One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an
issue.)

Brian Reay formulated the question :
Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor which
were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She would like
them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job, at least in a
normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and refill etc a
sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an issue.)

It is pretty much the same process as a none sealed system, except you
fill and top up, via a fill pipe. Get the pressure up to around 1bar,
bleed, refill, bleed refill, until all of the air is out of the system
and the correct pressure showing on the gauge.

On 17/06/2018 19:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Reay formulated the question :
Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed.
She would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly
trivial job, at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how
do you drain and refill etc a sealed system?* (The floor is wooden so
access isn't an issue.)

It is pretty much the same process as a none sealed system, except you
fill and top up, via a fill pipe. Get the pressure up to around 1bar,
bleed, refill, bleed refill, until all of the air is out of the system
and the correct pressure showing on the gauge.

So how do you 'get the pressure up', please?

1 Bar is 15 Psi, AFAIK. I've not noticed a gauge on the system but it
is possible it is there. (It is also possible it isn't a pressurised
system, I've only seen it once or twice and wasn't really looking at it
in detail.)

On Sunday, 17 June 2018 20:13:54 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
On 17/06/2018 19:23, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Reay formulated the question :
Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed.
She would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly
trivial job, at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how
do you drain and refill etc a sealed system?Â* (The floor is wooden so
access isn't an issue.)

It is pretty much the same process as a none sealed system, except you
fill and top up, via a fill pipe. Get the pressure up to around 1bar,
bleed, refill, bleed refill, until all of the air is out of the system
and the correct pressure showing on the gauge.

So how do you 'get the pressure up', please?

1 Bar is 15 Psi, AFAIK. I've not noticed a gauge on the system but it
is possible it is there. (It is also possible it isn't a pressurised
system, I've only seen it once or twice and wasn't really looking at it
in detail.)

usually there are valves under the boiler to refill.


NT

The guage should be on the boiler itself. Ours has to be filled to 1.5 bar. Below it is usually a filling loop - ours is a piece of flex hose with a tap on each end (not sure why 2 as precious house had 1). These connect the incoming mains to the sealed system so open the tap(s) until the guage reaches the desired pressure.

On 17/06/2018 19:02, Brian Reay wrote:
One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an issue.)





See the DIY Wiki http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Sealed_system_FAQ
for an explanation of sealed systems. If it's a sealed system there
should be:
* an expansion vessel about the size of a football
* a filling loop
* a pressure gauge
* a pressure relief valve which spills water through a wall to the
outside world in the event of the pressure rising excessively

[If it's a "system boiler", some of these components - plus the pump -
may actually be inside the boiler casing.]

With regards to capping the pipes under the floor, if you do one pipe at
a time there won't be all that much water spillage. Clean the pipe with
wire wool a couple of centimeters either side of where it is to be cut,
(if it's upstairs where spillage matters) put a foil food dish under the
cut location to catch the spillage, cut the pipe cleanly with a
pipeslice, and have a copper pushfit endstop ready to shove on.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 17/06/2018 22:15, Roger Mills wrote:
On 17/06/2018 19:02, Brian Reay wrote:
One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an
issue.)





See the DIY Wiki http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Sealed_system_FAQ
for an explanation of sealed systems. If it's a sealed system there
should be:
* an expansion vessel about the size of a football
* a filling loop
* a pressure gauge
* a pressure relief valve which spills water through a wall to the
outside world in the event of the pressure rising excessively

[If it's a "system boiler", some of these components - plus the pump -
may actually be inside the boiler casing.]

With regards to capping the pipes under the floor, if you do one pipe at
a time there won't be all that much water spillage. Clean the pipe with
wire wool a couple of centimeters either side of where it is to be cut,
(if it's upstairs where spillage matters) put a foil food dish under the
cut location to catch the spillage, cut the pipe cleanly with a
pipeslice, and have a copper pushfit endstop ready to shove on.

And have a wet and dry vacuum cleaner to hand (in wet mode) for when
whatever container you use is about to overflow.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 17/06/2018 22:26, newshound wrote:
On 17/06/2018 22:15, Roger Mills wrote:
On 17/06/2018 19:02, Brian Reay wrote:
One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an
issue.)





See the DIY Wiki http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Sealed_system_FAQ
for an explanation of sealed systems. If it's a sealed system there
should be:
* an expansion vessel about the size of a football
* a filling loop
* a pressure gauge
* a pressure relief valve which spills water through a wall to the
outside world in the event of the pressure rising excessively

[If it's a "system boiler", some of these components - plus the pump -
may actually be inside the boiler casing.]

