Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

Another Dave Wrote in message:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Another Dave

How much is the boiler?
pellet burner? Automatic feed? Kw?
3 quotes?

Possibly someone trying to cherry pick the profit off the rest of
the job to "punish" him for doing rest himself.
Possibly a "don't want the job" price because he's done the rest
himself...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 07/01/2019 15:15, Jim K.. wrote:
Another Dave Wrote in message:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Another Dave

How much is the boiler?
pellet burner? Automatic feed? Kw?
3 quotes?


All very good questions to which I don't have a ready answer. Actually
it's the son of my wife's friend so I'm not likely to get answers soon.
All I know is that finding any other fitters is proving difficult.

Another Dave

Possibly someone trying to cherry pick the profit off the rest of
the job to "punish" him for doing rest himself.
Possibly a "don't want the job" price because he's done the rest
himself...



--
Change nospam to techie

On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:

Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

It does rather depend on what this log burning boiler is... they can
very quite dramatically in scale from a simple log burner with attached
back boiler, to something more akin to the boiler the size of a small
steam train! I can well believe the latter are many thousands just for
the boiler.

A friend of mine had/has one heating a large farmhouse - its a
significant bit of kit housed in a garage sized outbuilding. He kept
lumps of tree and scrap wood from the farm stacked up near it. When it
wanted feeding. he would let rip with a chain saw to get it into a size
that would fit (it could probably take something the size of half a
pallet in one lump), open the huge door at the front, and lob it in.

It was quite versatile - you could lob pretty much anything into it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Another Dave


It will probably be a HETAS person who can self certify any installation
Uunder building regs Part J.

The DIY alternative is to comply with Part J and have a building control
person sign it off.

AJH

On Monday, 7 January 2019 14:38:23 UTC, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

Ridiculous price.
Be sure to get a "room sealed" one.
ie draws air into the stove from directly outside.
https://www.stovesonline.co.uk/external-air-stove.html

The biggest expense is often the chimney.

On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?


If he's done all the plumbing why can't he install the boiler, flue etc?
All **** easy jobs to do.

Too many people scared off doing this sort of work by the clueless
snowflake people that squak "illegal", "notifiable", "authorised" etc etc.
Also obviously people who make a living from doing this work will say
whatever they were taught to say during the indoctrination of their
expensive courses and people selling the hardware will cover themselves
by saying the same things.

Simple get-out clause if selling would be...

"It was like it when I bought it"
"I've lost the certificate of installation"

Everything is a scam. You can't officially fit your own bloody windows
unless your "FENSTA" registered FFS.

People need to stop giving up their freedom by complying with the next
wave of B.S. non-laws and get stuck in if they're capable of doing the
job correctly and to accepted current standards.

Domestic wiring, Gas boiler fitting/maintenance, window fitting, wood
burner fitting.... and guess what, I've not been carted off to prison or
slapped with a heavy fine for non-compliance, no midnight raids from the
Part-P Police or the Gas-Safe Mafia.

Just do-it

In message , AJH
writes
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?
Another Dave


It will probably be a HETAS person who can self certify any
installation Uunder building regs Part J.

The DIY alternative is to comply with Part J and have a building
control person sign it off.

Yes. I did mine under a building notice with BC sign off. (much smaller
and no back boiler fitted, 12kW)

--
Tim Lamb

In message , www.GymRatZ.co.uk
writes
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?


If he's done all the plumbing why can't he install the boiler, flue etc?
All **** easy jobs to do.

Too many people scared off doing this sort of work by the clueless
snowflake people that squak "illegal", "notifiable", "authorised" etc etc.
Also obviously people who make a living from doing this work will say
whatever they were taught to say during the indoctrination of their
expensive courses and people selling the hardware will cover themselves
by saying the same things.

Simple get-out clause if selling would be...

"It was like it when I bought it"
"I've lost the certificate of installation"

Everything is a scam. You can't officially fit your own bloody windows
unless your "FENSTA" registered FFS.

People need to stop giving up their freedom by complying with the next
wave of B.S. non-laws and get stuck in if they're capable of doing the
job correctly and to accepted current standards.

Domestic wiring, Gas boiler fitting/maintenance, window fitting, wood
burner fitting.... and guess what, I've not been carted off to prison or
slapped with a heavy fine for non-compliance, no midnight raids from the
Part-P Police or the Gas-Safe Mafia.

Just do-it


OK until you go to sell when the buyers solicitor will demand all the
relevant bits of paper.
Reading up on indemnity insurance recently, I noticed a *get out* clause
if planning are notified of non compliance!
--
Tim Lamb

On 07/01/2019 17:18, AJH wrote:
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Another Dave


It will probably be a HETAS person who can self certify any installation
Uunder building regs Part J.

The DIY alternative is to comply with Part J and have a building control
person sign it off.


Thank you. I'll suggest that he look into that.

Another Dave

--
Change nospam to techie

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , AJH
writes
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?
Another Dave


It will probably be a HETAS person who can self certify any
installation Uunder building regs Part J.

