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Default All new gas appliances to be banned in UK.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose.
Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!
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On Thursday, 21 February 2019 08:33:04 UTC, harry wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose.
Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!


how absurd
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Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 08:33:04 UTC, harry wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose.
Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!


how absurd


How October 2017...
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No neither have I but the thing is this, if they are not going to let people
get onto gas, they will do just what you see in other countries. Use
cylinders of gas instead.

In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.
It will need a love affair with nuclear, and better power storage systems
to allow renewable to work well when there is a peak demand. All electrical
heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only use it if we can
make making it far more efficient. There has been no real development of
electrical heating since the very early days of electricity. Itt still is
put current through a resistor and the device gives off heat. Its not
terribly efficient. I do not see the LED Equivelent of lights for heat
anywhere, after all.

I think its a bit soon to say we shall not use gas. As I say I took the
choice not to have gas, but I do not have any central heating installed
other than storage heaters, but they do have drawbacks of time issues. IE
they use cheaper electricity, but try to store the heat, but are not that
efficient, and often when it gets cold its when the heat store is getting
depleted before the next cheap rate time so one gets either an override
which is not really a good way to do it, or use those oil filled heaters,
which are better to take up the slack in the evenings.



No when I heard this last night I almost laughed myself silly.

Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead of
coal at the moment. Where do these come from. Are we destroying Canadian and
Norwegian forests to make electricity?
Brian

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"harry" wrote in message
...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose.
Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!



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Now where did I put that heat pump.
Brian

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"Jim K.." wrote in message
o.uk...
Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 08:33:04 UTC, harry wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose.
Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!


how absurd


How October 2017...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/





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On Thursday, 21 February 2019 10:42:08 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.


It's a lot easier and cheaper for the gas transporters to sell bulk gas to a power station than to have to pipe up lots of new housing estates and have retail sales involved in the supply chain.

The electricity retailers will be happy as they'll be able to pass on the generation costs through smart meters.

We'll pick up the bill as usual.

Owain

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It happens that Brian Gaff formulated :
All electrical heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only use
it if we can make making it far more efficient. There has been no real
development of electrical heating since the very early days of electricity.
Itt still is put current through a resistor and the device gives off heat.
Its not terribly efficient. I do not see the LED Equivelent of lights for
heat anywhere, after all.


Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of
heat out, ignoring transmission losses.
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wrote:

harry wrote:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

how absurd


And ban new houses being connected to mains gas before 2025

https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/UK-housing-Fit-for-the-future-CCC-2019.pdf
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Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

There has been no real development of electrical heating since the
very early days of electricity.

Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of heat
out, ignoring transmission losses.


Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.


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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

harry wrote:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

how absurd


And ban new houses being connected to mains gas before 2025

https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/UK-housing-Fit-for-the-future-CCC-2019.pdf


So new houses will have to be heated by electricity (storage heaters or heat
pumps) or else by oil. Until oil runs out. Then you really*will* be making
people put all their eggs in one basket, given that there are more and more
restrictions on wood and coal stoves as main or backup heating.

And you have to "sell" the idea that it will be more expensive to install,
and maybe to run, and (according to the article) will take longer to heat up
a room - presumably because it is lower power. That's a hell of an
advertising and PR campaign that you are going to need :-)

We are looking to move house and we went to look at a house the other week
that had been extensively modified by the builder who lived there. It had
some sort of underfloor heating that needed an air vent in the ceiling of
each room. My wife and I were very conscious of a continuous and intensely
irritating whine throughout the house from the air vents. Is that going to
be the future of central heating?

Having a house that is connected to a gas main is seen as a big selling
point for a house because it is cheaper to use gas than oil, and storage
heaters or bottled gas are even more expensive.

Ironic that 40 years ago "North Sea Gas" was touted as a universal saviour.



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On 21/02/2019 14:11, Andy Burns wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

There has been no real development of electrical heating* since the
very early days of electricity.

Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of
heat out, ignoring transmission losses.


Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.


But cost in excess of £10k to install ...

We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k to
upgrade our existing wet system. With a breakeven time of 12 years
compared to an electric boiler fitted to the same existing wet system, I
figured the replacement cost of the electric boiler (£1k) versa the
replacement cost of the air source heat pumps (80C system) (£7k) over
the 12 year period the electric boiler was a no brainer. So far the
running cost of the electric boiler has exceeded my expectations
(cheaper to run). It has infact worked out cheaper to run than our old
solid fuel (anthracite) boiler over this winter so far ...
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On Thursday, 21 February 2019 10:42:08 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
No neither have I but the thing is this, if they are not going to let people
get onto gas, they will do just what you see in other countries. Use
cylinders of gas instead.

In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.
It will need a love affair with nuclear, and better power storage systems
to allow renewable to work well when there is a peak demand. All electrical
heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only use it if we can
make making it far more efficient. There has been no real development of
electrical heating since the very early days of electricity. Itt still is
put current through a resistor and the device gives off heat. Its not
terribly efficient. I do not see the LED Equivelent of lights for heat
anywhere, after all.

I think its a bit soon to say we shall not use gas. As I say I took the
choice not to have gas, but I do not have any central heating installed
other than storage heaters, but they do have drawbacks of time issues. IE
they use cheaper electricity, but try to store the heat, but are not that
efficient, and often when it gets cold its when the heat store is getting
depleted before the next cheap rate time so one gets either an override
which is not really a good way to do it, or use those oil filled heaters,
which are better to take up the slack in the evenings.



No when I heard this last night I almost laughed myself silly.

Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead of
coal at the moment. Where do these come from. Are we destroying Canadian and
Norwegian forests to make electricity?



It will be heat pumps.
Many new houses have them already
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On Thursday, 21 February 2019 11:24:38 UTC, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 10:42:08 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.


It's a lot easier and cheaper for the gas transporters to sell bulk gas to a power station than to have to pipe up lots of new housing estates and have retail sales involved in the supply chain.

The electricity retailers will be happy as they'll be able to pass on the generation costs through smart meters.

We'll pick up the bill as usual.

Owain


Using gas to generate electricity is far more efficient than caol or oil,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combin...le_power_plant
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Andy Burns explained :
Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.


So for most people, the running cost is a touch more than it would cost
for the same from a gas boiler..
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On 21/02/2019 15:51, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 21/02/2019 14:11, Andy Burns wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

There has been no real development of electrical heating* since the
very early days of electricity.
Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of
heat out, ignoring transmission losses.


Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.


But cost in excess of £10k to install ...

We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k to
upgrade our existing wet system.


Is that 13k the DIY cost?



--
Cheers, Rob


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On 21/02/2019 16:48, RJH wrote:
On 21/02/2019 15:51, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 21/02/2019 14:11, Andy Burns wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

There has been no real development of electrical heating* since the
very early days of electricity.
Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of
heat out, ignoring transmission losses.

Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.


But cost in excess of £10k to install ...

We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k
to upgrade our existing wet system.


Is that 13k the DIY cost?



No, "professional" installers.
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Brian Gaff Wrote

There has been no real development of electrical
heating since the very early days of electricity.


That's just plain wrong, most obviously with heat pumps.

Itt still is put current through a resistor and the
device gives off heat. Its not terribly efficient.


That approach is in fact much more
efficient than any other way of heating.

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On 21/02/2019 16:09, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 11:24:38 UTC, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 10:42:08 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.


It's a lot easier and cheaper for the gas transporters to sell bulk gas to a power station than to have to pipe up lots of new housing estates and have retail sales involved in the supply chain.

The electricity retailers will be happy as they'll be able to pass on the generation costs through smart meters.

We'll pick up the bill as usual.

Owain


Using gas to generate electricity is far more efficient than caol or oil,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combin...le_power_plant


62% if you are lucky. A condensing boiler is more like 90% (If heat is
what you want and you are comparing it with a resistive electric heater).

--
Max Demian
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"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
No neither have I but the thing is this, if they are not going to let
people get onto gas, they will do just what you see in other countries.
Use cylinders of gas instead.

In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.
It will need a love affair with nuclear, and better power storage systems
to allow renewable to work well when there is a peak demand. All
electrical heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only use
it if we can make making it far more efficient. There has been no real
development of electrical heating since the very early days of
electricity. Itt still is put current through a resistor and the device
gives off heat. Its not terribly efficient. I do not see the LED
Equivelent of lights for heat anywhere, after all.

I think its a bit soon to say we shall not use gas. As I say I took the
choice not to have gas, but I do not have any central heating installed
other than storage heaters, but they do have drawbacks of time issues. IE
they use cheaper electricity, but try to store the heat, but are not that
efficient, and often when it gets cold its when the heat store is getting
depleted before the next cheap rate time so one gets either an override
which is not really a good way to do it, or use those oil filled heaters,
which are better to take up the slack in the evenings.



No when I heard this last night I almost laughed myself silly.


Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead of
coal at the moment.


**** all do.

Where do these come from.


Mostly canada.

Are we destroying Canadian and Norwegian forests to make electricity?


In theory they are just another renewable energy source.

Completely stupid approach to power generation tho.

"harry" wrote in message
...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html

Well they are poisoning the users I suppose.
Once again Lam a trendsetter. No gas in our house!



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In article , Rod Speed
wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
No neither have I but the thing is this, if they are not going to let
people get onto gas, they will do just what you see in other countries.
Use cylinders of gas instead.

In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the
foreseeable future they have to use Gas to generate power. It will
need a love affair with nuclear, and better power storage systems to
allow renewable to work well when there is a peak demand. All
electrical heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only
use it if we can make making it far more efficient. There has been no
real development of electrical heating since the very early days of
electricity. Itt still is put current through a resistor and the
device gives off heat. Its not terribly efficient. I do not see the
LED Equivelent of lights for heat anywhere, after all.

I think its a bit soon to say we shall not use gas. As I say I took the
choice not to have gas, but I do not have any central heating
installed other than storage heaters, but they do have drawbacks of
time issues. IE they use cheaper electricity, but try to store the
heat, but are not that efficient, and often when it gets cold its when
the heat store is getting depleted before the next cheap rate time so
one gets either an override which is not really a good way to do it,
or use those oil filled heaters, which are better to take up the slack
in the evenings.



No when I heard this last night I almost laughed myself silly.


Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead
of coal at the moment.


**** all do.


The biggest one inthen UK does.



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle


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On 21/02/2019 14:28, NY wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

harry wrote:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-target.html


how absurd


And ban new houses being connected to mains gas before 2025

https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/UK-housing-Fit-for-the-future-CCC-2019.pdf


So new houses will have to be heated by electricity (storage heaters or
heat pumps) or else by oil.


Oil already banned.

Heatpumps untril te wind stops blowing then freeze to death.


Until oil runs out. Then you really*will* be
making people put all their eggs in one basket, given that there are
more and more restrictions on wood and coal stoves as main or backup
heating.

And you have to "sell" the idea that it will be more expensive to
install, and maybe to run, and (according to the article) will take
longer to heat up a room - presumably because it is lower power. That's
a hell of an advertising and PR campaign that you are going to need :-)

We are looking to move house and we went to look at a house the other
week that had been extensively modified by the builder who lived there.
It had some sort of underfloor heating that needed an air vent in the
ceiling of each room. My wife and I were very conscious of a continuous
and intensely irritating whine throughout the house from the air vents.
Is that going to be the future of central heating?

Having a house that is connected to a gas main is seen as a big selling
point for a house because it is cheaper to use gas than oil, and storage
heaters or bottled gas are even more expensive.

Ironic that 40 years ago "North Sea Gas" was touted as a universal saviour.



--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels



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"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
No neither have I but the thing is this, if they are not going to let
people get onto gas, they will do just what you see in other countries.
Use cylinders of gas instead.

In theory, there is no real reason for the ban, as for the
foreseeable future they have to use Gas to generate power. It will
need a love affair with nuclear, and better power storage systems to
allow renewable to work well when there is a peak demand. All
electrical heating is second hand ie inefficient energy, we can only
use it if we can make making it far more efficient. There has been no
real development of electrical heating since the very early days of
electricity. Itt still is put current through a resistor and the
device gives off heat. Its not terribly efficient. I do not see the
LED Equivelent of lights for heat anywhere, after all.

I think its a bit soon to say we shall not use gas. As I say I took the
choice not to have gas, but I do not have any central heating
installed other than storage heaters, but they do have drawbacks of
time issues. IE they use cheaper electricity, but try to store the
heat, but are not that efficient, and often when it gets cold its when
the heat store is getting depleted before the next cheap rate time so
one gets either an override which is not really a good way to do it,
or use those oil filled heaters, which are better to take up the slack
in the evenings.



No when I heard this last night I almost laughed myself silly.


Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead
of coal at the moment.


**** all do.


The biggest one inthen UK does.


Still **** all of the total power generators in the UK and europe.


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On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 04:32:04 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

There has been no real development of electrical
heating since the very early days of electricity.


That's just plain wrong, most obviously with heat pumps.

Itt still is put current through a resistor and the
device gives off heat. Its not terribly efficient.


That approach is in fact much more
efficient than any other way of heating.


In auto-contradicting mode again, you subnormal senile idiot?

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 04:44:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead of
coal at the moment.


**** all do.

Where do these come from.


Mostly canada.

Are we destroying Canadian and Norwegian forests to make electricity?


In theory they are just another renewable energy source.

Completely stupid approach to power generation tho.


Senile Ozzietard has ALL the answers to ALL the questions ...ALWAYS! LMAO

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:
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On 21/02/2019 17:02, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 21/02/2019 16:48, RJH wrote:
On 21/02/2019 15:51, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 21/02/2019 14:11, Andy Burns wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

There has been no real development of electrical heating* since the
very early days of electricity.
Nor can there be, they are already 100% efficient - 1Kw in = 1Kw of
heat out, ignoring transmission losses.

Heat pumps can give up to 4kW of heat out for 1kW of electricity in.


But cost in excess of £10k to install ...

We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k
to upgrade our existing wet system.


Is that 13k the DIY cost?



No, "professional" installers.


Thanks - from what very little I know, they're not that difficult to
install? But a quick look suggests parts are £5k up, so always a lot
more than a conventional system - but maybe not outrageous if factored
in to new build costs.

Maybe the noise they make could be a problem, especially in high density
areas.

--
Cheers, Rob


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"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k to
upgrade our existing wet system.


So does it heat the rooms by blowing warm air (*) through vents in the room?
My parents had gas-fired hot-air heating in their house (installed at new
build in 1972) and said "never again": the house was always cold, especially
if you were in the draught of the floor vent, even with the thermostat set
high, and a lot of dust settled on everything despite frequent cleaning of
the air filter in the boiler. It cost a fortune to run, even after we had
cavity wall insulation; however I don't think the house had double-glazing.

It was by far the worst CH I've ever experienced - even compared with a
single storage heater in my first house.

I would say that wet radiators (heated by whatever fuel is acceptable) are
the only realistic way of heating a house. How ever you do it, it needs to
be able to achieve the temperature that is required, and to be able to heat
a cold house (after a holiday) within a few hours. Otherwise we'll all have
to invest in Hive and other control systems which allows the CH to be turned
on remotely several hours ahead of arriving home. Even our wet system, with
a bloody big oil boiler (a box about 4x3x3 feet outside), took about 3 hours
to heat the house from 12 to 20 degrees in winter if we went away over
Christmas.

I get the distinct impression that the government are banning existing CH
systems (as with ways of generating electricity) before they have got a
replacement that is at least as good. Replacing with something worse is
worthy of the strongest possible contempt.

I suppose modern houses can at least be insulated better than existing
houses are.


(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.

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In message , NY
writes
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost
£13k to upgrade our existing wet system.

I get the distinct impression that the government are banning existing
CH systems (as with ways of generating electricity) before they have
got a replacement that is at least as good. Replacing with something
worse is worthy of the strongest possible contempt.

I suppose modern houses can at least be insulated better than existing
houses are.


(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.


Have a look at the suppliers sites for detail. A friend installed one in
a Suffolk newbuild (there was a Harry payment:-). Piped underfloor
because you don't get a very high output temperature.
Array of fans at the side of the house. I think there are location
restrictions because of noise/neighbours.
I don't know how the DHW works. Perhaps a second stage heat pump. She
seems happy with it but the house is now on the market:-)

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On 21/02/2019 18:52, NY wrote:
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k
to upgrade our existing wet system.


So does it heat the rooms by blowing warm air (*) through vents in the
room? My parents had gas-fired hot-air heating in their house (installed
at new build in 1972) and said "never again": the house was always cold,
especially if you were in the draught of the floor vent, even with the
thermostat set high, and a lot of dust settled on everything despite
frequent cleaning of the air filter in the boiler. It cost a fortune to
run, even after we had cavity wall insulation; however I don't think the
house had double-glazing.

It was by far the worst CH I've ever experienced - even compared with a
single storage heater in my first house.

I would say that wet radiators (heated by whatever fuel is acceptable)
are the only realistic way of heating a house. How ever you do it, it
needs to be able to achieve the temperature that is required, and to be
able to heat a cold house (after a holiday) within a few hours.
Otherwise we'll all have to invest in Hive and other control systems
which allows the CH to be turned on remotely several hours ahead of
arriving home. Even our wet system, with a bloody big oil boiler (a box
about 4x3x3 feet outside), took about 3 hours to heat the house from 12
to 20 degrees in winter if we went away over Christmas.

I get the distinct impression that the government are banning existing
CH systems (as with ways of generating electricity) before they have got
a replacement that is at least as good. Replacing with something worse
is worthy of the strongest possible contempt.

I suppose modern houses can at least be insulated better than existing
houses are.


(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.


No, it was to replace our existing boiler and couple up to our existing
wet rad system. Problem is we would need a 16kW output system at high
temperature. To get high temperature (up to 80C) out of a air source
system you need a two stage system, one outside air heat exchanger plus
a further heat pump indoors to raise the temperture further. The outside
unit is quite a large two fan unit. We were not convinced it would be
quiet enough. Plus it needs a firm concrete base to stand on. All things
considered a very expensive install.

The most efficient system is a ground source heat pump but this is just
too cost prohibitive for a retrofit system. I guess it would be more
suitable for new builds.

All things considered it was a toss up between a high cost install and
cheap running, or a low cost install but more expensive to run. The
electric boiler won hands down purely on replacement cost, low
maintenace, low noise and a unit smaller than a gas boiler.
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On 21/02/2019 14:28, NY wrote:

And you have to "sell" the idea that it will be more expensive to
install, and maybe to run, and (according to the article) will take
longer to heat up a room - presumably because it is lower power. That's
a hell of an advertising and PR campaign that you are going to need :-)


Something like..

"It's not lower powered, it's more efficient."



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charles brought next idea :
The biggest one inthen UK does.


It does and it is just a 20 minute drive from here.


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On 21/02/2019 17:40, Max Demian wrote:
On 21/02/2019 16:09, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 11:24:38 UTC,
wrote:
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 10:42:08 UTC, Brian GaffÂ* wrote:
In theory, there is no real reasonÂ* for theÂ* ban, as for the
foreseeable
future they have to use Gas to generate power.

It's a lot easier and cheaper for the gas transporters to sell bulk
gas to a power station than to have to pipe up lots of new housing
estates and have retail sales involved in the supply chain.

The electricity retailers will be happy as they'll be able to pass on
the generation costs through smart meters.

We'll pick up the bill as usual.

Owain


Using gas to generate electricity is far more efficient than caol or oil,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combin...le_power_plant


62% if you are lucky. A condensing boiler is more like 90% (If heat is
what you want and you are comparing it with a resistive electric heater).


Is it really 90% or is that based on the same thing as Volkswagen figures?

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On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 5:44:28 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:

Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead of
coal at the moment.


**** all do.


The trains carrying these wood chips to Drax from Immingham go past our back window every day.

https://www.drax.com/technology/5-in...-biomass-port/
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On 21/02/2019 18:52, NY wrote:
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost £13k
to upgrade our existing wet system.


So does it heat the rooms by blowing warm air (*) through vents in the
room?

No

(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.


Oh dear. Heat pump produces warm water,. Needs massive rads or
underfloor pipes and LOTS of insulation.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

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On 21/02/2019 19:11, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , NY
writes
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost
£13k toÂ* upgrade our existing wet system.

I get the distinct impression that the government are banning existing
CH systems (as with ways of generating electricity) before they have
got a replacement that is at least as good. Replacing with something
worse is worthy of the strongest possible contempt.

I suppose modern houses can at least be insulated better than existing
houses are.


(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.


Have a look at the suppliers sites for detail. A friend installed one in
a Suffolk newbuild (there was a Harry payment:-). Piped underfloor
because you don't get a very high output temperature.
Array of fans at the side of the house. I think there are location
restrictions because of noise/neighbours.
I don't know how the DHW works. Perhaps a second stage heat pump. She
seems happy with it but the house is now on the market:-)

DHW uses heatpump as preheater then immersion.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

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wrote in message
...
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 5:44:28 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:

Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead
of
coal at the moment.


**** all do.


The trains carrying these wood chips to Drax from Immingham go past our
back window every day.


Still **** all of the power generators in the UK or europe.

https://www.drax.com/technology/5-in...-biomass-port/




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On 21/02/2019 19:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/2019 18:52, NY wrote:
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost
£13k to upgrade our existing wet system.


So does it heat the rooms by blowing warm air (*) through vents in the
room?

No

(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.


Oh dear. Heat pump produces warm water,. Needs massive rads or
underfloor pipes and LOTS of insulation.


Two heat pumps in series can produce 80C down to -7C outside temp.
LG, Daikin and Panasonic already produce such systems which can use
existing rads.
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On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 7:49:58 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 5:44:28 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:

Many power stations seem to be using something like wood chips instead
of
coal at the moment.

**** all do.


The trains carrying these wood chips to Drax from Immingham go past our
back window every day.


Still **** all of the power generators in the UK or europe.


6% last year. Coal is zero most days now.

https://renewablesnow.com/news/uk-wi...sept-9-626083/
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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 05:22:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

The biggest one inthen UK does.


Still **** all of the total power generators in the UK and europe.


Senile Ozzie troll knows it ALL better, AGAIN ...and AGAIN ...and AGAIN! LOL

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:
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On 21/02/2019 19:56, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 21/02/2019 19:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/02/2019 18:52, NY wrote:
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
...
We looked at installing an air source heatpump, would have cost
£13k to upgrade our existing wet system.

So does it heat the rooms by blowing warm air (*) through vents in
the room?

No

(*) I presume it does, since you say that it replaces your wet system.


Oh dear. Heat pump produces warm water,. Needs massive rads or
underfloor pipes and LOTS of insulation.


Two heat pumps in series can produce 80C down to -7C outside temp.
LG, Daikin and Panasonic already produce such systems which can use
existing rads.


Air source heat pumps are not an attractive proposition for the very
many Victorian terraces, even if the fans were put at the bottom of
(often short) gardens and a practicable way found to insulate their
solid walls without all the unintended consequences.

I blame the Luftwaffe's incompetence.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 06:49:44 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


The trains carrying these wood chips to Drax from Immingham go past our
back window every day.


Still **** all of the power generators in the UK or europe.


Stop pestering normal humans with your senility, senile Rot!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
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