With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?
--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I thought the fires started in the appliances, not the ducting?
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I thought the fires started in the appliances, not the ducting?

I think they do, but a duct to the outside probably acts as a good supply of
air to feed an appliance fire, whereas if the fire consumes the air in a
closed room, it may use up the oxygen and suffocate itself out. Do any ducts
have a one-way filter to allow air out, without letting air in, either to
feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm room if the drier door is left
open?

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I thought the fires started in the appliances, not the ducting?

I think they do, but a duct to the outside probably acts as a good supply
of air to feed an appliance fire, whereas if the fire consumes the air in
a closed room, it may use up the oxygen and suffocate itself out.

That's not going to happen.

Do any ducts have a one-way filter to allow air out, without letting air
in, either to feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm room if the drier
door is left open?

Nope.

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 19:36:17 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

I think they do, but a duct to the outside probably acts as a good supply
of air to feed an appliance fire, whereas if the fire consumes the air in
a closed room, it may use up the oxygen and suffocate itself out.

That's not going to happen.

Are you sure, senile Rot? Senilely sure, again? BG

Do any ducts have a one-way filter to allow air out, without letting air
in, either to feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm room if the drier
door is left open?

Nope.

Are you sure, again, senile Rot? Senilely sure? BG

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Saturday, 15 September 2018 10:17:44 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I thought the fires started in the appliances, not the ducting?

I think they do, but a duct to the outside probably acts as a good supply of
air to feed an appliance fire, whereas if the fire consumes the air in a
closed room, it may use up the oxygen and suffocate itself out. Do any ducts
have a one-way filter to allow air out, without letting air in, either to
feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm room if the drier door is left
open?

Human survivability is much better when there's plenty of air available. It's smoke that usually kills people in a fire. There has always been concern about fanned air increasing the fire, but in fact the phenomenon of flashover, which massively increases fire intensity & spread, occurs only when there is insufficient air.

The ideal thing is to provide lots of air containing water spray, and I saw a trials of such a system long ago with positive results.


NT

On 15/09/2018 13:45, wrote:
On Saturday, 15 September 2018 10:17:44 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I thought the fires started in the appliances, not the ducting?

I think they do, but a duct to the outside probably acts as a good supply of
air to feed an appliance fire, whereas if the fire consumes the air in a
closed room, it may use up the oxygen and suffocate itself out. Do any ducts
have a one-way filter to allow air out, without letting air in, either to
feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm room if the drier door is left
open?

Human survivability is much better when there's plenty of air available. It's smoke that usually kills people in a fire. There has always been concern about fanned air increasing the fire, but in fact the phenomenon of flashover, which massively increases fire intensity & spread, occurs only when there is insufficient air.

The ideal thing is to provide lots of air containing water spray, and I saw a trials of such a system long ago with positive results.

Some of the fire brigades have started using massive industrial fans to
blow air into buildings to help them work inside them. Although it
seemed counter intuitive apparently it can work quite well.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Some of the fire brigades have started using massive industrial fans to
blow air into buildings to help them work inside them. Although it seemed
counter intuitive apparently it can work quite well.

I read an article years ago saying that UK fire brigades were beginning
trials of a system that had been in use in the US for years: using blowers
at one side of the property to flow fresh air into the building and blow the
flames out through the back. It also keeps the building clear of smoke so
they can see what they are doing, and ensures an excess of oxygen to avoid
flashover which occurs when the oxygen gets low.

On Saturday, 15 September 2018 14:46:04 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/09/2018 13:45, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 15 September 2018 10:17:44 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I thought the fires started in the appliances, not the ducting?

I think they do, but a duct to the outside probably acts as a good supply of
air to feed an appliance fire, whereas if the fire consumes the air in a
closed room, it may use up the oxygen and suffocate itself out. Do any ducts
have a one-way filter to allow air out, without letting air in, either to
feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm room if the drier door is left
open?

Human survivability is much better when there's plenty of air available.. It's smoke that usually kills people in a fire. There has always been concern about fanned air increasing the fire, but in fact the phenomenon of flashover, which massively increases fire intensity & spread, occurs only when there is insufficient air.

The ideal thing is to provide lots of air containing water spray, and I saw a trials of such a system long ago with positive results.

Some of the fire brigades have started using massive industrial fans to
blow air into buildings to help them work inside them. Although it
seemed counter intuitive apparently it can work quite well.

That's what I saw tested eons ago. They were adding water spray into the airstream. The survivability results looked good.


NT

On 15/09/2018 10:17, NY wrote:

out. Do any ducts have a one-way filter to allow air out, without
letting air in, either to feed a fire or to let cold air into a warm
room if the drier door is left open?

They have a flap on the end. You buy the flap separately.

Bill

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

just service the machine now and again ......

Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Its not going to affect the fire risk if you have a dodgy dryer.


Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I would worry about condensation. I once extended my dryer hose when it was
temporarily located in my garage and I was surprised at just how much
condensation occurred due to the extra length.

I suppose as long as the run isnt too long youd be fine.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

In message
,
Tim+ writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Its not going to affect the fire risk if you have a dodgy dryer.


Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

I would worry about condensation. I once extended my dryer hose when it was
temporarily located in my garage and I was surprised at just how much
condensation occurred due to the extra length.

I suppose as long as the run isnt too long youd be fine.

About 2m by the time it has got through the wall. The wall kits seem to
use it anyway.

I have had a look round the supplier sites since I posted. No
restrictions found. Wickes looks OK although there are plenty of others.
Is reducing the air flow resistance a benefit anyway?
Having disassembled a few over the years, I just don't like to think of
the gathered crud:-(
--
Tim Lamb

On 15/09/2018 09:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire risk
but... what about condensation issues?

You may get condensation in the duct - but that would be true for ali or
plastic. Having it routed so that it can drain will help.

You can get some twin wall duct that is more resistant to condensation -
although that tends to be a combination of ali foil and plastic.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 09:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using
100mm aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.
Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire
risk but... what about condensation issues?

You may get condensation in the duct - but that would be true for ali
or plastic. Having it routed so that it can drain will help.

Ha! Ha! First came the electrician closely followed by the boiler
installer. Next I put in the waste for the washing m/c. Then the water
softener man demonstrated how to do a 90 deg. bend using only 3
fittings. When I came to couple up the h/c for the shower, utility sink
and washbasin there was hardly any wall left available.

Routing the drier vent is going to be tortuous.

I must put up a photo and you can all have a laugh. Plumbers don't seem
to have much concern that PVC insulation is only good up to 70 deg.C

You can get some twin wall duct that is more resistant to condensation
- although that tends to be a combination of ali foil and plastic.

Not possible to arrange a fall with our tumble drier. Comes off the
bottom.

--
Tim Lamb

On 15/09/2018 20:17, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 09:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using
100mmÂ* aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.
Â*Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire
riskÂ* but... what about condensation issues?

You may get condensation in the duct - but that would be true for ali
or plastic. Having it routed so that it can drain will help.

Ha! Ha! First came the electrician closely followed by the boiler
installer. NextÂ* I put in the waste for the washing m/c. Then the water
softener man demonstrated how to do a 90 deg. bend using only 3
fittings. When I came to couple up the h/c for the shower, utility sink
and washbasin there was hardly any wall left available.

Routing the drier vent is going to be tortuous.

Have you considered using a condensing TD?

I must put up a photo and you can all have a laugh. Plumbers don't seem
to have much concern that PVC insulation is only good up to 70 deg.C

You can get some twin wall duct that is more resistant to condensation
- although that tends to be a combination of ali foil and plastic.

Not possible to arrange a fall with our tumble drier. Comes off the bottom.

Well you can use:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MRLAD4.html

and if condensation is really a problem, then:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGCT.html

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 20:17, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 09:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using
100mm* aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.
*Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire
risk* but... what about condensation issues?

You may get condensation in the duct - but that would be true for
ali or plastic. Having it routed so that it can drain will help.
Ha! Ha! First came the electrician closely followed by the boiler
installer. Next* I put in the waste for the washing m/c. Then the
water softener man demonstrated how to do a 90 deg. bend using only 3
fittings. When I came to couple up the h/c for the shower, utility
sink and washbasin there was hardly any wall left available.
Routing the drier vent is going to be tortuous.

Have you considered using a condensing TD?

I must put up a photo and you can all have a laugh. Plumbers don't
seem to have much concern that PVC insulation is only good up to 70
deg.C

You can get some twin wall duct that is more resistant to
condensation - although that tends to be a combination of ali foil
and plastic.
Not possible to arrange a fall with our tumble drier. Comes off the
bottom.

Well you can use:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MRLAD4.html

I think I'll go with the Wickes offering and see if problems arise.

See Dropbox photo for access issues!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3l60h231do...%20plumbing%20
001.JPG?dl=0

and if condensation is really a problem, then:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGCT.html

Not come across that. I wonder how many builders have?


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 20:17, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 09:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using
100mm aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.
Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire
risk but... what about condensation issues?

You may get condensation in the duct - but that would be true for
ali or plastic. Having it routed so that it can drain will help.
Ha! Ha! First came the electrician closely followed by the boiler
installer. Next I put in the waste for the washing m/c. Then the
water softener man demonstrated how to do a 90 deg. bend using only 3
fittings. When I came to couple up the h/c for the shower, utility
sink and washbasin there was hardly any wall left available.
Routing the drier vent is going to be tortuous.

Have you considered using a condensing TD?

I must put up a photo and you can all have a laugh. Plumbers don't
seem to have much concern that PVC insulation is only good up to 70
deg.C

You can get some twin wall duct that is more resistant to
condensation - although that tends to be a combination of ali foil
and plastic.
Not possible to arrange a fall with our tumble drier. Comes off the
bottom.

Well you can use:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MRLAD4.html

I think I'll go with the Wickes offering and see if problems arise.

See Dropbox photo for access issues!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3l60h231do...%20plumbing%20
001.JPG?dl=0


Neat!

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 20:17, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/09/2018 09:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using
100mm* aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.
*Lower air flow resistance, less likelihood of trapped fibres/fire
risk* but... what about condensation issues?

You may get condensation in the duct - but that would be true for
ali or plastic. Having it routed so that it can drain will help.
Ha! Ha! First came the electrician closely followed by the boiler
installer. Next* I put in the waste for the washing m/c. Then the
water softener man demonstrated how to do a 90 deg. bend using only
3 fittings. When I came to couple up the h/c for the shower, utility
sink and washbasin there was hardly any wall left available.
Routing the drier vent is going to be tortuous.

Have you considered using a condensing TD?

I must put up a photo and you can all have a laugh. Plumbers don't
seem to have much concern that PVC insulation is only good up to 70


You can get some twin wall duct that is more resistant to
condensation - although that tends to be a combination of ali foil
and plastic.
Not possible to arrange a fall with our tumble drier. Comes off the
bottom.

Well you can use:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MRLAD4.html

I think I'll go with the Wickes offering and see if problems arise.

See Dropbox photo for access issues!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3l60h231do...%20plumbing%20
001.JPG?dl=0

and if condensation is really a problem, then:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGCT.html

Not come across that. I wonder how many builders have?

Dogs breakfast? Tumble drier and washing m/c go to the right of the
water softener.

Big disappointment with the Screwfix pressure regulator. Basically, it
doesn't. Static pressure is around 5 bar. Even a small draw off drops
the indicated pressure to 1.5bar from the 3 set.

--
Tim Lamb

On Saturday, 15 September 2018 09:57:33 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
With the recent fuss about utility fires I was contemplating using 100mm
aluminium flexible duct rather than the usual plastic.

I'm not sure flexi aluminium is much smoother inside than plastic.

I'd prefer 4" waste pipe for any lengthy runs. Waste pipe also comes with rodding eyes :-)

If it's going through fire compartments then it should be steel with sprung fire-flaps with fusible links.

Owain