With regards to capping the pipes under the floor, if you do one pipe
at a time there won't be all that much water spillage. Clean the pipe
with wire wool a couple of centimeters either side of where it is to
be cut, (if it's upstairs where spillage matters) put a foil food dish
under the cut location to catch the spillage, cut the pipe cleanly
with a pipeslice, and have a copper pushfit endstop ready to shove on.

And have a wet and dry vacuum cleaner to hand (in wet mode) for when
whatever container you use is about to overflow.

Thank you everyone who has responded.

I will be visiting her later this week and will try to determine if it
is a sealed system and look at the pipes- so far I've only seen photos
and those weren't in context (ie what exactly is underneath/around etc).




--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On 17/06/2018 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 17/06/2018 22:26, newshound wrote:
On 17/06/2018 22:15, Roger Mills wrote:
On 17/06/2018 19:02, Brian Reay wrote:
One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial
job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain
and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an
issue.)





See the DIY Wiki
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Sealed_system_FAQ for an
explanation of sealed systems. If it's a sealed system there should be:
* an expansion vessel about the size of a football
* a filling loop
* a pressure gauge
* a pressure relief valve which spills water through a wall to the
outside world in the event of the pressure rising excessively

[If it's a "system boiler", some of these components - plus the pump
- may actually be inside the boiler casing.]

With regards to capping the pipes under the floor, if you do one pipe
at a time there won't be all that much water spillage. Clean the pipe
with wire wool a couple of centimeters either side of where it is to
be cut, (if it's upstairs where spillage matters) put a foil food
dish under the cut location to catch the spillage, cut the pipe
cleanly with a pipeslice, and have a copper pushfit endstop ready to
shove on.

And have a wet and dry vacuum cleaner to hand (in wet mode) for when
whatever container you use is about to overflow.

Thank you everyone who has responded.

I will be visiting her later this week and will try to determine if it
is a sealed system and look at the pipes- so far I've only seen photos
and those weren't in context (ie what exactly is underneath/around etc).

Keep in mind that there are some boilers (some WB combi models for
example) that have the filling loop built in - you need to use a key
supplied with the boiler to get it to fill.

On other like many Vaillant ones the pressure gauge is electronic and
shown as a bar graph style display on the boiler's LCD.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an
issue.)

Sealed systems are actually more convenient to work on. Main reason being
less prone to air locking when re-filling, and no pumping over problems.
Meaning you can have pretty well any circulation speed you want. So
generally much easier to bleed after doing work.

You'll have to find the filling point. The hose which goes between the
filling point and the mains cold water supply may be missing - some remove
it. And I've seen some installations where this hasn't been made easy.
Other than that you can treat things much like an open vent type.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/06/2018 10:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
One of my daughters has recently bought a house which I suspect has a
'sealed' CH system. (I say suspect as, while I've briefly looked at it,
I didn't examine the CH system in detail but there was a 'lump' in the
pipework which I didn't recognise.


She has removed a radiator to decorate behind it etc (having seen me do
it before and referring to Youtube) but I'm curious about replacing it.
In a normal system, the header tank simply tops up the water but (as I
understand it) sealed systems don't have header tanks.

Also, a previous owner has left some capped pipes proud of the floor
which were previously hidden by built in wardrobes she has removed. She
would like them recapped under the floor. Normally a fairly trivial job,
at least in a normal (header tank) system. However, how do you drain and
refill etc a sealed system? (The floor is wooden so access isn't an
issue.)

Sealed systems are actually more convenient to work on. Main reason being
less prone to air locking when re-filling, and no pumping over problems.
Meaning you can have pretty well any circulation speed you want. So
generally much easier to bleed after doing work.

You'll have to find the filling point. The hose which goes between the
filling point and the mains cold water supply may be missing - some remove
it. And I've seen some installations where this hasn't been made easy.
Other than that you can treat things much like an open vent type.

One thing is to try not to overpressurise it. There will be a pressure
relief valve set at about 3.5 bar so nothing dangerous will happen. But
once this valve has lifted, they sometimes never seat properly again, so
you always have a slow leak and loss of pressure. Apart from being a
PITA to have to keep topping up, every time you do so you introduce some
dissolved oxygen and over a long enough period you will deplete the
corrosion inhibitor. This is bad news (particularly with combis) because
oxidation products block up their secondary heat exchanger, and you
won't get good hot water flow.

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