Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Friday, 31 August 2018 22:33:22 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Well, that was a first.
The damn thing has been nailed up.

Sorry, that might have been me in an earlier life :-)

Owain

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.


What size rose?
Redoing the lounge ceiling here has long been scheduled for this Autumn but
in the spring I replaced a light fitting that did not work too well with CF
and LED lamps for one that could and encountered similar issues .
The plaster generally stayed up but several former mounting holes from
previous fittings obscured by the removed light revealed. Couldnt live
with that all summer and wasnt ready to bring the ceiling job forward I
obtained one of those large diameter plaster roses very similar to this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plaster-Cei.../dp/B0147B8HXY
Though I got mine locally.
Couple of dabs of Sticks like Sh*t and the holes and were covered and I was
able to mount the new fitting onto the rose using plaster board plugs.
It actually looks quite reasonable and as it has proved secure enough to
last the Summer it will stay there when the ceiling gets its renovation.
A job which moved a bit closer yesterday when Lidl got some telescopic
sanders in.
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-O...rticleId=15722

Of course your rose may have been one of that size already.

GH

On 31/08/2018 23:36, Marland wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.


What size rose?
Redoing the lounge ceiling here has long been scheduled for this Autumn but
in the spring I replaced a light fitting that did not work too well with CF
and LED lamps for one that could and encountered similar issues .
The plaster generally stayed up but several former mounting holes from
previous fittings obscured by the removed light revealed. Couldnt live
with that all summer and wasnt ready to bring the ceiling job forward I
obtained one of those large diameter plaster roses very similar to this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plaster-Cei.../dp/B0147B8HXY
Though I got mine locally.
Couple of dabs of Sticks like Sh*t and the holes and were covered and I was
able to mount the new fitting onto the rose using plaster board plugs.
It actually looks quite reasonable and as it has proved secure enough to
last the Summer it will stay there when the ceiling gets its renovation.
A job which moved a bit closer yesterday when Lidl got some telescopic
sanders in.
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-O...rticleId=15722

Of course your rose may have been one of that size already.

GH



Just the thing for removing pre-1984 artex then :-)

On 01/09/2018 13:16, Andrew wrote:
On 31/08/2018 23:36, Marland wrote:
Â* Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.


What size rose?
Redoing the lounge ceiling here has long been scheduled for this
Autumn but
in the spring I replaced a light fitting that did not work too well
with CF
and LED lamps for one that could and encountered similar issues .
The plaster generally stayed up but several former mounting holes from
previous fittings obscured by the removed light revealed.Â* Couldnt live
with that all summer and wasnt ready to bring the ceiling job forward I
obtained one of those large diameter plaster roses very similar to
this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plaster-Cei.../dp/B0147B8HXY

Though I got mine locally.
Couple of dabs of Sticks like Sh*t and the holes and were covered and
I was
able to mount the new fitting onto the rose using plaster board plugs.
It actually looks quite reasonable and as it has proved secure enough to
last the Summer it will stay there when the ceiling gets its renovation.
A job which moved a bit closer yesterday when Lidl got some telescopic
sanders in.
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-O...rticleId=15722

Of course your rose may have been one of that size already.

GH



Just the thing for removing pre-1984 artex then :-)

Depends if the artex has been tested, but this could apply up to the
year 2000 stuff.

--
Adam

Yes seen that, nail gun used with glued nails with serrated shanks. The one
I saw had some kind of rubber washers under the nail heads. This must be the
way things are done nowadays, as this was a new build.
I think we are obviously getting past it, sigh. Its actually more obvious
when you cannot see in fact.

Actually, I would not be surprised if they start gluing them up next.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 01/09/2018 09:05, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes seen that, nail gun used with glued nails with serrated shanks. The one
I saw had some kind of rubber washers under the nail heads. This must be the
way things are done nowadays, as this was a new build.
I think we are obviously getting past it, sigh. Its actually more obvious
when you cannot see in fact.

Actually, I would not be surprised if they start gluing them up next.
Brian


Downlighters don't need to be fixed, just a hole of the correct size :-)

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

no horse hair plaster ? ...shocking

On 31/08/18 22:33, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

You too huh?