The DIY alternative is to comply with Part J and have a building
control person sign it off.

Yes. I did mine under a building notice with BC sign off. (much smaller
and no back boiler fitted, 12kW)


Aka a "stove"?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , www.GymRatZ.co.uk
writes
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?


If he's done all the plumbing why can't he install the boiler, flue etc?
All **** easy jobs to do.

Too many people scared off doing this sort of work by the clueless
snowflake people that squak "illegal", "notifiable", "authorised" etc etc.
Also obviously people who make a living from doing this work will say
whatever they were taught to say during the indoctrination of their
expensive courses and people selling the hardware will cover themselves
by saying the same things.

Simple get-out clause if selling would be...

"It was like it when I bought it"
"I've lost the certificate of installation"

Everything is a scam. You can't officially fit your own bloody windows
unless your "FENSTA" registered FFS.

People need to stop giving up their freedom by complying with the next
wave of B.S. non-laws and get stuck in if they're capable of doing the
job correctly and to accepted current standards.

Domestic wiring, Gas boiler fitting/maintenance, window fitting, wood
burner fitting.... and guess what, I've not been carted off to prison or
slapped with a heavy fine for non-compliance, no midnight raids from the
Part-P Police or the Gas-Safe Mafia.

Just do-it


OK until you go to sell when the buyers solicitor will demand all the
relevant bits of paper.
Reading up on indemnity insurance recently, I noticed a *get out* clause
if planning are notified of non compliance!

Nothing new there. The insured risk is lower the fewer know about it...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , Jim K..
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , AJH
writes
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?
Another Dave


It will probably be a HETAS person who can self certify any
installation Uunder building regs Part J.

The DIY alternative is to comply with Part J and have a building
control person sign it off.

Yes. I did mine under a building notice with BC sign off. (much smaller
and no back boiler fitted, 12kW)


Aka a "stove"?

If you must:-) Back boiler was optional.

--
Tim Lamb

John Rumm wrote:
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:

Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

It does rather depend on what this log burning boiler is... they can
very quite dramatically in scale from a simple log burner with attached
back boiler, to something more akin to the boiler the size of a small
steam train! I can well believe the latter are many thousands just for
the boiler.

A friend of mine had/has one heating a large farmhouse - its a
significant bit of kit housed in a garage sized outbuilding. He kept
lumps of tree and scrap wood from the farm stacked up near it. When it
wanted feeding. he would let rip with a chain saw to get it into a size
that would fit (it could probably take something the size of half a
pallet in one lump), open the huge door at the front, and lob it in.

It was quite versatile - you could lob pretty much anything into it.


A modern version may be marketed as Biomass, that will immediately get the
buyer stung by the
€œWe know you want to save the planet and will pay to do so levy€�.

GH

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , Jim K..
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , AJH
writes
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?
Another Dave


It will probably be a HETAS person who can self certify any
installation Uunder building regs Part J.

The DIY alternative is to comply with Part J and have a building
control person sign it off.

Yes. I did mine under a building notice with BC sign off. (much smaller
and no back boiler fitted, 12kW)


Aka a "stove"?

If you must:-) Back boiler was optional.


Keeping it real ;-)

Once above say 5kw ISTR lots of stoves can be specced with a
boiler. I wonder how many are ever used to their full
potential...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Get three quotes from different vendors/installers.

My system has a back boiler on a wood burning stove with manual log
feed. I paid slightly above the odds for a stove with a particularly
nice front window. It was nothing like £10k including the cost of the
back boiler and conversion of the old open fireplace to take it.

£10k might be a bargain for an industrial chipped wood furnace setup
with automatic pelleted feed. One of my plumber neighbours has one.
(though it seems to be a royal PITA)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown Wrote in message:
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:
Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

Get three quotes from different vendors/installers.

My system has a back boiler on a wood burning stove with manual log
feed. I paid slightly above the odds for a stove with a particularly
nice front window. It was nothing like £10k including the cost of the
back boiler and conversion of the old open fireplace to take it.

£10k might be a bargain for an industrial chipped wood furnace setup
with automatic pelleted feed. One of my plumber neighbours has one.
(though it seems to be a royal PITA)


Indeed.

Mind you "converting an old mill" sounds like lots of potential
for a right old heat & money sink....
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 07/01/2019 21:48, Jim K.. wrote:
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:

If you must:-) Back boiler was optional.

Keeping it real ;-)

Once above say 5kw ISTR lots of stoves can be specced with a
boiler. I wonder how many are ever used to their full
potential...

Mine is. Scrap wood is free and sometimes I have to buy it but both are
cheaper than oil and 12kW stove will almost shut the oil boiler down.
There is some lack of convenience cutting up scrap wood and stacking
logs compared to just altering a thermostat on oil CH though.

Bulk solid fuel has to be manhandled daily and ash emptied out but the
stove designs now are quite clever. The only practical catch is that you
have to plastic bag ash before putting it in the dustbin and the ash
from overnight is often far too hot to bag immediately.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 07/01/2019 16:49, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/01/2019 14:38, Another Dave wrote:

Friend is converting an old mill in east Staffordshire and wants to
install a log burning boiler for central heating. He's been quoted
£10,000 to install the boiler. He's done all the plumbing but we
understand you have to get an "authorised" person to do the boiler. It
seems like racketeering to me but does does anybody have a way out?

It does rather depend on what this log burning boiler is... they can
very quite dramatically in scale from a simple log burner with attached
back boiler, to something more akin to the boiler the size of a small
steam train! I can well believe the latter are many thousands just for
the boiler.

A friend of mine had/has one heating a large farmhouse - its a
significant bit of kit housed in a garage sized outbuilding. He kept
lumps of tree and scrap wood from the farm stacked up near it. When it
wanted feeding. he would let rip with a chain saw to get it into a size
that would fit (it could probably take something the size of half a
pallet in one lump), open the huge door at the front, and lob it in.

It was quite versatile - you could lob pretty much anything into it.

I used to know a lad from a farming family whose home was heated by
something which ate small bales of straw, a few at a time.

Martin Brown Wrote in message:
On 07/01/2019 21:48, Jim K.. wrote:
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:

If you must:-) Back boiler was optional.

Keeping it real ;-)

Once above say 5kw ISTR lots of stoves can be specced with a
boiler. I wonder how many are ever used to their full
potential...

Mine is. Scrap wood is free and sometimes I have to buy it but both are
cheaper than oil

Depends how you value your time.

and 12kW stove will almost shut the oil boiler down.

How much does it eat in a day though? And how to measure? :-)

There is some lack of convenience cutting up scrap wood and stacking
logs compared to just altering a thermostat on oil CH though.

Bulk solid fuel has to be manhandled daily and ash emptied out but the
stove designs now are quite clever. The only practical catch is that you
have to plastic bag ash before putting it in the dustbin and the ash
from overnight is often far too hot to bag immediately.

Is yours smoke free zone approved etc?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 08/01/2019 11:17, Jim K.. wrote:
Martin Brown Wrote in message:
On 07/01/2019 21:48, Jim K.. wrote:
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:

If you must:-) Back boiler was optional.

Keeping it real ;-)

Once above say 5kw ISTR lots of stoves can be specced with a
boiler. I wonder how many are ever used to their full
potential...

Mine is. Scrap wood is free and sometimes I have to buy it but both are
cheaper than oil

Depends how you value your time.

Its good exercise and OK except in really prolonged foul weather.

and 12kW stove will almost shut the oil boiler down.

How much does it eat in a day though? And how to measure? :-)

About two trug loads of logs/day if run flat out in the coldest weather.

There is some lack of convenience cutting up scrap wood and stacking
logs compared to just altering a thermostat on oil CH though.

Bulk solid fuel has to be manhandled daily and ash emptied out but the
stove designs now are quite clever. The only practical catch is that you
have to plastic bag ash before putting it in the dustbin and the ash
from overnight is often far too hot to bag immediately.

Is yours smoke free zone approved etc?

It is but where I live we can still burn smokey coal if we wish! I could
get more out of it by reconfiguring for solid fuel instead of wood too.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Jim K..
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
Yes. I did mine under a building notice with BC sign off. (much smaller
and no back boiler fitted, 12kW)


Aka a "stove"?

If you must:-) Back boiler was optional.


Keeping it real ;-)

Once above say 5kw ISTR lots of stoves can be specced with a
boiler. I wonder how many are ever used to their full
potential...

Initially I planned to piggy back to the existing gas CH. I rather lost
the plot when learning about balancing valves (Dunsley?) and there is a
suggested issue that the water jacket lowers the firebasket temperature
leading to sooting of the glass doors.

Basically it is a *feature* item that usefully uses up fallen timber and
keeps me out of other mischief.

--
Tim Lamb

On 08/01/2019 17:43, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jim K..
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:

Once above say 5kw ISTR lots of stoves can be specced with a
boiler. I wonder how many are ever used to their full
potential...

Initially I planned to piggy back to the existing gas CH. I rather lost
the plot when learning about balancing valves (Dunsley?) and there is a
suggested issue that the water jacket lowers the firebasket temperature
leading to sooting of the glass doors.

That can be overcome by clever airflow design so that the front glass is
effectively self cleaning provided that you run it correctly. The only
time mine gets a thin layer of tar and a slight soot deposit is when it
is left damped down overnight and there is still a bit of wood left. The
charcoal embers burn clean enough not to leave any deposit.

The water jacket does condense out some tar on its surface but that
isn't a real problem. The superheater pipes in the outgoing flue stay
remarkably clean. I am careful only to burn dry wood.

Basically it is a *feature* item that usefully uses up fallen timber and
keeps me out of other mischief.

Mine now provides the bulk of our domestic heating provided that I can
be bothered to supply it with wood (weather permitting).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown