between 2000 and 2016, with fatalities €” mostly among children younger than age 5 €” plummeting to about 90,000 per year from about 550,000.

But two years ago, measles cases unexpectedly popped upward again, rising 30 percent in a single year. The virus re-invaded countries where it had been vanquished.

The biggest factor in that increase, World Health Organization officials said, was poverty: Medical systems in many countries remain too weak to vaccinate enough children year after year to wall out the virus.

To stop imported cases from spreading, about 95 percent of a countrys citizens must be immune, either through vaccination or because they had measles as children. As babies are born, new pools of potential victims are created €” unless vaccination is constant.

Anti-vaccine activists, false rumors and serious missteps by some vaccine companies have all contributed to the global rebound. Jet travel has fueled the spread, as it has with viruses like MERS and Zika.

So have €œdiaspora networks,€� said Dr. Heidi J. Larson, director of the Vaccine Confidence Project at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine €” people connected by culture around the world who share beliefs, and sometimes pathogens.

Israels measles outbreak began in March 2018, apparently in a small Orthodox community in Tzfat, in the north, said Dr. Patrick M. OConnor, leader of the rapid disease control team at the W.H.O.s European office, which oversees Israel.

Resistance to vaccines was not the reason. Orthodox rabbis €œhave no issue with vaccination €” its seen as a lifesaving good,€� Dr. OConnor said. And Israels chief health officer, Yaakov Litzman, is an Orthodox rabbi who grew up in Brooklyn; his ministry provides vaccines free.

€œBut there is a mismatch between Israels health system and the population its supposed to serve,€� Dr. OConnor added.

The clinics offering vaccines were often not open on convenient days or couldnt accommodate big groups. Orthodox families may include up to a dozen children, and ensuring that all have had two measles shots on schedule can be difficult.

(To comply with Israels health ministry schedule, a child needs nine doctors appointments before age 6 to be fully vaccinated against 14 diseases. Children get measles shots at ages 1 and 6.)

Vaccination rates among the Orthodox in Israel were in the 80 percent range €” better than in many other countries, but not enough to stop measles. Another contributing factor: Even if they are sick, children are often brought to Orthodox weddings or other gatherings.

At first, the virus moved slowly through Orthodox communities in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Then in September, Dr. OConnor said, a major outbreak in Ukraine supercharged Israels modest one €” and probably led, indirectly, to outbreaks in Britain and in the United States.

The Ukraine connection

Ukraine is suffering through a measles outbreak that began in 2017. The country has had almost 70,000 cases €” more than any other country in recent years.

The infections have not been confined to a particular ethnic group. The country is at war with pro-Russian separatists on its eastern border, distrust in government is high, and rumors about vaccines are rife €” one of which began when a 17-year-old died of unrelated causes after getting a shot.

The Ukrainian government also rejected cheaper Indian and Korean vaccines in favor of European ones, but they cost more than the government could afford, Dr. Larson said.

But the real problem appears to have begun at Rosh Hashana.

Each year on the holiday, tens of thousands of Orthodox men travel to Uman, a Ukrainian city where the grave of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, founder of one branch of Hasidism, has become a popular pilgrimage site. (The festivities have been called the €œHasidic Burning Man.€�)

Last year, Rosh Hashana fell in early September. Later that month, measles cases exploded in Israel, rising to a peak of 949 in October. The cause? Numerous pilgrims came back from Ukraine with the virus, experts believe.

New Yorks outbreak began in October; the first patient was a child in the Bensonhurst section of Brooklyn who had visited Israel. At the same time, a measles outbreak began among Orthodox Jews in London.

The Israeli government responded rapidly, recruiting Orthodox Jews onto vaccine advisory groups and sending mobile clinics into their neighborhoods.

€œCoverage improved immensely, and the numbers are getting smaller,€� Dr. OConnor said.

Orthodox Jews in Britain and the United States also have big families and may struggle to keep everyone vaccinated. But vaccine skepticism is more common in the United States than in Israel and much more common in Britain.

The false rumor that measles vaccines cause autism was started in 1998 by Andrew Wakefield, a British doctor whose medical license was later revoked.

Many outbreaks, many triggers

Several other measles outbreaks are crisscrossing the globe. They follow similar patterns but have unique triggers and pose individual public health challenges.

Many countries are having outbreaks bigger than Israels. Madagascar has seen 66,000 cases of measles, with more than 900 dead. India has had 63,000 cases; Pakistan, 31,000; Yemen, 12,000; Brazil, 10,000; and Venezuela, 5,700.

Most of these countries have chronically low vaccination rates. But some are worsened by unique constellations of challenges.

Yemen is in the middle of a civil war. Venezuelas medical system has broken down; part of Brazils outbreak is in refugees from Venezuela.

Madagascar is one of the worlds poorest countries. It is an island with a high birthrate, and there had been no measles outbreak since 2003, so it had a huge pool of susceptible children and teenagers. And many of those children are dangerously malnourished.

In wealthy countries, measles kills about one in every 1,000 victims. But when children are malnourished, and when they cannot get hospital care for complications like pneumonia or encephalitis, measles can kill one in 10 children, sometimes even more in refugee camps, said Dr. Katrina Kretsinger, a W.H.O. medical officer.

Since 2000, when the United States eliminated domestic measles, all cases here have come from overseas. In the early 2000s, most arrived from Japan, where the government had made measles shots voluntary after a locally made vaccine was blamed for cases of meningitis.

In 2011, American tourists brought back 13 cases from a major outbreak in France. An outbreak in North Carolina in 2013 originated in India.
Most recently, a long-lasting measles epidemic in the Philippines caused an outbreak in Amish communities in Ohio in 2014, started by a returning missionary, and the infamous 2015 €œDisneyland outbreak,€� which led California to tighten its vaccine laws.

The Philippines has long had difficulty vaccinating its people, said Katherine OBrien, the W.H.O.s director of immunization.

The country has a population of 100 million spread out over more than 2,000 islands. Its health care system is decentralized, inept in places and bad at tracking childrens medical records. Some islands have armed conflicts.

The risks of an outbreak were compounded in 2017, when the rollout of the worlds first promising dengue vaccine backfired spectacularly.

The vaccine, Dengvaxia, was withdrawn after evidence emerged that it had the same sinister drawback as the dengue virus itself: The vaccine appeared to make a second infection more deadly.

Angry Filipinos rebelled against all vaccines; vaccination rates fell to 60 percent, the countrys health ministry said.
Something similar happened there in the early 1990s, said Dr. Larson of the Vaccine Confidence Project.

A conservative Catholic group heard that a new injectable contraceptive would include a protein used in tetanus vaccine. Misunderstanding the science, the group spread the alarm that tetanus vaccine was secretly a birth-control method.

The mayor of Manila banned the vaccine, and the rumor spread through Catholic anti-abortion networks as far as East Africa and South America. Ultimately, the W.H.O. had to ask the Vatican to intervene and say the vaccine was safe.

The next country in line for an epidemic that could spread to the United States, Dr. Larson predicted, is Poland.

It was the lowest-ranked European Union country on her organizations recent €œvaccine confidence survey.€� Respondents are asked, for example, whether they feel vaccines are safe, effective and compatible with their religious beliefs.

Poland has a vocal anti-vaccine movement called €œStop Nop,€� and its immunization rates have dropped steadily since 2010. And, Dr. Larson noted, Poland has many Ukrainian refugees, any one of whom could import the virus.

Poles in Scotland are already echoing attitudes in their homeland, she said..

€œI would not be surprised if the negative sentiment and consequent vaccine refusal spread to the Polish communities in the U.S.€�

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/h...ne-israel.html

I thought is was because there are enough people not vaccinated for a
reservoir to exist to re infect.
That is why there is a critical number or percentage and why the bad press
of the multiple vaccination system harmed the program.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"David P" wrote in message
...
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
Following intensive vaccination efforts, measles cases plunged across the
world. Now clusters of new infections - some linked, some not - have
confounded health officials.
By Donald G. McNeil Jr., April 3, 2019, NY Times

The measles outbreak that led to a state of emergency in New York's Rockland
County began far away: in an annual Hasidic pilgrimage from Israel to
Ukraine.

It is emblematic of a series of fierce, sometimes connected measles
outbreaks - in places as diverse as Indonesia, the Philippines, Madagascar
and Venezuela - that have shaken global health officials, revealing
persistent shortcomings in the world's vaccination efforts and threatening
to tarnish what had been a signature public health achievement.

In 2001, the United Nations declared war on measles. With help from the
federal government, the American Red Cross and big donors like Ted Turner
and Bill and Melinda Gates, the U.N. began the Measles and Rubella
Initiative and created Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance.

Together, they poured billions of dollars into buying vaccines and helping
countries deliver it safely, which meant building refrigerated storage
facilities, supplying clean needles, training vaccinators and countering
other logistical obstacles common in poor countries.

Public health officials worldwide tracked the results, monitoring cases and
tracking outbreaks. The news was good: Measles declined worldwide by nearly
80 percent between 2000 and 2016, with fatalities - mostly among children
younger than age 5 - plummeting to about 90,000 per year from about 550,000.

But two years ago, measles cases unexpectedly popped upward again, rising 30
percent in a single year. The virus re-invaded countries where it had been
vanquished.

The biggest factor in that increase, World Health Organization officials
said, was poverty: Medical systems in many countries remain too weak to
vaccinate enough children year after year to wall out the virus.

To stop imported cases from spreading, about 95 percent of a country's
citizens must be immune, either through vaccination or because they had
measles as children. As babies are born, new pools of potential victims are
created - unless vaccination is constant.

Anti-vaccine activists, false rumors and serious missteps by some vaccine
companies have all contributed to the global rebound. Jet travel has fueled
the spread, as it has with viruses like MERS and Zika.

So have "diaspora networks," said Dr. Heidi J. Larson, director of the
Vaccine Confidence Project at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical
Medicine - people connected by culture around the world who share beliefs,
and sometimes pathogens.

Israel's measles outbreak began in March 2018, apparently in a small
Orthodox community in Tzfat, in the north, said Dr. Patrick M. O'Connor,
leader of the rapid disease control team at the W.H.O.'s European office,
which oversees Israel.

Resistance to vaccines was not the reason. Orthodox rabbis "have no issue
with vaccination - it's seen as a lifesaving good," Dr. O'Connor said. And
Israel's chief health officer, Yaakov Litzman, is an Orthodox rabbi who grew
up in Brooklyn; his ministry provides vaccines free.

"But there is a mismatch between Israel's health system and the population
it's supposed to serve," Dr. O'Connor added.

The clinics offering vaccines were often not open on convenient days or
couldn't accommodate big groups. Orthodox families may include up to a dozen
children, and ensuring that all have had two measles shots on schedule can
be difficult.

