The thermostat on ours appears to have failed. I could hear the
radiator "simmering" during the night which it's never done
before.

Before I order a replacement, is there any likelyhood of
repairing/replacing the thermostat? I'm assuming of course that
it does actually have one.

It has no controls other than an on/off switch

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jgtp3raaxQotvtZA8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/86S83UZ1FjHpGsLP9

Tim
--

Tim+ posted
The thermostat on ours appears to have failed. I could hear the
radiator "simmering" during the night which it's never done
before.

Before I order a replacement, is there any likelyhood of
repairing/replacing the thermostat? I'm assuming of course that
it does actually have one.

It has no controls other than an on/off switch

Looks much the same as ours. No thermostat, it's just running at full
power all the time it's on. Since the power is so low (400W?) the heat
is dissipated from the radiator before it can get too hot.

They are typically filled with water when installed. Could be yours has
leaked, evaporated or limescaled up to cause the hissing.

--
Jack

Handsome Jack Wrote in message:
Tim+ posted
The thermostat on ours appears to have failed. I could hear the
radiator "simmering" during the night which it's never done
before.

Before I order a replacement, is there any likelyhood of
repairing/replacing the thermostat? I'm assuming of course that
it does actually have one.

It has no controls other than an on/off switch

Looks much the same as ours. No thermostat, it's just running at full
power all the time it's on. Since the power is so low (400W?) the heat
is dissipated from the radiator before it can get too hot.

They are typically filled with water when installed. Could be yours has
leaked, evaporated or limescaled up to cause the hissing.


We'll ours is normally on all the time but it felt much hotter
than usual in the middle of the night. That combined with the
gentle simmering noises made me think that it is normally limited
by a stat. I could be wrong though.

I'll strip the covers off and look inside.

Tim
--

On Saturday, 21 July 2018 11:03:14 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
Handsome Jack Wrote in message:
Tim+ posted

The thermostat on ours appears to have failed. I could hear the
radiator "simmering" during the night which it's never done
before.

Before I order a replacement, is there any likelyhood of
repairing/replacing the thermostat? I'm assuming of course that
it does actually have one.

It has no controls other than an on/off switch

Looks much the same as ours. No thermostat, it's just running at full
power all the time it's on. Since the power is so low (400W?) the heat
is dissipated from the radiator before it can get too hot.

They are typically filled with water when installed. Could be yours has
leaked, evaporated or limescaled up to cause the hissing.


We'll ours is normally on all the time but it felt much hotter
than usual in the middle of the night. That combined with the
gentle simmering noises made me think that it is normally limited
by a stat. I could be wrong though.

I'll strip the covers off and look inside.

Tim

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go through the water as well as the element. Not unusual. If it's not on an RCD that's the most likely explanation. If it is on an RCD the problem is something else, unless the RCD is faulty.


NT

posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?


--
Jack

On 21/07/2018 14:31, Handsome Jack wrote:
posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows
higher power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current
go through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?


Yes

--
Adam

On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.


NT

On 21/07/2018 22:46, wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.




--
Adam

ARW wrote:

wrote:

Handsome Jack wrote:

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it
has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current
increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

This test shows 1 metre of nice clean tap water in 15mm plastic pipe has
a resistance of 180kΩ, so would only pass 1mA or so at 230V ...

https://youtu.be/MF9DCNkaE8I

On 22/07/2018 20:14, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

wrote:

Handsome Jack wrote:

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it
has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of
current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

This test shows 1 metre of nice clean tap water in 15mm plastic pipe has
a resistance of 180kΩ, so would only pass 1mA or so at 230V ...

https://youtu.be/MF9DCNkaE8I

And the magnesium oxide?

--
Adam

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:58:38 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 21/07/2018 22:46, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

I see you're not familiar with electrode heaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s


NT

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 20:14:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it
has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current
increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

This test shows 1 metre of nice clean tap water in 15mm plastic pipe has
a resistance of 180kΩ, so would only pass 1mA or so at 230V ...

https://youtu.be/MF9DCNkaE8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s


NT

ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

This test shows 1 metre of nice clean tap water in 15mm plastic pipe
has a resistance of 180kΩ, so would only pass 1mA or so at 230V ...

https://youtu.be/MF9DCNkaE8I

And the magnesium oxide?

