On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 15:51:19 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
what sort of cable runs to those ev vehicle charging units you can get
fitted with a gov grant?
--
I believe in a better world where Chickens can cross the road without
having their motives questioned
Ask your doctor if medical advice from a TV advert or brian reay is
right for you
What if the hokey cokey IS what it is all about ?

Slow chargers are 2Kw - 3Kw. 220Vac
Intermediate chargers are 6Kw - 8Kw. 220Vac.
They use the on board rectifer.

It depends on the size of the on board rectifier in the car,

The fast chargers are DC as the on board rectifier is not big enough. Around 60Kw.

I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing arm at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 15:51:19 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
what sort of cable runs to those ev vehicle charging units you can get
fitted with a gov grant?
--
I believe in a better world where Chickens can cross the road without
having their motives questioned
Ask your doctor if medical advice from a TV advert or brian reay is
right for you
What if the hokey cokey IS what it is all about ?

Slow chargers are 2Kw - 3Kw. 220Vac
Intermediate chargers are 6Kw - 8Kw. 220Vac.
They use the on board rectifer.

It depends on the size of the on board rectifier in the car,

The fast chargers are DC as the on board rectifier is not big enough.
Around 60Kw.

On 26/02/2019 17:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing arm at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Brian


A very valid concern.

I've not seen any chargers where the cables would/ should lay in the
path a pedestrian not associated with the car or charged would normally
take. Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't any nor that someone
couldn't set out to place a cable in a way it would cause a problem.

When you get a 'free' charger installed under the gov. scheme (if it is
still running), it must be installed on a private drive or in a private
garage etc. You can't, for example, park in the street and have it
somewhere in your front garden and run the cable across the pavement.
You are required to send photos of the planned installation point when
you apply. I suppose people could obtain their own chargers and self
install- it isn't complex (I watched the chap do ours), just a 16A spur
(or 30A in some cases).

While I fully appreciate your concerns, I think the problem of cars
parking on pavements etc is probably far more of an issue.

Yes indeed, but the council are talking about converting some streetlamps
for charging cars, and I was wondering being as these will be in the street
if there might be some vandal sitting there relishing the havoc they could
cause to such an installation!

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 26/02/2019 17:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a
streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing arm
at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable
trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Brian


A very valid concern.

I've not seen any chargers where the cables would/ should lay in the path
a pedestrian not associated with the car or charged would normally take.
Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't any nor that someone couldn't
set out to place a cable in a way it would cause a problem.

When you get a 'free' charger installed under the gov. scheme (if it is
still running), it must be installed on a private drive or in a private
garage etc. You can't, for example, park in the street and have it
somewhere in your front garden and run the cable across the pavement. You
are required to send photos of the planned installation point when you
apply. I suppose people could obtain their own chargers and self install-
it isn't complex (I watched the chap do ours), just a 16A spur (or 30A in
some cases).

While I fully appreciate your concerns, I think the problem of cars
parking on pavements etc is probably far more of an issue.

On 27/02/2019 08:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, but the council are talking about converting some streetlamps
for charging cars, and I was wondering being as these will be in the street
if there might be some vandal sitting there relishing the havoc they could
cause to such an installation!

Brian

Vandal proof socket which only becomes live after negotiation with the
car. The cable and charge security equipment carried by the end user.
For example:-
https://www.electrive.com/wp-content...-london-uk.png

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Yes indeed, but the council are talking about converting some streetlamps
for charging cars, and I was wondering being as these will be in the
street if there might be some vandal sitting there relishing the havoc
they could cause to such an installation!

For at least a year, I've been walking past pavement edge charging points
in Berekley Square - they still seem to be working - at leat cars arev
plugged into them. But, in general, a lamppost takes 1 or 2 amps at most; a
charging point will need a lot more current than that.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Brian Gaff wrote:
I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing arm at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Brian


Most people at sometime will have seen a metal channel with a 1/2€� or so
slot laid across a pavement to take rainwater from a downpipe to a
roadside gutter.Many date back to Edwardian times but are still in place.
It may be that where EVs have to be charged in residential streets a
similar channel could be laid from premises to curb, problem would be that
the fast charging cables tend to be a lot thicker than 1/2€� so to get a
cable small enough would need a rethink on chargers and voltages.