(To comply with Israel's health ministry schedule, a child needs nine doctor's
appointments before age 6 to be fully vaccinated against 14 diseases.
Children get measles shots at ages 1 and 6.)

Vaccination rates among the Orthodox in Israel were in the 80 percent
range - better than in many other countries, but not enough to stop measles.
Another contributing factor: Even if they are sick, children are often
brought to Orthodox weddings or other gatherings.

At first, the virus moved slowly through Orthodox communities in Jerusalem
and Tel Aviv. Then in September, Dr. O'Connor said, a major outbreak in
Ukraine supercharged Israel's modest one - and probably led, indirectly, to
outbreaks in Britain and in the United States.

The Ukraine connection

Ukraine is suffering through a measles outbreak that began in 2017. The
country has had almost 70,000 cases - more than any other country in recent
years.

The infections have not been confined to a particular ethnic group. The
country is at war with pro-Russian separatists on its eastern border,
distrust in government is high, and rumors about vaccines are rife - one of
which began when a 17-year-old died of unrelated causes after getting a
shot.

The Ukrainian government also rejected cheaper Indian and Korean vaccines in
favor of European ones, but they cost more than the government could afford,
Dr. Larson said.

But the real problem appears to have begun at Rosh Hashana.

Each year on the holiday, tens of thousands of Orthodox men travel to Uman,
a Ukrainian city where the grave of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, founder of one
branch of Hasidism, has become a popular pilgrimage site. (The festivities
have been called the "Hasidic Burning Man.")

Last year, Rosh Hashana fell in early September. Later that month, measles
cases exploded in Israel, rising to a peak of 949 in October. The cause?
Numerous pilgrims came back from Ukraine with the virus, experts believe.

New York's outbreak began in October; the first patient was a child in the
Bensonhurst section of Brooklyn who had visited Israel. At the same time, a
measles outbreak began among Orthodox Jews in London.

The Israeli government responded rapidly, recruiting Orthodox Jews onto
vaccine advisory groups and sending mobile clinics into their neighborhoods.

"Coverage improved immensely, and the numbers are getting smaller," Dr. O'Connor
said.

Orthodox Jews in Britain and the United States also have big families and
may struggle to keep everyone vaccinated. But vaccine skepticism is more
common in the United States than in Israel and much more common in Britain.

The false rumor that measles vaccines cause autism was started in 1998 by
Andrew Wakefield, a British doctor whose medical license was later revoked.

Many outbreaks, many triggers

Several other measles outbreaks are crisscrossing the globe. They follow
similar patterns but have unique triggers and pose individual public health
challenges.

Many countries are having outbreaks bigger than Israel's. Madagascar has
seen 66,000 cases of measles, with more than 900 dead. India has had 63,000
cases; Pakistan, 31,000; Yemen, 12,000; Brazil, 10,000; and Venezuela,
5,700.

Most of these countries have chronically low vaccination rates. But some are
worsened by unique constellations of challenges.

Yemen is in the middle of a civil war. Venezuela's medical system has broken
down; part of Brazil's outbreak is in refugees from Venezuela.

Madagascar is one of the world's poorest countries. It is an island with a
high birthrate, and there had been no measles outbreak since 2003, so it had
a huge pool of susceptible children and teenagers. And many of those
children are dangerously malnourished.

In wealthy countries, measles kills about one in every 1,000 victims. But
when children are malnourished, and when they cannot get hospital care for
complications like pneumonia or encephalitis, measles can kill one in 10
children, sometimes even more in refugee camps, said Dr. Katrina Kretsinger,
a W.H.O. medical officer.

Since 2000, when the United States eliminated domestic measles, all cases
here have come from overseas. In the early 2000s, most arrived from Japan,
where the government had made measles shots voluntary after a locally made
vaccine was blamed for cases of meningitis.

In 2011, American tourists brought back 13 cases from a major outbreak in
France. An outbreak in North Carolina in 2013 originated in India.
Most recently, a long-lasting measles epidemic in the Philippines caused an
outbreak in Amish communities in Ohio in 2014, started by a returning
missionary, and the infamous 2015 "Disneyland outbreak," which led
California to tighten its vaccine laws.

The Philippines has long had difficulty vaccinating its people, said
Katherine O'Brien, the W.H.O.'s director of immunization.

The country has a population of 100 million spread out over more than 2,000
islands. Its health care system is decentralized, inept in places and bad at
tracking children's medical records. Some islands have armed conflicts.

The risks of an outbreak were compounded in 2017, when the rollout of the
world's first promising dengue vaccine backfired spectacularly.

The vaccine, Dengvaxia, was withdrawn after evidence emerged that it had the
same sinister drawback as the dengue virus itself: The vaccine appeared to
make a second infection more deadly.

Angry Filipinos rebelled against all vaccines; vaccination rates fell to 60
percent, the country's health ministry said.
Something similar happened there in the early 1990s, said Dr. Larson of the
Vaccine Confidence Project.

A conservative Catholic group heard that a new injectable contraceptive
would include a protein used in tetanus vaccine. Misunderstanding the
science, the group spread the alarm that tetanus vaccine was secretly a
birth-control method.

The mayor of Manila banned the vaccine, and the rumor spread through
Catholic anti-abortion networks as far as East Africa and South America.
Ultimately, the W.H.O. had to ask the Vatican to intervene and say the
vaccine was safe.

The next country in line for an epidemic that could spread to the United
States, Dr. Larson predicted, is Poland.