In my case it was wher the overflowing bath upstairs founds it's way
out...the spotlight hole..


--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news
Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

I reckon it takes the same sort of stupidity to nail a ceiling rose to the
ceiling as it does to glue (as well as screw) floorboards in the loft onto
the joists. When a rat died in our loft, I needed to lift boards to get at
it. I unscrewed on at one end (so if the boards had been tongue-and-grooved,
one edge would lift) and it did not budge even slightly. I can only assume
all the boards were glued to the joists... Pillocks!

(Luckily the rat died *just* within arm's length of the open edge of the
boarding near the eaves, so I was able to reach in with a plastic bag over
my hand. If it had died another inch or so further away, I'd have been
buggered unless I could have made some sort of scoop on a long pole - and
then found a way of getting that long pole under the boarding with limited
space between eaves and boarding.)

On Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:39:42 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news

Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

I reckon it takes the same sort of stupidity to nail a ceiling rose to the
ceiling as it does to glue (as well as screw) floorboards in the loft onto
the joists. When a rat died in our loft, I needed to lift boards to get at
it. I unscrewed on at one end (so if the boards had been tongue-and-grooved,
one edge would lift) and it did not budge even slightly. I can only assume
all the boards were glued to the joists... Pillocks!

I take it you're not a structural engineer.

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:39:42 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news

Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

I reckon it takes the same sort of stupidity to nail a ceiling rose to
the
ceiling as it does to glue (as well as screw) floorboards in the loft
onto
the joists. When a rat died in our loft, I needed to lift boards to get
at
it. I unscrewed on at one end (so if the boards had been
tongue-and-grooved,
one edge would lift) and it did not budge even slightly. I can only
assume
all the boards were glued to the joists... Pillocks!

I take it you're not a structural engineer.

Are you saying that if the floorboards are fastened to the joists, that
makes the whole structure more rigid and able to withstand people walking
across the joists?

That is probably true, but why should gluing be better than just copious use
of screws? Every board was fastened to all the joists it crossed, as well as
at various places at the start and end joist, by long screws (*). I made the
mistake of thinking that visible screws were the *only* means of fastening
:-(


In my book, anything that is fastened to something should be done so in such
as way that it can be *un*fastened if the need arises - eg a rat that
expires and rots in the space between floorboards, plasterboard ceiling and
joists.


(*) Most were nicely countersunk. I discovered one that was not when I
walked over the boards in bare feet (well, socks but not shoes) and ripped
my heel on it even though the head was only just proud of the board :-(

On Sunday, 2 September 2018 22:09:14 UTC+1, NY wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:39:42 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news

Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

I reckon it takes the same sort of stupidity to nail a ceiling rose to
the
ceiling as it does to glue (as well as screw) floorboards in the loft
onto
the joists. When a rat died in our loft, I needed to lift boards to get
at
it. I unscrewed on at one end (so if the boards had been
tongue-and-grooved,
one edge would lift) and it did not budge even slightly. I can only
assume
all the boards were glued to the joists... Pillocks!

I take it you're not a structural engineer.

Are you saying that if the floorboards are fastened to the joists, that
makes the whole structure more rigid and able to withstand people walking
across the joists?

That is probably true, but why should gluing be better than just copious use
of screws? Every board was fastened to all the joists it crossed, as well as
at various places at the start and end joist, by long screws (*). I made the
mistake of thinking that visible screws were the *only* means of fastening
:-(


In my book, anything that is fastened to something should be done so in such
as way that it can be *un*fastened if the need arises - eg a rat that
expires and rots in the space between floorboards, plasterboard ceiling and
joists.


(*) Most were nicely countersunk. I discovered one that was not when I
walked over the boards in bare feet (well, socks but not shoes) and ripped
my heel on it even though the head was only just proud of the board :-(

it's a standard way to strengthen timber floor structures.


NT

wrote in message
...
I reckon it takes the same sort of stupidity to nail a ceiling rose to
the
ceiling as it does to glue (as well as screw) floorboards in the loft
onto
the joists. When a rat died in our loft, I needed to lift boards to
get
at
it. I unscrewed on at one end (so if the boards had been
tongue-and-grooved,
one edge would lift) and it did not budge even slightly. I can only
assume
all the boards were glued to the joists... Pillocks!

I take it you're not a structural engineer.

it's a standard way to strengthen timber floor structures.

As a matter of interest, what is the "standard way" of accessing the space
between the chipboard floorboards and the plasterboard of the ceiling below,
if any wiring needs to be renewed or dead rats need to be removed? Do they
drill holes to get a jigsaw in, cut an access hole and then find a way of
fastening it in afterwards - eg by fastening a batten to the underside of
the cut-out piece and then screwing it to the boarding either side of the
hole? And what about if a house had to be totally rewired, as is recommended
every few decades - that would be a lot of access holes.

I presume if it is standard practice there must be a good reason for it -
evidently it must be stronger/stiffer than a load of screws between boarding
and joists which would allow easy access for any maintenance.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 2 September 2018 20:39:42 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news

Well, that was a first.
Tried to remove a ceiling rose, and screwdriver wouldn't engage
with the second screw. It's too dim to see in the recess, but
eventually use the torch on the mobile - no slot. The damn thing
has been nailed up. By the time I've managed to lever it off,
the ceiling rose is in several pieces, and there's a hole in the
lath and plaster ceiling twice the size of the ceiling rose, sigh.

I reckon it takes the same sort of stupidity to nail a ceiling rose to
the
ceiling as it does to glue (as well as screw) floorboards in the loft
onto
the joists. When a rat died in our loft, I needed to lift boards to get
at
it. I unscrewed on at one end (so if the boards had been
tongue-and-grooved,
one edge would lift) and it did not budge even slightly. I can only
assume
all the boards were glued to the joists... Pillocks!

I take it you're not a structural engineer.

Are you saying that if the floorboards are fastened to the joists, that
makes the whole structure more rigid and able to withstand people walking
across the joists?

That is probably true, but why should gluing be better than just copious
use of screws? Every board was fastened to all the joists it crossed, as
well as at various places at the start and end joist, by long screws (*).
I made the mistake of thinking that visible screws were the *only* means
of fastening :-(

In my book, anything that is fastened to something should be done so in
such as way that it can be *un*fastened if the need arises

I dont agree with some stuff. My steel roof beams are welded
to the 5x3" RHS that runs along the tops of the longest EW walls.

- eg a rat that expires and rots in the space between floorboards,
plasterboard ceiling and joists.

In my case the metal decking flat roof is very easy to get
off if there is any need to get something like a dead rat
or cat out of the roof space. Its only about 15" deep at
the deepest, so there is no human access possible.

But the concrete floor has to be broken up for access
to a copper pipe that has developed a pin hole leak.
I hate wood floors with a passion and wouldnt have one.

(*) Most were nicely countersunk. I discovered one that was not when I
walked over the boards in bare feet (well, socks but not shoes) and ripped
my heel on it even though the head was only just proud of the board :-(

On Monday, 3 September 2018 01:11:19 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

But the concrete floor has to be broken up for access
to a copper pipe that has developed a pin hole leak.
I hate wood floors with a passion and wouldnt have one.

almost every UK house has them. We don't have termites

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
But the concrete floor has to be broken up for access
to a copper pipe that has developed a pin hole leak.

I remember when a carpet fitter came to fit a new carpet at my parents'
house, he accidentally drove a nail through the main water supply to the
house *before* the indoor stop tap, as he was fastening gripper rod to the
concrete floor. The first we noticed was a damp patch on the carpet a few
hours later. Carpet fitter came back, accompanied by a plumber. They worked
for ages, well into the night, gouging out the concrete along the line of
where they presumed the pipe went, and had to expose about 10 feet of pipe
to get enough room to saw out the affected bit of pipe and insert a new
length with solder joints at either end. It took them ages to even find the
main stop tap in the road, or even to work out that it still leaked after
the indoor tap was turned off and therefore it was upstream of that... That
pipe was only about 10 mm below the top surface of the concrete floor, so it
was very vulnerable.

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 10:04:53 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


I don¢t agree with some stuff.

Oh, that's a new one! LOL

FLUSH the rest of your usual troll ****

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: