In article ,
Graeme wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

If it's only for speech a soundbar (without sub or whatever) should be OK.
Although with any such speakers, a graphic equaliser might make them
clearer for speech. Sadly, a vast amount of TV speech is of remarkably
poor quality. Does she have the same problem with say R4?

Interesting comparison, which had not occurred to me, with my own TV
listening problems. I struggle with the TV, without the sound bar, but
have no problems with the radio, usually R2 or R4, usually using a
portable radio bought for my 21st, 45 years ago, so not exactly top of
the range 'hi fi'.

All you need to do is listen to the same voice on TV and radio. TV are far
more interested in looks than what it sounds like - even with a news
presenter.

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Top of te range hifi is in fact exactly the wriong choice for someone
with heraing difficulties. The top 4 octaves are wasted, and the bottom
4 just muddy the waters.

Must be one of your famed amplifiers if it is generating sounds on those
frequencies from speech.

--
*How's my driving? Call 999*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill Wright
writes
On 04/09/2018 17:09, Reentrant wrote:
On 04/09/2018 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her. She tried
a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV sound into
the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very successful. She
doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about a sound bar or
computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

Bill
Techmoan tested the Sony SRS-LSR100 recently and was quite impressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3hKbl9f-U&t=657s

That looks very promising.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine had one of these Sony's arrive yesterday.
He has just been on the phone, having failed to get it to work.

Apparently, it uses TOSLink,

That's just one of the sources of sound from the TV it can use.

which meant he had to disconnect the
soundbar. He had ordered a toslink splitter with it, but that has to come
separately from China.

Why does he want to run them both at once ?

The instructions say to set the TV output to pcm, and he says he has been
down every menu and can't find this setting.

He has gone off to download the TV instructions so he can print them in
readable form, after which he says he will ring back if he still needs
help.

I guess that all I'll be able to do is offer sympathy and maybe a bit of
calm, as I know little about the connections on my telly, let alone his.

On 05/09/2018 00:39, Bill Wright wrote:
On 04/09/2018 17:45, David wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2018 14:41:51 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her. She
tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV sound
into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very successful.
She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about a sound bar or
computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

Bill

It would help to know what outputs the TV has and how up market it is.

I'll have to look into that I suppose.

Also, where does she sit to watch the TV; is it always the same chair or
sofa?

Yes.

House of Lords style speaker in the back of the seat?

SteveW

In message , Josh Nack
writes


"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill Wright
writes
On 04/09/2018 17:09, Reentrant wrote:
On 04/09/2018 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all
that deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish
flatscreen telly very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can
do for her. She tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed
to feed the TV sound into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but
it wasn't very successful. She doesn't want to wear headphones.
I'm wondering about a sound bar or computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

Bill
Techmoan tested the Sony SRS-LSR100 recently and was quite impressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3hKbl9f-U&t=657s

That looks very promising.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine had one of these Sony's arrive
yesterday. He has just been on the phone, having failed to get it to
work.

Apparently, it uses TOSLink,

That's just one of the sources of sound from the TV it can use.

which meant he had to disconnect the
soundbar. He had ordered a toslink splitter with it, but that has to
come separately from China.

Why does he want to run them both at once ?

I'm not sure, but the instructions say to use toslink if possible. His
wife's hearing is normal, his is not, so I assume they want a soundbar
plus this device for him.

I now think, after another call from him that the other toslink device
is a Sony Soundbase, which is also pcm over toslink, so swapping them
over should work, but doesn't.

Not sure why he can't use the headphone or line out jack or what his TV
has.

Anyway, I've been persuaded to drive over and give a verdict tomorrow
before he returns it to the supplier.
--
Bill

On 05/09/2018 19:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Top of te range hifi is in fact exactly the wriong choice for someone
with heraing difficulties. The top 4 octaves are wasted, and the bottom
4 just muddy the waters.

Must be one of your famed amplifiers if it is generating sounds on those
frequencies from speech.