GH

In article , Marland
scribeth thus
Brian Gaff wrote:
I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing arm at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Brian


Most people at sometime will have seen a metal channel with a 1/2€� or so
slot laid across a pavement to take rainwater from a downpipe to a
roadside gutter.Many date back to Edwardian times but are still in place.
It may be that where EVs have to be charged in residential streets a
similar channel could be laid from premises to curb, problem would be that
the fast charging cables tend to be a lot thicker than 1/2€� so to get a
cable small enough would need a rethink on chargers and voltages.

GH



Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..


https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2
--
Tony Sayer

On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:

snip

Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..

Small generator?

Cheers
--
Clive

On 28/02/2019 14:09, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:

snip

Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..

Small generator?

Cheers

The obvious thing is to suggest the council sets up residents only bays
that are short enough they can assign them to one or two houses.

They can make a lot of money out of that, fines, permits, etc. so they
would probably consider it.

In article ,
Clive Arthur wrote:
On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:

snip

Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday
and during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere
near your home so how ya gonna charge?..

Small generator?

Electrically driven, of course, if you're out to reduce local pollution.
;-)

--
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:

snip

Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..

Small generator?

Going to get stolen.

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Marland
scribeth thus


Most people at sometime will have seen a metal channel with a 1/2€� or so
slot laid across a pavement to take rainwater from a downpipe to a
roadside gutter.Many date back to Edwardian times but are still in place.
It may be that where EVs have to be charged in residential streets a
similar channel could be laid from premises to curb, problem would be that
the fast charging cables tend to be a lot thicker than 1/2€� so to get a
cable small enough would need a rethink on chargers and voltages.

GH



Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..


https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2

Go along that road and you will see another version of the rainwater
channel I mentioned except it is the covered type rather than the slotted
by every downpipe.
https://goo.gl/maps/seVDykDrsQy

So put the outlets on the house walls alongside the phone junction boxes
replace the metal channels with the slotted type that a cable can be laid
in and job done.
In practice nothing will be so straightforward and the lack of a dedicated
parking spot will be a problem.
One way would be what some areas already have is a residents parking
schemes and as EV use develops and an acknowledgment that the concept of
your own personal charging point is just not practical ,and though an
outlet may be on your front facing wall all such points are common use and
agreeing to that is part of getting
a residents permit.
Working out how costs are apportioned to the right account Ill leave for
someone else to work out but possibly
with outlets connected to the web and a terminal pad like found on railway
ticket barriers that people place a card /smartphone on.

Some may not like the idea of €œtheir€� infrastructure being used by others
but many others no longer have such worries and accept that people using a
WiFi point on their premises is just part of normal life.

Still it is all conjecture at the moment and until EV use becomes the rule
rather than the exception who knows how things will turn out. It may be
that for some car ownership will just become too awkward.

GH

In article , Marland
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Marland
scribeth thus


Most people at sometime will have seen a metal channel with a 1/2€� or so
slot laid across a pavement to take rainwater from a downpipe to a
roadside gutter.Many date back to Edwardian times but are still in place.
It may be that where EVs have to be charged in residential streets a
similar channel could be laid from premises to curb, problem would be that
the fast charging cables tend to be a lot thicker than 1/2€� so to get a
cable small enough would need a rethink on chargers and voltages.

GH



Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..


https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2

Go along that road and you will see another version of the rainwater
channel I mentioned except it is the covered type rather than the slotted
by every downpipe.
https://goo.gl/maps/seVDykDrsQy

So put the outlets on the house walls alongside the phone junction boxes
replace the metal channels with the slotted type that a cable can be laid
in and job done.
In practice nothing will be so straightforward and the lack of a dedicated
parking spot will be a problem.

Yes it isn't that simple is it?.

If its on your property and you can't park there;(..

Any cables from the wall someone will trip over them, only possible way
is to have a sort of overhead coupling device a bit like some very old
petrol pumps that had hanging hoses?

Perhaps we need an Overhead line system, bit like the railways up
pantograph

Running a tad less than the usual 25 kV..



One way would be what some areas already have is a residents parking
schemes and as EV use develops and an acknowledgment that the concept of
your own personal charging point is just not practical ,and though an
outlet may be on your front facing wall all such points are common use and
agreeing to that is part of getting
a residents permit.
Working out how costs are apportioned to the right account Ill leave for
someone else to work out but possibly
with outlets connected to the web and a terminal pad like found on railway
ticket barriers that people place a card /smartphone on.

Some may not like the idea of €œtheir€� infrastructure being used by others
but many others no longer have such worries and accept that people using a
WiFi point on their premises is just part of normal life.