Given that we know a failed element in a dry environment can leak at
least 30mA, one in a wet environment is not very likely to fare better ...

wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s

Try it in an earthed metal mug?

On Sunday, 22 July 2018 22:05:34 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s

Try it in an earthed metal mug?

the honour of that experiment is all yours...


NT

On 22/07/2018 21:43, wrote:
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:58:38 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 21/07/2018 22:46, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

I see you're not familiar with electrode heaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s


Do two pronged plugs have an earth?




--
Adam

ARW wrote:

Do two pronged plugs have an earth?

French ones do ...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/E_plug_and_socket.png/1024px-E_plug_and_socket.png

.... because the earth prong is part of the socket :-)

On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 21:50:08 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 22/07/2018 21:43, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:58:38 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 21/07/2018 22:46, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

I see you're not familiar with electrode heaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s


Do two pronged plugs have an earth?

No. Nor were they polarised in most cases in the uk. So the water sits at 120v with plenty of current delivery ability.


NT

In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 22/07/2018 21:43, wrote:
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:58:38 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 21/07/2018 22:46, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

I see you're not familiar with electrode heaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s


Do two pronged plugs have an earth?

Years ago, if they had a metal body the lead was earthed by springly metal
bits around the socket.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
says...

In article ,
ARW wrote:

Do two pronged plugs have an earth?

Years ago, if they had a metal body the lead was earthed by springly metal
bits around the socket.

I've never seen one with a metal body but the Schuko connector
has two spring contacts either side of the two pin plug as
opposed the French/Belgian design which has an earth pin in
the socket.

See types E & F he

https://www.worldstandards.eu/electr...s-and-sockets/

Originally, the two plugs were not mutually compatible,
although type F plugs would fit type E sockets (but no earth
connection) wheras Type E plugs would not fit type F sockets
because they were completely round and were obstructed by the
keyways.

More recently, however, a modified Schuko plug has been
designed which fits either socket and contains an earth socket
to accept the type E earth pin.

They are, in fact, the connectors shown in the pictures which
means that the pictures are not really correct.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_pow..._sockets#/medi
a/File:Schuko_plug_and_socket.png

or: https://tinyurl.com/schuko-plug

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_pow..._sockets#/medi
a/File:French_Plug_CEE_7_6.jpg

or: https://tinyurl.com/french-plug

They are usually moulded plugs but rewireable versions are
available.


--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 22/07/2018 21:43, wrote:
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:58:38 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 21/07/2018 22:46, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

I see you're not familiar with electrode heaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s

So you are saying the OP's towel rad element is one of those?



--
Adam

On 22/07/2018 22:02, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

This test shows 1 metre of nice clean tap water in 15mm plastic pipe
has a resistance of 180kΩ, so would only pass 1mA or so at 230V ...

https://youtu.be/MF9DCNkaE8I

And the magnesium oxide?

Given that we know a failed element in a dry environment can leak at
least 30mA, one in a wet environment is not very likely to fare better ...


Once the element is split the magnesium oxide inside absorbs water and
you have a full LE short.

--
Adam

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:12:42 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 22/07/2018 21:43, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:58:38 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 21/07/2018 22:46, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 21 July 2018 14:34:51 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
tabbypurr posted

elements fail eventually, and they can fail in a way that allows higher
power to pass through. The jacket splits open letting current go
through the water as well as the element. Not unusual.

Doesn't that just short it and blow the fuse?

If the split is right at the live end maybe. If at the neutral end it has little effect. Anywhere inbetween causes varying levels of current increase.

You do talk a lot of ********.

I see you're not familiar with electrode heaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViyccc2t9w&t=1s

So you are saying the OP's towel rad element is one of those?

No, they're only permitted for industrial water heating in this country. When domestic immersion elements split open they become partly electrode heaters. History shows this to be quite safe, and it's a normal part of the life cycle of immersion elements. RCDs are of course changing this, as they trip once the jacket splits.


NT