His point still stands though that for someone with hearing difficulties
you want something approximating the telephone line passband 300-3kHz
for the best chance of them understanding the spoken word.

TV programs do have a lot of high and low frequency components for
explosions and background music which kills speech intelligibility for
anyone whose hearing is marginal using an aid.

Subtitles if available make a big difference (as does some basic lip
reading training if the speaker on the TV is facing the camera).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Are the "tone" controls set to suit her hearing? Does she need the Treble
turned up and the Bass down? ?Many people apply the wrong instinct on this
and turn up the Bass

On 06/09/18 08:49, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/09/2018 19:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Top of te range hifi is in fact exactly the wriong choice for someone
with heraing difficulties. The top 4 octaves are wasted, and the bottom
4 just muddy the waters.

Must be one of your famed amplifiers if it is generating sounds on those
frequencies from speech.

His point still stands though that for someone with hearing difficulties
you want something approximating the telephone line passband 300-3kHz
for the best chance of them understanding the spoken word.

TV programs do have a lot of high and low frequency components for
explosions and background music which kills speech intelligibility for
anyone whose hearing is marginal using an aid.

Subtitles if available make a big difference (as does some basic lip
reading training if the speaker on the TV is facing the camera).

its just plow**** being miserable again. Like all lefty****s he
believes he was cut out for something better and the Filthy capitalists
prevented him achieving it.

Whereas I know I was cut out for something worse and only massive effort
prevented it.


Moving on to audio, a late deafish friend said that the problem was
internal ear intermodulation distortion. The world as heard through a
fuzz box so to speak.


The less frequencies there were - particularly from different sources -
the easier it was.


Hnece te real problem of hearing with high background noise. My BIL
can't follow TV with lots of people talking.


My ex wifes hearing curves were salutary. started to roll off around
600hz and by the time it was 4KHz there as NOTHING left. 90dB down or more.

So 300hz-3Khz is ahere it's at at best. The bass sounds can be heard but
reduce intelligibility.


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 06/09/2018 10:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My ex wifes hearing curves were salutary. started to roll off around
600hz and by the time it was 4KHz there as NOTHING left. 90dB down or more.

So 300hz-3Khz is ahere it's at at best. The bass sounds can be heard but
reduce intelligibility.

I had to explain to a very non-technical person what the effect of not
being able to hear high frequencies is. Eventually, I came up with a
satisfactory analogy. "Imagine looking at a stained glass windows, but
all the reds and blues are blacked-out. Would you be able easily to work
out what the window depicts?"

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/09/2018 19:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Top of te range hifi is in fact exactly the wriong choice for someone
with heraing difficulties. The top 4 octaves are wasted, and the bottom
4 just muddy the waters.

Must be one of your famed amplifiers if it is generating sounds on those
frequencies from speech.

His point still stands though that for someone with hearing difficulties
you want something approximating the telephone line passband 300-3kHz
for the best chance of them understanding the spoken word.

Depends what you mean by passband. Ruler flat from 300 - 3k then dropping
sharply outside that would be OK. But practical sound systems ain't
designed like that.

TV programs do have a lot of high and low frequency components for
explosions and background music which kills speech intelligibility for
anyone whose hearing is marginal using an aid.

Background noise on drama etc a totally different issue.

Subtitles if available make a big difference (as does some basic lip
reading training if the speaker on the TV is facing the camera).

My SIL needs those. Very distracting for others. I'd rather experiment
with headphones.

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Must be one of your famed amplifiers if it is generating sounds on
those frequencies from speech.

His point still stands though that for someone with hearing difficulties
you want something approximating the telephone line passband 300-3kHz
for the best chance of them understanding the spoken word.

TV programs do have a lot of high and low frequency components for
explosions and background music which kills speech intelligibility for
anyone whose hearing is marginal using an aid.

Subtitles if available make a big difference (as does some basic lip
reading training if the speaker on the TV is facing the camera).

its just plow**** being miserable again. Like all lefty****s he
believes he was cut out for something better and the Filthy capitalists
prevented him achieving it.

Good to see my comment struck home.

--
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Bill
writes
Not sure why he can't use the headphone or line out jack or what his TV
has.

Anyway, I've been persuaded to drive over and give a verdict tomorrow
before he returns it to the supplier.

So, re the Sony SRS-LSR100, I've been to look at it.

We got it working well, but he is going to try to send it back.

He is quite deaf, and suffers from tinnitus in the worst ear. His wife's
hearing is normal. His TV setup is basically as follows:

LG TV that just shows the pictures.

Panasonic thing that records, and receives pictures and audio from
satellite. The pictures go from the Panasonic to the TV via hdmi and the
audio from the Panasonic goes by toslink to the sound bar, which is the
preferred sound source that they always use.

If he turns on the TV sound and the soundbar sound, there is an echo.

With the setup as is, with just soundbar audio, there is a very slight
sync issue between the audio and the picture. This is small enough that
neither his wife or he had noticed it, but they agreed it was there once
pointed out. I just hope that, having seen this, it doesn't come to
annoy them.

Without any way of splitting the toslink feed from the Panasonic, we had
to take sound to the Sony device from the toslink output on the TV. This
output had a large delay - the echo noticed earlier between the TV and
the Panasonic audio. This made the whole setup unusable.

The decision was made to return the Sony because of this sync problem
and hope that the supplier will accept it back. It is likely that some
sort of toslink splitter might have solved this, but delivery of the one
he ordered at the same time as the Sony is predicted as being weeks
away.

My impression of the Sony SRS-LSR100 was that it did work well for its
intended main use in bringing sensibly contoured sound close to someone
with hearing difficulties and with a basic TV. Its remote control
features seem limited and he and I thought that having yet another
remote control was just a step too far.
It is very expensive.
We didn't manage to get the analogue audio input working, but that was
probably down to his general setup and exhaustion.
--
Bill

---
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On 06/09/2018 10:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

its just plow**** being miserable again. Like all lefty****s he believes
he was cut out for something better and the Filthy capitalists prevented
him achieving it.

Another irrelevant and left-bashing rant from The Natural Pillock.

Whereas I know I was cut out for something worse and only massive effort
prevented it.

Could have fooled the rest of us.

In article ,
Bill wrote:
Without any way of splitting the toslink feed from the Panasonic, we had
to take sound to the Sony device from the toslink output on the TV. This
output had a large delay - the echo noticed earlier between the TV and
the Panasonic audio. This made the whole setup unusable.

The TV set itself should compensate for any delays. Provided both sound
and vision from an external source like a PVR are fed through it. Taking
the sound direct from the PVR etc is likely to introduce a sync error.

A sound bar should be exactly in sync with the built in TV speakers.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if some ain't.

BTW, two TVs showing the same prog can be out of sync.

--
*Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2018-09-04 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her. She
tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV sound
into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very successful.
She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about a sound bar or
computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

Bill

A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

2p

On 07/09/2018 08:14, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-04 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her. She
tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV sound
into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very
successful. She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about a
sound bar or computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

--
Max Demian

On 07/09/2018 10:46, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/09/2018 08:14, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-04 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her.
She tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV
sound into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very
successful. She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about
a sound bar or computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

Oh, and what happens to the sound from the TV speakers that other people
in the room will be using? Can they really avoid the echo effect with
the Bluetooth speaker, especially as the latency would be partly
determined by the speaker?

(Personally I favour FM or UHF for wireless subsidiary sound as there is
no latency (apart from the speed of light and sound).)

--
Max Demian

On 07/09/18 10:46, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/09/2018 08:14, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-04 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her.
She tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV
sound into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very
successful. She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about
a sound bar or computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

I think it is imnportant to understand that HDMI inputs to a TV will
result in delayed sound *and* vision.

The ONLY way to get audio in sync is to take it FROM the TV sound
output. Not 'before it goes in'



--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On Thursday, 6 September 2018 16:36:00 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill wrote:
Without any way of splitting the toslink feed from the Panasonic, we had
to take sound to the Sony device from the toslink output on the TV. This
output had a large delay - the echo noticed earlier between the TV and
the Panasonic audio. This made the whole setup unusable.

The TV set itself should compensate for any delays. Provided both sound
and vision from an external source like a PVR are fed through it. Taking
the sound direct from the PVR etc is likely to introduce a sync error.

A sound bar should be exactly in sync with the built in TV speakers.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if some ain't.

BTW, two TVs showing the same prog can be out of sync.

Has anyone noticed that the SD & HD channels are out of sync by about 3-4 words.
when I change channels from SD to HD I seem to hear the same 4 words I heard on SD being repeated when I switch to HD.

I get the same here too, I keep getting your **** has been shovled were it belongs, and you couldn't lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

But I've narrowed it down to a nut lose on the keyboard, a few 1000s of miles away so I can't really do much about it.

On 07/09/2018 11:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/18 10:46, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/09/2018 08:14, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-04 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen
telly with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for
her. She tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed
the TV sound into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't
very successful. She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering
about a sound bar or computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth
is activated, to ensure lip-sync?

I think it is imnportant to understand that HDMI inputs to a TV will
result in delayed sound *and* vision.

The ONLY way to get audio in sync is to take it FROM the TV sound
output. Not 'before it goes in'

Err.. Who mentioned HDMI (or any) *inputs* to the TV?

--
Max Demian

On 07/09/18 11:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/09/2018 11:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/18 10:46, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/09/2018 08:14, WeeBob wrote:
On 2018-09-04 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all
that deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish
flatscreen telly with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I
can do for her. She tried a gadget she got from RNID that is
supposed to feed the TV sound into the hearing aid when it is set
to T, but it wasn't very successful. She doesn't want to wear
headphones. I'm wondering about a sound bar or computer speakers or
whatever. Ideas anyone?

A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a
tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap
speakers out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth
is activated, to ensure lip-sync?

I think it is imnportant to understand that HDMI inputs to a TV will
result in delayed sound *and* vision.

The ONLY way to get audio in sync is to take it FROM the TV sound
output. Not 'before it goes in'

Err.. Who mentioned HDMI (or any) *inputs* to the TV?


At some pint someonemen tioned taling sound from an STB and that was
'out of sync' with the TV picture...



--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 06/09/18 10:00, DerbyBorn wrote:
Are the "tone" controls set to suit her hearing? Does she need the Treble
turned up and the Bass down? ?Many people apply the wrong instinct on this
and turn up the Bass

As I pointed out before hearing aids should be providing the optimum
correction for this already. The only thing left to correct would be
the frequency response of the TV itself.

On 06/09/18 08:49, Martin Brown wrote:
His point still stands though that for someone with hearing difficulties
you want something approximating the telephone line passband 300-3kHz
for the best chance of them understanding the spoken word.

Digital hearing aids will limit you to something like this, anyway,
although some more up market newer ones have wider ranges.

(Those for age related mild to moderate losses tend to have an acousitc
bypass for lower frequencies, but the person in question is supposedly
relatively young, and may not have typical deafness.)

On 07/09/18 08:14, WeeBob wrote:
A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

As already mentioned, there are bluetooth adaptors for most modern
hearing aids, even NHS. If you use their TV adaptor, you may find that
use a non-standard bluetooth profile, with less latency.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/18 11:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/09/2018 11:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/18 10:46, Max Demian wrote:
I think it is imnportant to understand that HDMI inputs to a TV will
result in delayed sound *and* vision.

The ONLY way to get audio in sync is to take it FROM the TV sound
output. Not 'before it goes in'
Err.. Who mentioned HDMI (or any) *inputs* to the TV?


At some pint someonemen tioned taling sound from an STB and that was
'out of sync' with the TV picture...

That was me, having investigated the setup at a not-slightly deaf
friend's house.

He and his wife watch the TV, with the sound coming to a sound bar via
toslink from the "STB", The pictures are via hdmi from the STB to the
TV.

There is a slight sync problem between the sound and picture, which
neither he or his wife had noticed. This setup has been in use for some
time.
If the TV sound is turned up, there is a very objectionable echo between
it and the sound bar. I am not clear why the sync difference is more
noticeable between sounds than between picture and sound. I didn't have
time to really go into this, as I was there to help him decide whether
to return the Sony device. He has, and he got his money back.

They both like the sound from the sound bar much more than the more
bassy sound from the rear-facing speakers on the TV. There seemed
little point in trying to convince him to take the toslink sound from
the TV to the Sony because his wife didn't like the TV sound, and he
thought the TV sound to the Sony device would be as bad as the TV sound
to the TV speakers.

I could have tried to get him to test it and show that he might be
wrong, but it would have meant a lot of shouting, or facing him for lip
reading.

In this case, at least, this shows that there is more to helping people
with impaired hearing that just the technical factors.
--


Bill

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On 07/09/2018 14:09, David Woolley wrote:
On 06/09/18 08:49, Martin Brown wrote:
His point still stands though that for someone with hearing
difficulties you want something approximating the telephone line
passband 300-3kHz for the best chance of them understanding the spoken
word.

Digital hearing aids will limitÂ* you to something like this, anyway,
although some more up market newer ones have wider ranges.

(Those for age related mild to moderate losses tend to have an acousitc
bypass for lower frequencies, but the person in question is supposedly
relatively young, and may not have typical deafness.)

She's 66. Her deafness started when she had an ear infection when she
was five. She hears midrange but very little bottom and reduced top.

Bill

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

Err, why not simply plug headphones into the headphone socket? Why make
things complicated?

--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the SD & HD channels are out of sync by about
3-4 words. when I change channels from SD to HD I seem to hear the same
4 words I heard on SD being repeated when I switch to HD.

Yes. Remember HD and SD are effectively very different channels in the way
they arrive at a transmitter. One reason why you don't get local London
news on HD.

--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 7 September 2018 15:31:11 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
A bluetooth audio transmitter in the back of the TV and a bluetooth
receiver close to where she sits.

The transmitter should be cheapish, lots on ebay for less than a tenner.

The receiver could be a mobile phone. Or again lots of cheap speakers
out there.

Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

Err, why not simply plug headphones into the headphone socket? Why make
things complicated?

I said similar to my dad but it did mean either a 15 metre cable around the room or a shorter 3 metre cable across the floor which anyone else had to step over and made a good toy for the cats.
In the end he brought a pair of TV ears.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TV-11641-Tr...dp/B01LZ0EVRW/

He liked them so much he brought 2 incase one pair went wrong.

It solved the problem, he never mentioned any synching problems but I doubt he'd have noticed anyway unless it was really bad.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

Err, why not simply plug headphones into the headphone socket? Why make
things complicated?

I said similar to my dad but it did mean either a 15 metre cable around
the room or a shorter 3 metre cable across the floor which anyone else
had to step over and made a good toy for the cats. In the end he brought
a pair of TV ears.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TV-11641-Tr...dp/B01LZ0EVRW/

He liked them so much he brought 2 incase one pair went wrong.

It solved the problem, he never mentioned any synching problems but I
doubt he'd have noticed anyway unless it was really bad.

No reason why a delay free analogue wireless link shouldn't be OK over
such a short distance.

--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/09/2018 14:41, Bill Wright wrote:
I have a friend who struggles to hear the telly. She is not all that
deaf but has a deaf aid. At present she has a newish flatscreen telly
with very poor sound quality. I'm wondering what I can do for her. She
tried a gadget she got from RNID that is supposed to feed the TV sound
into the hearing aid when it is set to T, but it wasn't very successful.
She doesn't want to wear headphones. I'm wondering about a sound bar or
computer speakers or whatever. Ideas anyone?

Bill

Mount a pair of speakers on, to or near her listening chair.
Decide if they are best driven off the TV or via a suitable amplifier
and volume control.

--
Blow my nose to email me

On 05/09/2018 17:15, newshound wrote:
On 05/09/2018 08:16, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/09/2018 00:21, Bill Wright wrote:

As a quick test jerry rig a pair of PC speakers either side of her
favourite chair might be worth a try but don't expect miracles. Even
better if you can run the sound through a PC with a digital filtering
program to let you adjust the response until she finds speech clear.

+1

Audacity is a very powerful free program and has an equalisation tool.
Alternatively you could use GarageBand, if you have a Mac.

As I am now reliant on hearing aids, I have experimented with this and
come up with the following:

I tried plugging a small bluetooth tx into the tv powered from its USB
socket (Sony Bravia tv), but even those that claim low latency were
useless as there was still an annoying delay.

I now have a small stereo FM tx powered in the same way with no audio
delay(!), which is received on the FM receiver on my old LG smartphone
(3 years old). The output goes to the audio line input of my hearing aid
remote control which can adjust levels independently.

The smartphone has equalisation settings, but I have an equaliser app -
of which there are many - and this gives fairly reasonable sound. For
music the hearing aids are discarded and replaced with Sennheiser
headphones.
--

Chris

On Friday, 7 September 2018 19:19:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. Does the TV delay the vision when Bluetooth is
activated, to ensure lip-sync?

Err, why not simply plug headphones into the headphone socket? Why make
things complicated?

I said similar to my dad but it did mean either a 15 metre cable around
the room or a shorter 3 metre cable across the floor which anyone else
had to step over and made a good toy for the cats. In the end he brought
a pair of TV ears.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TV-11641-Tr...dp/B01LZ0EVRW/

He liked them so much he brought 2 incase one pair went wrong.

It solved the problem, he never mentioned any synching problems but I
doubt he'd have noticed anyway unless it was really bad.

No reason why a delay free analogue wireless link shouldn't be OK over
such a short distance.

but it can't be delay free unless scotty from the Enterprise was involved.
It does take a time to take the signal from the TVs output then convert in to modualed IR then decode that signal back in to audio.

On 06/09/2018 10:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/09/18 08:49, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/09/2018 19:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Top of te range hifi is in fact exactly the wriong choice for someone
with heraing difficulties. The top 4 octaves are wasted, and the bottom
4 just muddy the waters.

Must be one of your famed amplifiers if it is generating sounds on those
frequencies from speech.

His point still stands though that for someone with hearing
difficulties you want something approximating the telephone line
passband 300-3kHz for the best chance of them understanding the spoken
word.

TV programs do have a lot of high and low frequency components for
explosions and background music which kills speech intelligibility for
anyone whose hearing is marginal using an aid.


Moving on to audio, a late deafish friend said that the problem was
internal ear intermodulation distortion. The world as heard through a
fuzz box so to speak.


The less frequencies there were - particularly from different sources -
the easier it was.


Hnece te real problem of hearing with high background noise. My BIL
can't follow TV with lots of people talking.


My ex wifes hearing curves were salutary. started to roll off around
600hz and by the time it was 4KHz there as NOTHING left. 90dB down or more.

So 300hz-3Khz is ahere it's at at best. The bass sounds can be heard but
reduce intelligibility.



Now that is interesting on two counts. Firstly my hearing aids do some
'down-conversion' but I'm not sure what frequencies are involved. In
order to 'improve' intelligibility some frequencies above my hearing
range get moved down into my passband. But I definitely notice a problem
with music, with a significant amount out of tune.

Secondly, no matter what I listen on, there is a muddy mid-section where
a music band or group of singers sound distorted, just like the old
problem of harmonic distortion. Any clear sounds such as soloists, or
single instruments are fine. So that might support what your friend
says, and also might explain what I hear.
--

Chris

"Chris Youlden" wrote in message
...

Secondly, no matter what I listen on, there is a muddy mid-section where a
music band or group of singers sound distorted, just like the old problem
of harmonic distortion. Any clear sounds such as soloists, or single
instruments are fine. So that might support what your friend says, and
also might explain what I hear.