Still it is all conjecture at the moment and until EV use becomes the rule
rather than the exception who knows how things will turn out. It may be
that for some car ownership will just become too awkward.

GH


--
Tony Sayer

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Marland
wrote:


Working out how costs are apportioned to the right account Ill leave for
someone else to work out but possibly

Mmm, a typical cat-beller.

Not really, I gave one suggestion below but the adoption of EVs is still at
such an early stage for most people that any suggestion made now could be
picked apart,argued against discussed ,made obsolete so until adoption
becomes more mainstream there isnt much point in anyone claiming a good
method at this point.

with outlets connected to the web and a terminal pad like found on railway
ticket barriers that people place a card /smartphone on.

Some may not like the idea of €œtheir€� infrastructure being used by others
but many others no longer have such worries and accept that people using a
WiFi point on their premises is just part of normal life.

They certainly won't like it when they get presented with the electric
bill.


When I said with outlets connected to the web and a terminal pad that can
be touched by a smart card,phone like the railway barriers then most people
would realise that was a suggestion to apportion the charge to those
who were plugged in at the time, not the person on whose premises the
charger happens to be on, did that point pass you by?
Perhaps to make such a system workable no one would actually own the
charger even if it is on their property with a publicly accessible outlet .
No one seems to worry that they have gas,electric ,water meters in their
homes that they dont actually own but accept that is how it is done to get
the service so if people want to charge their vehicles when they and their
neighbours mix and match parking like now they would have to accept it.

Those who have a Broadband contract with BT can use the WIFI provision of
other BT users apart from some who have opted not to allow it. Using one
doesnt put their bill up and charging points run in the way I suggested
would not either, though I suppose there could be some initial cost in
making sure the house infrastructure is capable of supporting a charger
that could be used for hours on end but an installation should
be done safely anyway.
That is if the mains supply to domestic premises is adequate in the first
place which it probably isnt,
still if gas goes ,wood and coal burning gets banned the electrical
infrastructure in streets may well need a serious upgrade anyway and that
still doesnt solve the problem of where all this electric is going to come
from.

GH

tony sayer wrote:




Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and



https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2

Going off the subject and more to your daily work what is the round antenna
on this chimney on one of the houses in that street?

https://goo.gl/maps/DgfY6TQYCgL2

GH

On 01/03/2019 09:59, Marland wrote:
tony sayer wrote:




Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and



https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2

Going off the subject and more to your daily work what is the round antenna
on this chimney on one of the houses in that street?

https://goo.gl/maps/DgfY6TQYCgL2

GH

A couple of houses have them. Looks like microwave, maybe a link to
somewhere with good broadband?

Cheers
--
Clive

In article , Marland
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:




Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and



https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2

Going off the subject and more to your daily work what is the round antenna
on this chimney on one of the houses in that street?

https://goo.gl/maps/DgfY6TQYCgL2

GH

Try this link instead

Its an Ionica aerial see the other reply..

https://goo.gl/maps/YxfQxfxZGcy
--
Tony Sayer

On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Marland
scribeth thus
Brian Gaff wrote:
I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing arm at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Brian


Most people at sometime will have seen a metal channel with a 1/2€� or so
slot laid across a pavement to take rainwater from a downpipe to a
roadside gutter.Many date back to Edwardian times but are still in place.
It may be that where EVs have to be charged in residential streets a
similar channel could be laid from premises to curb, problem would be that
the fast charging cables tend to be a lot thicker than 1/2€� so to get a
cable small enough would need a rethink on chargers and voltages.

GH



Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..


https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2



Does each house currently (NPI) have its own petrol dispense point?
No of course not.
You will take your car to the nearest garage to fill it up.
Battery and charger technology are already available to chatge to 80% at
350kW.
For an average 200/250 mile EV with a 40kWh battery that will charge to
80% in about 7 minutes, just a tad longer than the normal petrol tankup
time.
Plus you will be able to top up at virtually any public parking place
eventually - supermarkets, public car parks etc etc.
Yes the infrastructure is not quite there yet, but give it another 7 -
10 years and we will be there.
Battery and charger technology development has never had so much money
and manpower thrown at it in the history of the universe.
Battery capacities and charge power will steadily evolve.

Andy

On Friday, 1 March 2019 12:24:22 UTC, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:




Does each house currently (NPI) have its own petrol dispense point?
No of course not.
You will take your car to the nearest garage to fill it up.

My nearest and second nearest don't have charging points.
It would be great if every petrol station had charging points.

My nearest one appears to be in a hotel car pack which I do't; think you're allowed to use unless you have a room booked.


Battery and charger technology are already available to chatge to 80% at
350kW.

Not much use if you can;t get to them though.

For an average 200/250 mile EV with a 40kWh battery that will charge to
80% in about 7 minutes, just a tad longer than the normal petrol tankup
time.

are there enough charging points though, as I said ZERO at my closest garage.

Plus you will be able to top up at virtually any public parking place
eventually

Eventually but how much are these public carparks ?


- supermarkets, public car parks etc etc.
Yes the infrastructure is not quite there yet, but give it another 7 -
10 years and we will be there.

Then I guess people might wait until then.


Battery and charger technology development has never had so much money
and manpower thrown at it in the history of the universe.

Much more is thrown at petrol and oil.
One of the reason electric vehicals aren't doing as well as they should in teh US because those selling Electric cars don't make as much profit on them as they do selling petrol cars so they aren't marketed as strongly and some even discorage a potential buyer from buying an electric car, because they also make less money on the petrol sales.


Battery capacities and charge power will steadily evolve.

But fossil fuel use has also become more efficient.


Andy

On 01/03/2019 12:24, Andy Bennet wrote:
Does each house currently (NPI) have its own petrol dispense point?
No of course not.

You will take your car to the nearest garage to fill it up.

Does each garge require you to stand there for a couolke of hours while
you fill it up?

No of course not.

You are a stupid **** aren't you?


Battery and charger technology are already available to chatge to 80% at
350kW.
For an average 200/250 mile EV with a 40kWh battery that will charge to
80% in about 7 minutes, just a tad longer than the normal petrol tankup
time.

No production lithoum is safe to charge at much less than 1 hour for a
full charge.

If you want it to last.

If its nikeltechnology its only going to have about 20 miles range for a
20 minute charge.

Plus you will be able to top up at virtually any public parking place
eventually - supermarkets, public car parks etc etc.

This is finally half way sensible comment.

Yes the infrastructure is not quite there yet, but give it another 7 -
10 years and we will be there.
Battery and charger technology development has never had so much money
and manpower thrown at it in the history of the universe.
Battery capacities and charge power will steadily evolve.

No they won't. Not capacity. That's already near maximum.



Andy


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 01/03/2019 12:24, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 28/02/2019 13:25, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Marland
scribeth thus
Brian Gaff wrote:
I think for me the question is. If you are charging your car on a
streetside
charging point, what sort of cable is uses and is there any
circumstance
where it can become a trip hazard to a blind person. I remember when
electric cars first came out the idea was mooted of a kind of swing
arm at a
high level with the cable on it to drop down past the curb to charge
the
car. To me that looks like a vandals paradise, and to leave a cable
trailing
is a h/s nightmare for being sued.
Â* Brian


Most people at sometime will have seen a metal channel with a 1/2€� or so
slotÂ* laid across a pavement to take rainwater from a downpipe to a
roadside gutter.Many date back to Edwardian times but are still in
place.
It may be that where EVs have to be charged in residential streets a
similar channel could be laid from premises to curb, problem would be
that
theÂ* fast charging cables tend to be a lot thicker than 1/2€� so to get a
cable small enough would need a rethink on chargers and voltages.

GH



Heres a side street in Cambridge as can be seen theres hardly any room
to put anything anywhere. I reckon this photo was taken on a weekday and
during the day sometimes you simply cannot get parked anywhere near your
home so how ya gonna charge?..


https://goo.gl/maps/DeNuubYa6wL2



Does each house currently (NPI) have its own petrol dispense point?
No of course not.
You will take your car to the nearest garage to fill it up.
Battery and charger technology are already available to chatge to 80% at
350kW.
For an average 200/250 mile EV with a 40kWh battery that will charge to
80% in about 7 minutes, just a tad longer than the normal petrol tankup
time.
Plus you will be able to top up at virtually any public parking place
eventually - supermarkets, public car parks etc etc.
Yes the infrastructure is not quite there yet, but give it another 7 -
10 years and we will be there.
Battery and charger technology development has never had so much money
and manpower thrown at it in the history of the universe.
Battery capacities and charge power will steadily evolve.

Andy


If I had an ev I would take it to ikea and fill up free while eating a
cheap breakfast and drink free tea.