I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the
bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the
timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess
these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the
bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the
timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess
these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with a
circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with a
circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure, which
it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut a sort
of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw, then
cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached and
providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm, perhaps
I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and fix it to
the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

On 24/07/2018 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side
- at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with a
circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure, which
it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut a sort
of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw, then
cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached and
providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm, perhaps
I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and fix it to
the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

I was assuming you have a circ saw with a 3 inch cut, that lets you cut
a lap either 6 inches wide and 1.5 inches deep, or 3 inches wide and 3
inches deep although I would do the longitudinal cut from both sides in
each case. The devil is in the detail of access and how much support
remains from the rotten bit. As you say, temporary supports are another
option.

The alternative butt joint that you describe will not be very strong in
bending. If one (or two) sides of the shed are supported against a wall
then this could provide bracing against wind loads so that the uprights
are just in compression.

On 24/07/2018 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side
- at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with a
circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure, which
it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut a sort
of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw, then
cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached and
providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm, perhaps
I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and fix it to
the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Sounds like a job for a multitool.

On 24/07/2018 17:20, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each
side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few
mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with
a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut
a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw,
then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached
and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm,
perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and
fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Sounds like a job for a multitool.

A bit slow, on 6 x 3.

On 24/07/18 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side
- at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with a
circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure, which
it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut a sort
of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw, then
cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached and
providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm, perhaps
I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and fix it to
the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Dont even startt. Do waht I did. Enormous tub of car body filler moulded
to upright shape...use bit of timeber to bulk it if you must.



--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

In message ,
writes
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

Bit of care with a decent handsaw? 3" with a jigsaw is tricky.

I would strengthen by screwing on some 25x50mm folded galvanised steel
(because I have some:-) but 1"x2" angle would do. Use two lengths per
join.

Alternatively the agricultural approach... butt join and then strengthen
by nailing on 3"x2" either side:-)

--
Tim Lamb

On 24/07/2018 17:14, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each
side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few
mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with
a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut
a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw,
then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached
and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm,
perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and
fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

I was assuming you have a circ saw with a 3 inch cut, that lets you cut
a lap either 6 inches wide and 1.5 inches deep, or 3 inches wide and 3
inches deep although I would do the longitudinal cut from both sides in
each case. The devil is in the detail of access and how much support
remains from the rotten bit. As you say, temporary supports are another
option.
The circ saw might not manage 3" depth but I was talking about using
1.5" cross cuts (like a narrow dado cutter) to create a half housing and
avoid having to try to cut vertically up a waggling piece of wood with a
hand saw.

The alternative butt joint that you describe will not be very strong in
bending. If one (or two) sides of the shed are supported against a wall
then this could provide bracing against wind loads so that the uprights
are just in compression.
It's not the preferred solution, but should be OK if I can find long
galvanized plates to sandwich the joint.

On 24/07/2018 17:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/18 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each
side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few
mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with
a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut
a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ saw,
then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still attached
and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the end. Hmm,
perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber over the rot and
fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Dont even startt. Do waht I did. Enormous tub of car body filler moulded
to upright shape...use bit of timeber to bulk it if you must.



Thanks, but I'd like some strength in the post, rather than just having
it look OK

On 24/07/2018 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , writes
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

Bit of care with a decent handsaw? 3" with a jigsaw is tricky.
Trying to do this with a jigsaw would be more than tricky - a waste of time!

I would strengthen by screwing on some 25x50mm folded galvanised steel
(because I have some:-) but 1"x2" angle would do. Use two lengths per join.

Alternatively the agricultural approach... butt join and then strengthen
by nailing on 3"x2" either side:-)

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , writes
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the bottom
end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the timber and
add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess these would be
around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit of
timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable steel
plates.

Bit of care with a decent handsaw? 3" with a jigsaw is tricky.

I would strengthen by screwing on some 25x50mm folded galvanised steel
(because I have some:-) but 1"x2" angle would do. Use two lengths per
join.

Alternatively the agricultural approach... butt join and then strengthen
by nailing on 3"x2" either side:-)

Makes more sense to replace it entirely and use an acrow prop to keep
the roof up while replacing it.

On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:

I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the
bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the
timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess
these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A scarf joint would be easiest - just a long straight cut on the
diagonal with a handsaw - match the same angle on the new bit, then glue
up and screw through the face into the joint a couple of times.

If you want a half lap, then as you said - repeated cuts every few mm
with a circular saw, then knock out the waste, and plane/chisel flat.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/07/18 18:58, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 17:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/18 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each
side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few
mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with
a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach
bolts through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut
a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ
saw, then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still
attached and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the
end. Hmm, perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber over
the rot and fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Dont even startt. Do waht I did. Enormous tub of car body filler
moulded to upright shape...use bit of timeber to bulk it if you must.



Thanks, but I'd like some strength in the post, rather than just having
it look OK


Oh FFS its STRONGER than wood!




--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

On 24/07/2018 17:26, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 17:20, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each
side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few
mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with
a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach
bolts through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could cut
a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a circ
saw, then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is still
attached and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off the
end. Hmm, perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber over
the rot and fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Sounds like a job for a multitool.