What is the sort of distortion that you often hear on the soundtracks of old
films from the 1940s and 50s - it has a sort of raspy, fuzzy character to
it. Is that intermodulation distortion? Was it caused by poor amplifiers in
the production chain, or is it an artefact of (analogue) optical film
soundtracks and/or dirt and scratches on the soundtrack.

On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:21:04 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Chris Youlden" wrote in message
...

Secondly, no matter what I listen on, there is a muddy mid-section where a
music band or group of singers sound distorted, just like the old problem
of harmonic distortion. Any clear sounds such as soloists, or single
instruments are fine. So that might support what your friend says, and
also might explain what I hear.

What is the sort of distortion that you often hear on the soundtracks of old
films from the 1940s and 50s - it has a sort of raspy, fuzzy character to
it. Is that intermodulation distortion? Was it caused by poor amplifiers in
the production chain, or is it an artefact of (analogue) optical film
soundtracks and/or dirt and scratches on the soundtrack.

Dirt & scratches cause click & pop, or in extreme cases sound dropout.
There are 2 types of old film soundtrack, variable width & variable density.. The latter is a relatively cheap process with nonlinear and thus grotty sound. And the equipment of the 40s was not exactly stellar - I've used it. Some was good but a fair bit wasn't.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
What is the sort of distortion that you often hear on the soundtracks
of old films from the 1940s and 50s - it has a sort of raspy, fuzzy
character to it. Is that intermodulation distortion? Was it caused by
poor amplifiers in the production chain, or is it an artefact of
(analogue) optical film soundtracks and/or dirt and scratches on the
soundtrack.

Dirt & scratches cause click & pop, or in extreme cases sound dropout.
There are 2 types of old film soundtrack, variable width & variable
density. The latter is a relatively cheap process with nonlinear and
thus grotty sound. And the equipment of the 40s was not exactly stellar
- I've used it. Some was good but a fair bit wasn't.

Of course digital is a great success with optical film, as using that for
the sound gets rid of all the analogue problems. And allows multiple
tracks.

Interestingly when I worked for Thames TV in the 80s, they were developing
a way of recording digital audio and video to 16mm B&W film stock. As a
way of archiving material for a long life. Initial results were *very*
impressive - but not sure what happened after Thames lost their franchise.
Carlton TV who got that franchise weren't interested in doing that sort of
research. Or even making TV, come to that. Just a nice reward for large
contributions to the Tories.

--
*Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 12 September 2018 19:37:03 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
What is the sort of distortion that you often hear on the soundtracks
of old films from the 1940s and 50s - it has a sort of raspy, fuzzy
character to it. Is that intermodulation distortion? Was it caused by
poor amplifiers in the production chain, or is it an artefact of
(analogue) optical film soundtracks and/or dirt and scratches on the
soundtrack.

Dirt & scratches cause click & pop, or in extreme cases sound dropout.
There are 2 types of old film soundtrack, variable width & variable
density. The latter is a relatively cheap process with nonlinear and
thus grotty sound. And the equipment of the 40s was not exactly stellar
- I've used it. Some was good but a fair bit wasn't.

Of course digital is a great success with optical film,

IS it, what is optical film ?


as using that for
the sound gets rid of all the analogue problems. And allows multiple
tracks.

I thought they started using VCRs and tape, tape backups are still used.


Interestingly when I worked for Thames TV in the 80s, they were developing
a way of recording digital audio and video to 16mm B&W film stock. As a
way of archiving material for a long life. Initial results were *very*
impressive - but not sure what happened after Thames lost their franchise.

I think better ways were found such as using CD's and other optical media rather than film.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
as using that for
the sound gets rid of all the analogue problems. And allows multiple
tracks.

I thought they started using VCRs and tape, tape backups are still used.

The was a time in the cinema were Dolby optical sound ruled. Before most
went over to electronic projection.

--
*There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.