It was the lowest-ranked European Union country on her organization's recent
"vaccine confidence survey." Respondents are asked, for example, whether
they feel vaccines are safe, effective and compatible with their religious
beliefs.

Poland has a vocal anti-vaccine movement called "Stop Nop," and its
immunization rates have dropped steadily since 2010. And, Dr. Larson noted,
Poland has many Ukrainian refugees, any one of whom could import the virus.

Poles in Scotland are already echoing attitudes in their homeland, she said.

"I would not be surprised if the negative sentiment and consequent vaccine
refusal spread to the Polish communities in the U.S."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/h...ne-israel.html

Brian Gaff wrote:
I thought is was because there are enough people not vaccinated for a
reservoir to exist to re infect.
That is why there is a critical number or percentage and why the bad press
of the multiple vaccination system harmed the program.
Brian

What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).





This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"David P" wrote:
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
Following intensive vaccination efforts, measles cases plunged across the
world. Now clusters of new infections - some linked, some not - have
confounded health officials.
By Donald G. McNeil Jr., April 3, 2019, NY Times
[...]

On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

What worries our politicians is making sure they stay on top and its not
them.What else is globalisation all about?

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

David P wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

I thought is was because there are enough people
not vaccinated for a reservoir to exist to re infect.

That is why there is a critical number or percentage
and why the bad press of the multiple vaccination
system harmed the program.

What happens to any other species when
their numbers keep rising, without controls?

Human populations work differently. There is a reason why
we no longer see many with more than a couple of kids in
the modern first world. In fact NOT ONE modern first world
country is even self replacing now if you take out immigration.

What will the world be like as our population increases to 8 billion,
then 9 billion, then 10 then 11 billion, as the United Nations projects?

Basically the same as it is now, with the
bigger citys just being bigger in total area.

We need to discuss decisions based on self
vs. decisions based on the common good.

Nope, the birth rate is dropping EVERYWHERE now
except where its already right down in the noise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...#1970_and_2014

Its fixing itself fine.

(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

"David P" wrote:
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
Following intensive vaccination efforts, measles cases plunged across the
world. Now clusters of new infections - some linked, some not - have
confounded health officials.
By Donald G. McNeil Jr., April 3, 2019, NY Times
[...]

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesnt happen with humans.

What worries our politicians is making sure they stay on top and its not
them.

Nope, only the most stupid havent noticed that
not one modern first world country is even self
replacing now if you take out immigration.

What else is globalisation all about?

Its about taking advantage of where things have a natural
advantage like labor costs where its cheapest and getting
the resources needed where they are most abundant.

On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls?Â*Â* What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects?Â*Â* We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesnt happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans


What worries our politicians is making sure they stay on top and its
not them.

Nope, only the most stupid havent noticed that
not one modern first world country is even self
replacing now if you take out immigration.

Unfortunately they arte encouyraging in immigration of the most fertile


What else is globalisation all about?

Its about taking advantage of where things have a natural
advantage like labor costs where its cheapest and getting
the resources needed where they are most abundant.

I.e. breeding cheap labor and having a surplus of it.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesnt happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that
they fade away when there is massive local climate change
that prevents them from growing enough food etc or the
animals they eat die out etc.

What worries our politicians is making sure they stay on top and its not
them.

Nope, only the most stupid havent noticed that
not one modern first world country is even self
replacing now if you take out immigration.

Unfortunately they arte encouyraging in immigration of the most fertile

That isnt what happens with migration within the EU or the UK either.

What else is globalisation all about?

Its about taking advantage of where things have a natural
advantage like labor costs where its cheapest and getting
the resources needed where they are most abundant.

I.e. breeding cheap labor and having a surplus of it.

Globalisation is about a hell of a lot more than just cheap labor.
Its also about growing stuff where it grows best and moving
resources from where it happens to be to where it is consumed.

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 15:26:49 +1000, 2987pl, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


well megadeath of course.

Doesn¢t happen with humans.

What are you now quarreling about, you abnormal senile Ozzie arsehole?

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, 2987pl, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the senile asshole's latest troll****

....and much better air in here again!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 15:22:47 +1000,cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another load of the abnormal senile asshole's latest troll****
unread

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On 06/04/2019 07:29, David P wrote:
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
Following intensive vaccination efforts, measles cases plunged across the world. Now clusters of new infections €” some linked, some not €” have confounded health officials.
By Donald G. McNeil Jr., April 3, 2019, NY Times

The measles outbreak that led to a state of emergency in New Yorks Rockland County began far away: in an annual Hasidic pilgrimage from Israel to Ukraine.

It is emblematic of a series of fierce, sometimes connected measles outbreaks €” in places as diverse as Indonesia, the Philippines, Madagascar and Venezuela €” that have shaken global health officials, revealing persistent shortcomings in the worlds vaccination efforts and threatening to tarnish what had been a signature public health achievement.

In 2001, the United Nations declared war on measles. With help from the federal government, the American Red Cross and big donors like Ted Turner and Bill and Melinda Gates, the U.N. began the Measles and Rubella Initiative and created Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance.

Together, they poured billions of dollars into buying vaccines and helping countries deliver it safely, which meant building refrigerated storage facilities, supplying clean needles, training vaccinators and countering other logistical obstacles common in poor countries.

Public health officials worldwide tracked the results, monitoring cases and tracking outbreaks. The news was good: Measles declined worldwide by nearly 80 percent between 2000 and 2016, with fatalities €” mostly among children younger than age 5 €” plummeting to about 90,000 per year from about 550,000.

But two years ago, measles cases unexpectedly popped upward again, rising 30 percent in a single year. The virus re-invaded countries where it had been vanquished.

The biggest factor in that increase, World Health Organization officials said, was poverty: Medical systems in many countries remain too weak to vaccinate enough children year after year to wall out the virus.

To stop imported cases from spreading, about 95 percent of a countrys citizens must be immune, either through vaccination or because they had measles as children. As babies are born, new pools of potential victims are created €” unless vaccination is constant.

Anti-vaccine activists, false rumors and serious missteps by some vaccine companies have all contributed to the global rebound. Jet travel has fueled the spread, as it has with viruses like MERS and Zika.

So have €œdiaspora networks,€� said Dr. Heidi J. Larson, director of the Vaccine Confidence Project at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine €” people connected by culture around the world who share beliefs, and sometimes pathogens.

Israels measles outbreak began in March 2018, apparently in a small Orthodox community in Tzfat, in the north, said Dr. Patrick M. OConnor, leader of the rapid disease control team at the W.H.O.s European office, which oversees Israel.

Resistance to vaccines was not the reason. Orthodox rabbis €œhave no issue with vaccination €” its seen as a lifesaving good,€� Dr. OConnor said. And Israels chief health officer, Yaakov Litzman, is an Orthodox rabbi who grew up in Brooklyn; his ministry provides vaccines free.

€œBut there is a mismatch between Israels health system and the population its supposed to serve,€� Dr. OConnor added.

The clinics offering vaccines were often not open on convenient days or couldnt accommodate big groups. Orthodox families may include up to a dozen children, and ensuring that all have had two measles shots on schedule can be difficult.

(To comply with Israels health ministry schedule, a child needs nine doctors appointments before age 6 to be fully vaccinated against 14 diseases. Children get measles shots at ages 1 and 6.)

Vaccination rates among the Orthodox in Israel were in the 80 percent range €” better than in many other countries, but not enough to stop measles. Another contributing factor: Even if they are sick, children are often brought to Orthodox weddings or other gatherings.

At first, the virus moved slowly through Orthodox communities in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Then in September, Dr. OConnor said, a major outbreak in Ukraine supercharged Israels modest one €” and probably led, indirectly, to outbreaks in Britain and in the United States.

The Ukraine connection

Ukraine is suffering through a measles outbreak that began in 2017. The country has had almost 70,000 cases €” more than any other country in recent years.

The infections have not been confined to a particular ethnic group. The country is at war with pro-Russian separatists on its eastern border, distrust in government is high, and rumors about vaccines are rife €” one of which began when a 17-year-old died of unrelated causes after getting a shot.

The Ukrainian government also rejected cheaper Indian and Korean vaccines in favor of European ones, but they cost more than the government could afford, Dr. Larson said.

But the real problem appears to have begun at Rosh Hashana.

Each year on the holiday, tens of thousands of Orthodox men travel to Uman, a Ukrainian city where the grave of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, founder of one branch of Hasidism, has become a popular pilgrimage site. (The festivities have been called the €œHasidic Burning Man.€�)

Last year, Rosh Hashana fell in early September. Later that month, measles cases exploded in Israel, rising to a peak of 949 in October. The cause? Numerous pilgrims came back from Ukraine with the virus, experts believe.

New Yorks outbreak began in October; the first patient was a child in the Bensonhurst section of Brooklyn who had visited Israel. At the same time, a measles outbreak began among Orthodox Jews in London.

The Israeli government responded rapidly, recruiting Orthodox Jews onto vaccine advisory groups and sending mobile clinics into their neighborhoods.

€œCoverage improved immensely, and the numbers are getting smaller,€� Dr. OConnor said.

Orthodox Jews in Britain and the United States also have big families and may struggle to keep everyone vaccinated. But vaccine skepticism is more common in the United States than in Israel and much more common in Britain.

The false rumor that measles vaccines cause autism was started in 1998 by Andrew Wakefield, a British doctor whose medical license was later revoked.

Many outbreaks, many triggers

Several other measles outbreaks are crisscrossing the globe. They follow similar patterns but have unique triggers and pose individual public health challenges.

Many countries are having outbreaks bigger than Israels. Madagascar has seen 66,000 cases of measles, with more than 900 dead. India has had 63,000 cases; Pakistan, 31,000; Yemen, 12,000; Brazil, 10,000; and Venezuela, 5,700.

Most of these countries have chronically low vaccination rates. But some are worsened by unique constellations of challenges.

Yemen is in the middle of a civil war. Venezuelas medical system has broken down; part of Brazils outbreak is in refugees from Venezuela.

Madagascar is one of the worlds poorest countries. It is an island with a high birthrate, and there had been no measles outbreak since 2003, so it had a huge pool of susceptible children and teenagers. And many of those children are dangerously malnourished.

In wealthy countries, measles kills about one in every 1,000 victims. But when children are malnourished, and when they cannot get hospital care for complications like pneumonia or encephalitis, measles can kill one in 10 children, sometimes even more in refugee camps, said Dr. Katrina Kretsinger, a W.H.O. medical officer.

Since 2000, when the United States eliminated domestic measles, all cases here have come from overseas. In the early 2000s, most arrived from Japan, where the government had made measles shots voluntary after a locally made vaccine was blamed for cases of meningitis.

In 2011, American tourists brought back 13 cases from a major outbreak in France. An outbreak in North Carolina in 2013 originated in India.
Most recently, a long-lasting measles epidemic in the Philippines caused an outbreak in Amish communities in Ohio in 2014, started by a returning missionary, and the infamous 2015 €œDisneyland outbreak,€� which led California to tighten its vaccine laws.

The Philippines has long had difficulty vaccinating its people, said Katherine OBrien, the W.H.O.s director of immunization.

The country has a population of 100 million spread out over more than 2,000 islands. Its health care system is decentralized, inept in places and bad at tracking childrens medical records. Some islands have armed conflicts.

The risks of an outbreak were compounded in 2017, when the rollout of the worlds first promising dengue vaccine backfired spectacularly.

The vaccine, Dengvaxia, was withdrawn after evidence emerged that it had the same sinister drawback as the dengue virus itself: The vaccine appeared to make a second infection more deadly.

Angry Filipinos rebelled against all vaccines; vaccination rates fell to 60 percent, the countrys health ministry said.
Something similar happened there in the early 1990s, said Dr. Larson of the Vaccine Confidence Project.

A conservative Catholic group heard that a new injectable contraceptive would include a protein used in tetanus vaccine. Misunderstanding the science, the group spread the alarm that tetanus vaccine was secretly a birth-control method.

The mayor of Manila banned the vaccine, and the rumor spread through Catholic anti-abortion networks as far as East Africa and South America. Ultimately, the W.H.O. had to ask the Vatican to intervene and say the vaccine was safe.

The next country in line for an epidemic that could spread to the United States, Dr. Larson predicted, is Poland.

It was the lowest-ranked European Union country on her organizations recent €œvaccine confidence survey.€� Respondents are asked, for example, whether they feel vaccines are safe, effective and compatible with their religious beliefs.

Poland has a vocal anti-vaccine movement called €œStop Nop,€� and its immunization rates have dropped steadily since 2010. And, Dr. Larson noted, Poland has many Ukrainian refugees, any one of whom could import the virus.

Poles in Scotland are already echoing attitudes in their homeland, she said.

€œI would not be surprised if the negative sentiment and consequent vaccine refusal spread to the Polish communities in the U.S.€�

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/h...ne-israel.html

I blame the fuzzy wuzzies ....

--
Report a bad lying Freemason to Mr Baker of UGLE Audi Vide Tace

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, "2987pl" wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesn't happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that
they fade away when there is massive local climate change
that prevents them from growing enough food etc or the
animals they eat die out etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

That never produced megadeath and wasn't due
to population increasing with not controls either.

or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics ,

Neither did that.

given that epidemics are made worse by poor and
cramped living conditions, poor hygiene, poor diet etc.

That's bull**** with the flu epidemic in the 1910s.

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 06/04/2019 07:29, David P wrote:
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
Following intensive vaccination efforts, measles cases plunged across the
world. Now clusters of new infections €” some linked, some not €” have
confounded health officials.
By Donald G. McNeil Jr., April 3, 2019, NY Times

The measles outbreak that led to a state of emergency in New Yorks
Rockland County began far away: in an annual Hasidic pilgrimage from
Israel to Ukraine.

It is emblematic of a series of fierce, sometimes connected measles
outbreaks €” in places as diverse as Indonesia, the Philippines,
Madagascar and Venezuela €” that have shaken global health officials,
revealing persistent shortcomings in the worlds vaccination efforts and
threatening to tarnish what had been a signature public health
achievement.

In 2001, the United Nations declared war on measles. With help from the
federal government, the American Red Cross and big donors like Ted Turner
and Bill and Melinda Gates, the U.N. began the Measles and Rubella
Initiative and created Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance.

Together, they poured billions of dollars into buying vaccines and
helping countries deliver it safely, which meant building refrigerated
storage facilities, supplying clean needles, training vaccinators and
countering other logistical obstacles common in poor countries.

Public health officials worldwide tracked the results, monitoring cases
and tracking outbreaks. The news was good: Measles declined worldwide by
nearly 80 percent between 2000 and 2016, with fatalities €” mostly among
children younger than age 5 €” plummeting to about 90,000 per year from
about 550,000.

But two years ago, measles cases unexpectedly popped upward again, rising
30 percent in a single year. The virus re-invaded countries where it had
been vanquished.

The biggest factor in that increase, World Health Organization officials
said, was poverty: Medical systems in many countries remain too weak to
vaccinate enough children year after year to wall out the virus.

To stop imported cases from spreading, about 95 percent of a countrys
citizens must be immune, either through vaccination or because they had
measles as children. As babies are born, new pools of potential victims
are created €” unless vaccination is constant.

Anti-vaccine activists, false rumors and serious missteps by some vaccine
companies have all contributed to the global rebound. Jet travel has
fueled the spread, as it has with viruses like MERS and Zika.

So have €œdiaspora networks,€� said Dr. Heidi J. Larson, director of the
Vaccine Confidence Project at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical
Medicine €” people connected by culture around the world who share
beliefs, and sometimes pathogens.

Israels measles outbreak began in March 2018, apparently in a small
Orthodox community in Tzfat, in the north, said Dr. Patrick M. OConnor,
leader of the rapid disease control team at the W.H.O.s European office,
which oversees Israel.

Resistance to vaccines was not the reason. Orthodox rabbis €œhave no issue
with vaccination €” its seen as a lifesaving good,€� Dr. OConnor said.
And Israels chief health officer, Yaakov Litzman, is an Orthodox rabbi
who grew up in Brooklyn; his ministry provides vaccines free.

€œBut there is a mismatch between Israels health system and the
population its supposed to serve,€� Dr. OConnor added.

The clinics offering vaccines were often not open on convenient days or
couldnt accommodate big groups. Orthodox families may include up to a
dozen children, and ensuring that all have had two measles shots on
schedule can be difficult.

(To comply with Israels health ministry schedule, a child needs nine
doctors appointments before age 6 to be fully vaccinated against 14
diseases. Children get measles shots at ages 1 and 6.)

Vaccination rates among the Orthodox in Israel were in the 80 percent
range €” better than in many other countries, but not enough to stop
measles. Another contributing factor: Even if they are sick, children are
often brought to Orthodox weddings or other gatherings.

At first, the virus moved slowly through Orthodox communities in
Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Then in September, Dr. OConnor said, a major
outbreak in Ukraine supercharged Israels modest one €” and probably led,
indirectly, to outbreaks in Britain and in the United States.

The Ukraine connection

Ukraine is suffering through a measles outbreak that began in 2017. The
country has had almost 70,000 cases €” more than any other country in
recent years.

The infections have not been confined to a particular ethnic group. The
country is at war with pro-Russian separatists on its eastern border,
distrust in government is high, and rumors about vaccines are rife €” one
of which began when a 17-year-old died of unrelated causes after getting
a shot.

The Ukrainian government also rejected cheaper Indian and Korean vaccines
in favor of European ones, but they cost more than the government could
afford, Dr. Larson said.

But the real problem appears to have begun at Rosh Hashana.

Each year on the holiday, tens of thousands of Orthodox men travel to
Uman, a Ukrainian city where the grave of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov,
founder of one branch of Hasidism, has become a popular pilgrimage site.
(The festivities have been called the €œHasidic Burning Man.€�)

Last year, Rosh Hashana fell in early September. Later that month,
measles cases exploded in Israel, rising to a peak of 949 in October. The
cause? Numerous pilgrims came back from Ukraine with the virus, experts
believe.

New Yorks outbreak began in October; the first patient was a child in
the Bensonhurst section of Brooklyn who had visited Israel. At the same
time, a measles outbreak began among Orthodox Jews in London.

The Israeli government responded rapidly, recruiting Orthodox Jews onto
vaccine advisory groups and sending mobile clinics into their
neighborhoods.

€œCoverage improved immensely, and the numbers are getting smaller,€� Dr. OConnor
said.

Orthodox Jews in Britain and the United States also have big families and
may struggle to keep everyone vaccinated. But vaccine skepticism is more
common in the United States than in Israel and much more common in
Britain.

The false rumor that measles vaccines cause autism was started in 1998 by
Andrew Wakefield, a British doctor whose medical license was later
revoked.

Many outbreaks, many triggers

Several other measles outbreaks are crisscrossing the globe. They follow
similar patterns but have unique triggers and pose individual public
health challenges.

Many countries are having outbreaks bigger than Israels. Madagascar has
seen 66,000 cases of measles, with more than 900 dead. India has had
63,000 cases; Pakistan, 31,000; Yemen, 12,000; Brazil, 10,000; and
Venezuela, 5,700.

Most of these countries have chronically low vaccination rates. But some
are worsened by unique constellations of challenges.

Yemen is in the middle of a civil war. Venezuelas medical system has
broken down; part of Brazils outbreak is in refugees from Venezuela.

Madagascar is one of the worlds poorest countries. It is an island with
a high birthrate, and there had been no measles outbreak since 2003, so
it had a huge pool of susceptible children and teenagers. And many of
those children are dangerously malnourished.

In wealthy countries, measles kills about one in every 1,000 victims. But
when children are malnourished, and when they cannot get hospital care
for complications like pneumonia or encephalitis, measles can kill one in
10 children, sometimes even more in refugee camps, said Dr. Katrina
Kretsinger, a W.H.O. medical officer.

Since 2000, when the United States eliminated domestic measles, all cases
here have come from overseas. In the early 2000s, most arrived from
Japan, where the government had made measles shots voluntary after a
locally made vaccine was blamed for cases of meningitis.

In 2011, American tourists brought back 13 cases from a major outbreak in
France. An outbreak in North Carolina in 2013 originated in India.
Most recently, a long-lasting measles epidemic in the Philippines caused
an outbreak in Amish communities in Ohio in 2014, started by a returning
missionary, and the infamous 2015 €œDisneyland outbreak,€� which led
California to tighten its vaccine laws.

The Philippines has long had difficulty vaccinating its people, said
Katherine OBrien, the W.H.O.s director of immunization.

The country has a population of 100 million spread out over more than
2,000 islands. Its health care system is decentralized, inept in places
and bad at tracking childrens medical records. Some islands have armed
conflicts.

The risks of an outbreak were compounded in 2017, when the rollout of the
worlds first promising dengue vaccine backfired spectacularly.

The vaccine, Dengvaxia, was withdrawn after evidence emerged that it had
the same sinister drawback as the dengue virus itself: The vaccine
appeared to make a second infection more deadly.

Angry Filipinos rebelled against all vaccines; vaccination rates fell to
60 percent, the countrys health ministry said.
Something similar happened there in the early 1990s, said Dr. Larson of
the Vaccine Confidence Project.

A conservative Catholic group heard that a new injectable contraceptive
would include a protein used in tetanus vaccine. Misunderstanding the
science, the group spread the alarm that tetanus vaccine was secretly a
birth-control method.

The mayor of Manila banned the vaccine, and the rumor spread through
Catholic anti-abortion networks as far as East Africa and South America.
Ultimately, the W.H.O. had to ask the Vatican to intervene and say the
vaccine was safe.

The next country in line for an epidemic that could spread to the United
States, Dr. Larson predicted, is Poland.

It was the lowest-ranked European Union country on her organizations
recent €œvaccine confidence survey.€� Respondents are asked, for example,
whether they feel vaccines are safe, effective and compatible with their
religious beliefs.

Poland has a vocal anti-vaccine movement called €œStop Nop,€� and its
immunization rates have dropped steadily since 2010. And, Dr. Larson
noted, Poland has many Ukrainian refugees, any one of whom could import
the virus.

Poles in Scotland are already echoing attitudes in their homeland, she
said.

€œI would not be surprised if the negative sentiment and consequent
vaccine refusal spread to the Polish communities in the U.S.€�

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/h...ne-israel.html

I blame the fuzzy wuzzies ....

I blame degenerate cross dressing hairy legged
haggis gorgers who dont even wear any underwear.

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 19:17:54 +1000, 2987pl, better known as clinically insane
cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the senile auto-contradictor's latest auto-contradicting senile
troll****

....and much better air in here!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 19:27:55 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I blame the fuzzy wuzzies ....

I blame degenerate cross dressing hairy legged
haggis gorgers who don¢t even wear any underwear.

Yeah, you are that retarded an asshole, senile Ozzietard!

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

On 06/04/2019 07:29, David P wrote:
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
snip
I blame the fuzzy wuzzies ....

And not the people who subverted the polio vaccine programme in
Afghanistan into a spy network to catch Bin Laden? Rather shortsighted
of you.


--

Roger Hayter

On 08/04/2019 09:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, "2987pl" wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesnt happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that
they fade away when there is massive local climate change
that prevents them from growing enough food etc or the
animals they eat die out etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics , given that epidemics
are made worse by poor and cramped living conditions, poor hygiene,
poor diet etc.


Soem say that our Aussie troll is so named because the first thing in
his life he can remebrer is a woman yelling :

'OH NO! ROD's PEED again'


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 08/04/2019 11:32, Roger Hayter wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

On 06/04/2019 07:29, David P wrote:
Scientists Thought They Had Measles Cornered. They Were Wrong.
snip
I blame the fuzzy wuzzies ....

And not the people who subverted the polio vaccine programme in
Afghanistan into a spy network to catch Bin Laden? Rather shortsighted
of you.



And HMRC knew all along that fraudulently obtained tax credits
and other handouts were ending up in the same city where he was
holed up, but didn't tell MI* because of 'tax secrecy'.

On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 12:39:38 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/04/2019 09:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, "2987pl" wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep rising,
without controls? What will the world be like as our population
increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then 11 billion,
as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss decisions
based on self vs. decisions based on the common good. (the common
good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesnt happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that they fade
away when there is massive local climate change that prevents them
from growing enough food etc or the animals they eat die out etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics , given that epidemics
are made worse by poor and cramped living conditions, poor hygiene,
poor diet etc.


Soem say that our Aussie troll is so named because the first thing in
his life he can remebrer is a woman yelling :

'OH NO! ROD's PEED again'

And the last thing.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 09:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, "2987pl" wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesnt happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that
they fade away when there is massive local climate change
that prevents them from growing enough food etc or the
animals they eat die out etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics , given that epidemics
are made worse by poor and cramped living conditions, poor hygiene,
poor diet etc.


Soem say that our Aussie troll is so named because the first thing in his
life he can remebrer is a woman yelling :

'OH NO! ROD's PEED again'

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 02:55:39 +1000, 2987pl, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the abnormal senile sow's latest troll****

02:55 am in Australia? ...and you've been trolling for OVER an hour already!

Do you know NO shame at all, you psychopathic senile cretin? But then, which
true psychopath does ever know ANY shame, eh, senile Rot?

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

"2987pl" Wrote in message:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, "2987pl" wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesn't happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that
they fade away when there is massive local climate change
that prevents them from growing enough food etc or the
animals they eat die out etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

That never produced megadeath and wasn't due
to population increasing with not controls either.

or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics ,

Neither did that.

given that epidemics are made worse by poor and
cramped living conditions, poor hygiene, poor diet etc.

That's bull**** with the flu epidemic in the 1910s.



Wodney is that really nym shifting you (again)?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"2987pl" Wrote in message:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 09:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:02:08 +1000, "2987pl" wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 06:26, 2987pl wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2019 05:11, David P wrote:
What happens to any other species when their numbers keep
rising, without controls? What will the world be like as our
population increases to 8 billion, then 9 billion, then 10 then
11 billion, as the United Nations projects? We need to discuss
decisions based on self vs. decisions based on the common good.
(the common good includes other creatures and future generations).

well megadeath of course.

Doesn?t happen with humans.

Has happened many times with humans

Bull**** it has. The most that has ever happened is that
they fade away when there is massive local climate change
that prevents them from growing enough food etc or the
animals they eat die out etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines or even
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics , given that epidemics
are made worse by poor and cramped living conditions, poor hygiene,
poor diet etc.


Soem say that our Aussie troll is so named because the first thing in his
life he can remebrer is a woman yelling :

'OH NO! ROD's PEED again'

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.



Wet with your **** presumably?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/