A bit slow, on 6 x 3.

also getting the 3" depth of cut could be tricky - you would have to
plunge from both sides.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 15:16:01 UTC+1, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the
bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the
timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess
these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

When sideways displacement is acceptable, just overlapping new & old wood & putting many screws in works. When it's not, a butt join with timber pieces in lieu of fish plates is pretty easy to do.


NT

On 24/07/2018 23:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 17:26, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 17:20, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want
to splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent
lap joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm
tempted to butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish
plates?) on each side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide
450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint
with a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put
coach bolts through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could
cut a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a
circ saw, then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is
still attached and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off
the end. Hmm, perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber
over the rot and fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Sounds like a job for a multitool.

A bit slow, on 6 x 3.

also getting the 3" depth of cut could be tricky - you would have to
plunge from both sides.


To make a lap joint you can take a quarter out first and then take the
next quarter out. Assuming you have access to one corner and most of one
6" face.
Its easy with a multitool if a bit slow. You need less access than with
a circular saw or a hand saw.

Maybe one of those little chain saws in the other thread would do it better?

On 24/07/2018 21:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:

I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A scarf joint would be easiest - just a long straight cut on the
diagonal with a handsaw - match the same angle on the new bit, then glue
up and screw through the face into the joint a couple of times.

If you want a half lap, then as you said - repeated cuts every few mm
with a circular saw, then knock out the waste, and plane/chisel flat.


I'd discounted a scarf joint because it's dependent on the glue and
screws to resist the shear force, whereas if I shim the ends of the lap
joint then I've got half the thickness supporting the load, as well as
the glue and screws.

I'd like to use angle brackets on the bottom of shed uprights due to the rot
issue too. I guess in my case finding suitable long brackets is going to be
reasonably easy, but I sure as hell am not sitting on the floor in a shed in
81 degree f heat!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the bottom
end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the timber and add
steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess these would be around
150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit of
timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable steel
plates.

The other way of course is to get some of thus Arris rail extender brackets,
cut the wing bits off and use the angled piece on the timber join.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"newshound" wrote in message
news
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub block
wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to splice-in
some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint in the
bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join the
timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a guess
these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit of
timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable steel
plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint with a
circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put coach bolts
through it.

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 09:44:15 UTC+1, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 21:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:

I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A scarf joint would be easiest - just a long straight cut on the
diagonal with a handsaw - match the same angle on the new bit, then glue
up and screw through the face into the joint a couple of times.

If you want a half lap, then as you said - repeated cuts every few mm
with a circular saw, then knock out the waste, and plane/chisel flat.


I'd discounted a scarf joint because it's dependent on the glue and
screws to resist the shear force, whereas if I shim the ends of the lap
joint then I've got half the thickness supporting the load, as well as
the glue and screws.

it is, but you can get plenty of strength from glue & screws if done well.


NT

On 25/07/2018 09:44, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 21:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:

I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side
- at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A scarf joint would be easiest - just a long straight cut on the
diagonal with a handsaw - match the same angle on the new bit, then
glue up and screw through the face into the joint a couple of times.

If you want a half lap, then as you said - repeated cuts every few mm
with a circular saw, then knock out the waste, and plane/chisel flat.


I'd discounted a scarf joint because it's dependent on the glue and
screws to resist the shear force,

The glue alone will be stronger than the wood itself. The purpose of the
joint is to give a large long grain contact area for the glue.

whereas if I shim the ends of the lap
joint then I've got half the thickness supporting the load, as well as
the glue and screws.

Nothing wrong with a lap either - but both will do the job just fine.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 24/07/2018 18:57, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 17:14, newshound wrote:


I was assuming you have a circ saw with a 3 inch cut, that lets you
cut a lap either 6 inches wide and 1.5 inches deep, or 3 inches wide
and 3 inches deep although I would do the longitudinal cut from both
sides in each case. The devil is in the detail of access and how much
support remains from the rotten bit. As you say, temporary supports
are another option.
The circ saw might not manage 3" depth but I was talking about using
1.5" cross cuts (like a narrow dado cutter) to create a half housing and
avoid having to try to cut vertically up a waggling piece of wood with a
hand saw.

Understood, that would work and not be too slow. The little slices of
wood left behind should snap off near the base, leaving not too much
cleaning up to do with a chisel. You could also clean up with a sanding
disk in an angle grinder.


The alternative butt joint that you describe will not be very strong
in bending. If one (or two) sides of the shed are supported against a
wall then this could provide bracing against wind loads so that the
uprights are just in compression.
It's not the preferred solution, but should be OK if I can find long
galvanized plates to sandwich the joint.


How visible is it going to be? Another option might be to run a length
of dexion up each corner. Maybe 15 inches long, held in place with
suitable coach screws. Does it really have to be galvanized?

On 24/07/2018 22:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/18 18:58, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 17:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/07/18 16:42, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 16:08, newshound wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want
to splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent
lap joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm
tempted to butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish
plates?) on each side - at a guess these would be around 150 wide
450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

A bit fiddly, but can't you make the basic cuts for a lap joint
with a circular saw? And square off with a panel saw. Then put
coach bolts through it.

Tough to do with the timber hanging down from the roof structure,
which it will be once I saw off the rotten bit. I suppose I could
cut a sort of half lap joint (zillions of half-depth cuts with a
circ saw, then cleaned-up with a chisel) while the rotten bit is
still attached and providing a little bit of anchorage, then saw off
the end. Hmm, perhaps I could first attach some sacrificial timber
over the rot and fix it to the wall to a provide temporary anchorage.

Dont even startt. Do waht I did. Enormous tub of car body filler
moulded to upright shape...use bit of timeber to bulk it if you must.



Thanks, but I'd like some strength in the post, rather than just
having it look OK


Oh FFS its STRONGER than wood!




It's not the strength of the material that counts, it is the strength of
the connections. I agree, you could mould it round some studding let
into the wood.

On 25/07/2018 10:41, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 09:44:15 UTC+1, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 21:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:

I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A scarf joint would be easiest - just a long straight cut on the
diagonal with a handsaw - match the same angle on the new bit, then glue
up and screw through the face into the joint a couple of times.

If you want a half lap, then as you said - repeated cuts every few mm
with a circular saw, then knock out the waste, and plane/chisel flat.


I'd discounted a scarf joint because it's dependent on the glue and
screws to resist the shear force, whereas if I shim the ends of the lap
joint then I've got half the thickness supporting the load, as well as
the glue and screws.

it is, but you can get plenty of strength from glue & screws if done well.


NT

Agreed; the reason I didn't suggest a scarf joint is that, away from a
work-bench, it would not be so easy to cut the upright neatly and
accurately. Although you could clean up a "rough-cut" with a sanding
disk on an angle grinder.

On 24/07/2018 18:22, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , writes
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

Bit of care with a decent handsaw? 3" with a jigsaw is tricky.

I would strengthen by screwing on some 25x50mm folded galvanised steel
(because I have some:-) but 1"x2" angle would do. Use two lengths per join.

Alternatively the agricultural approach... butt join and then strengthen
by nailing on 3"x2" either side:-)

Ha Ha! Good point.

On 24/07/2018 20:48, Rod Speed wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , writes
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap
joint in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to
butt join the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side
- at a guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a
bit of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of
suitable steel plates.

Bit of care with a decent handsaw? 3" with a jigsaw is tricky.

I would strengthen by screwing on some 25x50mm folded galvanised steel
(because I have some:-) but 1"x2" angle would do. Use two lengths per
join.

Alternatively the agricultural approach... butt join and then
strengthen by nailing on 3"x2" either side:-)

Makes more sense to replace it entirely and use an acrow prop to keep
the roof up while replacing it.

Fair point, provided there is not too much disruption or other carpentry
required. Devil in the details, as ever.

"newshound" wrote in message
...
On 24/07/2018 20:48, Rod Speed wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message ,
writes
I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

Bit of care with a decent handsaw? 3" with a jigsaw is tricky.

I would strengthen by screwing on some 25x50mm folded galvanised steel
(because I have some:-) but 1"x2" angle would do. Use two lengths per
join.

Alternatively the agricultural approach... butt join and then strengthen
by nailing on 3"x2" either side:-)

Makes more sense to replace it entirely and use an acrow prop to keep
the roof up while replacing it.

Fair point, provided there is not too much disruption or other carpentry
required. Devil in the details, as ever.

Yeah, I guess the external cladding could well be nailed to it and it might
well be quite a bit of effort to get that off and back on the new one.

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 22:29:36 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 25/07/2018 10:41, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 09:44:15 UTC+1, wrote:
On 24/07/2018 21:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 15:15, wrote:

I have a large shed with 6" x 3" timber uprights resting on a stub
block wall. The bottom 2-3 feet of the posts is rotten so I want to
splice-in some new timber. I can't think how to cut a decent lap joint
in the bottom end of the remaining upright so I'm tempted to butt join
the timber and add steel plates (fish plates?) on each side - at a
guess these would be around 150 wide 450 long and a few mm thick.

Suggestions welcomed for how to cut a lap joint on the bottom of a bit
of timber that's waggling in the breeze, or for a source of suitable
steel plates.

A scarf joint would be easiest - just a long straight cut on the
diagonal with a handsaw - match the same angle on the new bit, then glue
up and screw through the face into the joint a couple of times.

If you want a half lap, then as you said - repeated cuts every few mm
with a circular saw, then knock out the waste, and plane/chisel flat.


I'd discounted a scarf joint because it's dependent on the glue and
screws to resist the shear force, whereas if I shim the ends of the lap
joint then I've got half the thickness supporting the load, as well as
the glue and screws.

it is, but you can get plenty of strength from glue & screws if done well.


NT

Agreed; the reason I didn't suggest a scarf joint is that, away from a
work-bench, it would not be so easy to cut the upright neatly and
accurately. Although you could clean up a "rough-cut" with a sanding
disk on an angle grinder.

the existing upright could be doe with a handheld circular. Scribe the position of the cut ends onto fresh wood & cut with a mitre saw.


NT